Subject: SMML11/02/99VOL453 Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 23:50:18 +1100 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: new RN carriers 2: Hull Painting 3: Re: Upcoming titles from WR Press - your input requested 4: Re: National representative ships 5: Re: Representative ships AND WHY! 6: A floating drydock 7: Re: B-25s, a slip of the finger 8: Re: Fairmiles 9: Re: Representative Ships 10: Re: Representative Ships 11: Air Compressor Question 12: Re: waterline painting. 13: Re: Hull Painting 14: Re: Hull Painting 15: Spruance superstructure and main mast and...modelling cub???? 16: PSP S-38 model 17: Linear Coefficient of Expansion 18: Comments for John. 19: Re: Representative Ship 20: Re: Orzel Stuff 21: Re: Representative Ship of WWII Navies 22: Re: WR Press Books 23: USN Nuclear Ships in resin 24: Miscellaneous 'Stuff' 25: Re: WR Press Books 26: New subscriber 27: Re: Hornet's B-25s 28: Re: Representative Ship 29: 128th scale ships 30: New Revell kits -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: WTB: Oceanliners 2: Need JS Oriskany -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: olivier CORTOT Subject: Re: new RN carriers I've read in a french aviation magasine that the english politics are studying a new option : a modification to english needs of the Charles De Gaulle french carrier. In order to reduce costs it wouldn't be a nuclear powered ship. That means the royal navy will return to conventionnal aircrafts, maybe the F-18. The aircrafts carriers would be a new class, and France would then order one to maintain its operationnal capabilities. Note that the Charles De Gaulle is now on sea trials and is similar to Foch/Clemenceau class carriers regarding size and weight. (It's snowing on burgundy today) P.S. : forgive my poor english. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Sheridan, John" Subject: Hull Painting >> On models I have built in the past I have had problems when I masked for the waterline, painted the waterline, then removed the tape. Almost always large sections of the white paint I had originally painted on the hull came off with the tape. << Your problem is that the paint is lifting-off because it has nothing to stick to. In order for the paint to properly adhear to the hull, you will need to: 1. Wash the hull with soap and water (or chemicals) in order to remove the release agents used in the hull mold. 2. Prime the surface with a decent primer. Primer etches the surface slightly in order to get the primer to stick to the surface. The primer also provides a vehicle for the paint to stick to as well. >> I was planning to use Rustoleum or Krylon gloss white for the basic hull white, then using Rustoleum/Krylon black for the water line and then the best color I can find to simulate the anti-fouling bottom. << Fine. Just be sure to use a primer first! John Sheridan @ Microscale Decals http://www.microscale.com If I'm talking Decals, then i'm talking for Microscale, Otherwise I am speaking for myself. What I do to Spammers: http://microscale.com/images/N2.jpg I am not a Member of the Lumber Cartel (tinlc) and I am not Unit #631 Fight Spam! Join CAUCE! http://www.cauce.org -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "Sheridan, John" Subject: Re: Upcoming titles from WR Press - your input requested >>I am working with WR on future titles and are looking at these two - 1) - Cleveland Class Light Cruisers (CL55 Class) (Jeff Herne is pursuing another idea, so I have undertaken this project) 2) - South Dakota Class Fast Battleships Anybody have any strong feelings as to which you guys would like to see first? << I personally would like to see a book on the Cleveland Class Cruisers. These were an interesting class of ship to say the least. Of course, the South Dakota class book should follow right behind the Cleveland book. John Sheridan @ Microscale Decals http://www.microscale.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: Hess1962@aol.com Subject: Re: National representative ships I'll have to weigh in on the side of Rodney/Nelson as the UK candidate for this list. In addition to being in most of the major WWII engagements, they LOOKED like battleships...if you asked a kid of my generation to draw a picture of a warship, the result would look a lot like R/N with the exaggeratedly long foredeck bristling with turrets. Germany...has to be a U-boat. Dave Hess, Kalamazoo USA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: "efoeth" Subject: Re: Representative ships AND WHY! US: Definitely not a battleship or cruiser, as the US fought a carrier war, so a big gun ship is surely not representative. A carrier then, and I choose the escort carrier of the Casablanca class. Why? The most characteristic of the US fleet was her enormous industrial might, and the ability to construct a massive fleet in a short timespan. As the casablanca class had roughly 50 ships in her class (Could be a little off) I say that this ship is not only a carrier (although small) but also a testimony of US industrial potential. Japan: Yamato: Japan believed strongly in winning a war in a single decisive battle, using ships superior to that of the US. Japan knew that she could never outbuild the americans, and that thus her ships must be of higher quality and training to survive. The decisive battle is a second strong Japanese believe, and they continously strived towards a Jutland style battle. I think Yamato is the most representative of this idea, not because she is a ship designed superior to any US battleship, but because she failed terribly in what she was supposed to achieve, just as the Japanese never achieved their desicive battle, and she was lost without making any difference to the outcome of the war. Germany: I might be tempted to call the Bismarck the most representative ship, as she was one of the few capital ships in German possesion doomed to fail against the larger british naval might, but as Germany fought a commerce war, I think the U-boat is far more suited as typically german, as it was the U-boat that almost won the Atlantic war. Britain: Name a battleship? And why? As Britain fought a war against Germany, which fought a commerce war, a battleship fight does not really qualify. I am more in favour of a small destroyer, as British destroyer captains fought with great determination and skill, defending their nations lifeline from being cut. Although I was thinking of the Acasta and Ardent versus the German Scharnhorst, perhaps the Glowworm is best suited. I think we all know why, and if you don't, read more books. I think the action is typical for british tenacity and ferocity. Evert-Jan Foeth -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: ALTON007@aol.com Subject: A floating drydock Does anyone know where I can get a 1/350 floating drydock to put the USS Salem in. Thanks Andy -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: B-25s, a slip of the finger About my post yesterday. YEAH, I KNOW. THEY WERE B-25's. Just a slip of the finger. I just wanted to head off the stampede. "65 degrees in February? Gimme that global warming!" Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. http://www.okclive.com/flagship/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: "J. Lamontagne" Subject: Re: Fairmiles Anyone know where I can get a model of: (1) a Fairmile Motor Launch (Canadian ML )--- (2)HMCS Haida or other Canadian wartime Tribal class destroyer? Thanks in advance, John L. Hi John, IIRC, Ultracast has a 1/700 HMCS Haida or you could convert a WEM Tribal. Also Frog/Novo/Russian manufactures & Airfix put out Tribals in 1/500 & 1/600/1/1200 respectively, but these are a bit hard to find. AFAIK, there have been no Farmille kits put out. You could I suppose, try to convert the Airfix 1/72 Vosper MTB or RAF Rescue launch, but I don't know if that's feasible. HTH, Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: "Jeffrey Roberts" Subject: Re: Representative Ships Australia: cruiser Sydney New Zealand: cruiser Achilles Britain: battleship Warspite Canada: destroyer Haida Germany: battleship Bismarck Italy: battleship Vittorio Veneto Japan: carrier Akagi USA: carrier Enterprise France: battleship Richelieu Netherlands: cruiser De Ruyter Poland: destroyer Blyskawica Soviet Union: flotilla leader Tashkent (IMHO one of the most beautiful vessels of the era) Greece: destroyer Vasilissa Olga Norway: destroyer Stord Brazil: destroyer Marcilio Dias Finland: coast defense ship Vainamoinen Jeffrey Roberts North Hollywood, California -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: Felix Bustelo Subject: Re: Representative Ships OK, here are my choices: USA - USS Missouri - Beautiful ship and the site of the Japanese surrender Great Britain - HMS Warspite - just like Caroline said, "2 World Wars and ...." Germany - The U-Boat - had they been used for effectively, who knows what the outcome would have been. The surface ships were striking, but not nearly as effective. Italy - The Vittorio Venneto class France - Richelieu Canada - HMCS Haida Australia - HMAS Sydney New Zealand - HMNZS Achilles Japan - One of the carriers in the Peal Harbor force, take your pick. They learned quickly the effectiveness of the carrier strike force and the lesson of Taranto from the Brits. Yamato, while cool, was an exercise in excess (Sorry folks and you know who you are). I will abstain from other countries as I cannot make a fair choice. Felix Bustelo -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: Felix Bustelo Subject: Air Compressor Question Hi gang, I am looking to buy an air compressor that is fairly inexpensive. A recent Model Expo sale catalog had two models that are right in my price range: Testors Aztek AC 300 for $99.99 Badger Whirlwind II for $119.99 Any opinions/feedback on these model. I have an Aztek A470 airbrush so I was wondering if they airhose will fit on the Badger. I assume that it will fit on the Aztek. Alternately, any other suggestions on models and places to buy? Thanks, Felix -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: CaptainOD@aol.com Subject: Re: waterline painting. John Fail This is the method I have use not only for waterline for also for airliner stripes (OK before any remarks, I flew for Eastern). The first step is to insure that the paint is dry and cured. This means a minimum of one week, two are best. Then after the tape is on, respray the area with the original color, let dry overnight, then spray your new color. This respraying helps prevent an uneven line. Let the paint touch dry and then remove the tape. I have also found that long thin stripes of decal paper sprayed with the same color as the bottom or stripe will also provide a sharp, clear edge. And finally, the shorter the time you have the tape on the model, the better off you are, so don't tape until you are ready to spray and the paint has sat for a couple of weeks. Bob O'Donovan -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: Darren Scannell Subject: Re: Hull Painting >> I am building a 1:96 scale, 42 inch long model of a Coast Guard Cutter I was stationed on many years ago. The hull is resin which I purchased from Scale Shipyard in California. I am ready to start painting the hull, waterline etc. On models I have built in the past I have had problems when I masked for the waterline, painted the waterline, then removed the tape. Almost always large sections of the white paint I had originally painted on the hull came off with the tape. << Hi John, This is how I am going to paint the Perry Hull I got from SSY. First go over the white gel coat outside finish with 600 grit wet dry sand paper, wet of course. Clean off with a damp cloth, and prime( I use Tremclad Grey ). Go over again with 600 if the primer is too rough . Then I would paint the White ( probably 2or 3 light coats) and let dry for a couple of days. Then I mask using regular masking tape ( the top of the boot). Then I will flip the hull and use Tremclad red oxide primer on the bottom for the anti fouling. This I then coat with a matt or satin clear coat (possibly Krylon) because primer does not seal. After another day or two, I mask the bottom of the boot and spray it gloss black. I will remove the tape as soon as the black is dry, I find the tape will leave residue if left on too long. This worked well for me when I painted my own hull a few years back. I suspect that the paint peels because the gel coat is extremely smooth and there is probably mold release residue on it, preventing the paint from sticking properly. The sanding provides a grippable surface without marring the smooth finish. Good luck Darren Scannell -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: "Kenneth H. Goldman" Subject: Re: Hull Painting The process is called "masking," but don't ever use masking tape! Draughting tape looks the same, but has a low-tack adhesive designed to come up without taking the surface with it. I have never had a problem using this. I would suggest laying a strip down on a sheet of polypropylene (I use an old veterinarian-provided anti-licking dog collar) and cutting an 1/8 inch strip to more easily conform to the hull contours, then laying a full-width stip on this. To avoid having to cover the whole model in tape, I use the wider strip, which can be masking tape since it doesn't touch the paint, to affix newspaper or other scrap paper to the initial narrow mask. As for the paint, Rustoleum and Krylon are both rather thick. Of the two, I'd go with Krylon. It dries faster and is not quite as thick. Actually, I like using Krylon red primer for anti-fouling red, and Krylon Matte Fixative puts a nice finish on a project. Ken Goldman THE WALRUS AND THE CARPENTER http://www.wman.com/~khgold/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: "Jens H. Brandal" Subject: Spruance superstructure and main mast and...modelling cub???? The past few days I have been working on my Spruance class DD and received a lot of input from Rick Heinbaugh (thanks Rick) and a bunch of photoetch from White Ensign - paid for, so don't get any ideas (thanks Caroline), and I thought I'd voice this question to the group. The kit instructions tell you to drill out four holes on the starboard side of the hangar to position an extension to the hangar (kit part no E11) that makes the hangar wall stand proud of the side of the aft funnel. Looking at my references, I can find no evidence of this on the Spruances for the time period I want to build her in (BTW, all my references show the ships as they were in the mid eighties at the latest). I haven't made up my mind as to a specific ship yet, but my options are Ingersoll, Elliot and Harry W Hill. This hangar extension seems to be present on the Kidd class, and I suspect that the kit may be intended to model the Spruance in her present configuration. Also, the kit gives you the option of two different configurations of the lower radar platform of the main mast (use either part K22 which is "flat", or parts K21 and add a radar - parts K24 and K6), but the instructions don't tell you which one to use. I would guess that even in the early to mid eighties these ships would have the radar installed - right? And now for something entirely different: >> From:Shane Subject: APMA meeting this Saturday All vistors are welcome. Come & have a look at Australia's premier model cub(Okay so I'm biased ;-) ). It's also got the cutest magazine editor around :->>>. << She's the cub you're referring too, is she? I agree, they're cute at that age:) Jens Hi Jens, OUCH!!!! That's what I get for not checking my spelling & yes she is cute ;->> Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: ALROSS2@aol.com Subject: PSP S-38 model The most recent Squadron Supplement lists a 1/35 scale resin S-38 series Schnellboot by PSP Models. Has anyone seen the actual kit and, if so, what are your impressions? Al Ross -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: "Alex F. Wojcicki" Subject: Linear Coefficient of Expansion Has anyone had any experience in determining the coefficent of expansion of plywood vs. fiberglass/epoxy resin coatings. We are going to have to deal with a rather long piece of plywood (30+ feet), and do not want to waste a lot time and money with cracking/buckling in hot/cold temperatures. If anyone knows the formulas, etc, that would be great. Otherwise, if you know of a website or other contact where we could get help, that would be just fine too... Thanks a bunch! Alex Wojcicki -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: CHRIS DRAGE Subject: Comments for John. Hi SMMeLies, John Sutherland wrote: >> Wellington, NZ, 25C heatwave. Shane - can you send over some of that H20??? << Heat wave,?...Wellington? Listen John, it took two years of living in London to stop me walking in a perpetual list starboard due to Wellington's little 'breezes'. Damn good sailing though..... Does Evans Bay Yacht club still have its Saturday Trailer-Sailer races? ...those were the days...... Regards, Chris He tao rakau e taea te karo, tena he tao kupa kaore e taea te karo.... (Te reo Maori) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: roberto paredes Subject: Re: Representative Ship US: USS Washington (USS Missouri - too late) UK: HMS Hood or HMS King George V FRANCE: Richelieu GERMANY: Bismark JAPAN: Yamato, of course! ITALY: Vittorio Veneto Roberto. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: cwjerden Subject: Re: Orzel Stuff Dave, Can't tell you anything about the Orzel kit. Good luck and let us know what it's like. As for PE in 1/400, Loren Perry at Gold Metal has some sets. #400-1 Naval ships $36.00 (overkill for a sub kit) #400-2 Watetight doors, hatches & hose racks $4.00 (I have not seen this one but it is the right scale) Probaly you would do ok with some 1/350 stuff if you are going to do any other ships (hey, we all need spares) Railings on subs were few and tended to be "nonstandard" compaired to surface ships. #350-10 Gun details $8.00 #350-9 Rails & ladders $5.00 These are two I have that go well on a 1/400 HMS Upholder I'm doing. (Which reminds me, Whats a good paint for "Med Blue",Anyone?) Good luck Dave, And Enjoy the Hobby! Charles J. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 21) From: VessIrvine@aol.com Subject: Re: Representative Ship of WWII Navies While an argument can be made that the most representative WWII ship of the US Navy is an aircraft carrier (i.e. USS Enterprise or USS Yorktown) or perhaps a battleship (i.e. USS Arizona), my vote for the most famous and representative goes to: USS Wahoo O.K., so a submarine is a "boat" and not a "ship." Nevertheless, when you count the ledger of enemy sunk vs. resources expended, the Wahoo ranks way up there. After that, the most representative USN unit of WWII is: Landing Ship Tank (LST) After that, my vote for a ship gaining the most glory against impossible odds is: USS Houston, The Galloping Ghost of the Java Coast Regards Vess Irvine Denver, Colorado -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 22) From: Stephen C Gustafson Subject: Re: WR Press Books Glenn, My vote is for the Cleveland class light cruisers. They were mighty plentiful but not much is written about them. Thanks, Steve Gustafson -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 23) From: Darren Scannell Subject: USN Nuclear Ships in resin Hi all, Ok the brain is freezing up here, A couple of days ago I saw a post, either here or in R.M.S., about a resin company coming out with the USS Long Beach, USS Bainbridge and USS Truxton (I think). Does anyone know anything more about this? Scale? company? etc... Thanks, Darren Scannell (one day cold, the next hot, enough to drive me bonkers, at least no snow for a month!) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 24) From: DaveRiley1@aol.com Subject: Miscellaneous 'Stuff' First: For the US Rep Ship - the USS ENTERPRISE (CV-6), this is a no-brainer; hands down as someone else said. For this ship to have been scrapped was a tragedy. Second: Future WR Press titles - I agree with CLEVELAND and SOUTH DAKOTA classes, but would also like to see the ALASKAs, BALTIMORE class cruisers, and ESSEX class carriers. By the way, will the CLEVELAND book include the Cleveland hulled CVLs? If not, they would also be a good candidate for their own book. Sorry if this smells of WWII, there have been some great ship classes that saw no wartime service. Dave Riley Portsmouth, RI -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 25) From: CBNJBB62@aol.com Subject: Re: WR Press Books I think it would be good if the South Dakota class was covered as the class leader has been neglected in it's early years she was the only ones with 1.1's with 40mm guns . Especially the camouflage jobs. Also I think it would be great if the Lexington class CV-Lexington and Saratoga were also covered. Craig Bennett -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 26) From: SWO77@aol.com Subject: New subscriber Hello all, First off, BZ to the creators of this forum!! I just found out about this resource while looking for references for my 1/350 USS Merrill (DD-976). It is also nice to see some fellow AMD list members here :). I have read most of the archived digests and am beginning to think I am one of very few people actually working on an upgraded Spruance destroyer in 1/350. I'd love to trade thoughts with anyone else modeling something similar. I have gathered quite a bit of reference info from various sources as well as from my own shipboard experiences, but I am always interested in anything related to the Spruance class of destroyers. Regards, Mike -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 27) From: BBara25623@aol.com Subject: Re: Hornet's B-25s Dear Vess, As soon as the last B-25 lifted from hornet's deck,she swung around and did the manuver known as getting the hell out of there. The aircraft she normally carried were below deck and the ones that would not fit were hoisted up into the rafters above the hanger deck which was really right under the flight deck. This was a common situation for the Yorktown class carriers and when room was made by bringing the ready aircraft up on deck to help protect the task force those could be lowered and readied as well. they were brought up as quickly as possible Hope this helps Best regards Ben -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 28) From: Minadmiral@aol.com Subject: Re: Representative Ship Hi All: Many good choices, but I would like to propose a USN ship that was staring all of you in the face-USS Hornet. For the major kick in the ballocks she administered to Japanese pride and feeling of invincability. Chuck Duggie PS-Italian-dinghy was un-called for. Italian ships were beautiful! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 29) From: Al Imler Subject: 128th scale ships Has anyone out there had any experience with 128th scale ships offered from Loyalhanna Dockyard, or any other "large" scale kits? My ultimate goal is a large scale Bismark. By the way, this is a goal my wife knows nothing about. Thanks! Al Imler -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 30) From: "Pletscher-Lenz-Schneider" Subject: New Revell kits I got the new catalog from Revell. They are advertising the following new ship kits: R.M.S. Titanic, 1/400, II/99 Fast Attack Boat "Gepard" Class (Type 143A), 1/144, I/99 Frigate Niedersachsen (Type F-122), 1/300, I/99 USS Arleigh Burke, 1/700, III/99 USS Saipan, 1/700, IV/99 HMS Ark Royal, 1/700, III/99 HMS Manchester, 1/720, I/99 The Manchester Kit is really announced as being in 1/720 scale, but I'd rather think this is a printing error and the scale is in fact 1/700. Ark Royal will probably be a copy of the Invicible kit. The other 1/700 kits should already be known from the Skywave and Dragon range, but they will be considerably cheeper and may also have an underwater hull. Falk Pletscher -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: FOP5@aol.com Subject: WTB: Oceanliners Looking for models of Oceanliners past & present, Carferry ships,cruise ship,tug boat,coast guards,Edmond Fitzgerald ,QE-1,if there is anyone that has them and wantes to sale them willing to purchase them. Please Contact me e-mail FOP5@aol.com Regards; Carmen -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Need JS Oriskany Does anyone have a 1/700 scale Jim Shirley Oriskany kit. I need one to build for a client. Jim Shirley is out of the ship business and if I can't locate one I'll have to do a bit of scratchbuilding and convert the Hasegawa Essex kit. PLEASE let me know. Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume