Subject: SMML25/02/99VOL467 Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 23:59:24 +1100 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: 11" Dahlgren Naval Gun by Verlinden 2: 54 mm scale and canonball weights 3: Re: 1/350th scale figures for 1/300 Taney 4: Re: 54 MM scale 5: Airfix HMS Warspite 6: Re: Dahlgren gun 7: Bofors 20mm for WW1 subchaser 8: My 2 Cents on the Bismarck and Tirpitz 9: IJN Cruisers Book 10: Re: Dahlgran Naval Gun 11: Book on Imperial Russian Warships 12: Re: Mystery Book 13: C3 Cargo Ship Model 14: SS United States 15: Help: HMS Renown 16: Empress of Asia/Russia 17: Custom Photoetched Parts 18: Re: Aztek airbrushes 19: Re: Hotspur 20: Revell model of ARK ROYAL -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: 1/350 Real People 2: International Maritime Modeling February Update 3: Truks and Traks.. TTFN -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Colin Ritchie Subject: Re: 11" Dahlgren Naval Gun by Verlinden >> I also saw the Dahlgren Naval Gun Model. It looks very interesting. VLS lists some of their models as 1:48 or 1:35 Scale. But this one is shown as "54 mm". What does that mean and what does it equate to in terms of 1:??? And BTW, what would a cannon ball weigh for an 11" or 15" gun? << Hi there, I'm sure I'm not the only one who will reply to this, but 54mm is a standard military modelling scale, derived from the size of the figures, it scales out to 1/32-1/35th , hence the standard AFV scale of 1/35th . Hmm 54mm Naval gun, lets see CVN-65 in 54mm would be ........approx 34 feet cooool! Colin Ritchie /nWOm BTW Colin, how goes the 1/350 Enterprise :->> Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "efoeth" Subject: 54 mm scale and canonball weights 54 mm is a figure scale, and happens to be 1:35. Verlinden uses this to denote the scale on his little figures. A small warning on verlinden though: the manuals on most of his models are extremely poor. When asked why, he tells everyone that he is 51% buissinesmans, and 49% modeler. I once build a M113 to M163 conversion kit, and some parts needed to go at the end of the arrow on his manual which could be anywhere!! At the end of the manual, there is usually a small reference sounding like "Buy OUR book on this vehicle to help building your model" These books are expensive, yet worthless. Also, don't expect ANY help on colors. And, to make matters worse, many of his parts are just too small. I made 3 engine update sets which provide you with a new enginedeck part, and without exception, there were all 10% too small. His figures are very good though, too bad they are mostly germans standing in a bored position. For the canonball: a ROUND 11" canonball would have a volume of 4/3 Pi R^3, or 1/6 Pi D^3 = 1/6 Pi (11*0.0254m)^3=0.011420 m^3 With a density of ~7800 kg/m^3 of steel, that would be 89 kilograms, or 196.5 pounds Idemdito for the 15" ball : 225 kilograms or 498 pounds The 15" ball is (15^3)/(11^3)=2.5 times heavier. Evert-Jan Foeth -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: Duane Fowler Subject: Re: 1/350th scale figures for 1/300 Taney >> Seven foot tall 1/350th figures are just the thing I need to make 5' 9" crewmen for my 1/302 scale Taney! (I just hope they don't look too British for a US Coast Guard Cutter...) << I don't think you need to wory about being too British but the height may be a problem. After all, we were all supposed to be at least 6 feet tall. That way, if our ship sank we could walk to shore. :) Best regards, Duane (dlfowler@uscg.net) Fowler -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: Bradford Chaucer Subject: Re: 54 MM scale I believe that 54 mm is equivelent to 1/35 scale. Regards, Bradford Chaucer -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: "Chris Hughes" Subject: Airfix HMS Warspite Hi everybody, After seeing some of the ship models at Yeovilton on Saturday, especially those on the WEM stand, I'm now gearing myself up to attacking my CVN-65... I stopped off at a local model shop today and bought a couple of reasonably cheap kits to hone my modelling skills. One was the Revell HMS Sheffield, the second was the Airfix HMS Warspite. I'm quite happy that I can get some reasonable references for the Sheffield, but would appreciate any help from the SMMLies with Warspite. I see that WEM has a PE set listed, which I shall order in due course (as I will also do for the Sheffield). Having had a nostalgic look through the instruction sheet (I first built a Warspite back in the late '60's) I would like to portray her in her D-Day guise. So, any hints, tips or other gems of wisdom from the assembled masses? Please feel free to email me if you don't want to swamp the list! TIA Chris Hughes -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: SantMin@aol.com Subject: Re: Dahlgren gun >> What does that mean and what does it equate to in terms of 1:??? And BTW, what would a cannon ball weigh for an 11" or 15" gun? << Roger, 54mm is a scale used for military miniatures and it equates to 1/32 scale. Bob Santos -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: Lawman555@aol.com Subject: Bofors 20mm for WW1 subchaser Gentlemen/Ladies; I am new to this site and am not sure if this is the proper way to ask any questions; but I'm going to try anyway. Please forgive me if I'm out of order and advise me of the right way. (Note from Shane: Jim, you're doing fine :-) ) I was looking for some drawings of both the single 40 mm cannon, Bofors, I think, as well as the single 20 mm cannons Ok_______ something or other (Swiss I think) that had been added to the WWII vintage submarine chasers. (110' class). I have a WWI model subchaser and wish to convert it to a WWII vintage model. I have crafted the wheelhouse and am preparing the deck additions for the 20 mm's but cannon find any good blueprint, or otherwise , drawings of the guns to recreate in what I think would be about 1/72nd scale. Anyone know where I can locate such drawings? Thanks ahead of time Jim Myers -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: Ophelia Subject: My 2 Cents on the Bismarck and Tirpitz Hello Everyone; I have just joined up a few days ago and have noticed mail nearly everyday on either the Bismarck or Tirpitz. I have found some of it very interesting and will add some info to my very large collection on these two ships. A lot of points and speculation I would like to share with you comes from this collection which includes several rare pictures, architectural and contractor sketches and pieces of various logs. However, not knowing the extent of what has been said, I will try not to make myself sound redundant. Lastly, I would like to say that I am not a naval expert per se and a lot of this info has come through my own research several years ago, mostly before the internet when this type of study was still fairly independant so some of it may sound archaic or even be disproven, so I will do my best. Firstly, as far as colour schemes of the Bismarck and Tirpitz let me say they never resembled each other. When the Tirpitz recieved her first real coat of paint (erasing the factory looking camoflauge) it was done at Whimhelmshaven and the colour was `Baltic sea grey' (loosely translated into English), this according to the builders themselves. She basically stayed this way until Norway. The Bismarck was painted in a base of Kriegamarine grey (or whatever you wish to call it) pretty much from the beginning, this of coarse being the standard German sea colour ranging in tone sometimes quite a bit due to poor factory tolerances. You can see the difference in the ships in clearer photos noting the Tirpitz is more metalic appearing. As far as the decks go most pictures of the Bismarck seem to show that sometime during or right after final fitting her (his?) decks were painted a very dark grey forward the funnel as well as the catapult. The main bridge may have been painted black on top, the funnel cap was left in steel, and she generally took on the basic Scharnhorst ship colours. All other decks seem to be the same colour of the superstructure, which definitly was a much lighter colour than the rest of the hull ( I can supply more details if you wish but most of this is common knowledge). I have no good pictures of the Tirpitz from above in the Baltic, but research indicates it to be the same as the Bismarck. Now to the meaty stuff. I remember reading that when Bismarck was ordered to repaint in Grimstad Fijord she was ordered to change her paint scheme and Cpt. Lindmann ordered the Bismarck be `fully painted out', I do not remember the exact source of this since I have not dealt with this topic in a few years but I am filtering through all my resources right now and hope to give you the exact source (if interested). Also of note is that Prinz Eugen was ordered to be `repainted' as well and according to Cpt. Brinkmanns logs his ship was painted grey overall. Would the two vessels be painted differently? I assume not, but then again I have never seen any good photos of this ship after her final departure. Also to note here is the fact that this is secondary source info that I translated from German. I have tried to follow up on this many times it had always led to dead ends, I do not know where the author quoted info from the Cpts. logs. Next, I have a theory why yellow may have been a part of the colour scheme. According to more sources than not the swastikas were canvasted over before leaving for the Atlantic (although I am not thoroughly satisfied with what I know here since the sunken Bismarck pictures could be pictures with the paint worn off since it was freshly painted only a few days before, if you know better please tell me), fine and good. Now if you go back to the day Hitler came aboard ship (Apr or May '41?) there are two very good pictures of the stern facing forward. If you look carefully at the turrets where they are supposed to be painted red you will notice that the paint job is more than a little rough around the edges, quite uneven in other spots AND the range finders look as though they have been covered! Have the rear turret tops been canvassed? I believe so since all ships in May '41 were supposed to have been painted very similar (i.e. like Scharnhorst) like the wobbly pots and the all one colour turret, etc., and althouth I have no proof of it it may have been part the plot to make all German ships look even more similar to help Bismarck escape (who knows with Raeder, right?), which would make the canvas an easy alternative to repainting the Luftwaffe Baltic id colour, especially since Bismarck was already schedualled to depart and red paint would have needed at least three coats to hide. So back to my point, when the Bismarck was desperatly heading for France, she could have uncovered her swastikas and added the yellow canvas to alert the Luftwaffe, and if the second funnel story was true it certainly would have attracted a lot of attention on the part of the Germans and helped them not to bomb her. Alternaatively, the canvas could easily be removed if the British attempted to fly near for any reason (like I said just a theory I have tried to make as short a possible). Lastly, a note concerning Tirpitz is that in any one of her North Sea paint schemes her dark grey is generally more accepted to be a blue-grey rather than a sea grey and the two colourish pictures from her dissasembly this would seem to hold true (I have even been told pieces of her superstructure have been saved(?)). Her decks also seemed to change with every passing month, so be carefull to pattern your models hull and superstructure to the decks paint scheme by date of the photo. Siegfried Breyers books are excellent resources for this. Once again I hope I could have helped someone out and maybe next time I can less haphazardly enter the conversation, or even help out with more info, especially if the wife stops nagging. Cheers; Mark A. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: "Sean D. Hert" Subject: IJN Cruisers Book Hello All- My thanks to all who recommended Lacroix and Wells' Japanese Cruisers of the Pacific War- it arrived today; and yes, it has all I ever wanted to know and MORE. A worthy book @ 80.00- and twice as worthy at half that! Thanks again, Sean D. Hert Webmeister, MBG Site: http://www.netwalk.com/~popev/bg/ IJN Mogami (Fitting Out) "The Spartans do not ask the number of the enemy, only where they are." -Agix of Sparta -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: "Craig Brown" Subject: Re: Dahlgran Naval Gun Roger, 54 mm is one of many miniature figure scales ( VLS may be going to come out with a crew for the gun at a later date ) I have seen figures in this scale used with 1/32 scale aircraft. Craig Brown -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: Minadmiral@aol.com Subject: Book on Imperial Russian Warships Hi all; About 2 months ago I was looking at a website at some 1:700? resin Imperial Russian pre-dreadnaughts. Listed on the same webpage was a book on Imperial Russian warships. I can`t remember the website, or the book title. Does anyone recognize this book? By the way, if your doctor gives you codine for a long time expect memory problems. I have been on it 25 years. Chuck Duggie ( I think ) PS-Got a Potemkin kit from the Russian firm using Heller 1:400 molds. Took 1 look in the box and went back to my 1:900 Napoleonics and WWII 1:600 coastal craft !! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: dhjonespsm@juno.com Subject: Re: Mystery Book Hi Alan, In today's SMML, which I assume you would have seen. >> I see from looking at the Amazon.co.uk website that for 1999 they have listed for CONWAYS MARITIME PRESS a book listed as "Warship Camouflage 1914-45 by David Williams (not publication date is noted). << Whodat???? Dan -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) >From: wasuwasuu@webtv.net (william ulrich) Subject: C3 Cargo Ship Model During WWII, I served as a radio operator on the SS Sea Porpoise, A C3 cargo ship that had been converted to a troop transport. Over the years I have attempted (unsuccessfully) to locate a model for a C3. Any suggestions? Thank you, William Ulrich -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: "gettyup" Subject: SS United States Howdy Everyone, I am looking for a 1/600 or 1/700 scale kit of the SS United States.. This luxury liner was one of the last to be retired and is one of the Queens of the Sea.. I am hoping that there is a kit of this ship, as remember building this kit back in the 1960s.. But that's been some time ago..If anyone knows of such a kit , I would be greatly appreciated for the info.. Thank You for your time.. Sincerely, Randy Simonson Merritt Island, Fla. Hi Randy, Revell & Glencoe recently re-released kits of the SS United States. Now IIRC, Revell's kit is 1/600 & Glencoe has re-released the old ITC mould at 1/400. From the reviews I've read, the Revell kit is the better of the two. Check out IMM(Felix has an update below). HTH, Shane 20c & Raining :-((( -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: Charles Stephanian Subject: Help: HMS Renown I'm thinking about building the Billings Boats model of the HMS Renown, the steam pinnace. I've been unable to find any plans or reference for it...does anyone have anything on this, or an idea where to find more info. I've checked Taubman's catalogs and done internet searches. Any help most appreciated. Thanks, Charles T -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: "Steve New" Subject: Empress of Asia/Russia Hi All, Has anyone ever built either of these ships, or does anyone know where I can obtain detailed plans or photographs of the decks and small fittings, winches etc.? I'm new to this, is there an archive of such items, something like Lloyds List perhaps, or a Government office in the UK? All answers gratefully followed up. Best regards Cheers Steve:-)) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: SWO77@aol.com Subject: Custom Photoetched Parts For all, I have come to realize that I need some photoetched gratings for a ship I am working on. These items are meant as replacements for kit details and there aren't any photoetched details available that resemble what I need. My question is, does anyone know of a source where I can find some *fast*, cheap, custom, one-off photoetched parts? I only need 10-15 gratings in 1/350 scale, each about one quarter the size of a US penny so the sheet would be very small (about the size of a GMM or Flagship accessory sheet). The design is nothing more than a square with rounded corners and horizontal louvers, plus probably a few other simplistic designs (nothing at all fancy). I recall seeing ads for custom photoetch somewhere, but the location and fees escape my memory. Any leads would be greatly appreciated. TIA for any help. Mike -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: Mike.Dunn@dresdner-bank.com Subject: Re: Aztek airbrushes Paul wrote :- >> I am contemplating the purchase of a double action airbrush to have more control in painting my models and I'm leaning toward buying an Aztec. Does anyone out there know the differences between the Aztec A430 and A470? Any experiences with either brush? << Well, Paul, these two models are essentially the same, apart from 1 main difference - the A430 is a fixed double-action, whereas the A470 (also known as the Aztek 2000, when I bought mine) can be used as single-action, fixed double-action of full double-action. What does that mean? Well, to copy from the web site: (http://www.testors.com/Aztek/) "A single action airbrush has the air regulated by pushing down the trigger. Paint is regulated by the roller. Fixed double action has the air and the paint regulated by depressing the trigger only. Double action regulates the air by pushing the down the trigger then pulling the trigger back to introduce the paint." While I'm not a very good airbrush artist, the results you get are tremendous. The model I have is the A-2000 (now the A470), and is extremely good for both the beginner and experienced airbrusher. As you start, you use the single-action almost exclusively, but as you practice (I practice with actual artwork - which my wife slates!), you start getting into the other modes of use. But - ask yourself. Will you ever want to use the full functions of the A470? It's very good, very powerful, and not at all cheap (unless we get penalised here in England on the importation). If you can afford it AND would be using it fully, go for the A4709 set - it comes with 4 nozzles, 4 paint cups and 2 bottles (among other items) - otherwise get the A4305 set - OK, it's basic, but you can always add more nozzles & cups if you want to. (For those who don't know, the Aztek range are unlike other airbrushes, in that the paint never enters the body of the brush. It just goes into the chosen nozzle, of which there are several, depending on your requirement. This is a very good innovation, and also makes cleaning that much easier) I'd also suggest you think about a compressor, as tinned air tends to run out at the most inopportune moments - normally just as the nearest supplier is shutting for the week-end! Mike Dunn -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: Pieter Cornelissen Subject: Re: Hotspur >> As Shane replied, Airfix made the 1/600 Hotspur. A lesser know kit was H.M.S. Hero, made by FROG, at 1/500 scale. FROG also made a Tribal, H.M.S. Ashanti and the modern Undine, maybe also a Rothesay (but I cant be sure). << I have picked up a FROG Undine and a Tri-ang (FROG for the french market?) Torquay at a Rotterdam hobby shop some time ago. I think Torquay -a Whitby class frigate- is the Rothesay you mentioned. I don't have time to build them, but they are quite good for their time (1950's). I'm not sure if they have any collector's value, but this is probably the only model available in any scale of a Whitby class frigate.If you find one, pick one up. All present day Royal navy frigates are in some way related to the Whitby class and it's set of specifications (similar to the way the Bronstein class can be considered 'ancestors' of modern US frigates). Pieter Cornelissen -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: "Pletscher-Lenz-Schneider" Subject: Revell model of ARK ROYAL I just talked to Revell Germany, and I was told that the Revell/Dragon kit of ARK ROYAL will not be a simple copy of the INVINCIBLE kit. It will show the ship as she appeared during the Golf War with a different sky jump and addiditional CIWS equippment. I also learned that their ARLEIGH BURKE kit and the German Fast Attack Craft Type 143 A will be delayed until summer. Falk Pletscher -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Shaya Novak" Subject: 1/350 Real People Dear SMMLers, Here at The Naval Base we have 1/285 scale WWII soldiers from "CinC" when sailors went to battle stations during the War they all wore helmets. So I paint them Navy WWII colors or Modern Pilots with Helmets. Sailors I flatten their helmets presto seamen. I then cut off their rifles, turn the arms, clip them off at the feet on top of the platform attach them to ship with glue tadah! By cutting them off on top of the base they shrink to 1/350 ish, much better looking then photoetch people. They are white metal 50 to a box $6.00 & 3.00 dollars for shipping. contact us 212-759-1846. Shaya -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: Felix Bustelo Subject: International Maritime Modeling February Update I am pleased to announce that the February update to International Maritime Modeling is now up. http://members.tripod.com/~Febus65/imm.htm This month's update is dedicated solely to ocean liners and merchant ships. In an effort to balance out military subjects with merchant subjects, I will from time to time have updates like this month's. I feel that sometimes non-military subjects are overlooked. The February 1999 update to the site includes: Photos of Atle Ellefson's ocean liner and merchant ship models in the Photo Gallery. Atle is a fellow SMMLer. Quick Kit Reviews of the Airfix 1/600 Mauretania, Minicraft 1/350 Titanic and Modelcraft 1/130 Shell Welder Coastal Tanker. Photoetch Reviews Tom Modelworks 1/350 and 1/400 Titanic Sets, Gold Medal Models 1/350 Merchant Ship (Titanic/Lusitania) Set, 1/350 Scale Gold Plus Titanic/Lusitania Detail Set and 1/350 Scale Ocean Liner Figures and Atlantic Model's 1/130 Shell Welder Coastal Tanker Set. Book Reviews of the Picture History of the Cunard Line (by Ian Wilkins, former webmaster) and the Picture History of the French Line. Updated the Photoetch List to include Atlantic Model's line of classic PE scale sets. Added some new ocean liner related URLs to the Links Page. Also there are some product annoucments from White Ensign Models and a plea to write Airfix to encourage them to re-issue the 1/600 scale Queen Elizabeth. So please stop by and pay a visit. Thanks, Felix Bustelo Webmaster -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "Caroline Carter" Subject: Truks and Traks.. TTFN Just a brief message to say that WEM will be closed as of later today for Truks and Traks at Folkestone at the weekend. We look forward to seeing many European SMMLlies there.. we're on the main floor as I have said before, and the event is over 2 days. The main computer will be off-line until after we get back, due to a back-up maintenance, from later today, so messages will inevitably remain unanswered until after the weekend. Whatever you are doing have a super weekend, and we look forward to getting back to "normality" next week. Regards Dave and Caroline Carter WEM P.S. I will try to make my last effort later today to get pics of Ian Ruscoe's gorgeous 1/700 HMS Edinburgh/dockyard diorama up... with all those trains, dock sections, and buildings from the Dockyard Mateys range. For those of you who saw his 1/350 HMS Hood build for Tamiya magazine, you are aware of the sort of thing to expect! Those of you at Truks n Traks will of course see the real thing! http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/white.ensign.models -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume