Subject: SMML22/04/99VOL523 Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 00:46:03 +1000 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Revell's mystery tanker 2: Tiniest drill 3: Re: IJN references 4: Re: DC area hobby shops 5: Re: HP Modell De Ruyter & Tromp 6: CVE 7: Re: Normandie 8: WEM Upgrades 9: Re: HP Models 10: Introduction 11: Re: RN China Station Colors 12: Re: long vs short hull Perry's 13: USS Pine Island boat (plane) cranes 14: Re: 1/350 Gearing 15: Bismarck Again?! 16: Interest Survey for new 1/700 or 350 subs 17: Re: CIMARRON kits in resin 18: Re: Eagle kits 19: QE2 Trivia Quiz answer 20: Information about Dean's Marine 21: Re: Future SUb Models 22: Re: DC area hobby shops 23: Re: 1/800 Aircraft Carriers 24: Shaping a deck 25: Card Model Normandie 26: Re: French ironclads/predreadnoughts 27: Re: HP Models 28: Re: Question on BWN Furutaka -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: USS Enterprise CVN-65 references 2: Re: Miniataure Merchant Ships by John Bowen 3: Re: Miniature Merchant Ships Book wanted 4: Re: 1/400 PINE ISLAND CRANES -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Bonini S.r.l." Subject: Revell's mystery tanker Hi, I am an italian plastic ship modeller, and would like to add some comments about the "Sovereign of the Seas". In fact, I bought this Revell kit some years ago (IFRC, 1982-83) in a normal Italian hobby model shop: the characteristics are exactly as mentioned by Loren Perry, but the origin is not Revell, but Heller. I am absolutely sure of this as, during the sixties, when I was a boy, I received the same kit as a gift: only, the model was issued by Heller, under the name "BP Lavera" and the parts were also in two colours, white and black instead of grey. When I opened the box of the "Sovereign" I remember I was quite surprised in recognizing my old "BP Lavera", as, at that time, the practice of moulds exchanges between different companies was not so common. By the way, if somebody is interested, I can sell the kit of the "Sovereign", which is still untouched in the original box as, for a lot of reasons, I never built the model. Best greetings to everybody, Giusto Gallas -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "foeth" Subject: Tiniest drill Where can I get a drill smaller than 0.3mm (0.0118")? Evert-Jan Foeth -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "FERNANDO, YOHAN" Subject: Re: IJN references Joe, In regards to general references for the IJN (especially pre-war), try "Kaigun". I can't recall the auhors off the top of my head, but a search by that title on Amazon.com should give you all in the info. While it is not a photo reference, the material on the technology and tactics that the IJN developed between the two World Wars is fascinating and really gives insight to why they fought the Pacific War the way they did. The reasons for heavy torpedo armaments on cruisers and destroyers, tall 'pagoda' towers on their battleships and other IJN peculiars are explained and examined. Most of the material presented was new to me and the book is the best general IJN reference I have come across. Yohan Fernando -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: Gene Larson Subject: Re: DC area hobby shops For DC area hobby shops check the Washington Ship Model Society's web site at: http://www.gst.com/wsms/ Right now (Wed am) it has a problem, but that should be corrected by the webmaster. Gene Larson, Alexandria, Virginia mailto:genenrg@Naut-Res-Guild.org Nautical Research Guild, Inc. http://www.Naut-Res-Guild.org "A non-profit, tax exempt, educational organization with international membership, dedicated to maritime research and accurate ship model building." -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: "Jeffrey Roberts" Subject: Re: HP Modell De Ruyter & Tromp In response to Robert Lockie, I have the HP Modell De Ruyter (and the Tromp is on order). The De Ruyter is a fairly nice kit. No PE but the casting is nice. The parts came on resin wafers which needed to be sanded a bit to clean them up before assembly. The 40 mm Bofors mounts aren't great but WEM was/is going to release a 40mm Bofors twin mount at some point and I'd suggest replacing the ones that come with the kit. There are resin mast castings on the part-wafers which I used as templates for making masts out of brass rod. My kit is not quite complete yet, but overall I am very satisfied with it. Best wishes, Jeffrey Roberts North Hollywood, California -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: ALTON007@aol.com Subject: CVE I'm just about Finnish with my Salem and it ready has been fun building but what's next. Has anyone built the USS Cambier from Bluejacket Crafters or know anything about this kit. I know its a big one and will go easy on my eyes...... Thanks, Andy -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: "Les Case" Subject: Re: Normandie >> Normandie: A model of the Normandie would be snapped up as quickly as I could get to the store, in either 1/350 or 1/600, though I'd prefer the latter for the sake of space. I'd probably take two: one for Normandie and one for USS Lafayette. << Me too; I might even camp on a sidewalk for one. So if somebody were to draught a form letter to a model company advocating issuance of a new Normandie kit, how many SMML subscribers would be willing to copy and mail it? How many letters would it take? To what company? White Ensign Models maintain that they need to sell fifty kits to recover R/D costs on a new resin subject (RMS Aquitania). Felix Bustelo thinks that Heller might be interested in issuing a new 1/400 kit, but that Humbrol/Airfix would not be. Les Case -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: "foeth" Subject: WEM Upgrades Good thing those UP launchers are now finally available without the need to buy a complete kit. Anyway, if WEM is going to release more of these upgrade kits, what about some: - seperate boats, rafts and launches (with those *very* nice etchings?) - 2 lbs pompoms - well, just a lot of the nice stuff they have in /1700 Evert-Jan Foeth Soon to be ruled by dutch King William the Fat IV -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: "chenyangzhang" Subject: Re: HP Models Robert White Ensign list both the De Ruyter and Tromp Chris Langtree -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: "Peter Hall" Subject: Introduction Hi, Shane and Greg, Greetings to everyone out there and many thanks for allowing me to join your list of merry ship modellers. It has, I must admit, taken me far too long to enter the realms of the internet, and with a lot of arm twisting from Caroline Carter, I am now online and ready to put my bit in, as and when necessary. I have spent a few days reading what you folks are getting up to, and I am amazed at how much interest there is in the hobby down under, especially in inland areas. As you are no doubt aware, my main task in life at the moment, is producing patterns and photo etch for White Ensign Models, but as a small sideline I have started the Atlantic Models range which is basically me investing in a small run of Ship kits or etched accessories that Dave and Caroline are not interested in marketing. (Hoots of laughter ring out, as people wonder why the hell Hall has gone and done that.) Ok. fine. It keeps me happy, and possibly a minority of ship modellers as well. Hopefully I will be able to gain a lot of ideas and valuable information from ship modellers all over, as well as be able to give my ideas over to anyone who wants them. Good Modelling !! Peter Hall. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: John Snyder Subject: Re: RN China Station Colors An article in Airfix Magazine in June 1978 described the colors as: White hull and upperworks, buff funnels, masts and yards, bleached wooden decks, light grey metal decks, with metal foc's'l deck in either dark grey or green. Another article in Airfix Magazine in October 1977 described the buff color as "primrose yellow." As far as color matches using model paints, I'll have to check with my partner--and I'm on my way to Nevada for a couple of days, so.... John Snyder Snyder & Short Enterprises The Paint Guys -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: Darren Scannell Subject: Re: long vs short hull Perry's >> Which* OHPs are short hulls and *which* ones are the long hulls ?!?!? << According to the USS Salem site, World Fleet Lists: US Aircraft Carriers & Surface Combatants, FFG 9,11-15,19,23,29,30,31 & 33 are all shorts. The rest are long, up to and including FFG 61. Not included in the list are 1-7 which are decom'd. I'm not sure when the list was last updated, so there may be even more of these vessels decom'd. Regards Darren Scannell (note to Shane, Nice Krivak, but it's not a 1/350 Kirov) : ) Tkanks for the comment. And as for the 1/350 Kirov, well (he says in his best baiting voice), I don't model in braille scale ;-þ. Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: "Bruce Burden" Subject: USS Pine Island boat (plane) cranes >> The Gold Medal Models 1/400 set has cranes and other parts for the Pine Island. I haven't used them, though, as I mucked up the model (my hangar was trapezoidal, and those rails... ). << DOH! Well, that is what I get for not looking at the GMM web site first! Thanks! Okay, does anybody make 1/400 weapon sets? The 5"/38's are perhaps passable, but the 40mm's and 20mm's are pretty bad. Well, actually they are wonderful "blobs `o plastic". :-) And the Mariner doesn't look to be a whole lot better. I suppose it makes a nice (bit tiny) cheese grater... Bruce -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: 1/350 Gearing I have a 1/700 FRAM Gearing on my shelf. It's a great looking model but will need some PE to improve it. I used my Flagship Models Knox Class Frigate set (shameless plug) and it worked beautifully. If you want a 1/350 Gearing MB Models makes an excellent kit with full photo etch with it. Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. http://www.okclive.com/flagship/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: Ophelia Subject: Bismarck Again?! Hello everyone, The other day I was looking at photos of the Bismarck for reference and noted something strange. As you know there are several pictures of Bismarck after the Hood/Prince of Whales battle but for some reason the one were the Bismarck looks like she is becoming a submarine is by far the most popular and everywhere. The rest of this series is somewhat similar with another being where you can the Prinz Eugen checking Bismarcks condition (oil slick). Furthermore some pictures are fuzzy but some are decent (like the first one I noted). If you look at some of the pictures you will note that the guns seem to be a lighter colour on the top and angled armour than the rest of the gun or any of the superstructure. At first I thought this was the way the light was falling, but it seems consistant in all the pictures for one (reguardless of angle) and also in some photos the light should make the gun and parts of the superstruture similarily toned but they are not. The sky appears overcast so this would give less reason for these items to stick out so noticably. The main guns and rear secondary guns appear this way and the forward secondary guns seem to have very dark tops from all perspectives. In fact even the funnel cap does not seem as bright as the turret tops. Now let me say that I am not a supporter of the yellow turret top theory but this has sort of grabbed me and I am wondering if this has been noticed before or am I looking at lighting effects? I hope you can take an unbias honest look at these pictures (preferably not in thumbnail size) before I am discreditted, that is I am not really sure of them myself but would like another opinion. I have just gone through a pile of photos of Bismarck (and Tirpitz) searching for the common affect I noted above, but failed to find one. The closest I got was when she was just about completed her forward guns and turrets seemed lighter than the rest of the ship. I know these are black and whites but I think I am starting to convince myself... Mark A. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: Ed Grune Subject: Interest Survey for new 1/700 or 350 subs Joe: I'd cast a vote for most of these in 700th. I believe that the Seawolf, Sturgeon, Kilo and Akula are already available in 350th, but I'd like to see them in the smaller scale. . The Oberon & Collins classes would be interesting in the larger scale and would probably be good sellers. I'd like to put forward for consideration some of the earlier Soviet diesel boats, say a Whiskey (plus variants such as Long Bin and Canvas Bag), Foxtrot, Tango or Golf. The Echo II exists in 700th, but I'd like to see it in 350th. for Louis ... The Trafalgar, Oscar, and Delta IV are availale in 1/700th scale in the DML line of kits. They're probably not in production but you might be able to find them on one of the kit collectors lists. Ed Mansfield, TX There's a strong wind out of the south. I think I see Houston blowing past my window. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: dhjonespsm@juno.com Subject: Re: CIMARRON kits in resin >> The company that made the Cimmaron kit was Jim Shirley Productions and unfortunately is now out of business. I saw a Cimmaron kit just this weekend at the Region 6 convention in New Orleans. George Lewis at Village Hobby Shop had one and if you can find him he would be happy to sell it. He's located in Austin Texas I believe. He has an email address so if you contact me off post I'll let you have it. His address is under another screen name so I would have to shut down this one to get to it. << Hey Rusty, We were talking old injection molded plastic kits here. If you want to include resin, there were/are three kits that have been made of this class, plus another on the way, although two of them are the same kit marketed under different labels. 1. Naval Works (1/700) was the first to do this class, and though it was a bit underscale, for its day it was a nice kit. It is long gone now of course. The kit was one of the first American kits in this scale to include photoetch parts, mainly for the catwalks and the cargo platform. 2. Jim Shirley Productions re-issued the Naval Works kit without the photoetch, which means that in order to build it you have to scratch build all the missing bits including the catwalks. No alternate resin parts were provided. And BTW - Jim Shirley is certainly not out of business - he is just no longer making the ship kits. 3. Bureau of Small Warships (1/700) currently available. No photo etch is included so all the between decks supports and cargo deck supports will have to be fabricated. One error concerns the bridge levels - each level is progressively narrower in beam, whereas the model has them all the same width. Some detailing and correction is needed but it is a reasonable kit in terms of value for the price. 4. Coming .... Loose Cannon has been working on a pattern for future release of this class, probably late in the year or in early 2000. After seeing their T-2 kits this may be the one to get. Daniel Jones Plastic Ship Modeler -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: dhjonespsm@juno.com Subject: Re: Eagle kits John Maine wrote... >> A question: did the Eagle kits ever make it to the States, or elsewhere, back in the early 60's? At that time they were all over the place here in Canada (at least in Ontario anyways); it seemed that practically every variety and gift shop carried some of them, but by the mid-60's they were totally gone from the shelves. Anybody out there remember building them? << John, Thank you for the information about the Eagle ALTMARCK kit. Actually I built several of the Eagle kits back in the early sixties, but I knew them as Pyro kits. Only later (long after the parent company's demise) did I learn about the rest of the line, and it was much too late to get any of them, thus I was not sure if the ALTMARCK was actually issued. I built all of the Pyro series, some of them more than once. They were starting to disappear when I discovered them and so I cleaned off the hobby shop shelves of any that were left. Unfortunately I do not have any of these models anymore. Pyro "played it safe" and only brought in a few capital ships and cruisers, none of the destroyers or merchant types. There were eight kits in all and I had (and built) them all. These were: VICTORIOUS, WARSPITE, KG-V, PRINCE OF WALES, BISMARCK, PRINZ EUGEN, NORFOLK, and DORSETSHIRE. After the first series (ex-Eagle) kits were gone Pyro started their own series to continue the 1/1200 scale line, four different ship classes - American and Japanese. There were 12 different boxes but these were just name changes - there were no differences between the sister ships, only four basic kits, (ESSEX , N.DAKOTA, SHOKAKU, and YAMATO classes). This second series from Pyro was nowhere near the quality of the British imports. The only way I ever saw the Eagle kits (in Colorado) was in Pyro boxes. I was later told that Pyro just marketed the eight kits in the USA under license while Eagle was still in business, and thus they were dropped when the parent company closed down. Presumably the tooling remained in England, but I have never heard whether it was sold when Eagle closed down. I wonder if any of this tooling still exists. Daniel Jones Plastic Ship Modeler -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: Dave Swindell Subject: QE2 Trivia Quiz answer >> I think QE2 was the second Cunard liner named after the Elizabeth that married King George VI and who became Queen because of that. She is the present Queen Mother. Pieter Cornelissen Delft, The Netherlands, Which has not had a king in living memory. << Congratulations Pieter, we have a winner. Until her launch, the QE2's name was a closely guarded secret, only senior management at Cunard knew, and the name was placed in two envelopes, one for the naming ceremony, and one in a safe in New York for release to the American press when the ceremony was complete. Up until then she was known by the design designation Q4. When the envelope was handed to Queen Elizabeth II (Happy Birthday Ma'am, 73 today!) She is reputed to have said "I don't think I'll be needing that" and went ahead with "I name this ship Queen Elizabeth the Second, may God bless, etc" This put Cunard management in a dilemma, the name in the envelope was just Queen Elizabeth! After a hurried meeting it was decided that the name Queen Elizabeth 2 should be used, not Queen Elizabeth II for two reasons; firstly the name of the reigning monarch was reserved for use only on a capital ship of the Royal Navy; and secondly as the ship was built on the Clyde in Scotland and as Queen Elizabeth II is Queen Elizabeth the First of Scotland, this would have been considered to be an insult to the Scots who built her. As the original Queen Elizabeth was named by, and in honour of Queen Elizabeth, King George VI's wife, the QE2 was therefore the second Cunard liner to have that privelidge. If you were a betting man the odds on the name Queen Elizabeth on launching were very good, a 14 to 1 outsider! On the subject of anecdotal war stories involving the Navy and a Cunarder, I like the one about the Queen Mary steaming into the Mediterranian. On receiving a challenge from shore "What Ship?, What Ship?" the Queen Mary's master is reputed to have told the signalman to make the reply "What Rock?, What Rock?"! This story was confirmed to me by an Engineer I sailed with who sailed as 97th Engineer on the Mary, in sole charge of the Stbd Inner shaft tunnel on the 8 to 12 watch: it must be true! ;-) Dave Swindell -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: "David Zimmerman" Subject: Information about Dean's Marine I am considering buying the 1/96 scale USS Robert E. Perry from Dean's Marine and would like more information concerning the quality of there kits. Do they include all of the detail parts or do you have to go else where to acquire them? I would like several opinions before I spend that amount of money. Thank you for your help in this matter. David -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 21) From: Ives100@aol.com Subject: Re: Future SUb Models Hi Joe- The Seawolf and Sturgeon class subs are availabel in 1:350 from Blue Water Navy, and in 1:700 from Ralph Ratcliffe. Both scales are superb resin models. No one has touched the Chinese boats, so those would be very good choices. A number of very visually interesting US submarines where done in the '50's, including the Tang class diesel boats, the Grayback/Growler SSG boats, the SSGN Halibut, the twin reactor Triton, the second SSN, Seawolf (SSN 575), and the Skate class of attack subs. Except for Triton, none have been modelled to my knowledge. Tom Dougherty -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 22) From: Jay Schantzen Subject: Re: DC area hobby shops 1. Would Highly reccommend the the Archives II in College Park, MD. (just outside the beltway). The store of ships plans, photo's and microfilim is unbelievable. I'd try to allot at least a day because you do have to wait for the staff to pull selections, which they do at certain times. 2. Granddads hobbies in northern VA has a good selection of GMM photoetch. 3. Navy yard museum in DC 4. If you can get to Annapolis (~45 min) The naval academy museum is quite good, and has a good bookstore with most of the Naval Institute books. They also have some ships photos. All should be in the phone book. Jay Schantzen - formerly of MD now of sunny(?) Minnesota -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 23) From: Eric Phan Subject: Re: 1/800 Aircraft Carriers Hi gang, >> The other difficulty will be finding modern aircraft for it in 1/800 scale ( it comes with F4's and A4's). You might be able to use 1/700 aircraft and photoetch although they are slightly oversize. << I have an ARII 1/800 Theodore Roosevelt, and it comes with other types of modern USN aircraft ... it's inside a box in my store room, but I can dig it out and check what aircraft are included if anyone's interested. Having said that, it's a bit hard to justify buying another full kit just to get the accessories ... I don't believe that they released the aircraft as a separate kit. >> GMM makes a photoetch set for the 1/700 Supercarriers which should work well. << I've been contemplating this set for the 1/800 carrier ... how badly oversized would it look ? Thanks, Eric -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 24) From: ellison@connection.com Subject: Shaping a deck Hello all, I wonder if anyone can help me with this little problem? I am building a french cruiser (circa 1937)from plans that I obtained from Taubmans. This is my first scratch build and I am not sure how to shape the deck and keep it symmetrical. Any information will be welcome. Thank you Jon. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 25) From: Louis Dausse Subject: Card Model Normandie The 1:400 scale card model Normandie I mentioned the other day is a brand new design from the Polish company that puts out about 60 ships at this time. I negelected to mention that we also have a real oldie. A Normandie that was put out in the 1930's by Kellogg. A fellow in Southern California has been reprinting it and another Kellogg's ship, the Queen Mary, for about 15 years now. The old models are a kick. They were for kids and rather crude but very interesting. Especially in comparing the old and the new model. Once again, anyone interested let me know and I'll send information on both.-- and on about 1,000 other models. mailto:l.dausse.pmi@worldnet.att.net Lou Dausse, Paper Models International -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 26) From: Kindrachuk, Mark Subject: Re: French ironclads/predreadnoughts A remarkable discussion of colour schemes can be found at page 99 of the book "Les Cuirassés Redoutable, Dévastation, Courbet: programme de 1872" by Marc Saibène. Mr. Saibène indicates that it is based on the painstaking research of Jean Guiglini (presumably in the archives in Toulon, and perhaps elsewhere). It indicates that, at least for a period during the 1880s, the funnels of capital ships were painted in different colours in order to indicate their divisional assignment. The following is my attempt at translation of this information. I hope its length will not annoy too many of the readers of this list; I know it will be of great interest to a few. Regrettably, I have not been able to discern the meaning of a few of the terms used (these have been left in the original French). Perhaps some reader with greater linguistic attainments can supply English versions for these. 1879/1898 Before beginning their trials, the battleships entered drydock for a final cleaning. Seven coats of black paint (Sim paint) were applied to the upperworks, and two coats of red lead, followed by two coats of Schweinfurth green to the immersed areas. During the first commissioning of the Redoutable and the Dévastation the funnels were black; the superstructure, bridge and inside of the bulwarks were white. By order no. 45 of 9 December 1879, the funnels of battleships and the stacks of steam launches in the Escadre d Evolution were painted in different colours depending upon the assignment of the ships to divisions of the squadron. However, the archives contain only fragmentary records of these distinctions, and we can only provide reliable information for certain periods. February 1887 the squadron was organized as follows: - 1st Division: Colbert, Amiral Duperré, Courbet: yellow ochre funnels - 2nd Division: Dévastation, Redoutable, Trident: grey funnels - 3rd Division: Indomptable, Suffren, Richelieu: colour not specified. These colours were maintained in June 1887, but the 3rd Division disappeared and the 2nd Division (grey funnels) comprised the Dévastation, Trident and Indomptable. On 1 March 1888: - 1st Division: Colbert, Amiral Duperré, Courbet: yellow ochre funnels - 2nd Division: Dévastation, Redoutable, Indomptable: grey funnels Black bands on the funnels indicated the place of each ship in the divisional line. Thus, in 1882, the Rédoutable had two bands on her funnel, as the 2nd ship of the 1st Division of the Escadre d Evolution. These bands disappeared in 1887. In 1889, the funnel bands were reinstated in order to indicate the division: - 1st Division: Colbert, Courbet, Amiral Baudin: no band - 2nd Division: Dévastation, Duguesclin, Bayard: 1 band - 3rd Division: Amiral Duperré, Redoutable: 2 bands In May 1895 the three divisions of the Mediterranean Squadron were distinguished as follows: - 1st Division: no pennants or bands - 2nd Division: a white pennant on the foremast and a black band (30cm) on the funnel (Redoutable, Courbet, Dévastation) - 3rd Division: red pennants on both masts and two black bands (20cm) on the funnel In 1886, note 241 of 21 December prescribed the removal of the colour white from the exterior of all ships. This prescription was repeated in 1889 and extended to any surface which might provide an aiming point to the enemy. Masts: In 1880, masts were dark oak, but the yards were painted black, as was the fixed metal part of the bowsprit. Boats: Black exterior with white or coloured fillets. As with the funnels, the colour of the sheer rails was subject to variation depending upon the ship's position in the squadron. Around 1880, each ship had its own colour, which permitted the identification of boats during landing exercises. In 1881, the ship s crest began to appear on the bows of the boats. The Redoutable s symbol was a lion. 1898/1910 By a decision of 7 June 1899, a white border was painted along the waterline. This measure was applied until 1908. By a decision of 12 June 1900, commanding officers were invited to paint the funnels of their ships the same colour as the masts and superstructures. The cowls, bourrelets (?) and renforts du can supérieur (?) remained black. In July 1900, the Mediterranean and Northern Squadrons met at Cherbourg. It was then possible to distinguish between the colours of their superstructures: - Mediterranean Squadron: light wet canvas colour on all raised areas, including the bulwarks. - Northern Squadron: light grey, with a black funnel band. Hull entirely black. *A shorter and much less detailed version of this information appears as an appendix to Mr. Saibène's article on the Redoutable, at pp. 31-32 of Warship International, Volume 32, No. 1 (1995). However, it does not draw any conclusions about funnel colours or bands, saying only that the relevant records were destroyed as soon as they became obsolete. Evidently Mr. Guiglini was able to locate some surviving records. **The Saibène book, by the way, is a magnificent accomplishment, bringing together a wealth of information about the three ships named in the title and placing them in the context of the period. It was published by Marines Edition, F-01000 Bourg-en-Bresse, in about 1996 (the book does not seem to bear a date of publication): ISBN 2-909675-16-5. I presume that it is still in print (it was available in the bookshop of the Musée de la Marine in February 1999). -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 27) From: "Pletscher-Lenz-Schneider" Subject: Re: HP Models I got me the TROMP when it first came out. It was a real horrible kit. You could only use the hull. The best you could do with the rest was to throw it into the trash can. Then I got me the same kit again some two years ago, since it was remoulded. It really is better now. But what you get at the price of a high-quality model is still no more than a craftsman kit. All the decks and deck houses are moulded separately on a plate of about 1mm thicknes. So prepare for some hours of sanding. I guess it would be quicker to scratch-build the complete superstructure. Only the funnel which is done very nicely can be removed from this plate without greater problems. The gun turrets, masts and other small parts are moulded on a even thicker plate. I didn't try to cut the gun turrets off, but I thinkt it will be hardly possible without breaking the gun barrels away. Mast and davits are moulded flat on. So you may try to cut these parts out of a resin-plate of about 1.5mm thickness. (You'd better don't waste your time with such kind of nonsence.) There are no white metal or etched brass parts (which is better so, as the metal parts in the first edition of this kit were so clumpsy that you could not identify all parts). On the other hand the KIROV kit of HP Models was fairly nice done. In general HP Models can differ very much in quality, from horrible to average standard quality. In the past the main problem was their casting technique which was way behind the standard. The problem of the new kits, such as the German battlecruisers, seems to be the master pattern. A business partner of HP told me that he is purchasing the masters for a complete model at a price that roughly equals the retail price of one kit. I don't know if this is realy true, but some models are looking like this. The wooden decks of the German battelcruisers, for example, seem to be made of a V-grooved plate with the grooves about 0.5mm wide and at intervals of about 2mm. (I am talking about a 1/700 scale kit !) So my advice is: Don't buy any HP Models kit unless you have looked into the box and examined the contents (or a relyable friend did so for you). Falk Pletscher -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 28) From: RLapadura@aol.com Subject: Re: Question on BWN Furutaka Hi Art and SMML, Sorry it took a couple of days to respond, but here's my quick observations. I got the BWN Furutaka about two weeks ago and have been meaning to put together a box review for everyone, but work and other commitments have conspired against this. In short, the model is very much up to Mr. Bishop's already high reputation as being one of the best in the business. The ship represents the Furutaka as she appeared in '42, during the sea battles around Guadalcanal, where she eventually was sunk. The kit is molded in a light tan resin and the two part hull, split at the waterline, represents the largest part of the kit. Molded onto the hull are the prominent stabilizing bulges on the lower hull, and the elevated no. 2 turret barbett and aft seaplane hanger on the upper hull. All other structures are buildups, thus simplifying the painting of the linoleum and brass decking. The hull shows no signs of warpage or pinholes, and the molding quality is superb. Resin also makes up the bulk of the superstructure and rear deck house, the large trunked and smaller single smokestacks, the three 8" turrets, the two quad 24' torpedo launchers, the various small boats, and two exquisite E7K2 Alf float planes. All other parts are either white medal (large AA guns, Props, rudder and shafts, various gun barrels and torpedo tubes), or on a large, relief-etched, photoetch sheet. As with BWN other kits, the railings are designed to match the prominent bow shear. A generic, IJN decal sheet with all manner of ship and aircraft markings is included. The instruction sheet looks fairly comprehensive, and the inclusion of a rigging diagram is a nice touch. I probably won't be starting this kit for a while, as I'm trying to finish the Northampton, first. I'll submit a more complete review when I start the kit. Bob LaPadura -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Morley, James (London)" Subject: USS Enterprise CVN-65 references I know everyone's heard it all before, but I REALLY would like a copy of the 2 popular, out of print, and irritatingly difficult to find references for USS Enterprise CVN 65 "Air Wing Enterprise" and "Detail and Scale". Someone, somewhere, knows where to find these. Can anyone help???? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: rms Subject: Re: Miniataure Merchant Ships by John Bowen Regarding John Bowen's Miniature Merchant Ships: A Guide to Waterline Ship Modelling in 1/1200 Scale, Rocky Mountain Shipyard stocks and sells this book at 10% below retail. Our price is $36.00 and shipping is free within the United States. Most sincerely, L.D. Norman Rocky Mountain Shipyard http://www.wic.net/~rms/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "Caroline Carter" Subject: Re: Miniature Merchant Ships Book wanted Hi Mike >> Would anyone have an extra copy of "Miniature Merchant Ships: A Guide to Waterline Ship Modeling in 1/1200 Scale" by John Bowen (Conway Press, 1997) that they are willing to sell at a markdown, or would they know a book vender that has this book on sale for less than its $39.95 retail price (which is a little too rich for my wallet)? << Well, I worked it out.. new over here.. it is 20.00 pounds, or about $32.40. If you didn't want it yesterday then surface shipping would be 3.20 pounds, about $5.20, so..... I guess for a total expenditure of $37.60 to include shipping, you've got yourself the book. E-Mail me, Caroline, if interested, as we have several copies in stock. Best Regards, Caroline Carter http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/white.ensign.models White Ensign Models -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: Loren Perry (by way of Greg Lee) Subject: Re: 1/400 PINE ISLAND CRANES In response to Mr. Bruce Burden's request for photoetched cranes for Revell's 1/400 Pine Island: a full set of photoetched crane booms (two small, two large) designed especially for this particular Revell kit plus numerous other fittings are part of the Gold Medal Models 1/400 Naval Ship set (GMM No. 400-1, priced at $36 plus $1 postage.) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume