Subject: SMML10/02/99VOL452 Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 23:53:51 +1100 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: Representative Ship 2: Re: HORNET'S Aircraft 3: Re: Representative ship of each fighting nation 4: Hull Painting 5: Re: Hornet Aircraft 6: Re: Rep. Ship 7: Re: Aurora colors 8: Re: Hornet air complement 9: Re: USS Hornet airgroup 10: Re: Oregon instructions 11: Glencoe Address 12: Re: Representative ship of each fighting nation 13: Re: Representative Ship of each Fighting Nation 14: Re: Hornet air complement 15: Re: Hornet & B-25s -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: Upcoming titles from WR Press - your input requested 2: Paint Chip Sets 3: APMA meeting this Saturday -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Morley, James (London)" Subject: Re: Representative Ship US: Either USS Washington, or South Dakota (NOT Missouri - too little, too late) although, come to think of it, a raised and rebuilt Pearl Harbour ship might be more fitting. UK: Well, we all want Hood, but let's face it KGV, Warspite, or Nelson/Rodney might be more representative FRANCE: (Shane forgot) Richelieu? GERMANY: Well, I suppose Bismark is obvious...... what about Prinz Eugen? JAPAN: Goes without saying ITALY: I agree, V.V. As an aside......... thinking about it, France and Italy produced some beautiful capital ships that have never been reproduced in 1/350 (and I doubt ever will be). I know Heller does 1/400, but it's not the same (!). What price Richelieu, Strasbourg or Vittorio Veneto??????? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: Les Pickstock (Les Pickstock) Subject: Re: HORNET'S Aircraft I once made the same enquiry on r.m.s. and the the general consensus was that HORNET's airwing was "struck" below decks while the flightdeck was full of B25s. Since this time I have seen a photo showing HORNET's deck with navy aircraft mixed in with the Mitchells. This is conclusive proof that she had her own aircraft onboard. Now all you have to do is figure out how to position 16 B25s so that the first one is level with aft end of the "Island". Les Pickstock "I'd rather have a full bottle in front of me than a full frontal Lobotomy" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: Kevin Wenker Subject: Re: Representative ship of each fighting nation I would suggest the following: Fletcher DD for the US. Germany: the U-Boat England: Hood Japan: Yamato Italy: dinghy Kevin Wenker -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: "John E. Fail" Subject: Hull Painting I am building a 1:96 scale, 42 inch long model of a Coast Guard Cutter I was stationed on many years ago. The hull is resin which I purchased from Scale Shipyard in California. I am ready to start painting the hull, waterline etc. On models I have built in the past I have had problems when I masked for the waterline, painted the waterline, then removed the tape. Almost always large sections of the white paint I had originally painted on the hull came off with the tape. I was planning to use Rustoleum or Krylon gloss white for the basic hull white, then using Rustoleum/Krylon black for the water line and then the best color I can find to simulate the anti-fouling bottom. I would really appreciate input from anyone with ideas on preparation of the resin hull, techniques etc. to avoid the masking tape ripping off the underlying paint on the hull. Thanks in advance, John E. Fail, Bayfield, Colorado -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: "Satin, Michael N. (SHEP)" Subject: Re: Hornet Aircraft >> So my question is did the Hornet carry naval squadrons (Wildcat, Devastator, Dauntless) in the hanger deck during the Dolittle raid? They were escorted by another fleet carrier (Enterprise? Yorktown?) which suppled CAP top cover for the task force. So perhaps all naval airplanes were off-loaded from the Hornet. << Vess, Hornet's air group was on board struck below. Though Enterprise did accompany her (Yorktown was down south with Lexington getting ready for the Coral Sea) to provide CAP, Hornet brought her aircraft up as soon as the B-25s took off. That close to Japan there was no such thing as too much CAP, and I doubt either Mitcher or Halsey would have allowed her to go without her own air cover, at least as soon as the decks were cleared of Army detritus. P.S. I'm down in the Springs where we will be holding the Region X IPMS(USA) convention in June. Check Colpar for details or write me off list. I've got the MB/Blue Water Enterprise. I assume your Hornet is from them as well. What do you think? Michael Satin -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: "Satin, Michael N. (SHEP)" Subject: Re: Rep. Ship >> Okay I'll start the ball rolling: Australia: HMAS Sydney New Zealand: HMNZS Achilles (HMNZS as of 1941) Britain: HMS Warspite, HMS Hood or HMS King George V USA: USS Washington, USS Enterprise, USS Missouri Canada: HMCS Haida Germany: Bismarck or Scharnhorst Italy: R.N Vitterio Veneto Japan: IJN Yamato with the Kongos not far behind << My two shekels worth: Australia: Sydney sounds good N.Z.: No opinion Britain: I'd go with KGV as she was in so many places and major actions, though Warspite is good too. US: Enterprise. Hands down, no question. Canada: No opinion (sorry) Germany: Bismarck made the biggest splash ;->, but Sharnhorst was around longer and did more. Italy: Veneto Japan: Yamato. That was certainly the one the IJN would pick. Pretty scientific, eh? Michael -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: Aurora colors >> Does anyone know of any current color photos of the Russian cruiser Aurora? << A friend of mine visited the Aurora in Russia (he said it's a museum now). He said it was overall light gray with teakwood decks. For what it's worth. Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. http://www.okclive.com/flagship/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: Hornet air complement >> So my question is did the Hornet carry naval squadrons (Wildcat, Devastator, Dauntless) in the hanger deck during the Doolittle raid? They were escorted by another fleet carrier (Enterprise? Yorktown?) which supplied CAP top cover for the task force. So perhaps all naval airplanes were off-loaded from the Hornet. << The Hornet had a full load of a/c during the Doolittle raid. In the event of an attack, the B-24s were to be pushed into the sea to allow room for the a/c to launch. Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. http://www.okclive.com/flagship/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: Torgeson Roger A Subject: Re: USS Hornet airgroup Vess Irvine, Try to find a copy of the book "Destination Tokyo" by Stan Cohen, it's published by Pictorial Histories located in Missoula Montana. It's a good book on the Tokyo raid from the original conception to fates of the aircrews. It's loaded with pictures, aircraft and ships, and it's inexpensive as books go, around $10.00. It should answer all your questions and then some. Roger Torgeson -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: LubenLarry@aol.com Subject: Re: Oregon instructions If you provide a surface mail address I'll send you a copy of mine Larry B -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: "mkrumrey" Subject: Glencoe Address Hi Shane: In answer to the individual who needed directions to the Glencoe "Oregon", the address is Glencoe Models, Box 846, Northboro, MA 01532, Kit number 08301. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: "Caroline Carter" Subject: Re: Representative ship of each fighting nation I really couldn't resist this one! We agree with most of Shane's choices. Australia: HMAS Sydney... HAS to be really.. New Zealand: HMNZS Achilles (HMNZS as of 1941) Britain: HMS Warspite definitely... "2 World Wars and One World Cup" or something.. USA: USS Enterprise (I'm a confirmed trekkie anyway!) Canada: HMCS Sackville (the little F***ers did so much for the allies) Germany: Bismarck.. oh definitely! Italy: R.N Vitterio Veneto Japan: IJN Yamato and The Netherlands: De Ruyter France: Richelieu Poland: Blyskawica Russian Gangut... I know she didn't do much but what a great looking ship! Any more for any more? Caroline Carter WEM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: "John Sutherland" Subject: Re: Representative Ship of each Fighting Nation Hi all, The first problem I have is trying work out what makes a Ship "famous"? Is it its deeds or the publicity it receives. I will illustrate the problem using a number of British WWII examples. Firstly battleships. This is easy in that Warspite was, in my opinion, one of the few ships that more than lived up to her public exposure and reputation. However arguably the next best known is the Prince of Wales which had a sad carreer. King George V is better known than Duke of York but why? Aircraft carriers are even worse with Illustrious and Ark Royal dominating with the Indomitable, Victorious, and Formidable following. Some even point at Eagle and Hermes. Yet the most used capital ship in the RN in WWII was the Furious. She steamed more miles than anyone else, took part successfully in the Norwegian campaign, probably did more trips and delivered more aircraft to Malta than the two US ships that take all the credit, and finally in terms of dive bombers was an equal and very successful partner in the Tirpritz raid for which the Victorious tends to get an unfair lions share of the credit. Battlecrusiers are even more ridiculous with the three in order of publicity being Hood, Repulse, and Renoun hardly mentioned. Yet Repulse only managed to get herself sunk and in Hood's one fight she failed to hit anything either on Prinz Eugan (her first target) or Bismark. It was the POW that scored the hits on Bismark. Renown on the other hand had a highly successful war including several fights with German battlecruisers and Italian battleships. I could go on and on class by class of warship, It seems to me that the ships that became famous were famous only because they were the command ship at some battle, even if they were not successful in that battle compared to others. So what are we after - the publicity hoggers or the true successful workers? PS. I suspect this is true of all nations. An examination of the actual exploits of Japanese carriers, for example, arguably shows that the most successful was one of the least known - the Junyo. Comments!!! John Sutherland Wellington, NZ, 25C heatwave. Shane - can you send over some of that H20??? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: CBNJBB62@aol.com Subject: Re: Hornet air complement According to the book US AIRCRAFT CARRIERS by Norman Friedman the Yorktown class could carry 84 planes and as many as 37 planes in reserve on the ceiling as replacements for lost aircraft or spare parts to be used. Craig Bennett -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: ECammeron@aol.com Subject: Re: Hornet & B-25s If you look closely at many of the flight deck scenes on board HORNET, you will see some Navy Aircraft. Most of her Air Group was stowed on the hangar deck until the B-25s were launched. Somewhere there is a picture of VF-8's F4Fs testing their guns on the HORNET's flight deck with B-25s in the background. Also, check John Lundstrom's wonderful book "The First Team". Its loaded with details. Eugene Cammeron -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Growlrr@aol.com Subject: Upcoming titles from WR Press - your input requested Hi all My Atlanta Crusiers book from WR Press is coming off press within days - We expect to be looking at real books in about two weeks. OK - now for next subjects I am working with WR on future titles and are looking at these two - 1) - Cleveland Class Light Cruisers (CL55 Class) (Jeff Herne is pursuing another idea, so I have undertaken this project) 2) - South Dakota Class Fast Battleships Anybody have any strong feelings as to which you guys would like to see first? I can't make any promises, but your input will help determine which one goes first OK guys - lets hear your input.... Glenn Arnold -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: John Snyder Subject: Paint Chip Sets I received the following today: >> Hi John, Spotted your message in SMML. Great news for US modellers but how does those of us less fortunate types in countries like New Zealand etc. (in fact any country other than USA) get our hands on these gems. You may wish to post your response in SMML. Regards John Sutherland << Since John made the suggestion, I decided to answer here. We take direct orders, and can accept checks (or cheques, for colours) or money orders; unfortunately, we don't take credit cards. For overseas shipping, please contact us me by e-mail first so that I can get accurate postage costs. If using plastic is a necessity, there are several sources who stock our paints chips, including Pacific Front Hobbies and Floating Drydock in the US, and White Ensign Models in the UK; we also have at least one shop each in Germany and Sweden stocking the chips. So, there's the short answer. If anyone has any specific questions, please don't hesitate to e-mail me. John Snyder Snyder & Short Enterprises 9175 Kiefer Blvd. #224 Sacramento CA 95826 Phone (916) 736-1918 Fax (916) 455-8871 E-Mail: John_Snyder@macnexus.org -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: Shane Subject: APMA meeting this Saturday Hi gang, Just a quick note that APMA(Australian Plastic Modellers Assoc) is having it's monthly meeting this Saturday. The venue is as follows: Ryde Senoir Citizens Club 33 Blaxland Rd, Top Ryde Doors open at 1230. All vistors are welcome. Come & have a look at Australia's premier model cub(Okay so I'm biased ;-) ). It's also got the cutest magazine editor around :->>>. Hope to see you there, heck I might even have a ship finished, then again maybe not :-). All the best Shane 25C & humid -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume