Subject: SMML08/02/99VOL450 Date: Tue, 09 Feb 1999 00:10:52 +1100 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: WW1 Subchaser 2: Modern RN Colours 3: Re: Propellor Guards 4: Re: HMS Suffolk 5: NEW RN CARRIERS 6: Re: HMS Suffolk articles 7: Re: ARIZONA colors 8: Re: The Classic Model HMS Lion 9: Re: Zara Kit 10: Royal Navy Paints -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: Re: 1/35 CIWS build article 2: The need to know! 3: Warship Update 4: 1/700 HMS Invincible -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "James M. Pasquill, II" Subject: Re: WW1 Subchaser >> The USCG operated four WW1 110' subchasers as WPC's (patrol craft) and one as a WIX (unclassified miscellaneous) during WW2. The WPC units were the "Boone", ex SC-229; "Blaze", ex SC-231; "Bowstring", ex SC-238 and "Belleville", ex SC-258. The WIX was "Bonneville", ex SC-438. Scheina's "U.S. Coast Guard Cutters and Craft of WW2" shows a port bow picture of the "Belleville" and a port side picture of the "Bonneville". The WPC's were armed with one 3"/23 single bow gun, two .30 cal machine guns, two Mousetraps and two D/C tracks. The WIX was armed with one 1-pounder bow gun and one 20 mm oerlikon in 1942. A second 20 mm, two Mousetraps and two D/C tracks were added in 1943. I think these would be interesting conversions for the Glencoe kit, when I find a few more.... << I too wish to convert a Glencoe subchaser to USCG service. Do any sources indicate that this class of craft was used by the USCG or for that matter the USN against rum-running operations in the twenties. Did any of these craft frequent New England waters? I'd be very interested in learning whatever you find out about these craft. I will post several sources of these kits in the next couple of days. I have come across a half dozen web hobby shops that list them ranging in price from $12 to $18 US. Actually there is one up for auction right now on Yahoo auctions. Jim -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Peter & Sally Sketchley" Subject: Modern RN Colours Hi all, This is a debut posting so be gentle. Could someone suggest the best available paint (ie Humbrol, Revell etc) which is the nearest match to modern RN Grey. I am about to build the Revell "Invincible" as she is today, as a waterline model. If any of you Gentlemen (or Ladies) know of any pitfalls I should be aware of I would appreciate your advice. Best Regards to ALL. Peter & Sally Sketchley Duxford Cambridge, UK -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "johnston" Subject: Re: Propellor Guards Hi guys, I might be totally wrong but my experience (limited that is) would suggest that the main reason is to prevent ropes from falling into the screws path and getting caught up when manoevering which usually happens at berthing and is accompanied with rope handling, mooring etc. Whilst it does not in itself prevent the rope from going in it gives the crew a bit of grace to get the offending hawser aboard by keeping it from directly dropping into the danger area when draped over the side. The wood protector is sometimes there to go easy on other vessels when alongside. Sometimes but rarely the guard actually protects the screws themselves where blades actually are beyond the side of the ship at there tips. Catch you Raynor J. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: "chenyangzhang" Subject: Re: HMS Suffolk Man o' War No. 1 is actually very good on the Suffolk. The colour centre spread shows the cruiser in 1942 and deck plans for her are also listed. Several photos of the various camoflage schemes are included and a list of modifications. Its very difficult to get hold of though. Chris Langtree -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: John Burch Subject: NEW RN CARRIERS As a Carrier enthusiast I had been about to ask the SMML members if anyone had seen any drawings or artist's concepts of the projected RN Carriers, when I came across an artist's impression, myself, in the 1 Feb. '99 issue of Aviation Week. I then checked out the Aviation Week web site to see if the artist's impression was posted there, but didn't find it, so I thought I would provide a text description back to the List for anyone else interested in the subject. If anyone knows of a site with an artist's impression, perhaps they can point us to it. The artist's impression shows a flight deck, which in plan view is very reminiscent of USN practice, such as FORRESTAL or NIMITZ; however, a ski jump ramp is located on the port side, forward, similar to HERMES. The forward starboard area of the flight deck provides a wide aircraft parking area. The landing area features a conventional angled deck arrangement (three wires can been seen). Elevator (Lift) arrangement does not show-up well (probably intentionally) but could be as follows: one deck edge forward of the island, and two deck edge aft of the island, and one deck edge port side, aft. The island is located on the starboard side and is centered at the fore/aft midpoint. The island is rectangular in plan and appears to be seven or eight times as long as it is wide. The bridge structure looks like INVINCIBLE. Aft of the bridge there are two radar masts and two stacks in the same arrangement as INVINCIBLE, although here the stacks are square, with a fairing, aft (like KRIVAK). No PRI-FLI is shown. The Aviation Week article in which this artist's impression appears makes clear that NONE of the details I have described above are established, and, in fact, everything is subject to analysis and trade-offs. A study phase by three competitors is to be followed by a design phase in 2003. The first ship is to be in-service in 2012. Displacement does seem to be set at not more than 40,000 tons, however, which would be slightly less than the ARK ROYAL (post World War II), or intermediate between the USN 27C ESSEX and MIDWAY classes. A crew size of 1200 is projected with 600 in the ship's company, and the other 600 Air Group personnel. Selection of an AEW aircraft appears to be a controlling factor in the design of these ships, with the E-2C Hawkeye mentioned as a contender. The different fighter/strike aircraft which could be selected could result in major differences in carrier design (but subject to limitations imposed by the AEW A/C). Selection of the F/A-18E/F would result in a conventional carrier (as described, but without the ski jump, and incorporating catapults). The Joint Strike Fighter (JSF) would operate in short take-off /vertical landing mode (using ski jump, but not using arresting gear). The "marinized" Eurofighter would operate in short take-off but assisted recovery (STOBAR) mode (ski ramp and arresting gear as in the artist's impression, which shows a Eurofighter in flight and several on deck). Several helicopters will be carried, but were not identified or discussed in the article (the artist's impression shows two Merlins). A "bending deck" concept was discussed, whereby the ski jump might be made to elevate or retract, using carbon fiber technology. An Air Group of 50 A/C is desired. Propulsion is implied to be gas turbine, and to avoid the need for boilers for a steam catapult, the RN is looking to take advantage of USN work on electromagnetic catapults for its next generation of carriers. I look forward to following the saga of the RN carriers, and hope that anyone else who comes across any details shares them with us. John Burch Gaithersburg, MD, USA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: crofoot@bfm.org (Crofoot, Christopher) Subject: Re: HMS Suffolk articles I too, have the Suffolk on it's way to me...and if any body happens to have access to Ian Fleming's Airfix Magazine June 1978 article on the County class cruisers I'd very much like to obtain a photocopy or perhaps even borrow it. Thanks for the tip, Robert L. Chris (small town library so I got no references) Crofoot -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: John Snyder Subject: Re: ARIZONA colors As regards the painting at the Memorial, chalk it up to artistic license. She was in Ms.1, Dark Gray (5-D); just remember, Dark Gray was still a purple-blue (just a very dark one). The reason I invited folks to take a look at the color photo of USS DRAYTON on the NavSource page is that she too is in Ms.1, even though your eyes will make you swear she's in Ms.11, Navy Blue (5-N). The tip-off is the Light Gray (5-L) mast top, which was only used with Ms.1 and not with Ms.11. John Snyder Snyder & Short Enterprises The Paint Guys -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: "John H. Werler" <110370.665@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: The Classic Model HMS Lion << I'm reading about Jutland and so I came across the 1/700 Classic models HMS Lion which interested me. I was just wondering if the model is any good. I couldn't find any reviews... Since I'm new to resin would this be a good choice? << Lee, Rob Mackie did an "in-depth" review of the 1/700 Classic Lion for Navis back in August of 97. I haven't been able to find it on the Navis website the last time I looked but I did make a hard copy of it which is three pages long. I don't have a scanner but I could fax or mail a copy to you if you want. Anyway, his review appeared to be fairly favorable except for a problem noted concerning the maximum beam of the model. It apparently measured out at 78.6 ' as opposed to 88.5' indicated in published sources. Steve Wiper apparently answered this issue stating that he was aware of a descrepany with sources but based his kit on Norman Ough plans which he considered accurate. This is all covered in the review itself. Some time after the review I remember seeing further discussion (I believe in SMML) that the problem was eventually traced to the fact that the hull actually had a "tumble-home" where the hull is wider at the waterline than at the deck level. The model has straight hull sides and so does not reflect this. My own observations tend to follow those of Rob Mackie except that I'm probably not as concerned about the beam issue as he. Otherwise, the hull, as with most of Classic's products, appears to be very accurate and nicely done with an extremely "busy" deck containing a high density of deck appurtenances and fittings. The superstructure is also fairly good except that I have noticed some areas which will require some scratch building - most notably around the after searlight platforms and for an additional platform directly under the fighting top on the tripod mast (for Jutland configuration which is what is indicated as the basis for the model). Also, masts and cranes will need to be fully scratch built. As usual, the instructions are rather scant and other sources will need to be relied upon for much of the detail. I do have the recently issued book "Battlecruisers" by John Roberts which helps. In the back is a beautiful 1/250 plan sheet of Queen Mary in 1913 which will help for some of the generic details; although I understand that the Queen Mary did have some basic differences from her two near sister ships in Lion and Princes Royal. In summary, I'm very pleased with the kit and plan to spend a concentrated effort on her. I would definitely recommend it unless the beam issue is a major concern to you. I also plan to get WEM's photoetch for WWI battleships as the kit does not include any. It's interesting that my very first reisen ship kit that I purchased was a 1/700 WWI HMS Lion put out by Classic back in 1993? The present kit is a totally new release and is unbelievably superior in every way. The original release did not even have a recessed after boat deck behind the after funnel. It was entirely flat! Steve has definitely improved his product over the last years. Hope this helps. I also hope to see more 1/700 WWI subjects in the future. I just purchased a 1/700 SMS Baden which is a beautiful kit. I just hope my wallet can keep pace with the new suff coming out. Great! John Werler -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: cwjerden Subject: Re: Zara Kit To the person who asked about the Tauro Zara kit. I have one, Squadron gave me a price too good to pass up. All I can give is a "In the Box" reveiw, as I have not started mine. The box is impresive in size, but don't count on the box art as a paint guide. Thats ok, as the Zara carried no Camo paint. My kit is flash free with only one sink mark. No injector pin marks are to be seen, all in all a nicely produced kit. Mine even came with a length of golden anchor chain. The parts come in several plastic bags to keep things together and nice. The instructions appear to be fine for any skill level modeler. The hull is split into upper and lower parts, allowing for full hull, or waterline display. The lower part of the hull is molded in a VERY bright red, although my info says the Zara was black below the waterline. I did not get a kit with PE parts. A freind with a hobby shop said the PE was railings only. They are reported to be of fine scale but with individual sanctions. These are no fun if your new to PE. I plan to go with Gold Medel PE myself. The hatch ways are represented with an odd rasied line detail. I will replace them with PE but you might get away with filling the "mold" with super or white glue. Any thoughts here from the list? So, would I recomend this kit, yes! It's a nice looking kit in the box and should look great on the shelf. Hope this helps, and next time leave a name, we don't bite. Charles J. (Of Ft.Worth Texas, where it was Sunny and 78 today!) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: "Pletscher-Lenz-Schneider" Subject: Royal Navy Paints I want to build the HiMold model of HMS DEVONSHIRE D 02. The color guide is suggesting PC 14 for the over-all paint. Yet I don't know how close this match is, and I can't get this color here. Can anyone provide a propper mix for the color of RN ships in the 1960s on the base of Revell, Humbrol or Testor paints? Was it a neutral gray or had it a greenish or blueish hue? What color were the steel decks? Was it really green? Thanks in advance. Falök Pletscher -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: 1/35 CIWS build article For those of you who care I have written an article with lots of photos about my building the test shot kit of the Close In Weapon System due in around mid Feb. This is not a review (I'll leave that to others), but a blow by blow description of the construction of the model. If you're interested in this kit, check out the Warship web site. http://warship.simplenet.com/CIWS.htm Email me and let me know if you want one and I'll notify you as soon as they arrive. Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. http://www.okclive.com/flagship/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "LAMKEEL" Subject: The need to know! Hi Y'all (note the psudo American accent). Over the last few days I have had a number of enquiries from your fellow "smellies" asking about those dreaded Flower Class whatsits, and what drawings are available. I have just a couple to complete, but most are finished. Drawn at 1/8" = 1 Ft. What ships and fittings are depicted ? Drg. No. Subject. L/S/111/A-D Honeysuckle, Hydrangea and Jasmine of 1940. L/S/112/A-E Potentilla, February 1942. L/S/113/A-F Burnet, Forest Hill and Charlock, Modified Flowers of late 1943. L/S/115 Construction of masts and yards - 1940 on. L/S/116 Hinged watertight doors, Mecans patent, Merchant standard type G of 1940-44. L/S/117 Construction of hatches and skylights. L/S/118 Depth charge arrangements. (Part drawn). L/S/119 The propeller. L/S/120/A-B Machinery arrangements for ships with water tube boilers 1940-41. L/S/121 Detail of extension to fox'l deck, proposed "LL" influence M/S and A/S and M/S davits. L/S/122 Hull lines, original short fox'l design including shell expansion. L/S/123 Hull lines, long fox'l design with improved sheer, including shell expansion. L/S/124 Begonia, March 1941. L/S/125 Views of some variations. (being reviewed). L/S/126 Bridge variations in the class. (Not drawn to scale). L/S/127 Camellia, June 1940. L/S/128/A-E Anchusa, March 1941. L/S/129 Rhododendron, October 1940. L/S/130/A-C Alisma, February 1941 plus modification of following refits. L/S/131/A-B Zinnia, March 1941. L/S/132 Canadian Wetaskiwin, December 1940. (More detail to add). L/S/133 Genista, December 1940. Rigging and docking plans only. L/S/134 Nasturtium, September 1940. Profile and Fox'l deck only. L/S/135 Fleur de Lys, August 1940. Detailed docking plan. I plan to add H.M.N.Z.S Arabis and redraw Buttercup as modified for minesweeping. Currently I am drawing the Hedgehog ahead throwing A/S weapon. If you are in the U.K. Give me a call on 01525 754845, (Ampthill, Bedford) or E-mail. I also sell two plans catalogues. £4:00 each. (£5:00 overseas). Warships and Naval Weapons! Yours "aye". John Lambert -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "Rob Mackie" Subject: Warship Update Today's Warship (http://simplenet.com) update includes the following new items: Pic-of-the-week: USS Indianapolis CA-35 Portland class heavy cruiser (21 beautiful photos from the US National Archives) Preview of Iron Shipwright 1:350 KM Prinz Eugen Review of Viking Models 1:350 Seawolf Nuclear Attack Submarine underway model 1/96 USS Atlanta (1884) on display at Smithsonian: a photo study Updated New Releases and Developments in 1250 Scale Updated Thoroughbred Models Catalog Rob Mackie Warship http://warship.simpelent.com Bring a Friend -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: "Caroline Carter" Subject: 1/700 HMS Invincible This month, on the 15th Feb. I believe, http://www.navismagazine.com will have a build feature on the 1/700 HMS Invincibles ... whether you bought the Dragon/Revell kit or the WEM kit, this should be an invaluable article if it's up to Paolo Pizzi's usual standards. I have updated my webpages.... DOCKYARD MATEYS 700 updated with new pics, FLIGHTDECK 400 (NEW), FLIGHTDECK 500 (NEW), FLIGHTDECK 350 updated with new pics. Please check 'em out. More to come later this week! Cheers from a snowy Herefordshire! Caroline Carter, Business Manager, White Ensign Models, http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/white.ensign.models -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume