Subject: SMML16/04/99VOL517 Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 01:30:16 +1000 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: Paravanes 2: Re: Airfix 1/400 ship kits?? 3: Re: The "Tragedy" at Midway 4: Re: Airfix 1/400 Ships 5: Flags 6: Re: Paravanes 7: Re: Airfix 1/400 Ships 8: Re: Airfix 1/400 ships 9: Re: Brooklyn class cruiser 1/350 10: Re: Paravanes 11: Fujimi reproductions 12: Re: Dockyard Mateys 13: BWN 1/350 O.H. Perry kit 14: Misc. 15: Dumb Question 16: Fighter direction ship conversion -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: New GMM products 2: For Sell or Trade 3: Dockyard Scumbuckets.. new US diorama accessories! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS Note from Shane Hi gang, Just a quick note to remind everyone to doublecheck where they send SMML posts. Please make sure you send them here to mailto:shipmodels@tac.com.au . Beacuse of Greg's work commitments, if you send posts to the old address (shipmodels@wr.com.au), it may take at least a couple of days for them to reach me here. Also if you come across any sites that still have the old address listed, could you inform me, so I can tell them the "new" address. This way, hopefully it'll save bother all around. Have a great weekend, Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "foeth" Subject: Re: Paravanes >> IIRC, paravanes were used for minesweeping. In that they're towed by the ship to help prevent mines hitting warships. They were also used in mine hunting as well. << If you tow a paravane, isn't the first thing that will encounter the mine the ship itself? I thought the paravanes were selfpropelled units, attached with cables to the ship which could guide the mine anchor chains away from the ship. Bismarck even had a special rod system in the stem (S device) below the waterline which could be extended as an attachement point. EJ Foeth IIRC, they were towed from the bow, or there abouts. Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "joseph w. reyna" Subject: Re: Airfix 1/400 ship kits?? >> I heard from Felix Bustelo (who heard from a "very reliable source") that Airfix produced a 1/400 Normandie and a 1/400 Andrea Doria in the early 1970s. Has anyone ever seen one of these kits? Does anyone have one they don't want and are willing to sell? << >> I'd be interested in finding out about this as well. Because AFAIK, Airfix has never produced these ships (shades of the Miles Juniper). It's also possible I suppose, that Airfix marketed these ships somewhere else under another name as well. I also checked the Shiplist & couldn't find any reference there as well. << Les/Shane, et al SMMLers.... I have been asked also to verify the existence of an AIRFIX kit of the liner NORMANDIE, which I was led to understand was done in 1/600 scale. Confessing to my total ignorance of ocean liners, I'd like to know whether the NORMANDIE is a sister ship to any other ocean liner that is known to be in kit form by AIRFIX, or anyone else for that matter. IOW, could the NORMANDIE simply be built by modifying another ocean liner kit? Cheers All. Joe Reyna -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "FERNANDO, YOHAN" Subject: Re: The "Tragedy" at Midway I agree there were alot of historical/narrative inaccuracies- another besides the clips mentioned were the images of Nagato and/or Mutsu firing their main batteries, when it was the Kongos that were with Nagumo's Striking Force... But in almost any historical documentary I've seen, there are always pieces of footage that are not 100% appropriate. And in most cases, there can't be. Filmmakers have to make do with what footage is available (ie. what was shot at the time) and often you get these stills from artists 'interpretations' to make up where absolutely nothing is remotely suitable. A good example of this is the Yamato. There are no motion pictures of her or Musashi that I know of- only a small number of photos (which I think we've all seen countless of times!). Programs mentioning the Yamato resort to these photos and a couple of paintings (and once to my horror a motion picture of the Nagato... aah!) I think that as relative 'experts' on these subjects, we have to accept this limitation and be happy when it isn't carried to an extreme. Overall, I think the film producers did a good job to at convey the feeling of the actions being described. Better than many other attempts I've seen. The film did focus on Ballard quite a bit, but then again, that was what the film was really about- Ballard's search for the carriers, not the battle itself. The historical information was there for background to the unitiated and all of Ballard's books use this technique of switching back and forth between the historical narrative and the present-day. It usually works quite well. I wish there had been a bit more footage of the sunken Yorktown, though. I think hearing what the four vets said and felt was the most moving part of the film. All of them could only remember the horrors of the battle and their lost comrades and adversaries. One of the US vets mentioned that when he saw the Yorktown keel over and sink, he wondered how we could be so 'civilized' to be fighting each other in such a manner. That there is no joy or celebration on the part of these vets, but only a solemn reminder of the sacrifices made that day by those who died, is where the 'tragedy' is. Even after 54 years, they could only break down in tears at what they had lived through. All the victories and celebration cannot erase their memories or bring back the two thousand or so young men lost that day. I am relatively young (26 yrs) and have never lived through any real wartime hardships, yet always find myself moved when I hear first-hand accounts of WWII battles (or any for for that matter). And I don't think anyone would want to go through those same experiences. Sure the film is not perfect, but it hopefully it helped remind people the price paid by both sides during WWII for what we all enjoy today. (sorry for the ranting!) Yohan Fernando -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: Felix Bustelo Subject: Re: Airfix 1/400 Ships Hi folks, Let me elaborate on the info I provide Les Case - in my webmaster duties, several modellers have asked me about the existence of a kit of the Normandie. I don't remember the specific circumstances, but I think someone said they remembered a Normandie kit from a long time ago and was wondering if it was still around. I had sent an e-mail to Bill Bayer, who is a very reliable source went it comes to classic kits and has a fun website with box art images of old Revell kits, to ask if he knew if a kit of the Normandie ever existed. His reply was that Airfix had released both a Normandie and Andrea Doria kit in 1/400 scale in the early 1970's. I too has surprised by the scale and thought maybe it was actually Heller, but he was pretty certain that it was Airfix. Since I was only a child back then, I cannot confirm this bit of info one way or the other. The existence of a Normandie kit seems plausible since a modeller that I had met at a show remembers it. This guy made an incredible scratch built (1/192 scale methinks) model of the Normandie that was to die for. The most incredible piece of modelling that I had ever seen. It was built by commission for a restaurant owner. Sorry, I digress. Anyhow, that's my story and I am sticking to it. So, anybody out there know of these kits? Oh - here is a link to Bill Bayer's site: http://members.aol.com/billbayer/kcchome.htm Felix Bustelo http://members.tripod.com/~Febus65/imm.htm So, anybody out there know of these kits? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: Darren Scannell Subject: Flags Hi gang; A couple of questions about flags, if you please. 1. Are signal flags the same size for all sizes of warships, or do destroyers have smaller flags than BB's? Are modern Sigs the same size as WWII Sigs? And does every country use the same size flag? 2. Anyone know the Ensign size used for each type of vessel? Each country? Where would I find out this kind of info? (in this case I know each vessel has a certain size, but do not know that size say for a BB, CA, DD, FF, etc.) Thanks Darren Scannell -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: Ken Goldman <187clue@my-dejanews.com> Subject: Re: Paravanes Since paravanes are towed from the bow of the ship, they would not prevent the paravane-equiped ship from running into a mine. The torpedo-shaped paravanes would either trip mines themselves during sweeping, or, what they were supposed to do, their cables would cut looses moored mines bringing them to the surface where they could be removed or destroyed. Ken Goldman THE WALRUS AND THE CARPENTER http://www.wman.com/~khgold/ Hi Ken, Yeah, I remembered they were towed from the bow, right after I sent last night's edition out :-(. Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: "Les Case" Subject: Re: Airfix 1/400 Ships Hello, Shane, Thank you for responding to my question (you're in Australia-- where it's late autumn -- right?). (Actually technically it's mid Autumn ;-): Shane) I had mentioned to Felix that if our campaign to get Humbrol to rerelease the Airfix 1/600 Queen Elizabeth worked, we should lobby them for a 1/600 Normandie. He said it was more likely that Hell would host the winter Olympics. He also mentioned Heller as a possible manufacturer for a new kit, but he was pretty clear that Airfix was the company that marketed the Normandie and Andrea Doria in the 1970s. I was excited, but skeptical because my local dealer swears that no one has ever offered a plastic kit of the Normandie. Too bad; somebody really ought to. Also, please forgive my ignorance, but what (or who) is Miles Juniper? Les Case (in Texas, where it's late spring, but (weirdly) feels more like autumn-- at least today, anyway.) Hi Les, The Miles Juniper is another "lost" Airfix (1/72 aircraft) kit that came out of the blue at this years Melbourne Hobby Expo. A mate of mine took some pics of it & I've passed them on to Jonathan Mock. Between us, we sorta worked out that it's a clever practical joke. Hopefully the pics will be posted shortly on his page & the soon TBA APMA page (I'm working hard on it at the moment). Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: "Douglas Martin" Subject: Re: Airfix 1/400 ships Folks: I think someone has made an error here, no way did Airfix produce 1/400 ships (ever), they are all 1/600 or 1/1200 if you are talking about non sailing ships.(and 1/72 for the MTB/E Boat/RAF Launch) Heller are more likely the manufacturer, Airfix a definite no - I've bought all the Airfix warships from the 60s to 70s. Douglas (Scotland) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: Dave Judy Subject: Re: Brooklyn class cruiser 1/350 Been wishing for this puppy for a long time! I just recieved a USS Nashville from ISW today! I will be taking a closer look in the next few days......As soon as I wipe off the drool! Dave Judy -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: "chenyangzhang" Subject: Re: Paravanes Paravanes were used by all navies (and carried by all ships up to battleship size) and did 2 things. Either they cut a moored mines cable allowing it to float to the surface for disposal or they trapped and caught the mine against the paravanes head which was explosive. End of mine but also end of the poor paravane. Chris Langtree -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: "chenyangzhang" Subject: Fujimi reproductions I know of 2 reproductions, the AA cruiser Isuzu by Tamiya and the Heavy Cruiser Chikuma by Aoshima. Both are incredible improvements on the originals and build into excellent replicas, especially with the addition of etched brass and other detailing parts. I would assume the same for all the others, a general improvement in quality (I can't believe I'm saying this about an Aoshima kit+ACE-) Chris Langtree What the hell happened to spring, its sub-zero temperatures every night -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: CBNJBB62@aol.com Subject: Re: Dockyard Mateys Hi Just out of curiosity for Caroline what is the relationship between dock mates and the Royal Navy in the UK? We showed you our closet of skeletons. Craig Bennett -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: Loren Perry Subject: BWN 1/350 O.H. Perry kit A little history of the BWN kit's origins: it was originally designed in 1988 by John Ficklen and myself (Loren Perry of Gold Medal Models) for his then fledgling Blue Water Navy series (now known as Gulfstream Models.) John, a two-time winner of the Judges' Grand Award at the IPMS/USA Nationals and a former US Navy SH-3 helo pilot and (at that time) a pilot for Eastern Airlines, did the master patterns for the hull, superstructure, and all the small fittings. My responsibility was the design and manufacture of the photoetch details and the design of the original instruction booklet. Because I was still an active duty Navy recruiter assigned to NRD Jacksonville at the time, I was able to visit the USS Estocin (FFG-15), USS Oliver Hazard Perry (FFG-7), and USS McInerny (FFG-8) which were all based at Naval Station Mayport in Jacksonville, FL during this period. I requested and was granted permission to go aloft in the Estocin's masts with my camera and photograph this ship from every angle - these photos were put to use in the making of the masters. The Navy also furnished us with the builder's blueprints. I did not yet have a computer in 1988, so all the artwork for the masts, railings, and radars were executed by hand in 1/175 scale and later photographically reduced to 1/350. There was no relief-etched detailing on this early design. (Later, when I brought out the 1/700 scale versions of the FFG parts in GMM's 700-10 Modern USN fittings set, I used the same documentation and by this time I was using a computer for making the PE master drawings.) John Ficklen and I worked closely to ensure all parts fit together properly. The first built-up model which appeared on the original boxtop was assembled and painted by the very talented Mr. Lonnie Ottzen of Atlanta who is a musician with the Atlanta Symphony Orchestra. A few years after this kit was introduced, it was acquired by MB Models who also retained the Blue Water Navy name. Two other models, the 1/350 DD-1 Bainbridge and the 1/350 SSN-688 Los Angeles, were produced by John and myself with similar techniques, and these, too, were acquired by MB Models along with the FFG. This particular model, the 1/350 Oliver Hazard Perry, was the very first known resin/photoetch/white metal model ship kit produced in North America for the general market. The Bainbridge was the second, and the Los Angeles was the third. I still have samples of each of the original issues. So in closing, whenever you see a photo or model of a 1/350 FFG-7 and you have any problems with the photoetched masts, radars, or whatnot - blame me. I was the one who did it. As for the rest, John Ficklen was the original talent behind it. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: Steve Singlar Subject: Misc. Greetings, Regarding the Midway program, wish there were more views of the Yorktown. On the USS Enterprise web site (www.cv6.org) a lady is looking for some place to buy line drawings or "blue prints" of the Enterprise for her father-in-law a former crew member. I suggested Floating Drydock. Any other suggestions? Any good hobby shops in Hawaii? Will be there soon. Thanks, Steve Singlar -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: "Joe Norris" Subject: Dumb Question Greetings all, I've been building models for nearly 20 years now and today somebody asked me what the difference between glue and cement was. I couldn't articulate anything of value. Can any of you help me out with this one? Joe & Adrienne Norris -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: "Cooper, Mike" Subject: Fighter direction ship conversion Dear All I'm just starting work on a Fighter Direction Ship conversion of the Skywave LST. I'm OF on the details, and have the camo pattern sorted, and a probable match on the colours. However, does anyone know for certain what colours were used. I have IWM photos of two RN FDT (Fighet Direction Tenders) off Normany in a bold three tone scheme. I believe this to be B55, G10 and B30 on the basis of similar schemes (G10 deck) Of course all I can actually say is its light, medium and dark - my real query is the base tone. Anyone know for certain if its B55 or G45 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Loren Perry Subject: New GMM products Here's a note about some new GMM detail sets: The 1/700 IJN Auxiliary Ship set is scheduled for release in about a month from now. In fact, the parts themselves have been finished for two months and are on the shelf - all that remains is completion of the instruction sheet artwork which is about 3/4 finished as of this writing. It will complete any TWO different ships of currently available IJN Auxiliary ship classes including the Akashi, Jingei, Chogei, Chitose, Chiyoda, and even the soon-to-be-released Skywave Akitsushima seaplane tender. Skywave/Pit-Road's currently available upgraded Akashi kit uses the Akashi portion of this set; GMM was commissioned by Pit-Road several months ago to produce this special set just for this kit which is a limited edition item. Pit-Road also furnished us with actual IJN blueprints and photos to help us ensure correctness in detail, so this will be the best IJN set we've ever done to date. Price will be $18, and once again this is a two-in-one set with enough railing, cranes, catapults, and other items for two complete models of any two different classes. Its GMM number is 700-27. Shipping should commence around mid-May. The other new GMM set is the all-new 1/700 Tarawa/Saipan set (GMM No. 700-26, priced at $18) This one is a large set like the IJN Auxiliary Ship product (both are the same size as the new GMM 1/720 USN Supercarrier set) and contains nets, railing, radars, ECM platforms, crane, safety cage ladders, forklift details, and lots more for one of these large ships. Also furnished are details for up to sixteen helicopters of three different types (AH-1, CH-46, and CH-53E) Design is complete and test pieces are due here next week. The instruction sheet artwork is now underway. This set should be ready in late May. Both were delayed by external factors but we're getting back on schedule again. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: Gary Au Subject: For Sell or Trade Hi-Mold 1/700 Resin USS LCC-19 Blue Ridge for USD100.00 Pit-Road 1/700 Metal USAF B-36 Peace Maker for USD17.60 Best Wishes! Gary. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "Caroline Carter"