Subject: SMML28/03/99VOL498 Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 00:03:38 +1000 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Nautical humour 2: SMS Emden Plans 3: Re: 1/700 LPH kits..Correction 4: Decals 5: Re: Getting Models to the nats 6: Re: Styx 7: Re: IOWA 8: USS O'BANNON 9: Re: Australian WW2 ensigns 10: Re: Sea Shadow 11: Re: British warship design 12: Tamiya POW 13: Gluing Guide web page 14: Re: Arizona Kit 15: Shane 16: SKYWAVE SHEER 17: Re: USS O'Bannon 18: Railroad anchor chain 19: USS The Sullivans 20: Tamiya-Con 21: Re: Semi-sub -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: IPMS contest in Minneapolis -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Keith Butterley Subject: Nautical humour Hi guys, Ok off topic, but it is ship related. I also don't know how true this is, it could be just one of those urban legends. Here goes. The USS Nimitz and other USN ships plus some RCN - I know its not the RCN anymore but as long as our ships our prefaced with HMCS- destroyers were on NATO maneuvers off the Canadian eastern seaboard. The Canadian ships had been escorting the Nimitz and had been doing and had been doing some ASW work around her in some bad weather, when the Nimitz spotted a light in front of her, due to the vilolent nature of the ASW work she was no longer sure what ship it was. The messages went something like this. USS Nimitz: Canadian vessel please alter course. Canadian vessel: Refused USS Nimitz:: Canadian vessel this is a direct order, alter course. Canadian vessel: Order refused. USS Nimitz: Canadian vessel this is the USS Nimitz, alter course immediately or you will be rammed. Canadian vessel: USS Nimitz, this is Canadian Lighthouse No. 141, your move. Keith Butterley President & CEO The Weak-Eyed and All Thumbs Shipbuilding Co. PS I hear Viagra is a year old, so do we put one LARGE candle on the cake? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: DKrakow105@aol.com Subject: SMS Emden Plans To anyone interested in building an accurate model of the SMS Emden, a warning: most reference sources on this ship are inaccurate. The Dean's Marine 1:96 kit is plain junk, the Warship Profile measurements, drawings and color scheme are inaccurate (the source of much misinformation on the Emden ever since). There is really only one authoritative set of SMS Emden plans. They are by Peter Gunther Huff who is unquestionably THE authority on the Emden, as well as a first-rate professional draftsman and model-builder extrodinaire. The plans (in 1:200 or 1:100) and his book (which contains all known existant detail photos of the Emden) are the result of 15 years scrupulous research. Revel's kit is based on Huff's plans and is generally accurate. The plans are available from Christian Schmidt in Munich Germany. Go to the "features" section at www.warship.simplenet.com. Gunther's 1:100 scale model is featured there in all its glory, and there is a link to Christain Schmidt's website for ordering information. Cheers Dave Krakow Frankfurt Germany -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: dhjonespsm@juno.com Subject: Re: 1/700 LPH kits..Correction >> The latest issue of Plastic Ship Modeler, in the resin kit review section, states that the new Waveline LPH kits of 1/700 Iwo Jima and Okinawa are "reported to be re-issues of previously issued SEALINE kits".... Not true!.... << The key word here is REPORTED - in fact that information came from this list. Some months back a contributor posted that he (I do not remember who at this point) purchased the kit and that it was identical to the previously issued kits from P & I. Since I had not seen the new Waveline kit myself I used the information but I did attribute it to a secondary source. Apparently the information was not correct. Sorry, Bill - I already promised you a correction in the next PSM. Apparently I have to do it here also. Daniel Jones -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: "mkrumrey" Subject: Decals I would be game for a set or two of the Decals that Duane Fowler asked about on the SMML the other day. Would also recommend flight deck markings for 1/350, 1/700 Aircraft Carriers. Specifically "Foul" lines, and all the little elevator and electrical hookup markings that are abundant on carriers and the big deck "Gators". BTW; Is this the Same Duane Fowler of "Fowler Aviation" decal fame of a few years ago? Mark Krumrey New Richmond WI. Awaiting Robin, and daylight saving time return. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: Getting Models to the nats For those of you who want to get your Fletchers to the Nats. but can't find someone take them, I have a solution. You can carefully pack and send them to the hotel (check with the hotel first) c/o who will be there to pick them up. Just include an UPS, FedEx, etc, filled out return mail slip in the box. Once the contest is over, the person who picks up the models can make arrangements with the hotel to ship them back. If you contact the Chairman of the convention, I'll bet he will arrange for one of the shipping companies to be there on a set day. Most Nationals do just that for all the stuff modelers buy in the vendors room and can't take back all the stuff on the plane. You will need to put the model on a wood base and make a plastic cover for it. This will virtually insure no damage to the model in transit. Since the Fletchers are small, they won't cost much to send. Take your model to anyplace that does packing and shipping like Mail Boxes, Etc., UPS etc. Have the model placed in a box with about 1" of Styrofoam peanuts all the way around it. Have that box placed inside a larger box with the same clearance of peanuts to protect it from shock. I have shipped lots of models this way and nothing has ever been damaged. Be sure to have the person who picks them up to save the packing materials to return the model to you. DON'T FORGET TO INCLUDE THE RETURN POSTAGE! One last thing. Include a check with your model for the proxy entry fee. Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. http://www.okclive.com/flagship/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: "John S. Platt" Subject: Re: Styx Hi Gang What do you mean Styx the river, what about the band! Sorry Shane, back in the cupboard for me. As you've entered your Winter down there I can tell you that here in Brasted, in good old Pommyland, the sun is high in the sky and I am writing this by the pool with a drink. John S. Platt P.S. I am also telling porky pies! Hi John, Gee, I never would have known you were telling porkies ;-þ. Mainly because in "ol blighty" the sun is never high in the sky, unless off course it's covered by clouds ;->>. Or at least it appeared that way in "summer" 92, when we were over there. Shane - 20C & still wearing shorts -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: John Snyder Subject: Re: IOWA Well, if you do decide to convert MO to IOWA, you're in luck regarding the paint scheme: your MO is in Measure 22, which is exactly what IOWA was wearing in '43. John Snyder Snyder & Short Enterprises The Paint Guys -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: John Snyder Subject: USS O'BANNON Todd: I have a copy of _Action Tonight: The Story of the American Destroyer O'BANNON in the Pacific_, published in 1945. It has one good photo of her port side, taken from abaft the beam, that shows her Measure 12 (mod) camo scheme. It also appears (emphasis appears) to show a 1.1" mount aft, rather than a twin 40mm, but it's hard to tell for sure (and it's been a long while since I read it). There's also a later bows-on shot of her in Roscoe's _U.S. Destroyer Operations in World War II_, in which she appears to be in Measure 21. O'BANNON has always been of interest to me, too, since she was one of the 3 DDs involved in the Battle of Vella Lavella, in which my uncle's ship, SELFRIDGE, lost her bows to a Long Lance. John Snyder Snyder & Short Enterprises The Paint Guys -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: "chenyangzhang" Subject: Re: Australian WW2 ensigns These followed the RN practice during World War 2. It is also interesting that a lot of the officers were also RN rather than RAN. Chris Langtree -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: Burl Burlingame / Pacific Monograph Subject: Re: Sea Shadow Aloha Are there any scale drawings of Sea Shadow? How about of those pesky North Korean "spy boats" and mini-subs? Burl Burlingame Pacific Monograph, 1124 Kahili Street, Kailua HI 96734 A historical interpretation company. Visit our web site at http://www.PacificHistory.com/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: dhjonespsm@juno.com Subject: Re: British warship design As a follow up for the posting about Vol. 2 of the series on British Warship Design by D. K. Brown - I just received my new Hamilton catalog today and ALL THREE volumes are being offered at the astonishingly low price of $14.95 each - less for all three than the retail price of a single volume. This is a remendous bargain - don't miss it. Daniel Jones -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: Bradford Chaucer Subject: Tamiya POW A few questions about the Tamiya POW 1/350 kit. The instructions show building up each section of the 3 piece main deck and installing them rather late in the process. That will obviously leave a rather visible seam, and is fraught with the likelihood of mismatches, particularly as the deck ends are not perfectly perpendicular to the surfaces. My proposal is to: Lightly sand/shave the section ends to flat and perpendicular glue the 3 sections together, strengthening the seam with glue strips underneath Paint the deck Install as one piece on the hull. Am I likely to run into problems doing it this way? Is there a better way to approach the problem?? I noted a bunch of blind holes (indicated as K) which the instructions do not have me open. Is this deck used in another kit, or in a different version of the POW? I presume that there is a PE set or two for this monster. Who makes one and which one is recommended. (Rusty, you don't have to embarrass yourself by having to recommend a competitor :-) ) Are the recommended Tamiya paints the proper ones for an accurate paint job, or are they just recommending their own regardless? Finally without having to spend a fortune, Is there a decent reference on the POW? Thank you in advance Regards, Bradford Chaucer -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: Bradford Chaucer Subject: Gluing Guide web page Check this one out it is a page with recommendations on how to glue different things together; rather nicely done! http://www.thistothat.com/ Regards, Bradford Chaucer -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: Bradford Chaucer Subject: Re: Arizona Kit The Tom's kit is fantastic, with great, comprehensive instructions. Will make the old Revell kit look like a child's toy. It is not inexpensive though. Regards, Bradford Chaucer -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: Darren Scannell Subject: Shane >> Shane - Who has yet to build an RAN ship & will do something to rectify that this year, so I can answer some of these RAN questions. << WHAT!?!?! You haven't built a ship from your own country?!!!! For Shame! Shane. Even I, who only gets one model a year done if I'm lucky, have built a ship from my own country! Oh wait, I only put a Canadian flag on a US ship, No I uh, I was only 14! No, NO don't banish me, I, I promise I won't ever do it again, ok? please? whew, I hope they don't notice the HMCS Nimitz, Uh oh, did I say that out loud? Oh NOOOoooooo..... Darren (Drunk with power lust and visions of grandeur and a little light headed from the heat of spring today when I popped up from the basement to escape the fumes from my drying Titanic) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: Baker Subject: SKYWAVE SHEER In addition to the problems with the sheer lines on the Skywave Liberty Ship and USN destroyer kits, the same problem occurs with their kits for various USN destroyer escort classes, although the smaller hulls make the problem somewhat less noticeable. The DE hull also had a continuous curve sheer over its entire length, and it continued right to the stern, causing the freeboard at the stern to be higher than amidships. Considering the price charged for Skywave kits, and the obvious effort put into the detail of their products, its a shame that they did not employ readily-available authentic plans so as not to incure so obvious a problem. Sigh . . . Dave Baker -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From Timothy Dike Subject: Re: USS O'Bannon >> Oh yeah, I did have another question. Does anyone know were I might find pics or info on the USS O'Bannon as she might have appeared during the first Naval Battle of Guadalcanal. I plan to build the 1/350 Tamiya kit as a warm up to the Arizona project. I did find one line in the Hammel book on the subject that stated that the aft AA mount was unique to the O'Bannon vs. other early Fletchers in that she had a twin 40mm vs. a quad 40 (I hope I've got that right as my notes are downstairs). << Having asked that same question not too long ago, let me see if I can help. First there are a lot of photo's on the NavSource site. http://www.navsource.org/Archives/ddphoto3.htm#DD-450 The photo that shows her as she was on Friday the 13th is at http://www.navsource.org/Archives/DD/DD-450_OBannon7.jpg There are also two books that will help. One is the Warship Perspectives Fletcher, Gearing, and Sumner Class Destroyers in WW2 by Jeff Herne. This book has several up close shots of the O'Bannon. There is also another book, the Fletcher DDs in action by Squadron/Signal, but the only view of the O'Bannon is an artist rendition of her as she faced off against the Hiei. Unfortunately the Camo pattern doesn't match the photo on the link mentioned above. Another photo can be found at http://www.kc.net/~cadman/Models/Guadalcanal/DD450.jpg Also it was equipped with twin 40 mm. I'm sure that others will also have answers so I'll leave it at that. Timothy mailto:Cadman@kc.net http://www.kc.net/~cadman/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: "Alan Lindstrom" Subject: Railroad anchor chain For those of you who use railroad chain on 1/700 ships for anchor chain, what kind (brand) do you use. The smallest I have been able to find in local hobby stores is 40 links per inch and it looks too large to me, especially on a cruiser or destroyer. Thanks, Alan Danville, CA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: Jowfx@webtv.net (John Fox) Subject: USS The Sullivans Does anyone know if, when The Sulllivans (DD-537) lost her remaining quintuple torpedo tubes and got her Mk 32 triple tubes, the space between her after deckhouse and mid ship deckhouse was enclosed to form one continuous deckhouse? Also, what would be the exact location of the triple tubes? Were they even with the aft stack or aft of it? Did they add an extension to the deck for them? If they did, did it extend to the main deck edge? One more question about paint. Is today's USN haze gray different from 1984's haze gray? And is 1984's haze gray different from the 50's or 60's haze gray? (Okay that's two more questions) Thanks John Fox -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: "Robert Morgan" Subject: Tamiya-Con Hi everyone, I visited Tamiya-Con, Tamiya's in-house traveling promo show at their corporate headquarters in California this morning, and I thought I'd pass on what I heard. First, I asked two Tamiya employees what the chances were of them producing additional ship models, particularly 1/350 scale offerings, since that is what I build. Unfortunately, I received some lukewarm responses. It looks as if aircraft and armor are their main priorities, not ships. I did inquire if they were working on a 1/350 Essex, as has often been rumored, but no one seemed to know. The pessimist in me thinks that this is because they probably aren't. I'll try to confirm this with the hobby shop manager who told me they were working on one, and try to nail this down. Furthermore, the Tamiya store on-site wasn't even carrying any of their ship models, just a lot of armor, some aircraft, and RC cars. I was after a 1/350 KGV or Prince of Wales, but no dice. I guess this pretty well describes how the major manufacturers view our little segment of the hobby. On the plus side, Royal Navy fans will be happy to hear that they're releasing a 1/48 scale Swordfish this fall. The armament, cockpit, and engines were on display, but not the wings and fuselage. It looks like it will come with rockets and a torpedo for those wishing to vary the payload a bit. What I saw looked nice, up to the usual Tamiya quality. There were only three 1/350 scale models there when I left, two Enterprises and a nice KGV. The second Enterprise, which arrived in a thick and heavy display case really blew me away: full photoetching, hangar deck, extra aircraft, the works! I'm a decent ship modeler with room for improvement, and that model inspired me to put some more effort into my ships. Of course, that will have to wait until I finish my F4D-1 Skyray. I know, an airplane. I have sinned. If anyone has any questions on what I saw and heard (what little there is!) feel free to email me. Sincerely, Robert Morgan -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 21) From: "Alicja & David Lombard" Subject: Re: Semi-sub >> [Semi-sub] vessels have a very low waterplane area, so when a wave passes alongsides the columns, little extra buoyancy is created, so the ship's response to waves is low (heave is thus small). However, due to this low waterplane area, the response *time* is long, so the heave frequencies are generally low ... As the semisubs or swaths generally like to heave in low frequencies, their response to higher frequecy waves, as normally encountered at sea, is very small, making them stable platforms. << The response frequency is not the issue, the amplitude is. If you compare the responses of a conventional ship-shape hull and a semi-sub in the same seaway, you will see the conventional hull has higher amplitude roll and pitch while the semi-sub has higher amplitude heave. This is very important in the motions of drilling and crane vessels. When drilling, for example, you'd much rather have to deal with heave, than roll or pitch which is much tougher on the drill pipe and riser. Despite the higher heave amplitudes, semi-subs are extremely stable vessels. In fact, the stability is a little eerie. I was aboard Heerema Marine Construction's BALDER (a semi-sub) and a fairly strong storm came up overnight. When I got to the bridge, my first clue was seeing the rain blowing nearly horizontally--but you just couldn't feel it the in the motions of the vessel. Contrast that with the Sonat EXPLORER (a ship)--there was no question when you were in a strong seaway. David Lombard Rossmoor, Orange County, CA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: BSteinIPMS@aol.com Subject: IPMS contest in Minneapolis Saturday 15 May 99 is the day for the IPMS Region 5 convention here in Minneapolis, Minnesota. To be held at the Days Inn-Mall of America, it promises to be a good time. Ship modelers in the area are welcome and encouraged to bring sail, steam, wood, plastic, resin, or what-have-you to enter in the various ship categories in the associated model contest. Yes, IPMS does (and has for several years) allow non-plastic entries in its contests. For more information contact Steve Hustad, Convention Chairman at: SHUSTAD1@email.usps.gov or Jack Mugan at: jbm007@aol.com I'll have my 1/192 FLETCHER there, although its only 95% complete. And yes, we'll probably quaff a Foster's or two in honor of our SMML host who goes to so much trouble on our behalf and who hails from the land of the 40 ounce beer can. Bob Steinbrunn Minneapolis Now Bob, if you're going to quaff a drink or five on my behalf, you better make sure it's a single malt scotch, from the verrrrrry top shelf. Greg can add his poison as well ;->> Shane - who likes the odd lager or five, but put a bottle of scotch in front of me & it enters the endangered list rather quickly. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume