Subject: SMML07/03/99VOL477 Date: Sun, 07 Mar 1999 23:36:22 +1100 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: USS Missouri open for visitors 2: Re: Another museum listing 3: Re: HMS Victory kit 4: Re: IJN Yamato 5: Re: RN patrol craft colors 6: HMS Victory -- gold colors 7: Re: British Patrol Craft Colours 8: Re: HMS Victory 9: Re: SMS Derfflinger 10: Re: HMS Victory (colors) 11: Re: USS Kidd 12: Re: WW-II British patrol craft colours 13: Re: IJN Yamato and Kaga: best Skywave accessories 14: Camouflage of HMSs Edinburgh/Belfast/Fiji/Trinidad 15: V Beeks Bismarck 16: Re: Sub hull painting 17: Japanese AA guns 18: Re: USS Kidd -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Steve Singlar Subject: Re: USS Missouri open for visitors Jim, The Missouri is open. They have two type of tours. The delux tour includes bus from Waikiki, personal small group tour and pier side lunch. The normal tour is self guided and 1/4 the price. Call 1-877-644-4896 for details. There is now a bridge to Ford Island. This was unthinkable 35 years ago. When the Arizona memorial was being considered, the Navy refused access to Ford Island for tours. I'll be out there in the May/June time frame. First time since '69 when I saw them filming Tora, Tora, Tora. Steve Pelham, NH -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: Gene Larson Subject: Re: Another museum listing The Nautical Research Guild web site has a listing of all known US and many overseas maritime institutions, many in the US with detailed surveys made by members, others with links to the web sites, and others with just addresses. We are continuously expanding this list and the surveys. If anyone has anything to offer in the way of a new or corrected survey please contact me. All are welcome. Our museum survey manager is Jack Silvia. You can also contact him: Jsilvia@aol.com He has taken all the current surveys and has compiled a "master list" of models in museums. This list can be used by model builders to find out where the can see a model they are interested in. Gene Larson, Alexandria, Virginia mailto:genenrg@Naut-Res-Guild.org Nautical Research Guild, Inc. http://www.Naut-Res-Guild.org "A non-profit, tax exempt, educational organization with international membership, dedicated to maritime research and accurate ship model building." -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: John Sheridan Subject: Re: HMS Victory kit >> I'm currently working on the victory to but it's not the plastic kit. The kit I'm doing is from Mantua. A 52"long plank on frame job. I have never built this type of ship before. I needed a challange for once. Scratch building masters of steel navy ships just doesn't make much of an effort as it used too. This kit will keep my busy for the next 5-7 years. << Awwwww, why don't you *really* make things challanging by throwing away that Victory kit, head out into the backyard with nothing but a butterknife and pick-out a nice tree....... John Sheridan -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: "chenyangzhang" Subject: Re: IJN Yamato John When I built my 1/700 Musashi I didn't use any Skywave parts. The 5 inch AA and enclosed 25mm were replaced by Leviathan spares (which I believe Pacific Front carries). This also applies to the aircraft and Type 94 rangefinders. Thinking about it the 6 inch secondarry guns could be replaced by the ones in Skywave set E-5 which deals with cruisers but you'd have to modify the range-finders significantly. What were useful were the etched brass sets, Gold Medal Models in particular and I also used the Eduard set. I think Toms also does one but I've never seen it. Gold Medal do decals for Japanese aircraft (roundels) and they are also included in Skywave and Leviathan sets. Actually the Skywave decal sheet is quite detailed and even contains the warning lines to go on the seaplanes floats. Hope this helps. Chris Langtree -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: ALROSS2@aol.com Subject: Re: RN patrol craft colors The answer is....it depends. Which craft at what point in time? RN coastal forces craft wore a wide variety of schemes throughout the war. Al Ross -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: Ed Grune Subject: HMS Victory -- gold colors Hello all: I haven't had the pleasure of visiting the Victory, but I do have a postcard from a friend who did. I picked up a Revell Germany Victory a few years back while in London. (Its smaller than the 1/146 scale version I've seen offred in the States -- Is it still in production?) Any way -- back to the color subject at hand. Look at the railroad paint section. I used Polly S MEC Harvest Gold (410444). Its a nice warm butterscotch golden yellow. Ed Mansfield (Tiger Town), Texas where a cold front blew through yesterday -- the temperatures are supposed to get no higher than the low seventies. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: "DAVID CLIFFE" Subject: Re: British Patrol Craft Colours Patterns for these are in both Hodges Almark book on RN camouflage and John Lamberts books on Fairmiles. Colours matched via PSM. Incidentally, there is a book out on Algerines which mentions the use of brown and green - I'll look up details and post Mike Cooper Reading UK -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: "DAVID CLIFFE" Subject: Re: HMS Victory Hiya This is of no practical help, but at the Festival of the Sea at Portmouth this August I was delighted to see that one of Victory's 1805 sails was on display. Her main topsail (I think) was stored immediately after the action, and after display in the Victorian period and again (I think) in this century disappeared, only to re-emerege. Its a masive piece of very dirty old canvas, with some bits stolen over the years, but its not often one sees a piece of material of this size and age AND one with french shot holes in it! I note that some recent work has had good things to say about the painting of pre-victorian ships and the use of gold-colour as opposed to actual gold. As ever I don't have the book to hand when I need it, but I can chase up references. For those into 1/300 a primarily wargames trader in the uk is doing drop-dead-gorgeous brigs etc in this scale. Resin hulls, white metal masts etc and PE ratlines and details. The sell lovely 1/300 guns and crews as seperate packs. Again, I'll need to dig out details Mike Cooper (Reading UK, where its bright and very cold. Note that this posting has nothing to do with being nagged by a certain trader at Folkestone last week!) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: Sanartjam@aol.com Subject: Re: SMS Derfflinger Hello SMML, I've seen that the WSW kit of the battlecruiser SMS Lutzow is now available, and I understand a kit of the SMS Derfflinger is planned. Does anyone know if the kit of the Derfflinger will be in a Jutland fit (pole foremast, torpedo nets) or a post-Jutland fit (tripod foremast, no torpedo nets)? Thanks, Art Nicholson -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: The Codes Subject: Re: HMS Victory (colors) Hello list, I've been building the heller kit off on and on for a few years now...I painted her as the cover art on the Anatomy of the ship Victory ...now this has her gun port lids yellow also...From talking to others on this list and seeing the ship years ago myself and some nice paintings of her I now concede that the port lids were black at Trafalgar...Which means I gotta go back and redo them...bummer !@ I added eyebolts to the inner and outer lids and scuttle ports on the lower gun deck lids and this detail will not show up well in black...Oh well! In 1989 I had to put a Swastika on the stern of my Bismark after she was done for over a year when they found her grave in the great deep. I used model master Insignia yellow and toned it down a touch then hit the hull with a flat to dull it slightly...Its still bright, I mean a black hull and yellow strips! It was meant to draw the eye...It says I'm a big 1st class SOL and Im coming to kick your ass! You can always tone the yellow down with thinned artist oils when your done... cheers, now back to rigging those pesky long 12prs on the first gun deck! Bill C. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: SeaPhoto@aol.com Subject: Re: USS Kidd Michael Leonard writes: >> Good grief, I wouldn't wish that on anybody. Visiting the Kidd last year was the only highlight of an otherwise dismal trip to the New Orleans area. << Glad I am not the only person who feels that way! As far as I am concerned, Baton Rouge is far more appealing than the tourist trap that is New Orleans. The Kidd is incredible. What a job that group has done - she is in excellent shape. The attention to detail must be seen to be believed - many compartments are fully restored, even down to personal items like magazines and toiletries. I spent a day photographing her from just about every possible angle - the access is fantastic. You can see her from above, on board, from observation points in front of her, and if you time it right (late summer) even from below - ever wonder what the prop struts on a Fletcher look like? Of course, cleaning that Mississippi mud off of your shoes is a bear At the end of the day, I had burned through about 12 rolls of film, and had a most enjoyable day touring this fine museum ship. I highly recommend a trip there if you can arrange it. Kurt Greiner SeaPhoto Maritime Photography -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: John Snyder Subject: Re: WW-II British patrol craft colours Well, at least some of the MTBs were in Mountbatten Pink (though I don't know whether it was the light or dark version of that colour). I suspect there's someone else on the list who'll have a better answer--if he chimes in.... Mountbatten Pink Dark is in our USN Set 2 paint chip set, and both versions will be in the RN set due by mid-year. John Snyder Snyder & Short Enterprises The Paint Guys -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: John Burch Subject: Re: IJN Yamato and Kaga: best Skywave accessories Regarding 1/700 aircraft decals for IJN aircraft: Gold Medal Models at: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/onetrack/gmsdairi.htm has a 1/700 Scale Aircraft Insignia Decal Sheet (item 700-3D) which includes large (40) and small (140) Hinomaru insignia, as well as British, American, German, French and Russian Insignia for a list price of $6.00. This is a reasonably good decal sheet, but the Japanese insignia do not have the white surround to the insignia, which was common for green painted Japanese naval aircraft. Also the Large Hinomaru seems too large for most carrier borne aircraft. As I have mentioned in a previous post regarding RN/RAF aircraft insignia, I use the Waldron Model Products Sub-Miniature Punch and Die Set with solid color decal sheets to produce any rondel type aircraft insignia, including Hinomaru insignia. I started using this technique about twenty years ago, before 1/700 aircraft insignia were available. As an example, my file card for 1/700 Zero Sen (A6M_) has the following rondel dimensions using the listed the Punch and Die: All gray A/C side- .038 red upper wing- .053 red under wing- .048 red Green painted A/C side- .048 white, .038 red upper wing- .048 white, .038 red under wing- .048 red Using this technique, along with careful application, and use of a good setting solution avoids the out-of-registration problem common to multi-color small scale decals. I also use the Waldron Model Products Sub-Miniature Punch and Die Set to make wheels for 1/700 scale aircraft. In the case of the Zero, I use the .038 punch and die with 10 thousandth styrene sheet to make the landing gear wheels. John Burch Gaithersburg, MD, USA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: Vimieraa@aol.com Subject: Camouflage of HMSs Edinburgh/Belfast/Fiji/Trinidad It is known from an Admiralty document that Edinburgh was painted in the Flotta style of camouflage from about may 1940 to july 1940. Unfortunately there appears to be no photos showing the arrangement of the pattern in this time frame, although the colors that were used ARE known. There is a report that Edinburgh may have been painted overall in Mountbatten Pink for a period in the first half of 1941. In the latter half of that year she definately was in overall medium grey. When the Belfast was painted in her disruptive pattern at the end of 1942 upon completion of refit, the painting instructions stated that the areas of deck under the overhang of the 6" turrets when trained fore and aft should be painted WHITE. Fully detailed color artwork showing the port and starboard patterns of the Fiji and Trinidad in their Admiralty disruptive camouflage will be included in the to be published volume on Royal Navy camouflage and configeration by A Raven. I have heard that the people at White Ensign Models have information as to the details of this forthcoming book. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: Evert-Jan Subject: V Beeks Bismarck That model is the best Bismarck model I have ever seen, and I advise everyone to take a look at it. (It's 1/100). Mr v Beek also knows everything about the ship, and a lot of other Km stuff (a *lot* more than I do, anyway). The propellers of the ship are custom made by a goldsmith! Also a lot of home made etching and rotating turrets, and the model is even capable of playing some march music. He's now working on a Tirpitz which can actually shoot 11 shots per barrel (independent elevation), but it won't be finshed soon; the Bismarck model cost him 8 years to build. He does think that the turrets should be yellow after the 25th though, but nobody can prove that case, seemingly. Evert-jan Foeth From code yellow blizzard zone Michigan (no, that's not funny Dave) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: Ives100@aol.com Subject: Re: Sub hull painting Scott, The USS Nevada is painted dull black from halfway up the hull, and red from halfway down. I usually mix 1 part white with 10 parts flat black for the top part. Modern US subs are done in a dull black finish, that looks almost like a dark, dark charcoal gray. For the red, I use either PollyScale or Floquil (depending on acrylic or enamel) zinc chromate primer color. On the other hand, one of my fellow SubCommittee members, David Merriman, says that Krylon red primer is about right. Dave used to serve on the boats, so he should know. Also, I'm not sure at what point some of the changes in the basic design of the 726 class were made. Most notable was placing additional small decoy tubes abaft the whaleback. I live near the New London Sub Base and Electric Boat, so I've seen the subs both in and out of the water several times. When I went on board the USS Wyoming (SSBN 742) for a tour right after her commissioning, she still had the bright red up to the waterline scheme that the subs are commissioned in. SSNs in drydock at the New London base are always the 1/2 black, 1/2 red scheme. The paint jobs look pretty faded and ratty before they are repainted, and surprisingly, the demarcation line on new paint jobs is not all that even! BTW, you propeller should be bronze, and it should have a pitch such that it turns clockwise, as on the Ohio kit. Some of the older DML kits (Dallas) had an incorrect counterclockwise screw. The prop supplied with the is close, but the blade chord should thin as the distance from the hub increases. I would replace the blades with one of the large 7 bladed photoetch props from Flagship Models. The actual shapes of the props are somewhat debatable, as the Navy shrouds the props when the subs are in drydock to keep the blade shape (which limits cavitation and "blade rate" noise) secret. Sorry, I don't know the Model Master equivalents; I'm not a big ModelMaster paint fan. Please email me if you need further information. For some color pictures of R/C subs, which may give you some hints, please visit the SubCommittee website at: http://www.wolfsong.com/SubCommittee/ Check the photo gallery section. Tom Dougherty -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: "Graham Walker" Subject: Japanese AA guns Hi gang, Does anyone know of a good source of AA guns for WW11 ships? Hey Caroline how about some in your pro range, Yes I have your etch set but my poor eyes and I can only make one gun every two nights my nerves will not stand the strain -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: CapnAgee@aol.com Subject: Re: USS Kidd I must agree...of all the museum ships I've seen over the years, Kidd is definitely the finest there is. The detail is excellent and the bunk lockers filled with memories from other Fletchers wows you. As was said, Baton Rouge and USS Kidd saved my marriage as my wife loved the museums building and facilities. My hat's off to all of the Kidd team and everyone should visit her! Capnagee@aol.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume