Subject: SMML06/04/99VOL507 Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 23:53:42 +1000 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: Floquil Primer 2: Blue Water Navy Big E 3: WoodenBoat magazine Web site 4: Naval cannon Web site 5: Re: FRAM Mast structure 6: Re: One more CVS question 7: Re: Ranger P-40 markings 8: Re: Strombecker Kits/Early Kits 9: Re: Ranger P-40 markings 10: Re: Ranger a/c 11: Unofficial Chilean Navy website 12: Re: CVA to CVS 13: Flying High 14: air brushes 15: Re: USS Maine and attaching PE to Resin 16: Wind deflectors on HMS Sheffield, painting 17: Re: Dahlgren Cannon -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: WEM 1/350 HMS Warspite 1942 2: Accurate Image Models 3: Attention SeaPhoto Customers -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Torgeson Roger A KPWA" Subject: Re: Floquil Primer The hobby shop I frequent in Seattle has sent over 6 cases of Floquil primer back, some unfortunately had been used and returned. I was told that Floquil (just before or right after being sold) had a major quality problem with them. I didn't know about the zinc chromate. I agree with John Snyder, try it out on something other then the kit your working on and if it's bad, take it back. I can't see most local hobby shops not replacing it. This kind of problem has got to drive small business nuts. Roger Torgeson -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Satin, Michael N. (SHEP)" Subject: Blue Water Navy Big E Hey all, Well, having finished the 1/700 scale Enterprise for a former inmate, my appetite is whetted. I think I'm going to start on the BWN 1/350 kit (gasp :-o). The kit instructions mention that the hull needs shimming due to shrinkage and that the way to determine how much is to dry fit the hanger walls on to see how they look. My problem is that having done that several times, they seem to fit fine. I'm petrified that I'm going to go ahead and epoxy all of this together and find out at the end that the deck doesn't fit (which he says in the instructions was what happened to him). The thought of cutting that photoetched deck scares the bejinkers out of me! Anyone have any experience here and/or have any idea if there's another way I could check before I start cementing? How about BWN's or MB's e-mail address (am I right in believing they're the same)? Nervous? I'm not nervous. Really! (Though the price tag does occasionally come back to haunt me). Thanks!! Michael Satin -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: BSteinIPMS@aol.com Subject: WoodenBoat magazine Web site Those of you with an interest in wooden boats and ships may want to look into WoodenBoat magazine's Web site. You can also order a free catalog (in the U.S., $3.00 for overseas customers) by clicking on the appropriate box. There are a few model kits available from them which are to be found nowhere else. This month's issue shows the USS CONSTELLATION in drydock in color on the cover. http://media4.hypernet.com/~WOODENBOAT/wb.htm WoodenBoat Publications Bob Steinbrunn Minneapolis -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: BSteinIPMS@aol.com Subject: Naval cannon Web site If you have an interest in model cannon, including naval types, you might check out the Web site below. http://www.cannon-mania.com/index.html Cannon-Mania Devoted to the hobby of firing sma Be sure to follow the links to RBG Cannons. Bob Steinbrunn Minneapolis -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: FRAM Mast structure >> I bought the Shirley FRAM Sumner as it is the only kit of this type of ship I could find. I wanted to build it up as it was in 1968 when I served on DD-709. Generally the kit looks very accurate. Two isues - The ECM shack above the hanger deck is the smll version. Most of these ships had an enlarged shack to include active ECM gear. This happened in the mid-60's. Also the main mast looks rather strange. Doesn't seem to be scaled correctly.This is my first resin kit so I am proceeding slowly. << Steve, The scaling is correct but the PE design is wrong. JS should have made two separate braces for the main mast. The way the bracing is designed you can wrap the bracing around the mast or hard fold it to fit to the back of the mast. I rebuilt mine from brass wire using the PE as a pattern. I don't know about the ECM gear shack. Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. http://www.okclive.com/flagship/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: One more CVS question The Oriskany elevator in the center of the bow forms a point at the bow. Is the elevator the same on the Essex. I don't think it is, but I don't have any photos to confirm it. How about some help? Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. http://www.okclive.com/flagship/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: Caiella@aol.com Subject: Re: Ranger P-40 markings >> "On Ranger's third trip in January 1943, she brought across P-40s of the 352th FG, and these a/c carry a mishmosh of schemes... << I believe this reference to be incorrect. The 352nd FG trained on P-47s in New York and shipped to England in June 43 (not Jan 43) and received a new complement of P-47s at Bodney. They later flew P-51s. The group never flew P-40s. I believe the group in question is the 325th FG which served in North Africa and did fly P-40s. Jim -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: "Katz, Gene S" Subject: Re: Strombecker Kits/Early Kits Howdy Y'all Well finally back online after our corporate battle with melissa/papa. I remember getting a Strombecker USS HOBBY, an early or pre war DD, about 1953 or 54. All wood, no plastic, no metal, hard wood hull, with a little packet of dry wood glue to mix with water. Don't recall the cost, but it must have been cheap otherwise I never would have gotten it (I was 10 or 11). Very plain, limited detail from what I remember. On the subject of old kits, I think the first plastic ship kit I had was either a Revell Missouri or a Renwal North Carolina, probably a whole $2.00 in pre 1955 dollars. I got it at a hobby/sports shop in Baltimore, named "Rudy's", and on a dollar a week allowance it was quite an extravagance. I was yelled at for wasting my money on it. Funny how some things don't change over time; now my wife yells at me for the same thing. Hard habit to drop. :-) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: CCramMiG@aol.com Subject: Re: Ranger P-40 markings Just have to get my 2 cents in on the CV-4 Ranger and her P-40 delivery missions. The Dictionary of American Naval Fighting Ships (http//www.uss-salem.org/danfs/carriers/cv4.htm) gives a good synopsis of the Ranger's 3 P-40 deliver missions. From 22 April until 10 May 1942 she delivered P-40s of the 33rd Pursuit Squadron to Accra on the Gold Coast. From 11 July until 19 July 1942 she again made deliveries of P-40s (unspecified type and squadron) to Accra. No Army P-40s were actually transported or delivered by Ranger during the Operation Torch Landings in November of 1942. USS Ranger supported the landings with her own aircraft. After a retrofit at Norfolk, Ranger again delivered P-40s to Africa, P-40Fs of the 325th Pursuit Group to Casablanca. (DANFS states that they were P-40Ls but photos clearly show that they all had 6 .50 machine guns not the 4 .50s normally installed on the P-40Ls.) My source of pictures of aircraft on this third deliver is ARCO-AIRCAM Series No7, Curtiss P-40D-N Warhawk in USAAF-French and Foreign Service, 1969. Another good picture can be found in Norman Friedman's U.S. Aircraft Carriers, An Illustrated Design History. These P-40Fs appear to be in Middlestone and probably Olive Drab (the USAAF often substituted Olive Drab for Earth Brown as a near match) probably with light blue undersurfaces. Some of these aircraft may have been in Olive Drab with Neutral Gray undersurfaces. It is hard to be sure from the angle of the pictures I have. Neither the P-40s nor the Ranger's own aircraft had the yellow surrounds on this trip (see photo on p 56 of Friedman's book which shows both USN and USAAF aircraft spotted on deck in front of the island). The P-40's had US flags at least on the sides of the fuselage aft of the cockpit (someone please tell me how to do this in 1/700 scale!?!?!?!?) What I think is more important is to be careful how you model the Ranger. The mission in February 1943 was after retrofit at Norfolk in December of 1942 where the late war fit of 20 mm and quad 40's was installed. The Ranger's configuration was changed little if any after this retrofit. The photo in Friedman's book clearly shows the quad 40's. At Norfolk, she was also repainted from the Measure 12 she wore during the Torch Landings and the early P-40 delivery missions to the standard Measure 22 she carried for the remainder of her 1943 combat career in the Atlantic (she picked up the Measure 33 dazzle in 1944 when she was designated a training carrier). I too have been anxious to finish the Corsair Armada Ranger kit with P-40's on deck. This thread has been very enlighting. Thanks. Charlie Cram Beavercreek, Ohio -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: "Jeff Herne" Subject: Re: Ranger a/c Chris Neel wrote: >> However, in a copy of "The P-40 Kittyhawk" Famous Aircraft Series printed by ARCO Publishing Co., It has 2 photos of P-40F's taking off from the USS Ranger of the 33rd Fighter Group which clearly shows the American Flag just below and behind the canopy and also shows the Star with the Yellow surround.... the overall paint scheme is two tone (olive drab and tan) on the upper surfaces with what appears to be yellow(?) aircraft codes on the tail and a yellow(?) stripe just behind the spinner on the cowl.... Under side markings were not visable, but the US Flag did not appear on the upper starbord wing.... at least not on the aircraft in these photos..... the spinner was a darker color but I can't determine which..... << Yes, yes, yes...but the 33rd was not flown from the Ranger (the original requesting post), 71 were flown from the USS Chenango on September 10, 1942. Another 35 more were flown off the HMS Archer on the 12th. I must stand corrected, I did a typo, the yellow surround was applied during August-September of 1942, not 1943. However, the 33rd was a 12th AF group, where the yellow band was commonly applied, along with the American flag decals. These decals were applied as a temporary measure, an alternative to carrying the RAF fin flash on the tail. Their use on incoming a/c was discontinued by the end of November '42. The first units to arrive in North Africa via the RANGER, namely the 57th, were from the 9th Air Force, where the yellow recognition ring was not a standing order. FYI, the colors for the 33rd FG aircraft taking off from Chenango in the mislabeled ARCO book are RAF Middlestone and Dark Earth, with Azure Blue undersides. The spinners are red, the serial numbrs are yellow. If anyone wants pics of these 'Ranger' a/c, let me know and I'll post them to the PICPOST page... Jeff -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: roberto paredes Subject: Unofficial Chilean Navy website Hi all, In it, you will see pictures about chilean navy (old and new ships). For example: Battleship Latorre --> ex HMS Canada Cruiser O'higgins --> ex USS Brooklyn (CL-40) Cruiser Prat --> USS Nashville (CL-43) Cruiser Latorre --> Gota Lejön (Sweden) Destroyer Cochrane --> ex HMS Fife This is the first release. The complete english version will be soon. Kind regards, Roberto Paredes. Unofficial Chilean Navy Page: http://www.geocities.com/area51/cavern/3389/Armada.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: ECammeron@aol.com Subject: Re: CVA to CVS Rusty: Take a look at Alan Raven's ESSEX Class Carriers - A Design History. ORISKANY was a 'one off' ESSEX - she got her steam cats and angled deck in one yard period after having gotten the original 27a Mod in 1948-50. As a result, she has a lot of enhancements that may or may not be apparant over the original 27a ships that went CVS. Your choices are limited to ESSEX, YORKTOWN, HORNET, RANDOLPH, WASP, BENNINGTON and KEARSARGE. Check the starboard quarter - ORISKANY's flight deck has more width at the ramp that the 27a ships. Eugene Cammeron -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: Bradford Chaucer Subject: Flying High It seems that a young man volunteered for military service during World War II. He had such a high aptitude for aviation that he was sent right to Pensacola skipping boot camp. The very first day at Pensacola he solos and is the best flier on the base. All they could do was give him his gold wings and assign him immediately to an aircraft carrier in the Pacific. On his first day aboard he took off and single-handedly shot down 6 Japanese Zeroes. Then climbing up to 20,000 ft. he found 9 more Japanese planes and shot them all down, too. Noting that his fuel was getting low, he descended, circled the carrier and came in for a perfect landing on the deck picking up the number 3 wire. He threw back the canopy, climbed out and jogged over to the captain. Saluting smartly he said, "Well sir, how did I do on my very first day?" The captain turned around, bowed, and replied, "You make one velly impoltant mistake!" Regards, Bradford Chaucer -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: MDDoremus@aol.com Subject: air brushes In recent weeks, some SMMLers have asked about airbrushes. Lots of pros and cons etc. Wanted to pass this along. I saw a **double action** Aztec in the Testors label at my local Walmart this weekend. With Propel, 8-12 bottles of acrylic paint and a paint / supply turntable for ... get this $39.95. Local hobby shop wanted $59. If you want to try a double action and are worried about running out of skill, dollars or patience before you get the hang of it, this can't be a bad deal. Mark Doremus Eden Prairie -- Bob I saw several robins last weekend too. I hate moonlight wasting time, my SMML doesn't get here first thing in the morning anymore. :..>(.... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: Bradford Chaucer Subject: Re: USS Maine and attaching PE to Resin >> I'm thinking about purchasing the USS Maine from Commander Models. Can anyone give me any feed-back on this kit. << Commanders/Ironshipwright has 2 versions of the Maine. A limited production (expensive) 1/192 scale model which is a knockout and a smaller 1/350 scale which is equivalent to their Olympia kit, A good kit of an unusual and ignored subject. If you can spring for it, and if there are still any available, the 1/192 should build up into a Museum qualify model. The "small" size of the USS Maine compared to more modern ships cries out for the larger scale. As to attaching PE, it seems that we need a glue-off :-) Several thoughts are try the "Yellow" carpenter's glue instead of the white Elmers. It sets and tacks faster. Also Perhaps the newer Polyester based carpenter glues. Another suggestion is to tack in a few spots with CA and then run a bead of varnish or lacquer Any other suggestions? Regards, Bradford Chaucer -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: Frances Jones Subject: Wind deflectors on HMS Sheffield, painting Does anyone know if the black band appearance on the bridge wind deflectors on HMS Sheffield, circa 1930s and 40s is painted black, gray, or is the dirty appearance simply the effect of the wind force on the paint? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: "Paul Toscano" Subject: Re: Dahlgren Cannon Bob, You could try this web site which is dedicated to all kinds of cannon,including naval ones. http://www.cannon-mania.com/index.html Paul, Osaka, Japan -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Caroline Carter" Subject: WEM 1/350 HMS Warspite 1942 Hi Guys We're still on Easter hold here (Easter Bank Hol Monday) but just I'd post a bit of info.. Just to let you know that the WEM 1/350 HMS Warspite 1942, the most famous Queen Elizabeth Battleship of all, is scheduled for release towards the middle of the year. This veteran has already been stunningly reproduced by Brian Fawcett in 1/700 Scale, for WEM, with Peter Hall's beautiful photoetched brass detail set and Dave's 16 pages of step-by-step instructions. In 1/700, this is currently the most accurate model on the market (just released) of any QE Class in any scale at 54.00 pounds sterling. The WEM 1/350 HMS Sheffield 1942 kit is reckoned to be THE finest 1/350 ship kit on the market at this time. Brian is a fully trained and time-served model engineer, and Sheff was his first ever 1/350 Scale ship kit (1/350 Warspite will be his second), and although we cannot set a price as yet for the Warspite, we already have a large number of pre-orders, hence our wanting to get this kit up and into production a.s.a.p. To give an indication of the sort of quality that we are looking at, further work for WEM by Brian has included the 1/700 Askold, the 1/700 Chester, all the 1/400, 1/500 and 1/700 Scale aircraft, and the 1/700 HMS Renown, HMS Sussex, HMS Warspite 1916 and 1942, the Q.E. 1918 and Barham 1941 masters. We are looking at Britain's finest professional. Enquiries and reservations welcomed! Thanks! Caroline http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/white.ensign.models For a great build of the WEM 1/700 HMS Sussex 1942, Click here! http://whiteensignmodels.simplenet.com/sussex/sussex.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Jeff Herne" Subject: Accurate Image Models Hi folks, As of April 4th, 1999, I am no longer affiliated with Accurate Image Models. I have decided to step back and spend more time with my new baby daughter and wife. I have also decided to return to writing, and above all else, building for enjoyment again. Please note that the 877-WARSHIP number is no longer valid. For those of you wish to contact me, my home phone is unchanged. If you have any questions regarding the status of any outstanding orders, you can contact Iron Shipwrights. Sincerely, Jeff Herne -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: SeaPhoto@aol.com Subject: Attention SeaPhoto Customers Hello Everyone, I just wanted to let everyone know that I will be out on a photo shoot from April 15 to the middle of June, covering New York's Fleet Week among other subjects. Because of this, I will not be able to fill photo orders during this time. Orders for catalogs will still be processed , since I have arranged for someone to send them out as needed. Photo orders will have to wait until my return. No checks will be cashed for orders that I recieve during this time until they are shipped to the customer upon my return. You will be able to contact me via my normal email if you have any questions during this time. Cordially, Kurt Kurt Greiner SeaPhoto Maritime Photography -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume