Subject: SMML09/02/99VOL451 Date: Tue, 09 Feb 1999 23:55:22 +1100 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Aurora pictures 2: Re: Modern RN Paint colours 3: Re: Stealth design a/c carriers 4: Re: Propellor guards 5: Re: RN Books 6: Re: the Classic Warships 1/700 Lion 7: Re: RN Green?? Enquiry 8: Irish Naval Service/Icelanding Coast Guard Models? 9: Re: RN Colours 10: HrMs Friesland 11: Enterprise Book 12: Classic 1/700 Arizona 13: Glencoe USS Oregon instructions 14: Atlas Editions warning 15: Re: HMS Invicible colours 16: Representative ship of each fighting nation 17: Re: USS Arizona Colors 18: Techmod-innex models 19: Naval aircraft on USS Hornet, in addition to B-25s? 20: Re: HMS Suffolk articles -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: Build Articles for International Maritime Modeling 2: Announcement: IJN Paint Chips -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: robin Subject: Aurora pictures Hi All, Does anyone know of any current color photos of the russian cruiser Aurora? I have the Heller model of her & am doing research on the ship. as far as I know she is still afloat in St Petersburg, (unless they have scrapped her because of her communist past) I have visited the russian navy site of Vladimir Kopylov a while ago & got all the pics of the ships I need (which is lucky as I cannot enter this site anymore, comes up with forbidden) but I was wondering if anybody knows of any more of the cruiser. BTW - if anyone wants any of the pics from the site i mentioned, I think I still have them , just email - I saved most of the early battleships & maybe a few early cruisers too. Cheers & 73's for now, ordrazz Web Page: http://www.ne.com.au/~ordrazz/frames.html -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Caroline Carter" Subject: Re: Modern RN Paint colours Hi Pete We have actual pots of paint from REAL modern RN ships (don't ask!!)... we have done the following matches for Humbrol paints.. the following extract is directly from our colour plan and profile of HMS Invincible 1982 from the WEM 1/700 HMS Invincible kit (still available at 56.15 pounds post free!!) I vill say ziss only vonce.... so cut n keep! (Funny you don't look like a French Resistance leader :-þ : Shane) Light Admiralty Grey (65% 127 + 35% 130): All areas of hull and superstructure, deck fittings and weapons, unless otherwise stated, rigid hulls of inflatable boats Ocean Grey (106): All decks and walkways unless otherwise stated, tarpaulins of 36' workboats. Dark Grey (27): Central section of take-off run, anchor cables. Dark Blue (77): Hull of ships boats above waterline, except dinghies and inflatables. White (34): Tops and decks of ships boats except inflatables, Scot radomes, capstans, bollards, fairleads, hawse holes, liferaft canisters, flight deck markings and surrounds of hull numbers. Ships boats below waterline. Sea Dart missiles (live rounds). Signal Red (74): Hulls of dinghies above waterline, ship's name on hull. Sea Dart missiles (practice rounds, usually mounted when entering & leaving harbour). Signal Blue (25): Aircraft service markings on deck edge (small rectangles, barely visible on the plan view above). Black (33): Funnel caps and interiors, waterline boot topping, tubes of inflatable boats, hull numbers, small vents along hull sides. Obviously, some of this won't apply as some ship's boats are either missing or wrong in the Revell/Dragon kit. NOTES 1. Hull numbers and ship's name were painted out for the duration of the Falklands conflict. 2. The mobile crane and forklift should be painted signal yellow. 3. The motor launches had an orange band around the top of the hull, as shown Some of the Sea Harriers were Medium Sea Grey ( pink/light blue roundels), others Extra Dark Sea Grey overall (red/ blue roundels). Seakings were overall dark blue grey, with olive drab rotors. All aircraft lettering was black. The Dragon/Revell kit also lacks vehicles... inc. the obligatory Land-Rover (Incidentally, HMS Ocean actually carries a Discovery!!) Also, the funnels are significantly too short (although this can be corrected with a few layers of plasticard under the funnels, then carved to shape). If anyone fancies "accurising" the Dragon/Revell kit, we carry plans of HMS Invincible, HMS Ark Royal and HMS Illustrious. E-Mail me off-line for details. We are working on our upgrade set to include correct boats, funnels and deck vehicles (forklifts, tow-trucks etc..) Will keep you posted. We are already offering the etched brass, helos and harriers with a 10.00 pounds saving... lists anybody? Cheers! Caroline Carter, Business Manager, White Ensign Models, U.K. http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/white.ensign.models -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: Stealth design a/c carriers I saw several computer generated illustrations of future aircraft carriers being contemplated by the US Navy. For the most part, the island is gone with the entire area above the hull used as a flight deck. One illustration showed a ski jump on the bow. All the drawings had a definite stealth look to them. The one that really caught my eye was the one really stealth design super carrier. Man this thing looks just like Dart Vaders star destroyer! Flight deck on top and the bridge just aft of the bow dead center. The bow in front of the bridge sloped down for visibility. One awesome looking boat! I don't know if the drawings are still there but I found it on the US Navy official web site. Look under project CVX. Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. http://www.okclive.com/flagship/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: "efoeth" Subject: Re: Propellor guards As far as I know, the propellor guards are used for ships were the propellor will be outside the ships hull (seen from above), and to protect them while alongside a quay, and prevent them being slammed into that quay. These ships are mainly naval ships, which usually have large propellors, sometimes combined with a slim stern (like Bismarck ( I just had to mention my favourite ship)). Damage to the propellors is VERY costly, as the ship needs to be docked, the propellor and the propellor axis removed, (Sometimes also the rudder needs to be removed), propellor replaced, all parts need to be reinserted, and the propelloraxis should be realligned. Normal docking fee can be $50,000 easily, and propellors are (especially naval types) very expensive. The guard can revent hundreds of thousands of dollars of damages. In wartime, you probably loose your ship for a few days, and if you don't have a spare propellor on board, weeks (Damaged propellors are not exactly ideal for cavitation inception). All this can be prevented by a stupid piece of steel. As for rope safety, I think this is highly unlikely, as: a) crew need to be properly trained, and making these guards is not the way. Also, in heavy weather, if these guards hit the water, the ship will experience a large increased resistance. That's a big sacrifice for clumsy crews, without the certaincy that ropes won't end up in the propellor anyway. b) ropes will still be drawn into the propellor, if it is rotating, with or without the guards. As why they are sometimes made of wood: I think wood can be easily replaced when damaged. Evert-Jan Foeth -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: drwells@hogpa.ho.att.com (David R Wells) Subject: Re: RN Books >> (Someday I'd like to convert a Repulse into HMS Courageous/Glorious as Large Light Cruisers. Talk about taking the battlecruiser idea to absurdity...) << Nah. Taking the battlecruiser idea to absurdity was Fisher's proposal for HMS Incomparable. For those not familiar, she would have been kind of a giant, single-funnelled Repulse, over 1000 feet long with six 20" guns. Yes, my model is still "on hold", awaiting the 1/600 scale 20"/L45 brass gun barrels that a friend promised to make for me. She's done up to the first superstructure level, with the main turrets in place. Maybe when I finally do call up Caroline, I'll have to order up two Iron Duke photoetch sets..... David R. Wells Keeper of the List of Silly British Battlecruiser Names..... "There seems to be something wrong | David R. Wells with our bloody ships today" | AT&T Middletown, NJ Adm. D. Beatty, May 31, 1916 | Email: drwells@hogpa.ho.att.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: "Caroline Carter" Subject: Re: the Classic Warships 1/700 Lion Hi! Coo.. I remember the Lion scenario.. in fact it was we at WEM, together with a coupla M.M. researchers, and a keen Aussie that sorted this little lot out. It was incorrectly pointed out that the kit didn't match the (book's) stated beam..... in fact, Steve Wiper had worked from Ough's deck plan, but had not worked in the fact that she had a squidgen of tumblehome... only visible from the sectional lines and not from the deckplan.. the reviewers, as usual, got out their measures, and measured across the deck... of course it appeared that the ship was too narrow by 11%, yet the deck plan matched the kit's deck plan absolutely.. so kudos to Steve on this score... however, what the reviewers, I suspect, weren't aware of, was that the quoted breadth was waterlinen not width at deck level... and of course Steve failed to incorporate that slight tumblehome (slap-on-the wrist to Steve...). So, if you want to REALLY accurise this kit, get the David Macgregor plans of Lion, plasticard on the base with a correctly carved waterline profile, and smooth a layer of filler.. re shape etc.. meself? Naa I wouldn't bother.. as has been said before, it looks great built up and that's the main thing IM (not so!) HO.... Best Regards, Caroline Carter, Business Manager, White Ensign Models, http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/white.ensign.models -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: "Caroline Carter" Subject: Re: RN Green?? Enquiry Hi Falk Re your search for the colours of RN ships of the 60s, this is a colour I have traipsed over on more than a few occasions.. the last time I inspected it for myself was on the Rothesay Class frigate HMS Plymouth, preserved at the "Historic Warships of Birkenhead"... there is also a pretty cool-looking WW2 U-Boat on display (U-534) and a post-war O Class sub, HMS Onyx.. and the old Channel Lightship.. if you're in the area, give em a look! As we have done a Leander Class frigate, HMS Apollo, as a kit, we needed a match... so, Peter Hall, having nicked a paint sample from an early Tribal Class frigate (Zulu), in anticipation of various modelling adventures (sorry Peter!), matched it for us with Humbrol paints.. as follows: Deck Green (80% 88 + 20% 33) It was an anti-skid compound and I think was used up until the Falklands War...everything became much greyer at that time.. Cheers! Caroline Carter, Business Manager, White Ensign Models, http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/white.ensign.models -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: Felix Bustelo Subject: Irish Naval Service/Icelanding Coast Guard Models? Hi again, I received an email on my webmaster account with the following question: "Do you know of any companies producing kits of Irish Naval Service vessels, or ships of the Icelandic Coast Guard?" Off the top of my head, I can't think of any, so I am asking for help from my fellow SMMLers. Perhaps ships from other nations were sold/leased to these services and the gentleman with the question could buy these kits and convert them? Any help would be appreciated. Felix -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: "Graham Walker" Subject: Re: RN Colours Try Humbrol 64, very close, as for the Revel kit raised deck lines, funnels to short and that was only after a quick look at the kit before I put it away until WEM brings out their conversion parts. Hey Caroline, Dave WHEN???? you've got an order here as I want to model Ark as she will be:):):):) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: Pieter Cornelissen Subject: HrMs Friesland I've started building Artitec's Friesland and I'm thinking about railing her. The few photographs I have seem to show British type railing, but I'm not really sure. Does anyone know the type of railing the Dutch navy used in the '50's and 60's? Pieter Cornelissen Delft, The Netherlands Where one centimeter of snow equals 800 km of traffic jam (EVIL GRIN) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: McKellar Subject: Enterprise Book Hi all, I've just returned from San Diego where I was delayed 6 hours and saw nothing of a 1/48 scale Midway - always in the wrong place at the right time it seems. I sent an order to the Enterprise Assoc (see SMML about three weeks ago) and today received two copies of the Enterprise Detail & Scale book and a nice mug I wanted (Seems appropriate to drink coffee from an Enterprise mug while working on....). I'd say if you want a copy - get it now bucause they won't last forever..... I'll let my extra copy go if anyone wants it (cost was about $12.50 plus shipping). Mark -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: "russell/joyce powell" Subject: Classic 1/700 Arizona Dear fellow enthusiasts, Might I please have your opinions, views, of the quality of Classic's 1/700 Arizona. My primary concern is that proportions, lines, etc. be accurate. Thank you for your opinions, advice, and wisdom? It is going to be a great day for tennis in Okinawa. Russell powell -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: "scola" Subject: Glencoe USS Oregon instructions HELP!!! I lost the instructions for the Glencoe USS Oregon. Does anyone have their address, fax or phone number. I couldnot find it on any web site. Thanks For Help. Rich Scola @ Gateway.net -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: CBNJBB62@aol.com Subject: Atlas Editions warning Dear Fellow SMMLers: I have recently come across something you should know about. There is a company called ATLAS EDITIONS selling warship cards. Now I signed up in Sept, 1998 and just for$6.99 you get 5 things: 1. A video from the history channel Great ships: Aircraft carrier 2 A book binder for the cards 3 12 category dividers 4 10 warships cards to start with 5 User's guide. Then you receive 10 more cards these are 7-1/4 by 9 3/4 and a metal replica of a ship. Then you get 30 more cards by this time my bill went from $6.99 to $11.27 with the next 30 cards I got charged for $2.99 that I didn't pay. In the next set I recieved a bill for 23.55 plus they billed me for the entire previous tolling making it for $35.65. These bills were paided in full. I didn't short change them in any way at all. So all I have to say is beware of it. And I have canceled the program after paying my final bill. They are ATLAS EDITIONS of PO box 16573 Columbus Ohio,43216 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: CBNJBB62@aol.com Subject: Re: HMS Invicible colours I have a suggestion about the Invincible. She is in a close match to USN Polly S 5-P Pale Gray. Since the USN and RN are NATO MEMBERS they have similar. A friend of mine who goes to the fleet weeks in NYC has sent me pictures of a Raleigh Burke and a Type 42 Destroyer moored along side each other and they just painted the same way. Craig Bennett -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: SJantscher@aol.com Subject: Representative ship of each fighting nation I thought it might be fun to try and pick a "most representive" , or "most famous" ship from each nation's navy that fought in the Second World War. What comes to mind first when one thinks of the German fleet? Besides hordes of u-boats, the Bismark. The Yamato for Japan, Hood for England? I'm having a hard time picking out that "most famous" US ship. Perhaps the Enterprise? What do you think? Steve Jantscher Okay I'll start the ball rolling: Australia: HMAS Sydney New Zealand: HMNZS Achilles (HMNZS as of 1941) Britain: HMS Warspite, HMS Hood or HMS King George V USA: USS Washington, USS Enterprise, USS Missouri Canada: HMCS Haida Germany: Bismarck or Scharnhorst Italy: R.N Vitterio Veneto Japan: IJN Yamato with the Kongos not far behind Shane: 20C & raining -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: Burl Burlingame / Pacific Monograph Subject: Re: USS Arizona Colors >> About the Arizona colors, back in 1991 I visited the Arizona Memorial and they had a color painting of the Arizona at the time of Pearl Harbor and she is blue instead of dark gray. Could there have been a shortage of dark gray? << That particular painting is inaccurate in many respects, and has also faded substantially. Burl Burlingame Pacific Monograph, 1124 Kahili Street, Kailua HI 96734 A historical interpretation company. Visit our web site at http://www.PacificHistory.com/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: "Linda & David Orzel" Subject: Techmod-innex models Dear fellow modelers; subscriber for a while but first time corresponder. I am mainly a collector of 1250 scale warships, WWI and before. However I have a few old Airfix 600 ships that I am redoing. I came across site and model I could not turn down, 1/400 model of my "namesake" submarine Orzel of WWII from a dealer in Poland. Manufacturer is Techmod-innex. Anyone give me any information on the company and the quality of their models? I ordered it but it will be awhile before it arrives. If the model is of good quality I would like to make it a display model for my office. I've seen and use photo etch parts in 600 but don't recall in 400. Are there any? It would seem 350 would clash. Does anyone know color scheme at time of loss? Thanks for the help on all three questions. Dave Orzel -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: VessIrvine@aol.com Subject: Naval aircraft on USS Hornet, in addition to B-25s? I have a resin 1/350 USS Hornet to build. It has a see through hanger deck in which aircraft can be stored or hung from the ceiling. Of course, the flight deck will be populated with B25 Mitchells for the upcoming Tokyo raid. So my question is did the Hornet carry naval squadrons (Wildcat, Devastator, Dauntless) in the hanger deck during the Dolittle raid? They were escorted by another fleet carrier (Enterprise? Yorktown?) which suppled CAP top cover for the task force. So perhaps all naval airplanes were off-loaded from the Hornet. Regards Vess Irvine Denver, Colorado -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: Rick Heinbaugh Subject: Re: HMS Suffolk articles >> I too, have the Suffolk on it's way to me...and if any body happens to have access to Ian Fleming's Airfix Magazine June 1978 article on the County class cruisers I'd very much like to obtain a photocopy or perhaps even borrow it. << Chris, I've got that one. Pass me your snail mail address and I'll send a copy along. Rick -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Felix Bustelo Subject: Build Articles for International Maritime Modeling Hello all, First let me say thanks for Dave & Caroline for listening to 1/600 scale enthusiasts and agreeing to take a stab at 1/600 scale resin parts. But as the lovely Caroline has stated, what we need are some build articles on models in 1/600 scale. So, I am asking anyone who wishes to write one and can provide some photos to go along with it, please send them to me for posting on my website, International Maritime Modeling http://members.tripod.com/~Febus65/imm.htm IMM is the place for modelers that prefer the odd scale kits (like 1/600) and who also enjoy modeling merchant subjects in any scale (after all, there are not as many merchant/liners kits out there as military subjects). I cannot offer you any money for the articles but I you wish to promote modeling in scales like 1/600 and the other "box" scales by showing what can be done with some photo-etch and determination, this is the place. If you wish to contribute, please email me at imm_web_master@yahoo.com Thanks to WEM and thanks to all of you in the SMML. Felix -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: John Snyder Subject: Announcement: IJN Paint Chips OK, IJN fans: The chips are all painted, the pages will be picked up from the printer later today, and we're ready to take orders. Eight chips for $10 + $1.00 postage (domestic). The set includes 4 grays: Sasebo Naval Arsenal, Kure Naval Arsenal, Maizuru Naval Arsenal, Yokosuka Naval Arsenal; 2 greens: dark green "Type 1 camouflage for aircraft carriers", light green "Type 2 camouflage for aircraft carriers"; deck tan (actually a tan paint used in camo patterns on carrier flight decks); and linoleum color. They are based on paint chips from Japanese sources. I'm convinced that there are some other IJN colors to track down out there, and we're continuing to try to do so. If any turn up, we'll revise this set, and provide free chips of the new colors to any holders of the initial 8-chip set. The first 20 (or so) of the RN colours are being matched now, and we still plan to have them out by the end of June. Personally, I think they'll be available before that. John Snyder Snyder & Short Enterprises 9175 Kiefer Blvd. #224 Sacramento CA 95826 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume