Subject SMML13/04/99VOL514 Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 00:00:56 +1000 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: Yardbirds, etc. 2: "Dockyard Mateys" 3: USS Pampanito 4" 50 caliber deck gun 4: Re: Battleship program on Discovery 5: Re: SHIP BUILDING TIPS 6: Re: MB Perry class frigate kit 7: Re: Ships and Tips comments 8: Merrill's deck edges 9: Nat'l Geographic Midway special 10: Measure 21 11: Re: Fletcher Catapults 12: Re: The new phonetic alphabet 13: Glencoe Oregon parts 14: London Ship Model Resources 15: 350th scale Bismarck spotter plane decals 16: small piece replacements? 17: Dockyard Workers 18: Re: Dockyard workers 19: Blue Water Navy email address 20: Re: BWN Perry Class Frigate 21: Re: National Geographic Yorktown Special 22: Re: Blue Water Navy Perry Class Frigate 23: Royal Navy colors of WW2 24: Re: 1/700 naval battle ensign decals -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: Re: 1/700 naval battle ensign decals 2: International Maritime Modeling - April 1999 Update 3: 1/700 Fletcher anti-skid decals 4: Toms Modelworks update -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Katz, Gene S" Subject: Re: Yardbirds, etc. I definitely concur with "yardbirds". I spent a lot of time at shipyards on all 3 coasts, and it was the term of choice, along with "yardrats" on the Gulf Coast. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: Tom Dean Subject: "Dockyard Mateys" Hi Gang: Read yesterdays replies to the question of what naval dockyard workers were called in USN yards. Rightly or wrongly, its seems that these poor individuals were universally despised. Although the question was for United States yards, I would like to offer up the following story. In Canada, they were also referred too as "Dockyard Mateys" and other things that would make a Bosun blush. They were held in some contempt by serving sailors for what was perceived as lazy and sloppy work. Remember, these were observations of young men who held most people on "civy street" in contempt, not just dockyard workers. A good example of how much respect they were given is in the following story from the 60's. It seems that at least once a year, we were required to watch a film produced by the Navy on shipboard safety. It had the usual "effects" of accidental electrocutions, gunners losing a hand, man overboard etc. All of these would invoke the usual" nervous" laughter or comment from the rear of the room as to the poor victims "gene pool" One section showed a DDE entering Halifax Harbour on a bright, sunny day. Ships company was at "Stations for entering harbour". Oh no! someone had forgot to put the safety pin back in the trigger for the ships mortars in the ops room. The officer at the plot table for some forgotten reason stumbles and grabs for anything to stop his fall. You got it, he grabs the pistol, and unleashes a 250lb ASW bomb. Forget the reality that this was impossible, just enjoy it. Pan to Halifax dockyards. Noon time. About 30 dockyard mateys sitting on a grassy knoll (pun intended) enjoying lunch (extended as always) Sound effects of a plunging bomb (?) Large explosion. Big hole in the ground with smoke coming out of it. Bodies and lunch buckets everywhere. Fade out. Now the good part. Every single time that I saw this training film, the entire room of sailors would stand and cheer like it was the final game of the Stanley Cup (Hockey) when this segment was shown. At one sitting, the film was rewound, and shown again for our amusement. Rodney Dangerfield must have been a "Dockyard Matey"! (I don't get no respect) Tom Dean Hamilton, Ontario Canada -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "Rob Mackie" Subject: USS Pampanito 4" 50 caliber deck gun Tom Dougherty wrote: >> Are you certain that Pampanito has a 4" 50 on her deck? The few pictures I have seem to be of a later war 5"/25 gun. These photos are some years old, so it's possible the gun was replaced with an earlier war 4" 50. If so, it seems inaccurate, as most Balaos had 5" guns, either 5"/50 or the later and last deck gun model mounted on US Subs) 5"/25. << Tom, Pampanito underwent a refit in July '45, at which time her deck gun was "replaced". I agree that the photos show her with a 5" 25 but this final refit apparently replaced the 5" gun with a 4" 50. She was on her way to Pearl post refit when the war ended. According to the excellent Pampanito web site: http://www.maritime.org/pamphome.shtml The restorers searched far and wide for the proper 4" 50 gun so that she could be shown in her final August 1945 fit. They finally found the USS Tautog's 4"50 gun. The Tautog, the highest scoring WW2 US sub, had been scrapped and her 4" gun was available. So the 4" 50 piece sitting on Pampanito is apparently correct for August 45. Others have also questionned the accuracy of a 4" 50 on Pampanito, but apparently that's what she had in Aug '45 after her final refit. Regards, Rob Mackie -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: "foeth" Subject: Re: Battleship program on Discovery If it was the same program as I saw on Discovery (UK) last year, my comments are: Booh! Mostly praise for US battleships and how great they were, and 15 seconds on the others, not even mentioning that the Yamato was the most powerfull battleship ever (not that it is important), although they gave the ship a full 5 seconds of time. Just your average Discovery "Lets compile interesting footage" and little on politics behind the development, etc. Also, looking at the ships as museums has no historical value at all. I want to see historical shots! Just as with Ballards books (well, book...) and documentaries. I don't care how life is aboard his discovery vessel, and how much time they spend looking on those ships. I want to see the wreck and conclusions on what happened! "On day 15 we experienced heavy seas and we could not use the minisub. Everybody was feeling sick" Hmmm, interesting indeed! I have the idea that no expert on either (battle)ship history or naval architecture has been consulted when making these films (only interviewed). Why do we have to see 4 scientist flabergasted behind their PC when their computer calculations show that the stresses in the Titanic where highest where the ship broke in two? Isn't that obvious? Apparently not. Most of these shows are too popular. And then we have to explain to everybody "No, they did not use cheap steel on the Titanic to cut costs" "No, the Titanic wasn't a major blunder" "No, Bismarck wasn't the most powerfull ship in the world" "No, you cannot stand up in the barrel of a gun (That's what I overheard a *NAVAL* officer saying)" "No, they don't use battleships anymore" "No, they are not a mile long" "No, the Hood destruction was not a billion to one chance" "No, they are not going to raise the Bismarck" And then some people still ask me "Why not?" Then I have to use more desperate measures to expell the demons of ignorance. But on the other hand, because of these programs, people now do know the number 2 ship of all time on my list of ships everybody should know (Noah's ark is no 1). Or perhaps that had something to do with that horrible movie... Oh yes, I have had people visiting me staring in amazement at that 'titanic' thing on my shelf, not knowing what ship that was. And to make matters worse, why not start another pointless list of ships, the list of ships everybody *should* know? 1) Noah's ark 2) Titanic 3) Lusitania 4) Mayflower 5) Bismarck 6) Joan of ark Evert-jan Foeth, seriously confused due to a malfunctioning program called MathCad -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: SHIP BUILDING TIPS >> I would like to know if there are any books out there that gives extra tips etc for model ship building. << Get the Kalambach book "Building and Detailing Scale Models Ships" by Mike Ashey. It's a terrific full color book with tons of useful tips and techniques. You can buy it through FSM or from their web site. Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. http://www.okclive.com/flagship/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: MB Perry class frigate kit >> Can anyone tell me anything about the Blue Water Navy Perry Class Frigate? << I have one built up in my model case. It's truly an outstanding kit. It is very accurate and easy to build. The casting on mine was almost perfect. The photo etch is of excellent quality. It's been on the market a while and I believe MB is selling well below the introductory price. I would check Iron Shipwright's Perry class as well. I haven't seen one yet but I remember the price is competitive with MB. The photo etch rails are custom designed for the model there is no measuring required. A good touch for beginners. You will need decals though. MB makes some really nice decals they sell separately but I'm not sure if they include helopad markings. I got my deck markings from GMM. You'll enjoy this kit and it looks very impressive on a water base but (as I recall) it also comes with a full hull option. I highly recommend this kit to anyone wanting to get started in 1/350 resin modeling. Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. http://www.okclive.com/flagship/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: Ships and Tips comments The reason I started Ships and Tips was to expose more modelers to ship models and techniques. Since then I have received many kind letters from modelers who enjoy reading about our end of the hobby. I started getting kits to review from several models companies (thanks Carolyn). So many I had to run a "reviewers wanted" ad in S&T. We now feature reviews of all sorts of ship related products in S&T. The end result was most of the reviewers are SMMLr's. S&T has grown way beyond what I thought it would when I started it. I credit it's growth to the incredible proliferation of resin kits on the market. Plastic companies can't compete with them as far as detail or accuracy because they are designed by ship modelers. If any company wants to pass a kit or product along for review, I promise we have a review and photos within 60 days and it will be placed in the next issue of the Journal (shameless plug). Thanks to everyone who have contributed. This is to everyone. Send on reviews and articles of your current project and I'll see to it they get in the Journal. I want S&T to be everybody's column. Rusty White Ships and Tips Flagship Models Inc. http://www.okclive.com/flagship/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: SWO77@aol.com Subject: Merrill's deck edges For the gentleman interested in the Merrill's deck edges, Darren was correct in that the corners are relatively sharp and that there are indeed toe rails along parts of the edges. Amidships, where the Bushmaster mounts are located, this toe rail section indents a bit further. All extreme edges of the decks are painted deck gray. This edge is about as wide as the bitts and is painted neatly around wider fittings. I am currently building the Merrill in 1/350 and have a lot of information on her. Let me know what you are looking for and perhaps I can help with some photos. Regards, Mike -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: Burl Burlingame / Pacific Monograph Subject: Nat'l Geographic Midway special The TV special is well done, by the way. Some of Ford's color footage is used, and the color seems to be in balance. There are a fair number of inaccurate shots showing combat -- late-war kamikazes standing in for American planes -- but that's kept to a minimum. Inaccurate, but not inappropriate. The script cuts back and forth between the history and the search, a old TV trick of pumping up suspense where none exists. Ballard had a very short timeframe to find the carriers, only three to four weeks. The Yorktown turned out to be right about where they thought it was, but the search for Kaga came up bust. Shouldn't Kaga, Akagi and Soryu be fairly close to one another? They also had an accident early in the expedition -- the camera housing on the RPV imploded under the water pressure. It's very impressive when they show the pieces. One note -- later in the special SBD pilot Dick Best talks about his surprise when he first saw the Japanese carriers, because the decks were "painted bright yellow" plus the red hinomaru made for a great aiming point. He said the American carrier decks were "stained North Pacific blue' since the war started. Virtually nothing is shown of Yorktown's present condition except close-up shots of shattered details. She's in better shape than Titanic, though! I hope they go back and find the Japanese carriers. There's a chance these ships burned so furiously that they simply fell apart as the sank. Now they need to find the Sydney! (Damm right they should: Shane) Burl Burl Burlingame Pacific Monograph, 1124 Kahili Street, Kailua HI 96734 buzz@aloha.net A historical interpretation company. Visit our web site at http://www.PacificHistory.com/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: "Doremus, Mark" Subject: Measure 21 John, Rusty and Eugene, Thanks for your help with my color question. I was confused by the use of "overall" in the description. I wondered if it meant everything or just referred to all vertical surfaces. As to checking references, I will get to the books and drawings as the budget allows. I intend to model the USS 'GQ Johnny' Johnston before the Battle off Samar (Oct 44). Navsource (quoting Friedman?) refers to her as the most famous USN destroyer of WWII. Unfortunately she also seems to be the least photographed. I have found only one picture (27 OCT 43) repeated over and over in several sources; Friedman, Battle off Samar Website, Navsource, Destroyers On-line to name a few. Are there any other reasonably obvious sources / sites I've missed? Thanks Mark Eden Prairie, MN -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: "Doremus, Mark" Subject: Re: Fletcher Catapults IPMS Quarterly Vol. 15 no 2, Winter '79 has some 1/700 drawings and notes on the USS Halford DD-480 with a catapult. Contact me off list for more details. Mark Doremus, mark.doremus@itron.com or mddoremus@aol.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: "John S. Platt" Subject: Re: The new phonetic alphabet Hi all I have been away for a while and on returning read the posts regarding the new phonetic alphabet and the associated comments. Having been an Air Traffic Controller for 20 years or so I can assure you that the only chance a new phonetic alphabet has in the ATC business would be one that has every letter which has a rude association with pilots and there aircraft. How about: S - School boys or N - Nutcase (on second thoughts that would also apply to ATCO's) OK, back in the corner for me. Regards. John S. Platt. Brasted, Kent, UK. (Chucking it down) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: Djhudgel@aol.com Subject: Glencoe Oregon parts Hi Everyone, After months of calls and talking to two warm bodies, I finally received the missing parts to the Glencoe Model of the U.S.S. Oregon. In case anyone needs it their E-mail address is: glencoe@javanet.com Doug Hudgel, Anniston, Al -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: "chenyangzhang" Subject: London Ship Model Resources Arne Other model shops include Hannants Colindale Avenue (just outside the tube of the same name) Comet Minatures 44-48 Lavender Hill Clapham Junction (mainly sci fi though they have another shop which has a selection of out of date ship models) Bookshops Motor Books St Martins Court (just near Leicester Square tube - they have two shops near each other, the naval section is downstairs in the military one) ISO Publications bookshop 137 Westminster Bridge Road London (near Waterloo) Most of these follow standard opening times (not on Sundays) Chris Langtree -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: Patrick Roach Subject: 350th scale Bismarck spotter plane decals Need a set of German markings for the spotter planes on my 350th scale Tamiya Bismarck. Tamiya did not feel obligated to supply any decals for this kit and I do not feel good about painting these on myself. (Tamiya did supply Aircraft markings for Yamato) Does the Lindberg or Academy kits have these markings? Does anyone make a 350th scale decal set for German warplanes? Thanx, Pat -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: Scott Gronek Subject: small piece replacements? I've been working on a Shanghai Dragon 1/350 scale Ohio-class SSBN, and my dog ate a very small piece (a hinge for one of the SLBM hatches) that my wife accidentally knocked off of the table. I know this sounds silly, but does anyone know of a way of replacing small pieces like that without buying an entire replacement kit? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: "Caroline Carter" Subject: Dockyard Workers Many thanks to everyone for their contributions in this department.. I gather that U.S. dockyard workers are (or were?) generally not held in the highest esteem by the U.S. Navy.. however, I suppose at least they weren't always on strike. Particular thanks to Mr Steve Wipper of Jurassic Horsewhips for his particularly amusing suggestions. Caroline Carter White Ensign Muddles -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: "Michael Czibovic" Subject: Re: Dockyard workers My father used to call them "yardbirds" too, but I never got the impression that it was a fond term. I remember a story he told of while he was stationed on the old Holland (AS-3). The "yardbirds" were always draining the engine room coffee pots into their thermoses during yard periods. After repeated complaints, the crew finally got fed up and put a teaspoon of boiler compound in one of the pots. After they spent a day with the "trots," the "civies" apparently got the message and left the coffee alone. I didn't say anything before because I thought the term might be confused with the band, too. Mike Czibovic -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: steven lau Subject: Blue Water Navy email address Last summer I bought the BWN kit of the USS South Dakota from their booth at the IPMS/USA nationals. Great kit, beautiful model but unfortunately mine was missing some parts. So far one fax and two letters have gone unanswered. Very unusual since in the past I've always gotten great service from them. Usually the above and beyond kind of thing. I wondered if anyone had an email address for them so I could try them that way? Thanks, Steven Lau Ps: anyone have any experience with the BWN Yorktown kit to make a recommendation? I've been thinking about that one since I first heard it was coming out but for $900 I would like someone to hold my hand before I plunk down the money. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: "Frank and Carol Berger" Subject: Re: BWN Perry Class Frigate I built the BWN USS Samuel Roberts about 4 years ago. It was the first resin kit I had built and was definitely the kit that got me hooked on resin/ multi media kits. The model is very complete, with a two piece hull, extensive photo-etch fret and white metal detail parts. Every looks very accurate and the instructions are comprehensive. The only complaint I had with the kit was that the lower hull had shrunk considerably in beam, so much so that I decided to scrap it and build the kit waterline. Otherwise a very fine kit. Frank -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 21) From: "Frank and Carol Berger" Subject: Re: National Geographic Yorktown Special In conjunction with the special NG issue, this pat Sunday night on NBC Dateline, there was a short feature on Ballard's work finding the Yorktown. They also announced that on Wednsday night, on TBS, there would be a NG program. The local TV listing shows Wednsday night from 7:05 P.M. to 9:05 P.M. (CST) "National Geographic Explorer: Battle for Midway". You can bet that the VCR is set already! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 22) From: Greg Lee Subject: Re: Blue Water Navy Perry Class Frigate Chris Wrote, >> Can anyone tell me anything about the Blue Water Navy Perry Class Frigate? << Sure, What do you need to know? Its a great little kit, builds quickly, is reasonably accurate, and is worth the money. Only problem is, (as I understand) it has a 2-part hull - and for this reason, the Gulfstream version is probly a better kit, its basically the same kit but with a 1 piece hull. Check out the pics of My USS Ford Model on the Warships page. Have Fun! Greg -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 23) From: arne.rolstad@narvesen.no Subject: Royal Navy colors of WW2 In a Tamyia-description of the famous WW2-battleship HMS Rodney, appears the following admiralty color codes. Does anyone know the equivalents of these colors in f.inst. the Humbrol/Tamyia charts? Dark Blue, admiralty code no MS1 Reddish Blue, admiralty code no B5 Whitish Blue, admiralty code no B6 Light Grey, admiralty code no 507C Regards arne.rolstad@narvesen.no -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 24) From: James Corley Subject: Re: 1/700 naval battle ensign decals >> I need naval battle ensign decals in 1/700 scale for the following WW2 navies: US, UK, Italian, French, and German. Somebody must make them, but I've had no luck yet. << These are made by GMM as the "International Flag Decals", item 700/350-1D, retail $6.00 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Duane Fowler Subject: Re: 1/700 naval battle ensign decals Hello Rich, I make a full range of flag decals in 1/700 for all navies, modern and historical. They are in 12', 9' and 6' scale size for all ship classes, presented flat (as compared to blowing) and include both the ensign and the jack. If you would like more information (pricing, etc.) please send me an e-mail at: dlfowler@uscg.net. Best regards, Duane Fowler -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: Felix Bustelo Subject: International Maritime Modeling - April 1999 Update Hello All! I am pleased to announce the April '99 update of International Maritime Modeling: http://members.tripod.com/~Febus65/imm.htm Each month will now include a New Arrivals page for Research in Scale, a mail-order source for ship modeling references - books, plans and photos. Just click on the link to see what is new this month and for info on how to contact RIS. I have also cleaned up the Kit List page, with each manufacturer's list on a separate page. I hope that this will make accessing the Kit Lists easier. The April 1999 update to the site includes: Photos of Les Case's Queen Mary, Mauretania, Titanic and France in the Photo Gallery. Quick Kit Reviews of the PT Dockyard 1/600 Shtorm and Revell 1/300 USCGC Taney. Review White Ensign Models 1/600 Warspite photoetch set and Gold Medal Models Naval & Merchant Ship Flag Decal Set in Photoetch Reviews. Book Reviews of the V.E. Tarrant's Battleship Warspite and the Profile Morskie volumes on the Warspite and IJN Maya. Update of the Kit List page to include a price list for PT Dockyard 1/600 Resin Miniatures. Update of the Links page. So, please stop by for a visit. Felix Bustelo Webmaster -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "Tom & Carolyn Harrison" Subject: Toms Modelworks update Just a quick note, we have just put into production three new etched brass sets all of which will be shipping by the end of the month. Set 250-1 1/250 scale set for the Revell H.M.S. Bligh or (Buckley class DE) $25.00 Set 729 1/720 scale set for the Revell Graf Zeppelin $10.00 Set 732 1/700 scale set for IJN Seaplane tenders. (Skywave and Aoshima kits) $13.00 Mention the Warship or SMML pages and I'll ship free. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: Duane Fowler Subject: 1/700 Fletcher anti-skid decals Hello All, Sorry it has taken so long but I have just finished the 1/700 scale Fletcher Class destroyer anti-skid walkway decals. The sheet includes both the solid walkways of the USS Fletcher and the 6"X24" pads found on later ships.The decals are designed to fit the Tamiya 1/700 "round bridge" model but should fit other models in the same scale. Plenty of extra walkways and tiles are included. Also included are the correct size hull numbers (enough to make any number in the class) along with a correctly proportioned 6' hoist 48 star flag. The tiled walkway set represents a generic layout. The modeler can trim off any extra tiles not needed or add more from extra blocks included. I am asking US$7 per set to cover my costs. Those interested should send there name and address by e-mail me to dlfowler@uscg.net or dunagain1@aol.com I will send out the decals along with a pre-addressed return envelope for payment. Best regards, Duane Fowler -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume