Subject: SMML09/04/99VOL510 Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 02:58:07 +1000 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: USS Kidd 2: Re: Japanese pre-WWII colors and marking 3: London Ship Model Shops 4: Kudos - Model Expo, Inc. 5: Kosovo 6: Re: IJN Pre-war colors 7: Re: Horizontal Surfaces 8: Re: IPMS(USA) Nationals Ship Seminars 9: Fletcher catapult/Kingfisher modifications 10: Paint colours - thanks!! 11: Doxford Standard ships 12: Ms21 horizontal surfaces 13: Another Ranger feat 14: USS Phoenix from Corsair Armada 15: Re: various 16: Re: New Phonetic Alphabet ;-) 17: Pre-War U.S. Naval A/C Colors 18: Re: Spruance colors 19: Re: Kidd Class 20: Gato Class Submarine Deck Gun 21: Railings -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: April issue of NavisMagazine 2: Kaiten Mk.1 & Mk.2 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Percy, John" Subject: Re: USS Kidd Shane, Saw your inquiry about the USS Kidd based on a Spruance. This is true (I worked on her for 3+ years as a software contractor), and the Arii 1/700 Spruance class (Olendorf, John Rogers, Merrill) is a great place to start, basicaly because they supply the Mk 26 twin arm missle launchers as well as the VLS. You get some Pegasus PHM and landing craft, too. And, its a full hull option. Nice kit for the $$, and most of what you need for USS Kidd is there. Good luck, John Percy mailto:jpercy@clariion.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: Jon Parshall Subject: Re: Japanese pre-WWII colors and marking >> I am planning to build some IJN ships, and wanted to do something a little different, so I've decided to paint and mark them in a pre-WWII style, around 1936-1937. What differences would there have been, if any? I know the lino decks would still be in place, but what about planes? Marking? Flags? The specific ships are the BB Mutsu, and DDs of the Asashio, Mutsuki and Shiratsuya classes. << The Japanese DDs will certainly have their white funnel bands. You might want to do some digging into which squadron(s) they belonged to at that date, and then you may be able to recreate the funnel banding accurately. I can put you in touch with Allyn Nevitt (AllynDN@aol.com) if you need help in this regard; he's forgotten more about their tin cans than I will ever know. Cheers, Jon -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "Morley, James (London)" Subject: London Ship Model Shops If you are in the area, try Maritime Models in Nelson Rd, Greenwich. Very close by are the Royal Naval College, the Maritime Museum (with some seriously fantastic models), the Cutty Sark, and the Royal Observatory (0 degrees longditude) - so there's a bit to do. James Morley -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: "Ray S. Katzaman" Subject: Kudos - Model Expo, Inc. Kudos and my hat (actually a baseball cap) goes off to Model Expo, Inc. My wife and daughters gave me Artesania Latina's newest entry as a gift last Christmas. WOW, the 40 and 1/2 inch long Cutty Sark. I started working on it and when I had the false keel, the frames and the deck all glued up and was ready too start planking, I noticed that the ship was warped, as if one had taken the stem and bent one way and the stern and bent it the other way. No way to fix it now since I had used carpenters glue and CA to hold everything together. I contacted Model Expo and explained my problem and the said "No problem" we'll take care of that. They ordered the parts directly from Artesania Latina, and even though it took about 8 weeks (their memo said it would take that long), I finally got my damaged parts and I'm ready to start again. Their personnel were extremely curteous and understanding of the problem. They explained that they did not keep spare parts on kits that expensive, but, would contact AL in Spain, and AL would mail directly to me. That they did. So again, my baseball cap off to Model Expo and their staff - THANKS!! Ray S. Katzaman Austin, Texas -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: Pieter Cornelissen Subject: Kosovo I've been surfing the web for soem time now, but I have not yet found any references on the Russian warships that were send from the Black Sea to 'interrupt (?)' the NATO air attacks. Does anyone on list know which ships these are? Pieter Cornelissen -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: John Snyder Subject: Re: IJN Pre-war colors Well, do a little research and determine which Navy Yards (Naval Arsenals) the ships were based out of, and select the appropriate gray from our IJN paint chip set (we did some of that research and include it with the set, but don't have those particular ships). Linoleum main decks on the DDs would be appropriate. The DDs would also likely be carrying their names in kana characters on the sides of the hulls amidships, but I'd recommend researching that as well. One of the Tamiya random detail books has all the kana characters included. Marking? Again, hit the books. John Snyder Snyder & Short Enterprises The Paint Guys -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: John Snyder Subject: Re: Horizontal Surfaces Just to augment Rusty White's post, remember too that Deck Blue (20-B) got revised, so that what was Deck Blue in late 1941 was a different color from Deck Blue 20-B by late 1942. And both of those differed somewhat from the stains (Norfolk 250N and Flight Deck Stain 21) used on carrier flight decks. All four of the aforementioned colors are included in our USN paint chip Set 1. And just to keep things muddied, ship-specific research is a must for accuracy, since some vessels also included a pattern of Ocean Gray and Deck Blue on their decks, in addition to any pattern carried on the vertical surfaces. John Snyder Snyder & Short Enterprises The Paint Guys -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: IPMS(USA) Nationals Ship Seminars As of now my seminar is scheduled for Sat. 1:30 - 3:00 PM. The subjects will be Working with PE Parts and Making Realistic Water in Large Scale. Since I only have time for one seminar, (I just couldn't miss the NASA tour) I may add some ship weathering techniques to the show. I look forward to putting the faces together with the emails I have been seeing here. So drop by and say hello. I'll also just happen to have some CIWS kits and a batch of detail sets with me (shameless plug). Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. http://www.okclive.com/flagship/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: LUCASNER@aol.com Subject: Fletcher catapult/Kingfisher modifications I'm thinking about modeling one of the Fletchers that were fitted with aircraft catapults during '42-'43. I know of each of the hulls and their histories with a few pictures from NAVSOURCE and DANFES. Does anyone out there have more detailed photos or information? Specifically, it looked as though the 'amidships deckhouse was extended into the after deckhouse, true? Was the catapult fitted a standard cruiser/BB type? The anti-aircraft fitment appears to be 20mm guns around the pilothouse, and a single 40mm or dual 40mm on the fantail. In the photos I have, I can't see any 40mm guns amidships or the 20mm guns mounted aft of the #2 stack like most Fletchers. Please, all, any info? Plans? Photos? LUCASNER@aol.com. I'm an Air Force weenie, so take it easy on the nautical terms if possible...HaHa -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: "Chris Hughes" Subject: Paint colours - thanks!! Hi Folks, Thanks to Caroline and Rusty for the replies, much appreciated! Regards, Chris Hughes -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: "RLOCKIE" Subject: Doxford Standard ships There was an article in Plastic Ship Modeller magazine about these in the last couple of years, which I think mentioned some names and histories. Robert Lockie Cambridge UK The article in question is from PSM 96/1, 1996 pp 34. Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: "RLOCKIE" Subject: Ms21 horizontal surfaces Yes, Deck Blue 20B is correct for horizontals in this measure. Robert Lockie Cambridge UK -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: "Jeff Herne" Subject: Another Ranger feat Ok guys, Here's one NONE of you have any references on... In 1942, shortly after Torch, Ranger was considered for use during the Do-Nothing Raids on Spitzbergen. Unlike the Doolittle Raid on Tokyo, this mission was to be carried by 12 Ford Tri-motors, since this was the only twin engined aircraft that could fit aboard Ranger's flight deck. Each Tri-motor (military designation SMT-1, Slow Moving Target)was to carry 14 washed-out fighter pilots dropping hand grenades on ground targets from the opened passenger windows. Escort was to be provided by a squadron of Brewster Buffalo aircraft. Unfortunately, no one could find a maintenance manuals for the Ford Tri-motor, and no volunteers came forward to partake in this daring raid, so the mission was scrubbed... **DISCLAIMER** Guys, this is tongue-in-cheek humor, so put your reference books away...I MADE IT UP... Somebody out there right now has read this far and is STILL trying to figure out how to fit 12 Buffaloes and 12 Tri-Motors on the Ranger's Deck...you know who you are... ;-p Yours in humor (even if bad humor), Jeff -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: roberto paredes Subject: USS Phoenix from Corsair Armada Hi guys, I need to know Who sell the USS Phoenix from Corsair Armada (1/700) in the States? Regards, Roberto. Unofficial Chilean Navy Page http://www.geocities.com/area51/cavern/3389/Armada.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: CBNJBB62@aol.com Subject: Re: various In reply to the request on German ship designations since the creation of West Germany after W.W.II they used -FGS-Federal German Ship however since the reunification of Germany I don't know if this is still in use. For Lexington deck colors I know of a movie called Dive Bomber made in 1941 with Fred McCurry and Errol Fly it was in color and shows a prewar ENTERPRISE. As for the KIDD class I've learned that they are proposed to be given to Greece and 3 of the class are mothballed in Philadelphia and they have had the radar's removed from the masts but they sealed them up with the 20 mm phalanx still mounted but covered over. Craig Bennett -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: Frederick Wagner Subject: Re: New Phonetic Alphabet ;-) I have also obtained confidentially a copy of the new phonetic alphabet. It seems to be somewhat more international and less military. It is probably pre-Kosovo. A Affirmative N New B Bearing O One C Czar-wash P Psyched D Disregard Q Quadaffi E Etui R Repeat F Favre S Say-again G Gnu T Tsunami H Honor U Unsafe I Istoria V Vroclav J Jai Lai W Wreck K Knew X Zerox L Listen up Y Ypres M Mnemonic Z Zeroed Fritz -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: Chris Neel Subject: Pre-War U.S. Naval A/C Colors Getting ready to start painting the aircraft for my USS Lexington 1937 (or thereabouts) project.... Can anyone suggest a good source that gives the colors for the U.S. Navy aircraft for the Pre-War era? I would like to do the yellow wings with the gray or silver bodies but have become confused with the tail plane colors.... Were the colors assigned to the Aircraft Carriers or to the Aircraft Squadrons? Did different types have different colors or were all aircraft assigned to a carrier the same? Most of the illustrations I've seen show the "Section Leader" aircraft with a colored stripe on the cowling and a broad fuselage stripe - did only the section leader have these or did other a/c have just the fuselage stripes or colored cowling (or both? or neither?) How about an explanation of the chevrons and other wing markings and stripes? How many "sections" were in a Squadron? How many aircraft in a "section"? Would like to know a good source that might list the colors for all of the differenct carriers if there is one available - Never know when I might start on another pre-war carrier...... Thanks... cn -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: SWO77@aol.com Subject: Re: Spruance colors Rusty is 98% correct in his description of the Spruance colors. The 2% error involves variations from ship to ship, so check refs for your particular ship's painting details. For example, sometimes cleats and chocks are white, but this doesn't seem common. Also, the no-skid deck areas are delineated on some ships (definite non-skid walkways) and on others the entire deck is no skid. No two ships are exactly alike. As for colors, they are (ranging from darkest to lightest) Flight deck gray (very dark), non-skid deck gray (slightly lighter than flight deck), deck gray (kind of like Gunship gray, but not quite) and Haze Gray. Yes, I'm being very ambiguous about the colors, but there are formulas out there (The next to last Pacific Front flyer even had them mentioned in a paragraph) and I do not have them handy. Again, check photos as ships weather to varying degrees and no one paint formula is correct for every ship. Mike -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: Chris.Evenden@agso.gov.au Subject: Re: Kidd Class Shane, I remember a couple of years back Finescale Modeler did an article on building the Kidds from a Skywave Spruance. Thanks Chris Evenden The article in question is for an Arii kit & the issue is July 1985. That's what I get for not checking the Shiplist first ;-((. Also is the Arii Spraunce a copy of the Skywave? Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: THENRYS@aol.com Subject: Gato Class Submarine Deck Gun I'm currently trying to 'clear the decks' of open projects, one of which is the BWN 1/350 Gato class sub. The sub is ready for paint, but I'm not happy with the deck gun provided in the kit. Does anyone have a picture of the 4"/50Cal used on Gatos from late '42 on? I've got the Floating Drydock book, and it has one pic from above the gun, but it's not quite enough to attampt a scratch build or to upgrade the kit gun. Any help would be appreciated. Todd Henry P.S. Or is there an aftermarket 4"\.50 ? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 21) From: "Millen, Alan R." Subject: Railings Here's one for the list that I haven't heard yet: On a camoflaged naval vessel, are the railings painted as a continuation of the pattern? I.e., are they painted to match the pattern behind them? And what of the railings on the foc's'le, with nothing but water behind them when viewed from abeam? What about as viewed from inboard? Do they match the deck colors? Almost to that point on my Fletcher. Alan R. Millen -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Kenneth H. Goldman" Subject: April issue of NavisMagazine The April issue of NavisMagazine continues its account of the Guadalcanal campaign with part III, focusing on the Battle of the East Solomons, along with part II of Luftwaffe propaganda stories and the sinking of the IJN carrier Shinano. This month's walf-arounds spotlight the Macchi 205 "Veltro" and USS J. Stennis CVN-74. Build up reviews spotlight: USS Little APD 4 (converted four piper DD) in 1/700, Mark 1 and Mark 2,4 Kaiten (human torpedoes) in 1/96, HMS Sheffield in 1/700, a Vosper MTB in 1/350, IJN APD 34 (ex Susuki, converted Momi-class) in 1/700, and UPC's 1/400 IJN Shinano, along with a Nakajima B6N1 Tenzan (Jill), an Aichi B7A1 Ryusei (Grace), a Loire 130 floatplane, and Tamiya's 1/50 Mitsubishi F1M "Pete." The Task Forces section covers Operation Wikinger, and Virtual Spaces reviews "Fighter Squadron." Photo specials cover USAAF first blows against the Luftwaffe and IJN ships under air attack at Rabaul. Plus the usual departments and a Modeler Profile of Lester Abbey. Ken THE WALRUS AND THE CARPENTER http://www.wman.com/~khgold/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Kenneth H. Goldman" Subject: Kaiten Mk.1 & Mk.2 With NATO currently in action, "smart" weapons are again in the news. However, those types of ordnance did exist before the invention of laser and television guidance systems. Japan called them Kamikaze, Kaiten, Ohka. The April issue of NavisMagazine publishes my build-up review of Pacific Monograph's "96th Fleet" resin kits of Kaitens Mk.1 and Mk.2. Kudos to fellow SMMLer Burl Burlingame. Ken Goldman THE WALRUS AND THE CARPENTER http://www.wman.com/~khgold/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume