Subject: SMML27/03/99VOL497 Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 02:09:53 +1000 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: Fletchers for the Nats and 1/700 Tugs 2: Re: Moral Equivalency 3: Morality 4: Re: Anti-Skid Mats 5: Re: To rig or not to rig? 6: Re: Great White FLeet 7: SWATH 8: Swedish stealth 9: Re: 1/700 LPH kits..Correction 10: Fw: [navydestroyersailors] More on USS Little 11: Liberty models 12: Re: USS Washington 1944-45 13: Missouri to Iowa conversion 14: BRITISH WARSHIP DESIGN BOOK SERIES 15: Re: HAZELWOOD 16: Re: DASH Drones 17: Responses to various postings 18: Re: morality/Harris 19: Re: Modern war, Sumner/Gearing kits, books. 20: Re: USS WASHINGTON 21: Nowgorod 22: Re: Gambier Bay book 23: Model ship auctions 24: Aussie naval flags WW2 25: USS Arizona questions 26: USS O'Bannon -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS Note from Shane, Hi gang, In regards to the moralisation thread, I think we should perhaps leave it here & let it RIP. Whilst it makes interesting reading, I think we've gone a bit far off the original post (remember that?) about the magazine article. While morality & modelling do go together, this is primarily a ship modelling list. Also, since we are approaching the 500th issue of SMML, how about you all make me work harder for that issue & lets put out a bumper SMML to mark the occasion. Shane - who mourning the changeover from daylight saving to normal time & not looking forward to winter & reading all the weather reports from the Northern hemisphere -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Edward F Grune" Subject: Re: Fletchers for the Nats and 1/700 Tugs >> I'd like to participate in the Fletcher build - are there any "rules"? And as I can't make it is anyone willing to take it with? Also I'd mentioned earlier that I'm doing a 1/700 Floating Drydock dio-are there any suitable 1/700 tugs-that's assumeing that tugs are used to help position the ship? << Rules -- I think it was Lee Marvin in the Dirty Dozen who after calling time to explain the rules and then cleaning the other guys clock, said "... there are no rules in a knife fight". ;-) All seriousness aside, the rules are ... #1 Have fun with it. #2 Meet minimum IPMS USA requirements. #3 Subject is a 1/700 scale FLETCHER class destroyer. Your choice of subject -- early version round-bridge ... late version square bridge ... post-war FRAM ... US Navy ... Foreign navy ... ASW enhancements ... AA measures ... Matchbox kit ... Skywave kit ... Tamiya kit ... resin kit ... plain paint job ... wild dazzle camoflage ... sparse detail ... whole hog detail ... see Rule 1. When this subject was kicked around the list after last summer's Nationals -- the goal was to attract attention and generated interest in model shipbuilding. If we can put two dozen Fletchers on the 1/700 Ships table then we may be able to attract attention to our portion of the hobby. Furthermore, if we can can fill the table - then we may be able to generate a category split and increase the number of awards available to ship models. The potential of a future SMML group entry was also mentioned in discussions. However, it was put off until we can prove that we can work together to fulfill the Fletcher project. As far as getting it there -- if you pack it for shipping and can get it to someone on the list who is going they will most certainly take it for you and enter it. Tugs -- I believe that Hasegawa had a Tugger set with various IJN tugs and barges. The tugs are appropriate for most all pre-WWII through post war dioramas. I think Jim Shirley had a modern tug set. Ed Mansfield, TX -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "James M. Pasquill, II" Subject: Re: Moral Equivalency Someone wrote: >> I think that the start of the "modern warfare" decried in these posts was actually during the American Civil War. Sherman's March to the sea was similar to the Allied bombing campaigns in that it was intended to destroy the production capability of the South to end the war at the "front lines". This was probably the first time in warfare that an enemy's productive capability was destroyed before the enemy was beaten in battle. << I think your comments aptly point out the futility of continuing this conversation here. One could just as easily point out that the seige of a castle in medieval Europe (where most of the cities population would be hold up) was no different, the productive capacity to make war having been destroyed by burning the farms and shops while pushing the population into the walled castle. A millenium before, the Greek leader Alexander took much of the Asian continent burning, looting, and killing villagers along the way. When Alexander was wounded in a battle in India he retaliated against the native population, killing tens of thousands. The point is that your discussion is pointless in the context of overall world history without a discussion of man's human nature, which I don't think we should get into here. Nothing was different in the 20th century except the technology that we used to wage war. Thank God that a slightly more level headed group of the human species in societies that tend to put constraints on extremists and have strong enough democracies to avoid dictatorship had some of this technology first. If anyone is interested in continuing this interesting conversation write to me off the list. Jim -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: Mark McKellar Subject: Morality >> I agree completely with Bill Gruner that this modeling forum is NOT the place to discuss the philosophy or morality of WW2. Here we talk modeling, not politics. << I agree as well. Modeling is a way for me to unwind and relax (even if it means getting stresses about bending P/E rails etc..). Let's keep the discussion at least near the target Mark -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: Kurt Van Dahm Subject: Re: Anti-Skid Mats Put me down for a set of the 1/350 decals for the Tamiya Fletcher. Kurt Van Dahm Westmont, IL -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: "mkrumrey" Subject: Re: To rig or not to rig? Back in the early '80's when my eyesight and grasp were a bit more acute, I modeled in 1/700 and "dabbled" in 1/350. There was no photo etch available at that time,at least to the best of my knowledge, so add an extra dimension of authenticity to the model, I rigged them using stretched sprue. I got fairly good at it too. In 1/700 spru as the advantage over invisible thread in that it can be cut to length, and applied with a drop of white glue (aka Elmers). I know there is thin brass rod that is available in the train departements of hobby shops that would probably work just as well. If the modeller has gone to the effort of adding photo etch railings and radar, the rigging would really make the model come "alive". Mark Krumrey New Richmond WI Anxiously awaiting the sighting of the first Robin -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: "mkrumrey" Subject: Re: Great White FLeet A recent issue of Naval History Magazine had an article on the Great White Fleet and its impact on the world. Had some neat color photos from glass slides of Sailors on Liberty in various parts of the world, to include the Sphinx. All the lads were wearing their dress blues, and it is apparent that their shoes were shined to a high gloss. What a departure from the dress codes of today. Imagine riding a camel out to the sphinx in a heavy wool dress blue Navy uniform. Mark Krumrey New Richmond WI -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: "efoeth" Subject: SWATH >> This type of vessel, also known as a semi-submersible, has very low roll and pitch responses but a large heave response. They've been used a lot for offshore drilling, crane platforms, and emergency services (fire fighting). << SWATH (As far as I know only the platforms are called semisubs, and the ships are not) vessels have a very low waterplane area, so when a wave passes alongsides the columns, little extra buoyancy is created, so the ship's response to waves is low (heave is thus small). However, due to this low waterplane area, the response *time* is long, so the heave frequencies are generally low. Also, the magnitude of offshore semisub's heave can be dimished by designing the semisub's underwater shape in such a way that the movement due to waves is in the opposite direction of the waves vertical forces( Due to the orbital movement of the waterparticles). This is called cancellation. As the semisubs or swaths generally like to heave in low frequencies, their response to higher frequecy waves, as normally encountered at sea, is very small, making them stable platforms. The small waterplane area makes the stability of SWATH vessels in the longitudunal direction very small (In contrast to the semisub platforms). Evert-Jan Foeth -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: Mike.Dunn@dresdner-bank.com Subject: Swedish stealth Frederik wrote : >> Having read all on comments on the Se shadow I might just add that Kockums are currently building on coastal corvettes for The Royal Swedish Navy. The class, known as Visby-class, are approx 72m loa and designed from keel up as a stealth design. It is also designed entirely out of kevlar and carbon. Designed speed is in the 35 kts range and among others the ship will feature integrated radars as well as a gun with a barrel that's retracted into the gun mount when not in use. http://www.karlskronavarvet.se/ << Yeah, that's her, the one I was on about the other day! Very nice ship she is too. Just wish that the programme had covered more of her than it did (about a 5-minute spot). Why can't the RN have a test vessel like this? Mike -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: Bill Gruner Subject: Re: 1/700 LPH kits..Correction The latest issue of Plastic Ship Modeler, in the resin kit review section, states that the new Waveline LPH kits of 1/700 Iwo Jima and Okinawa are "reported to be re-issues of previously issued SEALINE kits".... Not true!.... Firstly, Sealine never issued LPH kits, it was P&I, a now defunct Pitroad company. Secondly, the Waveline kits are all new patterns and moldings of very high, typical Waveline quality and even include new resin helos. Thanks, Bill Gruner Pacific Front Hobbies http://www.pacificfront.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: "Shaya Novak" Subject: Fw: [navydestroyersailors] More on USS Little >> From: Randy Schuldt Subject: [navydestroyersailors] More on USS Little I thought the list might be interested in a follow-up to my earlier story of the Little (APD4) and Colhoun (APD2): The US Navy has a tradition of naming later vessels after ships who have been lost in battle. Two of the Fletcher class DD's were to carry these illustrious names. The Fletcher's were probably the best destroyers to come out of WWII. The were just over 2,000 tons and were armed with 5-5"/38 DP, 5-40MM twin, and 11-20MM guns. They also carried 10 torpedoes in two quintuplet mounts and were capable of 37 Knots. Unfortunately, both the new USS Little (DD803) and Colhoun (DD801) were to suffer a similar fate as their namesakes. The Colhoun saw first action during the invasion of Iwo Jima. On 1 March 1945, she got too close to shore and was struck by three 80MM shells from a shore battery, killing 1 sailor and wounding 16. After undergoing repairs, she participated in the invasion of Okinawa. There she was one of the first US Naval vessels to experience the Floating Chrysanthemum (a massed Kamikaze attack). On 6 April, Colhoun was on radar picket duty with the USS Bush (DD529). Between 0230 and 0600, she escaped damage following eleven separate bombing attacks. At around 1500, Bush was subjected to attack by five kamikaze, one of which managed to break through very effective AA fire and crash amidships. Colhoun raced to Bush's aid, bringing her CAP (Combat Air Patrol) of four planes with her. Colhoun arrived to find Bush dead in the water as 15 more Japanese planes were approaching. Colhoun interposed herself between the attackers and her stricken sister. Twelve of the planes broke off to attack Colhoun. She managed to down the first three before a fourth managed to crash into Colhoun's main deck. She managed to maintain a speed of 15 Knots and was getting the fire under control when three more Kamikaze attacked. Colhoun shot down one, one missed and was shot down by Bush, but the third hit the forward fire room. All this action took place in about fifteen minutes. Eight minutes later, three more planes attacked-one on each bow and one on her quarter. By this time, power had been lost to the 5" guns and they had to be trained and pointed by hand. This is so arduous that the operators had to be relieved every two minutes. One of the Japanese planes was splashed by Colhoun, one missed and the third crashed the Number 3 gun mount. Bush broke in two and sank at 1830, with 94 killed. Colhoun's crew valiantly fought to save her in spite of having no power. At 2320, it was obvious that she couldn't be saved and her remaining crew were taken off. Cassin Young (DD793) then sank her with gunfire. The Colhoun lost 35 killed and 21 wounded. Some might say that the destroyers who were named Colhoun and Little were jinxed. But I think they represent the finest tradition of the "Little Boys". They did what they were designed to do. Go in harm's way to protect the fleet. Any US sailor on a man-of-war knows what his or her job is-defend the United States, if necessary with his or her life. All of us owe a tremendous debt of gratitude to the bluejackets on ships like the Little's and the Colhoun's. As the Navy saying goes, "Well done!" Reference: History of United States Naval Operations in World War II, Volume XIV: Victory in the Pacific 1945, by Samuel Eliot Morison. United States Naval Vessels, 1 September 1945: The Official United States Navy Reference Manual, edited by Samuel Loring Morison. Regards, Randy << -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: Ophelia Subject: Liberty models Hi, Does anyone know how to get in touch with Liberty models? Preferably via the net but phone or fax will do. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: CBNJBB62@aol.com Subject: Re: USS Washington 1944-45 Dear Yohan: The battleship Washington wore measure 22 camouflage from 1944 to 1945. Good luck with your project. Craig Bennett -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: Louis Costanzo Subject: Missouri to Iowa conversion My story begins with a Tragedy. I had recently completed Tamiya's 1:350 Missouri, box stock, as the flagship of my 1:350 fleet. Unfortunately, that supremecy was challenged by my cat, who promptly capsized it (aargh, must shut door...) I was preparing to rebuild it, as all of the masts, crane and catapults had gone bye-bye. Then in an on-line store I saw Tom's Modelworks 1:350 Iowa Conversion kit! I decided to order it, naiively thinking that it was simply an Iowa-class detail kit (photo-ettch and what not) Low and behold, when it came, I realized it was a conversion to USS Iowa! My question to you is, is it worth it? I'm quite pleased having MO, but Iowa is a rarer subject for models, it would be an interesting project. But is it worth the trouble? It would involve tearing down the forward superstructure and bridge completely, and replacing it with Iowa's resin components. The #2 gun tub needs to be changed too, as does the radar (but It's trashed so that doesn't matter) Since it displays Iowa in 1943, what else would I need to change? (my MO appears to be from 1945) What paint scheme would be appropriate? (something simple, I hope since painting an assembled ship is not easy) Would it be easier to do a late-war Iowa and keep my current paint scheme?(forget the measure #, is sea blue hull, gray upper bow and superstructure, blue horizontal surfaces) thanks in advance, I would greatly appreciate any help you can offer. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: Baker Subject: BRITISH WARSHIP DESIGN BOOK SERIES The books for sale at Hamilton's for $15.95 are a tremendous bargain. D.K. Brown is a world-famous naval architect and historian, the former deputy head of the British naval ship design organization at Bath. The books themselves present the texts of the official Admiralty histories of WW II-era RN designs that were written just after World War II (alas, as those of you who have read Chris Wright's introduction to the design history of the U.S. INDEPENDENCE-class CVLs in the latest WARSHIP INTERNATIONAL know, our own NAVSEA (then BUSHIPS) had no systematic history program, hence the gratitude we should all feel toward Norman Friedman for his books on the subject). Anway, D.K. Brown has annotated the official histories, which are presented with excellent and well-reproduced photography and reproductions of Admiralty "As Fitted" plans (like our own Booklets of General Plans, only generally much better drawn). Everything from battleships to service craft is covered in the three volumes, all of which I strongly recommend acquiring. Why three rather slender volumes instead of one fat one? It has to do with the British tax system, my English publisher friend told me. By the way, ANYTHING by D.K. Brown can be taken as absolutely expert and authoritative. Cheers A.D. Baker,III -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: Baker Subject: Re: HAZELWOOD HAZELWOOD was the trials ship for the DASH system and differed signficantly from the handful of FRAM II FLETCHERs that were equipped to carry the production versions. HAZELWOOD, which I went aboard when at OCS at Newport in 1963, retained her low-bridge FLETCHER configuration forward, including both forward 5-in. 38-cal. single mounts. The fantail 5-in. mount was also retained, making her the only unit of her class in USN service ever to carry just three 5-in mounts (one unit transferred to Japan did, but that's another story). Abaft the stack was a hangar that was larger than the later "standard" DASH hangar, and the flight deck was considerably longer than that on FRAM conversions of GEARINGs, SUMNERs, and FLETCHERs. A good place to look for a photos would be in a contemporary JANE'S FIGHTING SHIPS. My brother-in-law, as DASH control officer on a SUMNER, managed to lose three DASH drones in six weeks; the problem would come during the hand-off from CIC control to the DASH control officer on the actual flight deck, and the drone would either go unstable or head off for the horizon. Oddly enough, of the 17 DASHes bought by Japan, none was ever lost. Once the USN abandonned the DASH program (and a great many of the ships equipped to carry it never, ever even had the birds aboard), the hangars made great storerooms, movie theaters, places to store the skipper's car, etc. A.D. Baker, III -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: JSTBALL@aol.com Subject: Re: DASH Drones I was on the USS Cone (DD 866) in 1967. We lost both DASH drones. One was lost when it broke free of its flotation device (which was released from the top of the rotor mast) and sank to the bottom. The other was lost when, after making a perfect landing on a rolling deck when the deck was parallel to the horizon, the ship continued its roll and the thing slid over the side. Jeff Ball Carmel, CA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: Marc Flake Subject: Responses to various postings 1) I have photos of the U.S.S. Washington in April 1944 and April 1945 showing her in MS. 22. 2) Fort Worth (which lays twenty two miles to my northwest) was not insignificant at the time of the Cold War. It was a SAC base with B-36s, B-58s and then B-52s. 3) Less moralizing, more modelizing. 4) I have two Fletchers, a Skywave in MS 31 (DD 541 Yarnall) and a Tamiya in MS 12 (DD-445 Fletcher) that are not built to what I would consider contest quality, specifically, no PE. Are we looking for minimum standards for IPMS? 5) Rigging. I wouldn't recommend rigging anything smaller than 1/350 scale. But that's my own personal preference. Marc in Mansfield (Texas) (Home to a strategially unimportant Mitsubishi chemical plant) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: "russell/joyce powell" Subject: Re: morality/Harris Hello fellow modelers, pundits, historians, philosophers, Apparently when I referred to Gen. Harris as a "cad" my reeking sarcasm, and attempt at dark humor was misconstrued by at least one person. It was my intent to show how ridiculous it is to argue morality in reference to war on SMML of all forums: with its limitations and purported objectives. Over the years I have learned that it is foolish to make blanket statements about ANYONE. That was the point of my absurd, self-deprecating remark. It should by now be apparent to all readers of SMML that feelings run deep in these areas. Some people are a bit thin skinned, with good reason, and easily impassioned by what others say regarding these matters. This is MY last hurrah on the subject. Let us keep to the modeling of ships. Now, how about that Styx? What a river. Regards, Russell Powell -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: dhjonespsm@juno.com Subject: Re: Modern war, Sumner/Gearing kits, books. Grouping several answers here: >> was actually during the American Civil War. Sherman's March to the sea was similar to the Allied bombing campaigns in that it was intended to destroy the production capability of the South to end the war at the "front lines". << I totally agree and was on the verge of posting something similar. The US Civil War was the first "modern war" in several respects. It was the first where logistics were at least as important as the numbers of troops. The dominance of northern railroads was decisive and allowed the Union to concentrate forces and move entire armies with an efficiency that the south could only envy. Recently there was some discussion about the armor on southern ironclads. The majority used "railroad iron" - otherwise known as railroad tracks! There are instances where entire rail lines were ripped up to provide materials for armored ships, then in a few instances the needed parts to complete them could not be brought to the construction site because the railroad no longer existed. Oops.... talk about bad planning.... >> On many occassions I've heard people saying how Skywave really 'screwed up' with the shape of the hulls for their 1/700 Sumner and Gearing kits. I took a look at my Sumner and didn't see anything wrong. So where's the 'screw up' on these infamous kits? << It looks ok at first when looking at the hull mounted on its sprue. However the large pouring gates on either sid of the huil blocks the view of the sheer line and helps disguise the problem. Remove the hull molding from the carrier sprues and look at it in profile. You will see that it does indeed have two straight angles that intersect rather than a continiously curved sheerline. It is even worse than the Liberties. >> The latest E R Hamilton supplement included this description: Submarines, Escorts, and Coastal Forces, Vol. 2 - The Design and Construction of British Warships, 1939-1945. Ed. by D K Brown Extensive coverage of the principal achievements of each design, together with detailed line drawings. Covers submarines, corvettes and frigates, fleet minesweepers, and motor torpedo boats. Well illus., line Hamilton is selling this for $14.95 plus $3 shipping (US). Can anybody recommend this one? << I reviewed this, and the other two volumes in this series, in PSM 18. For the price it is a steal. I would recommend that you get it by all means. Daniel Jones Plastic Ship Modeler magazine -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: John Snyder Subject: Re: USS WASHINGTON In 1944, she was wearing Measure 22 camouflage. John Snyder Snyder & Short Enterprises The Paint Guys -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 21) From: Pieter Cornelissen Subject: Nowgorod I just received my first modelkrak kit, the russian 'round battleship' Nowogorod. Is is a nice kit (very small though, about 5 centimeters in diameter). Problem is, my only reference is line drawing in Bjorn Landstrom's 'Skeppet' and the colour guide is in polish! Does anyone know the translation of the following colour guide; BIALY - nabudowki, szalupy ZOLTY - kominy bez gomej czesci CZARNY - burty, gome czesci kominow NATURANE DREWNO - polklad Any information on other references is also most welcome. Pieter Cornelissen Delft The Netherlands Which was about 2 days from WEM headquarters this time. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 22) From: "F J Hueso" Subject: Re: Gambier Bay book >> Does anyone know where I can find Anatomy of a ship series: The Aircraft Carrier Gambier Bay Any leads would be real helpful, << Conway is listing the book in the last catalogue I just received, at £20.00 (about $32.50) If someone is interested, I can e-mail the order form. You can also reach them at http://www.batsford.com. where it is listed too. I searched Floating Drydock and USNI sites without result. BTW following the recent "Fuso incident" I must say that I received, as Model Shipwright subscriber, a letter from Batsford apologising about the delays caused by the Batsford-Brassey's merger. It's a detail when we are accustomed to see on RMS and elsewhere complaints about poor customer service. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 23) From: CokerRE@aol.com Subject: Model ship auctions For those of you interested in more traditional ship models I offer these observations from the maritime auction field. For the past several years the New York auction houses, mainly Christie's East, have been offering a lot of ocean liner models of various sorts from the museum quality type to those used by travel agents. Some of the interesting ones have been the foreign liners, French, Italian, etc. They usually go at reasonable prices. Of course the more popular liners like Titanic, Queen Mary, etc. bring higher prices. However, regardless, the prices at auction pale by comparison to the cost of special ordering one by commission. At an auction this past February two 1/8"=1' scale models of HMS Lord Nelson and an earlier turreted battleship by the English model builder John Haynes fetched over $12,000 each, one of the highest prices I have seen for a non-sailing ship model. These models were top quality museum models. By comparison a year earlier a four foot museum quality model of an American clipper ship, fully rigged, top detailing, with glass case fetched only $3,500. So auction prices can vary depending on who is there to compete for a given item. Needless to say ship models bring poor prices at auction compared with paintings. At the same February auction two collections of Navis and Neptun 1/1250 scale metal models brought less than $500 for what sells for almost $2,000 at retail in Germany. These was some junk in the auction that managed to go for a few dollars including an old Ideal balsa kit of the liner America that brought almost $500. Chrisite's Amsterdam is having an auction April 20 with some ship models including a Spruance class DD-963 on 1/16" scale for $1,000 to $1,500, a Belknap class CG-31 for less than $1,000, some yacht models, and a few sailing ships -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 24) From: Darren Scannell Subject: Aussie naval flags WW2 Hi Shane, Just a quick question that you should be able to answer. I am making up some 1/96 scale WWII flags for the guys in our club and I wanted to know what the Aussies used on their ships in WWII. Did you have a Naval jack? In Canada, I believe we used the British White Ensign and the Canadian Flag at the time as the Jack when in port, was it similar in Oz? Thanks Darren Hi Darren, I'm posting this because I'm not sure of the answer. I think you're on the right track. IIRC, the RAN didn't get it's own Ensign until after WW2 & we flew the White Ensign in WW2. Shane - Who has yet to build an RAN ship & will do something to rectify that this year, so I can answer some of these RAN questions. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 25) From: THENRYS@aol.com Subject: USS Arizona questions Greetings : I've been lurking for several days and now feel fully qualified for my first posting. I am primarily an aircraft builder but do dabble in ships and submarines occasionally. I am contemplating a USS Arizona project and have a couple of questions. First of all, I am aware of the Tom's Modelwork's kit of the Arizona in 1941 fit. Does anyone have any experience, comments, praise, or criticisms of the kit? Are there any other kits of the Arizona in 1941 config in large scale or are any upcoming? Should I stick with upgrading the old Revell kit? Second, does anyone have any suggestions on references? I have the Stilwell book, and have collected pics from various other books & sources. I figured on ordering a set of plans to help with the build - any suggestions on those? I know I've hit you all with a laundry list, but any help would be greatly appreciated. Todd Henry -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 26) From: THENRYS@aol.com Subject: USS O'Bannon Oh yeah, I did have another question. Does anyone know were I might find pics or info on the USS O'Bannon as she might have appeared during the first Naval Battle of Guadalcanal. I plan to build the 1/350 Tamiya kit as a warm up to the Arizona project. I did find one line in the Hammel book on the subject that stated that the aft AA mount was unique to the O'Bannon vs. other early Fletchers in that she had a twin 40mm vs. a quad 40 (I hope I've got that right as my notes are downstairs). Again any help or suggestions are appreciated. Todd Henry -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume