Subject: SMML15/02/99VOL457 Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 23:47:04 +1100 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: IJN Destroyers. 2: Re: Representative Ships, a couple of Alternatives. 3: kit bases 4: Re: USS Enterprise flight deck 5: Re: Propeller (Screw) guards 6: DesMoines class kit 7: Re: Representative ships 8: Re: USS San Francisco in scale 1:350 9: Rodney and Nelson as in WWII 10: Oregon plans response 11: Re: Coast Guard Patrol Craft 12: Re: USN Flower Class Corvettes 13: Re: Airfix 1/600 Instructions 14: Coast Guard, short end of the stick 15: Modern USN camo 16: Re: Looking for a book 17: HMAS Swan 18: Those Italieri aircraft.... 19: Re: H.M.S.SUFFOLK 20: Tamiya Rodney -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: New "corrected" Flagship Models Web Site -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Douglas Martin" Subject: Re: IJN Destroyers. Folks: The following info on IJN DDs has been extracted from Warship Profile 22, and as such relates mainly to the Yukikaze rather than Harusame. I've found quite a few references to the AA fit changes taking place in 1942/43, or 43/44 without being specific at all. Other sources worth checking out will be Warship Special 2, Super Destroyers for articles on the Japanese 'Special Type', 1923 Destroyers (Fubuki). The 'Rainbow Ten' website has 2 books on 1/700 Drawings of IJN Warships at about 1400 Yen each (less than £7 each), I think Caroline at WEM may have 'Profile Morskie' on IJN Destroyers as well. MJ Whitely and AJ Watts, plus Jengshau?? all have data on IJN warships and their armament and probably 'updates'. Anyhow, here goes: The centre pages show the Yukikaze in her 1945 fit, in overall 'medium' grey, with red hull under the waterline, no boot topping. No lino, decks same colour as hull. X turret has been replaced by 2 triple 25mm AA mounts, amidships are 2* triple 25mm, with a twin 25mm before the bridge (seems to be a standard layouts, although Hasegawa model kits show Hayanami with 6*5" with 2 triple mounts around the fore funnel as well as amidships). There are 12 or 14 single 25mm along side of the hull, behind screens. There is a Type 22 radar on the foremast, Type 13 on the mainmast, scuttles are mostly sealed (but not all), degaussing cable fitted to the hull and steel plates added to the bridge. It is said that the twin 25mm before the bridge was added by July 1943, whilst the twin 25mm amidships were exchanged for triple mounts. This refit took place at Kure, after the US invaded Attu, and appears to be in May/June 1943 rather than July. (No single mounts, so total = 8). Radar added to the bridge. Second refit took place on or after 02/09/43 at her 'home' port. This was for the removal of the 'X' turret, replaced by 2 twin triple mounts, = 14 25mm. Radar Types 13/22 added with new sonar, completed by early October 1943. Third refit, 05/07/44 to 15/08/44, 14 single 25mm added. Maintenance at Kure, 30/11/94 to 22/12/94, new model Type 3 sonar fitted. That's it for Yukikaze, note timing of first refit was after the Battle of the Bismarck Sea, where the IJN DDs found themselves completely incapable of protecting themselves and convoy from air attack, hence the additional mounts (still inadequate). Pictures of Kiyoshima, as completed in May 1944, 6*5", 14*25mm (twin in front of bridge, 2 triples behind first funnel, 2 triples in 'amidships' position, forward of the second funnel), obviously cant make out any singles! Type 22 on mainmast. Hayashimo, Feb 44, as above but no triples behind the fore funnel. Hayanami, July 1943, 2 triples amidships, twin in front of bridge. Drawing of Yukikaze, 'late 1944', 'X' turret removed, increased 25mm and bridge shields, scuttles not apparently sealed. That's it! Looks like the Akigumo/late Yugumo class were completed with the 6*5" and retained them, with the main 14*25mm), whilst earlier classes including Kagero/Yukikaze and earlier lost their 'X' turret to get the 14*25mm. I could find out more, but as Yukikaze appears fairly typical (to my mind), the dates will probably reflect the changes made to surviving IJN DDs. Douglas (Scotland) PS, photos of Amatsukaze on the 'Warship' site and or Paolo's site (Navis). -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Douglas Martin" Subject: Re: Representative Ships, a couple of Alternatives. Folks: How about the smaller ships as representatives: Japan: IJN Yukikaze or Hamakaze. UK: HMS Sheffield or Jervis. Just a thought, it really depends on how you view the subject. Douglas -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: AZJOE1445@aol.com Subject: kit bases Aaron. Generally what I do is this,depending on the size of the kit drill two or three holes to accept a 1/4X20 threaded rod. If you don't want to thread the holes, drill them oversized and set them into the hull with epoxy. From this piont on you can do almost anything you want. During construction the kit can be mounted on a 2X4 or a 2X6 to facilitate construction, makes handling and painting so much easier! As for the dowel drill holes completely through it to correspond with the rod locations then drill two holes in the base counter sunk from the bottom to accept a nut and washer. Make the nuts snug and there it is, a nicely mounted kit with minimal hassle. Remember to make the rods long enough, they can easily be shortened but you can't make them longer. Hope this is of some help. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: "Jens H. Brandal" Subject: Re: USS Enterprise flight deck >> I'm at the point where I have to start thinking about how to paint the flight deck on my Enterprise. Any tips or suggestions? << Mark, You didn't specify which Enterprise, but I assume you're thinking about the CVN-65, right? If not, you may still find some of this interesting. I haven't got that far yet, but I have started planning and dreaming, so here is the way I have planned it so far - i.e. subject to change:) You will be using decals for a lot of the markings of the flight deck, so make sure you either paint the deck a gloss colour or use a gloss varnish over the flat colour. As for a specific colour, I believe FS -6081 Engine grey has been quoted as a close enough match. Anyway, it's a very dark grey. Technically, I would mask the deck edges and use Xtracolour FS16081 in an airbrush to get an even coverage on that large area. When dry, you can apply the decals (use Gold Medal Models red and yellow fouling lines, and you can also use white trim film cut into strips if you want the white outline "65" on the deck). For the landing area borders and centerline, use masking tape (the Tamiya masking tape is expensive but excellent) and airbrush the markings on. The gazillions of white dots? There is supposedly a dry transfer sheet of small white dots available from Letraset that will do the trick and this will be the easiest route by far. The alternative is to dip a coctail stick in white paint and do them one by one by one by... When all the markings are on the deck, you can apply a coat of flat varnish, or if you want to show a rainsoaked deck, a more semi gloss coat. Once done, it's time for weathering - such a large open area will look dull and monochromatic if you don't make it look dirty. Even in pictures it rarely looks all the same in colour. You can use your airbrush and *mist* coats of an even darker grey (like "tire black") randomly over the flight deck. Go easy over the white flight deck markings, but concentrate your wear and tear on the area where the planes touch down. Often the clue to weathering is to stop just before you think you've done enough - subtlety is the key unless you are going for a very weathered look. Hope this helps, and look forward to hearing your own experiences before it's time to paint mine. Jens -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: Steve Singlar Subject: Re: Propeller (Screw) guards I am a volunteer aboard the USS Salem at the Quincy Shipyard. I checked yesterday, she also has wooden inserts on her screw guards. When in commission these were well varnished and gleaming. Now they are dried out and dull. The purpose of the wood was to be able to replace it if it got scuffed up by use. Also, the cruiser being a show boat the varnished wood looked fancy. On many multi-screw ships the outter screws protrude beyond the hull. The screw guards are to keep tugs and/or other ships at berth from damaging the screws. If you look at a photo of the old 4 stack destroyers, they had huge screw guards. If anyone is in the Boston area and would like a tour of the Salem, let me kow. I go there to work once or twice a month (It's only 50 miles). The tour is $6 for self guided tour. If I know your coming, I'll get you into some of the closed off spaces- Engineering, CIC. They also have a nice display of model ships the USS St. Paul memorial room and the crusier sailors are set up there also. Steve Singlar Pelham, NH -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: Steve Singlar Subject: DesMoines class kit Steve Wiper at Classic Warships just came out with a beauty of a 1/350 resin DesMoines class kit. Full hull or water line. It is available from Pacific Front hobbies (shipguy@pacificfront.com.) The South Shore Hobby club (check out the Salem's web site) may have a few intro kits left. This will be my challange, to build a resin kit. I am a plastics guy at heart, but you just can't get good cruisers in plastic. Anyone know a good technique to straighten a warped lower hull? Any precautions when working with resin kits? I know about using super glue and cleaning the kit before painting. Any other tips? Thanks, Steve -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: Jeff Herne Subject: Re: Representative ships I had to answer this... If we're talking about ships which symbolize a country, which are considered sacred by their owners, etc...then we MUST consider the following... US: USS Arizona UK: HMS Hood IJN: Yamato DKM: Bismarck Australia: Canberra This is not to say that ships like Enterprise or Warspite or Queen Elizabeth aren't deserving...but you ask a majority of people, chances are these are the ones that come to mind straight away...it is the tragic manner of their loss which has immortalized these ships. Just my opinion... Jeff -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: Steve Singlar Subject: Re: USS San Francisco in scale 1:350 Hello Reider, I have visited Steve Wiper (Classic Warships) at his shop (home) in Tucsn, AZ. He is Mr. cruiser as far as I am concerned. He knows the detailed differences between the various ships of the New Orleans class crusiers. He has a large library of details and does a lot of research at the Navy Archives. I would have no problems recommending his San Francico cruiser. (If I ever get good at resin kits. I plan to get this kit myself). Classic Warships distributes through Pacific Front Hobbies (shipguy@pacificfront.com). I have no vested interest in either Classic Warships or Pacific Front Hobbies. Good luck, Steve Singlar Pelham, New Hampshire -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: Vimieraa@aol.com Subject: Rodney and Nelson as in WWII For details of the differences in the weapons fit between Rodney and the Nelson, consult British Battleships of World War Two by Raven and Roberts, specifically pages 296 and 297. If you do not have a copy of this book and wish to obtain one, then somebody, somewhere, will offer to sell you a copy, almost certainly at a statospheric price: parasites!!! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: "scola" Subject: Oregon plans response WOW!!!!!!!!! Thanks to everyone who responed to my request for info on Oregon plans. It was overwhelming to say the least and greatly appreciated. It's nice to know that help is out there from all you fellow ship modelers. SEMPER FI ! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: "roger torgeson" Subject: Re: Coast Guard Patrol Craft James Corley, According to Paul Silverstone's book US Warships of World War 2, Haste (PG-92) was ex H.M.S. Mandrake, Intensity (PG-93) was ex H.M.S. Milfoil, Might (PG-94) was ex H.M.S. Musk, and Pert (PG-95) was ex H.M.S. Nepeta. All appear to have been built in Canada by Morton, and launched between July and November 1942. Roger Torgeson -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: "chenyangzhang" Subject: Re: USN Flower Class Corvettes PG69 Fury was one of the Flower class corvettes transferred to the USN direct from the RN. Its former identity was HMS Larkspur. The Canadian Flowers which were intended for the USN were in the range PG86-100 of which PG88, PG90, PG91 and PG97-100 went to the RN in 1943. PG62-71 were returned to the RN in 1946. Details of the RN names can be found in: Warships of World War II by H T Lenton +ACY- J J Colledge+ADs- US Warships of World War 2 by Paul H. Silverstone The Silverstone book also has photos of PG62 Temptress, PG63 Suprise, PG69 Fury and PG93 Intensity. I agree re the stack of Fury, I can't see any difference either. The armament of PG86-100 is listed as 2 x 3+ACI- Chris Langtree -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: "Douglas Martin" Subject: Re: Airfix 1/600 Instructions Henrik: Depending on the number of offers you get, or dont, I can send you a photocopy set of Belfast instructions. Douglas (Scotland) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Coast Guard, short end of the stick I have felt for a long time that the US Coast Guard has got the short end of the stick from the modeling industry. They have many very interesting vessels in their inventory. I know the "history" isn't there as is with WW2 warships, but I can't help but feel there would be sufficient interest in models of the cutters, support craft, drug enforcement vessels etc. They are bright and colorful and would make stunning models. I hope some cottage industry will take a shot at producing some of these models. I personally would be a buyer. Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. http://warship.simplenet.com/Flagship.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: Jowfx@webtv.net (John Fox) Subject: Modern USN camo I just saw a program tonight on The History Channel about USN Special Warfare craft. They showed a Cyclone class PC in a camouflage pattern. Does anyone know what colors are used? There were a couple of shades of gray and a light blue. They also showed a Mark V boat with what looked like a two tone gray pattern. Does anyone make a kit of either of these. John Fox -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: "Paul Toscano" Subject: Re: Looking for a book >> I'm looking for the book "Underwater Warfare in the Age of Sail". Anyone got a lead on it? << Check abebooks.com They have 17 booksellers listed who have this book available. Paul -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: Greg Lee Subject: HMAS Swan Hi, Does anybody know if there was a kit of the HMAS Swan produced? TIA Greg Hi Greg, AFAIK, there has been no kit of HMAS Swan issued. You could try to convert the Airfix 1/600 HMS Leander, which is the same Type 12 hull & flush decked, ie: hasn't got the broken deck of the earlier Type 12s. Also WEM has a Type 12 DE HMS Apollo in 1/350 & IIRC, this could also be converted. Unfortunatly I've lent my copies of PSM out that had pictures of it & WEM's site pictures wouldn't load for me(I think I was looking during an upgrade). Also, if you want to go to 1/72, check out Task Force 72 web site at: http://www.healey.com.au/~mkear/taskforce72.html Shane 30C nice & warm with a cool breeze blowing off the lake, just 2 minutes stroll away :-))) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: "Morley, James (London)" Subject: Those Italieri aircraft.... >> As the reviewer hints, the standard of the aircraft is abysmal in all of the Italieri Supercarrier releases. I would strongly recommend replacing them with the Skywave USN aircraft sets. << (J.Morley) >> I agree. When I designed the Nimitz class super set I included complete aircraft detail parts for each type of aircraft offered with these kits (except F-18s) .........(Rusty White) << Again, I would strongly recommend switching the aircraft BEFORE buying aftermarket details. The Italieri ones were never good, but now that the molds are ageing, they are like vague blobs, all the tails are way too thick (and some the wrong shape). If you apply etched metal to these, you are casting pearls before swine. As an aside, there might be a market for alternative airgroup decal sheets for the Skywave sets. Perhaps a circa 1975 Enterprise to go with the Revell kit ?? J.Morley -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: Les Pickstock (Les Pickstock) Subject: Re: H.M.S.SUFFOLK Daniel If you send me a postal address I'd be happy to send you the articles you mentioned. E-mail me at J.L.Pickstock@lboro.ac.uk. Les Pickstock "I'd rather have a full bottle in front of me than a full frontal Lobotomy" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: "chenyangzhang" Subject: Tamiya Rodney The Tamiya model actually represents Rodney c1929. When she was first built the pom-poms were not ready and so directors were fitted in their place. These were replaced later on. Chris Langtree -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: New "corrected" Flagship Models Web Site Apparently I made an error when I quoted my new web site URL. I didn't think not capitalizing "Flagship" would make any difference. It did, as was pointed out to me from several modelers. So here's the right Url: http://warship.simplenet.com/Flagship.htm Sorry for the confusion. Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. http://warship.simplenet.com/Flagship.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume