Subject: SMML09/03/99VOL479 Date: Tue, 09 Mar 1999 23:53:30 +1100 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: New Subscriber 2: Re: Removing Future floor wax 3: Re: Sergal/Mantua H M S Victory. 4: Armament for HMS Abercrombie. 5: Re: Soliel Royale instructions 6: Armored cruiser OLYMPIA, UNITED STATES photos 7: Re: HMS Victory's colours 8: Re: HMS Victory 9: Portholes 10: Re: Removing Future floor wax 11: Looking for propellor source 12: Re: Flower class corvette 13: Help on italian battleship V. Veneto 14: Re: SMS Derfflinger 15: Marines Editions web site 16: DD 968 AND FUSO BOOK 17: Konishi 1/200 th scale IJN Takao 18: Re: future floor wax removal 19: Re: SMS Derfflinger -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: Heller Special 1/400 From the Naval Base 2: WEM webpages update 3: Internet Modeler -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Subject: New Subscriber Sir I want to get your new letter. Also I am looking to see if they sell or make A ship 1/250 Yamato by Nishino not sure on the spelling. Gary Hi Gary, The correct spelling is Nichimo Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Les Case" Subject: Re: Removing Future floor wax >> I need some help with a very troublesome problem: I decided to try using Future floor wax to clear coat my USS OREGON's hull before applying a waterline decal. Unfortunately, I'm new to the technique and sprayed way too much wax, causing runs. Is there a way to remove the wax without damaging the paint (Testor's enamel, and Floquil Marine paints) underneath? By the time this gets posted the wax will be quite dry. << If Future is still an acrylic product, denatured alcohol should cut it. I don't know what effect the alcohol will have on the model paints, though. If they are both oil-based enamels, the alcohol may not harm them (although I wouldn't scrub too vigorously). If either are lacquer, the alcohol will cut them too. It would be best to paint a test patch on scrap using the same Testor and Floquil products, let them dry and then test the alcohol on them. Also, you might ask the company that makes Future (Johnson Wax?) If a toll-free telephone number isn't listed on the back label, and you live in the U.S., try calling toll-free directory assistance: 1 800 555-1212). Les Case -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: RSlaff2414@aol.com Subject: Re: Sergal/Mantua H M S Victory. You are indeed with a challenge. I have made the kit you are working on by starting it and switching to scratch building the thing. In your case I strongly urge you to purchase the outer skin planks additionally. You can get what you need through Model Expo and/or the Dromedary. The ship is actually black, but ebony doesn't look as good as walnut. The walnut strips supplied are of poor quality compared to what can be purchased, and don't forget about that anchor stock planking at the waist. Use 4mm X 1mm boxwood strips for the gunnels. The planking doesn't exactly match the deckline, but it is the way to go. Get a copy of C. Napean Longridge's "Anatomy of Nelson's Ships". It will be your Bible. Good luck, Randy Slaff -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: "Herron, Chris H" Subject: Armament for HMS Abercrombie. Hi All, I'm currently gathering information and hardware to build a model of the Monitor HMS Abercrombie in her as built condition. Does anybody know of a source for 1/192 scale fittings for RN subjects (there's plenty of US stuff out there !) In particular I need: 15" barrels 4" QF XVI* 2pdr Pom-Pom (Quad and Octuple) 20 mm Oerlikon (Single and Twin) Thanks in advance, Chris Herron. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: LubenLarry@aol.com Subject: Re: Soliel Royale instructions I have this kit and can provide a copy of the instructions. Just provide a snail mail address. Larry Bartlett -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: BSteinIPMS@aol.com Subject: Armored cruiser OLYMPIA, UNITED STATES photos On a recent trip to Philadelphia I was able to spend a day at the Independence Seaport Museum which is located at Penn's Landing on the Delaware river. http://www.libertynet.org/seaport (Or you can look it up on the Nautical Research Guild's excellent Web site, where conceivably every maritime museum in the world is listed, at: http://www.Naut-Res-Guild.org) (So there, Gene Larson! :-) ) The day was as clear and as crisp as a new apple with a blue sky, wonderful warm glow from the morning sun, and was a photographer's delight. As a favor to a friend I shot two rolls of color film of the armored cruiser USS OLYMPIA which is on display there and open to the public. The photos are a "walk-around" of the exterior, port and starboard, and many of the details of the superstructure and above-decks equipment are covered. There are 51 photos in this series. My friend was pleased with the coverage and felt it would be a valuable aid in the construction of his model. It then occurred to me that others might benefit similarly, and so I'm offering copies of these photos, at my cost (no profit), as a sort of "thank you" to all the good folks on this list for all of their contributions which have always been so informative and entertaining. I also have 5 photos of the liner SS UNITED STATES, taken from atop the roof of my rental car, showing the old girl silently rusting and decaying away, but with massive dignity. If you have an interest in these, contact me off list for details. Bob Steinbrunn Minneapolis (where he is "suiting up" to shovel the snow from the driveway, yet once again......) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) To: SMML Subject: Re: HMS Victory's colours Brent Theobald wrote: >> I am getting prepared to begin this beast of a kit. I picked up two cans of the recomended trainer yellow from Humbrol which is used for the hull stripes. This looks awfully bright to me. I thought the hue should be darker, or more orange. What did ya'll do and what do you think of your color choices? << Now, I may really be be on the verge of saying something very silly but I was under the impression that "bright" in 18th century naval parlance meant anything but bright. I believe "bright yellow" was a standard description of yellow ochre crushed and mixed with oil, i.e. something rather dull and certainly closer to a creamy colour than trainer yellow. As a matter of fact, ships with unpainted hulls that were simply varnished were simply described as having "bright sides". For what it's worth, on _much_ smaller ships (1/1200) I actually use WW1 Royal Flying Corps "Clear Doped Linen" from Humbrol, a very dull yellow which looks _much_ brighter when it is encased between areas of black paint. I'm not sure what colour should be used for this scale (Clear Doped Linen probably doesn't work for such a large area) but you really want to experiment and take the contrasting black hull into account. Mike Cooper wrote: >> I note that some recent work has had good things to say about the painting of pre-victorian ships and the use of gold-colour as opposed to actual gold. As ever I don't have the book to hand when I need it, but I can chase up references. << There was a very good article by Jean Boudriot on sailing warship colours in issue 148 of Neptunia, the magazine of the French Naval Museum Association. Actual gold was extremely rarely used on warship (gilding of the figurehead, and even that only for prestigious flagships such as the Victory) and "Naples Yellow", a rather translucent colour brighter (in the modern sense) than Yellow Ochre was used to _simulate_ gilding for large areas. The article had colour prices in France in 1788 which are a useful guide to rarity. Here is an example of the relative costs: - one pound of Yellow Ochre paint (mixed) : 8 sols - one pound of Naples Yellow : 32 sols - 24 sheets of Gold (each 3.5" square) : 45 sols >> For those into 1/300 a primarily wargames trader in the uk is doing drop-dead-gorgeous brigs etc in this scale. Resin hulls, white metal masts etc and PE ratlines and details. The sell lovely 1/300 guns and crews as seperate packs. Again, I'll need to dig out details << This is Langton Miniatures and all of his models are gorgeous (1/300 and 1/1200 Napoleonic, 1/200 WW1 coastal craft and subs, 1/300 and 1/1200 Ancient galleys, 1/600 ACW). He now has a site at http://www.rodlangton.com/ Check out his display models, they are a treat ! Nowfel Leulliot -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: "Millen, Alan R." Subject: Re: HMS Victory My two scents worth (we are SMMLies, right?)(GROANNN: Shane) regarding the yellow on the Victory. See if this rings any bells with anyone else. I bought the Heller Victory within a month of the initial release, and have yet to start anything except look at it and do some research into how I can convert it into something else. Previous to this I had acquired a print by Carl Evers of the USS Constitution, and noticed a yellow stripe, where everyone KNEW it was white! Delving into the question, I found out that previous to 1810, plus or minus, whenever a portion of a ship was painted white, the tar with which the seams were sealed bled through in very short order, yellowing the white. Since it ended up that way, they just painted it a yellow to match, which was called yellow ocher. Humbrol used to have this color, but it has been so long since I bought the paint, they may have discontinued it. Mine is probably unusable by this date. Constitution started out with this yellow ocher, which was almost a buff in color. I had understood, way back then, that it was a standard color used on British ships for their striping, at least until they developed a white paint that was impervious to the tar. So, am I all wet? Huh? Huh? Any input from the Paint Guys?? Please? I will likely be doing her appearance as of the Nile, maybe something else. Or, if I'm truly realistic, I'll admit that I'll probable never get to her, and just sell her off. Whimper. Alan R. Millen -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: "johnston" Subject: Portholes Can someone tell me what diameter the glass is on the standard porthole that would have been used in WW2 on HMS Ariadne and the like. Thanks all, Raynor J. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: ModelerAl@aol.com Subject: Re: Removing Future floor wax wrote: >> Is there a way to remove the wax without damaging the paint (Testor's enamel, and Floquil Marine paints) underneath? << Either household ammonia or rubbing alcohol should remove Future (or any other acrylic finish) without damaging enamel or lacquer based paint. HTH, Al -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: Ross Bruce-QBR000 Subject: Looking for propellor source Greetings all, I'm currently building a 1/144th model of the Coontz class DLG/DDG that I served on, and I'm wondering if anyone knows of a source for ordering a pair of 3 bladed 1 inch diameter screws, right and left handed. The guy who was doing them for Floating Drydock where I had ordered in the past has died so any help will be greatly appreciated. Regards, Bruce Ross -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: BillBramha@aol.com Subject: Re: Flower class corvette >> I am currently in the process of building a Flower Class Corvette and would appreciate any help in locating information on this class. I have looked on the world wide web and basically come up empty. << Check out the Journal of the Nautical Research Guild. They have been running a four-part series on Flower class Corvettes by N. Roger Cole. The concluding article is in the March, 1999, issue and contains an index of sources. You can order back issues at: http://www.Naut-Res-Guild.org. Additionally, the preserved Corvette HMCS Sackville is maintained as a museum ship in Halifax, Nova Scotia. Contact the Canadian Naval Memorial Trust HMCS Sackville, FMP Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada B3K 2X0 (Tel: 902 429-5600). See also "The Last Corvette: HMCS Sackville" in Sea Classics 23:11 (Nov. 1990) and "HMCS Sackville 1941-1985" by Dr. Marc Milner, available at the above address. Proceeds from the sale of the book go to preservation of the ship. Bill Bramhall -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: "Sebastiano Tringali" Subject: Help on italian battleship V. Veneto Dear SMML, I'm an italian aircraft and ship modeller. I have visit your web site. I'm building a diorama of the 1/72 seaplane Ro 43 on the launching catapult of the flying deck of italian battleship Vittorio Veneto. I'm looking for some photos or drawing of the launching catapult, the crane and other details. If you have something about this can you send me it by e-mail or suggest me some book were I can found informations about this. I have built a 1/72 diorama of the italian figther Re 2000 on the seaplane tender G.Miraglia Thank you for all. Sebastiano Tringali Catania (ITALY) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: Steven Rogers Subject: Re: SMS Derflinger I just caught a note about the 1/700 scale Derflinger. There was a comment about another model being produced. Would this? Could this? Possibly be a full hull 1/350 scale kit? Almost too much to hope for! What's the story? Now, how about a 1/350 HMS Tiger!!! Steve Rogers Here's to Big Guns and Steel Ships!!! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: Nowfel Leulliot Subject: Marines Editions web site Hello, Since this publisher's excellent monographs have been mentioned on the list a couple of time and a few people have enquired in the past about the availability of their books, I just wanted to mention that they have a site (in French only but I'm sure they can handle email in English) at: http://www.marines-editions.com/default.asp I don't know how long it's been up but I've only just found it. PS: I've no connection with the publisher apart from liking their books. Nowfel Leulliot -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: Baker Subject: DD 968 AND FUSO BOOK Firstly, before any of you knowledgable SMMLrs blast me, the hull number for ARTHUR W. RADFORD is DD 968, NOT DD 983 as I mistakenly put in my note yesterday (the computer for COMBAT FLEETS is on the second floor, and the E-mail is handled on my wife's computer in the basement). Now to something that is, I hope, positive. Having read the broadside directed at the new USNI PRess/Conway Maritime Press Anatomy of the Ship book about the FUSO, I purchased one this morning while visiting the USNI offices. Well, it's absolutely superb! Rather than condemning this magnficent effort because the scale is wrong on one of the myriad of excellent, beautifully-executed, and carefully researched drawings, would it not have been better to have told the SMML audience that the book, written and drawn for modellers by one of the world's FINEST ship modellers, provides an unbelievable amount of graphic detail about the incredibly complex shapes that constituted the FUSO, especially in her final years. The error in scale, by the way, was the book's author's and not the publishers; publishers know how to make books and can't be expected to be experts on the arcana of ship drawing scales, and they just printed what he, mistakenly, wrote. Picayune error aside, I'd grade the book as a 120 on a scale of 100. A.D.Baker, III -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: SJantscher@aol.com Subject: Konishi 1/200 th scale IJN Takao Hi All, Just browsing through the Warship site and came accross Mr. McGiverns beautiful 1/200th scale model of the Takao. Listed after his name in the credits is what I take to be the kit's manufacture, Konishi. I'm new to the ship side of the hobby, but even so, I've never heard of this company. Is this company still in existance, and is this model still available anywhere? Thanks in advance Steve Jantscher -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: "russell/joyce powell" Subject: Re: future floor wax removal A couple of thoughts on Douglas Bauer's problem with the over application of Future floor wax. I would be wary of applying an amonia-water mix to the Future coating without first testing it on another painted source. If you decide to go this route, try not to rub the surface: gently brush or dip, and kind of slosh it around if possible, then rinse. If you have to rub the wax off I'd REALLY fear for the paint. If, however, the paint is only dulled, a clear over-spray: more future, matt, flat, etc., will set you right. I'd recommend trying to sand down the irregularities. Smooth out the waxed surface. It will look lousy, but if you can get it flat you can then reapply the Future and watch the color come back like magic. Try to use super-fine paper on the last sanding pass. Regarding the use of Future: it is really easy to over do it. Keep it thin. Before I spray or dip the stuff I have one burner on the stove on low heat. If I get runs, and I usually do, I hustle over to the stove, hold the "futured" piece over the burner, and aggressively move it around so that the wax doesn't accumulate in one place. Within seconds the heat shrinks and sets the wax. I've had some pretty hopeless looking runs disappear using this method. Hair dryers are also good for this work, but manipulating something as large as you are talking about with one hand, and holding a dryer in the other would be a bit much. Finally, I've used either alcohol, or water to thin Future. Both work. I don't know if any of this will help you. Maybe somebody has a better idea. Not all is lost. Good luck. Russell -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: "Pletscher-Lenz-Schneider" Subject: Re: SMS Derfflinger Originally, WSW had planned to issue the DERFFLINGER kit in a post-Jutland version. But many modellers were asking to build her in the Jutland fit. Further, it is much easier to convert this version into a later fit with the tripod foremast than vice verse. So WSW finally switched over to build the DERFFLINGER, too, in the Jutland configuration. WSW is also planning to release the third battlecruiser of this class, SMS HINDENBURG, in the future. By the way, if you want to show LUTZOW or DERFFLINGER as they fought in the Battle of Jutland, don't forget to paint their aft funnels red. The High Seas Fleet used colored funnels as recognition signs. To prvent them from being watched and reported by spies, the funnels were not painted as long as the ships were visible from land, and they were repainted gray before returning inti port. Falk Pletscher -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Shaya Novak" Subject: Heller Special 1/400 From the Naval Base Pre-Release Sale Special Heller is releasing two kits this April that will be sold out quickly. We are now taking orders to guarantee your ship either the 1/400 Scharnhorst or 1/400 Ch. de Gaul. You will not be billed until the ship is sent to you. Reserve now for these Heller Releases. To purchase these fine kits goto: www.modelshipbuilding.com A501 Ch. de Gaul New Fr. Carrier 1/400fh 31.95 DC302 Scharnhorst WWII Hvy Cruiser 1/400 31.95 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Caroline Carter" Subject: WEM webpages update NEW! Please check below for the addition of Ian Ruscoe's 1/700 HMS Edinburgh diorama. http://whiteensignmodels.simplenet.com/edin700/edin700.htm UPDATE TO THE 1/700 KIT PAGES (NEW SUBJECTS ADDED) http://dialspace.dial.pipex.com/town/avenue/xdt22/kits700.htm UPDATED COMPLETE WEM "OWN" PRODUCT LISTINGS http://dialspace.dial.pipex.com/town/avenue/xdt22/main.htm With full listings of new kits, aircraft, etched brass and PROFESSIONAL 700 and 600 items. and NEW! Full lists of other maunfacturers plastics, resins, Gold Medal etched brass sets, naval videos, and a huge inventory of naval books, together with Plastic Ship Modeller magazine details http://dialspace.dial.pipex.com/town/avenue/xdt22/plist1.htm The last 2 are a brief overview but are pretty large files so will take a while to download.. however, these files can be saved to your own computer for ease of browsing. Best Regards, Caroline Carter http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/white.ensign.models -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "Kenneth H. Goldman" Subject: Internet Modeler The management of Internet Modeler has decided to do without a Ships Editor. This is to inform you good people that I no longer have anything to do with that magazine. Ken Goldman THE WALRUS AND THE CARPENTER http://www.wman.com/~khgold/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume