Subject: SMML23/04/99VOL524 Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 00:30:31 +1000 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: SMML across America 2: HMS Invincible query 3: Question on plans 4: Re: (Revell's Mystery Tanker) 5: Re: IJN references 6: Re: Bismarck colors 7: Normandie & Heller 8: Re: Tiny Drills 9: HMS Devonshire 1941 10: Re: Furutaka and BWN 11: Re: USS Enterprise CVN-65 references 12: French terms 13: Eaglewell kits 14: Re: DC Hobby Shops 15: Resin 16: HMS Repulse 17: Re: Jim Shirley Productions 18: Re: USS Enterprise book 19: Re: DC Hobby shops 20: Re: DC Hobby shops 21: Normandie on T.V. 22: Re: UP Projectors 1/350 23: USS(?) Olympia query 24: PMI Normandie 25: Old Wood Ship Models 26: Re: Subs in 1:700 27: Eagle kits 28: More on mystery tankers -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: Battleship Texas/ New York 2: SMML Website 3: OT: ANZAC cookies!! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: SeaPhoto@aol.com Subject: SMML across America Hello Everyone, I am well on my way across America on my latest photo expedition. Today, I left El Paso, and hope to reach Fredericksburg, TX, home of the Admiral Nimitz Museum. If my fellow SMML'ers can help out, I am looking for additional places to visit along the way, as I am covering ground pretty quickly. So, if you could post your favorite little known museums, used bookstores, model boat shops, whatever might interest a warship and ocean liner enthusiast, I'd sure appreciate it. Of particular interest would be large scale models in capitol buildings and other non-maritime settings. A comprehenive list might be useful to our archives for future use by visitors to various parts of the country. From here, my route will be along the gulf coast to photograph the museum ships and then off to Pensacola and Jacksonville. But please don't limit yourself to this area, as I will be covering the east coast and midwest on the way back. Thanks for your help! Kurt El Paso, Texas, where it is 86 degrees, windy and dusty. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Ian MacCorquodale" (by way of Greg Lee) Subject: HMS Invincible query Hi SMML'ies, Just finishing up the Invincible, and I'm wondering if she had her Phalanx mounts installed before she set out for the Falklands, can anyone enlighten me? Ian MacCorquodale http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/9089/ Mac's Navy Links My Online Photo Album -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: Jay Schantzen Subject: Question on plans Dear Shane, Have you ever heard of a model plans dealer named JM Elst? I believe he is in Sydney. He sells soviet plan sets which he says are quite detailed (40+ pages). I enjoyed your Krivak page. Have the GMM set, but haven't done it up yet. Jay Schantzen Hastings, MN -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: "joseph w. reyna" Subject: Re: (Revell's Mystery Tanker) Giusto (and fellow SMMLers), I too was under the impression that this kit was a Heller reissue. Since Revell's T-2 CAPISTRANO was a militarized version of their commercial tanker kit, is it possible that the "Sovereign" tanker kit is a civilian version of Heller's LA SEINE oiler? My thinking is that, especially back in the 50's and 60's oilers and commercial tankers were pretty esoteric subjects, and a model company would like to have extended the range of a kit molds utility to make both military and civilian versions of a tanker's hull to maximize the market potential of the kit. But again, this is only my speculation. Cheers. Joe Reyna -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: Jon Parshall Subject: Re: IJN references >> In regards to general references for the IJN (especially pre-war), try "Kaigun". I can't recall the auhors off the top of my head, but a search by that title on Amazon.com should give you all in the info. While it is not a photo reference, the material on the technology and tactics that the IJN developed between the two World Wars is fascinating and really gives insight to why they fought the Pacific War the way they did. The reasons for heavy torpedo armaments on cruisers and destroyers, tall 'pagoda' towers on their battleships and other IJN peculiars are explained and> examined. Most of the material presented was new to me and the book is the best general IJN reference I have come across. << The authors are David Evans and Mark Peattie. U.S. Naval Institute Press, 1997. It's an excellent book, if I may say so (I did the majority of the maps and tactical illustrations, so I may be biased) and it will give you a lot of good background on how their ship and weapon designs tied to their naval doctrine. They also have a forthcoming volume on Japanese naval airpower. The standard picture reference work is Jentschura et. al. "Warships of the Imperial Japanese Navy, 1869-1945." This is also put out by Naval Institute Press. Hope that helps. jon parshall- Imperial Japanese Navy Homepage http://www.skypoint.com/members/jbp/kaigun.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: "foeth" Subject: Re: Bismarck colors Even on pictures of bismarck with the camouflage and light grey turrets, the light grey stands out (Chekc the pic of the Bismarck in GrimstadtFjord, taken from the Prinz Eugen) It might be that the paint they used to repaint the dark grey turrettops was lighter than the rest of the superstructure colors http://www.warships1.com/GERbb08_Bismarck_41_sail2.jpg http://www.warships1.com/GERbb08_Bismarck_41_sail3-LW.jpg http://www.warships1.com/GERbb08_Bismarck_41_sail4.jpg http://www.warships1.com/GERbb08_Bismarck_41_dmg.jpg Note in the last picture that the splinterscreen on the funnel and aft 15cm turret also stand out. As the Prinz Eugen vets sort of ruled out yellow, it could be a lighter grey. Evert-Jan Foeth Wettened by leaking watertunnel -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: Felix Bustelo Subject: Normandie & Heller Hello SMMLers, Let me clarify what I had said to Les Case - I thought that if any company out there would release an injection-molded kit of the Normandie (or any French liner for that matter) it would be Heller, since they are a French company. They have a very large selection of French Naval kits and are releasing the Charles de Gaulle, which is a brand new kit. Humbrol owns both Airfix and Heller, but I am not sure if product decisions are made at the parent level or at the company levels. Those who know me, know that I feel that there is a lack of plastic ocean liner models out there, so any new releases would be very welcome. Also - welcome to the SMML Peter Hall. I think that this mailing list will surely benefit from having him as a member. Felix Bustelo -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: J.L.Pickstock@lboro.ac.uk (Les Pickstock) Subject: Re: Tiny Drills I've found that guitar strings are an excellent source of fine drills. Used in a pin chuck you can drill plastic, wood or resin with them. A word of caution, if you use them in a Dremel don't have to much sticking out as they do bend and can snap or flail about -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: Robert & Rose Brown Subject: HMS Devonshire 1941 I am currently building a model of HMS Devonshire, the WWII County class cruiser, from the old Airfix Suffolk kit. Does anybody know whether or not the 8 barrel pompom platforms were arranged symetrically port and starboard as on her sister HMS Sussex, or were they staggered port and starboard as on her other sister HMS Shropshire? I have the British Cruiser book and the Man o War issue by Alan Raven, but neither of them have a clear enough photo of Devonshire. A photo or plan would be of great help. Thanks.... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: Sanartjam@aol.com Subject: Re: Furutaka and BWN Hi SMML, Thanks to Bob LaPadura for the very interesting review of the Furutaka. Sounds like a really nice model, and it'd be great to see built-up example of it sometime. You could have a REALLY big diorama of it duking it out with a 1/350 New Orleans or San Francisco (or a Helena when we see one). Speaking of Blue Water Navy, I should mention that at Christmastime last year I put a friend here in touch with BWN so he could buy a 1/350 Yorktown. When it arrived, the kit had some casting problems with the hull, which Mike Bishop took care of to the satisfaction of my friend. Mike was very responsive, and I'm sure he went to a lot of trouble and expense to rectify the situation. Now if we could just see a 1/350 Takao or Shokaku.... Art Nicholson -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: "Satin, Michael N. (SHEP)" Subject: Re: USS Enterprise CVN-65 references >> I know everyone's heard it all before, but I REALLY would like a copy of the 2 popular, out of print, and irritatingly difficult to find references for USS Enterprise CVN 65 "Air Wing Enterprise" and "Detail and Scale". << OK, I know of one place, but I don't know how many they have (the D&S book). Try: http://www.cvan-cvn-65.org/ This is the Enterprise Association (veterans). Look in "Ship's Stores, item number 900. It's still listed as of today (4/22). Good luck! Sorry, I don't know where to find any more Air Wing books (I got lucky and stumbled on to one at Aviation World in Toronto while on a business trip. It was on consignment and they only had the one). Michael Satin -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: "chenyangzhang" Subject: French terms Bourrelet is a weather strip Renforts du can superieur depends on what can is but these are the main supports for it. My understanding of Escadre d'Evolution was it was the most advanced French squadron made up of the most modern warships. I for one found this information very interesting and thanks for posting it. Chris Langtree Dave - you were wrong the ship is actually called the Queen Elizabeth the Second, its carrying the wrong name -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: MGross1352@aol.com Subject: Eaglewell kits Regarding the whereabouts of the Eaglewall (company's full name) tooling, the Bismark, Prinz Eugen, Victorious, Warspite and County Class cruiser were apparently sold to Pyro. Eagle kits were molded in a some what soft, grey, plastic while Pyro used a harder blue plastic. As was noted Pyro issued 4 kits (under every name they could).. They were a Yamato, Shokaku, North Carolina and Essex Class. These models were nowhere as good; the Essex was not bad and was sold as Essex, Hornet, Lexington, Wasp, Yorktown and I think Enterprise. The U. S. battleship was a North Carolina but was also sold under the names of the South Dakota class. The japanese ships were terrible-the carrier resembles no ship known to me. The Yamato is really strange-one side shows the ship as built with a 6 inch turret amidships but the other side shows the ship with the 6 inch turret dismounted and extra AA guns in its place! The Japanese ships were molded in a very ugly green color. I am informed that the tooling for these kits was produced in Portugal. Pyro later sold its molds to Lifelike, a model railroad company, based in Baltimore, which reissued the U. S. and Japanese ships. Lifelike later sold the molds to Lindberg-in their 1981 catalog they showed a number of the 1:1200 kits, U.S. and Japanese as well as the Prinz Eugen with the same box art as Pyro used. However, none of these kits was ever released- rumor had it that the molds were so worn that it it would have cost too much to refurbish them. My guess is that Lindberg still has the molds and that they are in a warehouse somewhere. As to the other Eaglewall molds who knows where they are or if they were destroyed. As was noted, the company began to reissue the kits under various names, probably in an effort to increase sales at a minimal cost. The last model issued was a bagged kit of Gneisenau or Scharnhorst-I can't remember which. I have at least one example of each Eagle model, unbult and in original packaging as well as the Pyro British and German ships; however they are in a couple of cartons in the garage, are difficult to locate and I have little spare time at present to try and locate them. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: "Leonard, Michael W" Subject: Re: DC Hobby Shops Steven Lau asked - >> Hello everyone. Next week I will be in the Washington DC area with a few extra days of free time and >wondered about good hobby stores. Something close to the Metro would be best. << Steve, In a word, there are none in DC. The Air & Space Museum has an OK gift shop with books and mostly model aircraft and rockets. The Navy Yard Museum has a tiny gift shop as well. In suburban Maryland there is Nostalgic Plastic in Silver Spring. In Virginia, Piper Hobby in Chantilly and Grandad's Hobby in Springfield are the area's best. Neither are remotely accessible by Metro. Nearer to the Blue Line is Air Land & Sea in Old Town Alexandria. The mainly stock old out of production kits, books, and magazines and command high prices. Mike L Alexandria, VA USA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: "Doremus, Mark" Subject: Resin Folks, In Building & Detailing Scale Model Ships by Mike Ashey, he refers to using resin to support stands or add strength or weight to a plastic ship kit. Does anyone know what type or resin he's referring to? Where can you get less than industrial strength quantities of it? TIA Mark -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: Erwin Van Deynze Subject: HMS Repulse I am currently building the HMS Repulse by Airfix, and just received some generic WEM-sets for her together with the Profile Morskie book (BTW: Thanks for the prompt delivery, Caroline !) Looking over the plans I just bumped into a couple of differences between the kit and the 1941 drawings. First of all on the kit are a couple of large ventilator-stacks just before and after the aft director, I find nothing of it on the drawings. Secondly, on the drawings, next to the forward main director there are two 20mm gun tubs. No sign of these on the kit, though... From what I can make of it, both kit and drawings depict her at the time of her loss. Can anyone shed a bit of light on this dillema ? BTW, I've just read on you leaflet, Caroline, that WEM is going to produce a resin Repulse in 1/350 and 1/700, means that there will also be a 1/600th brass fret? Tell me please, it won't be true, seems every time I build a kit, sometime afterwards somebody comes with an aftermarket kit for it... RAAAAAH !!! Greetings, Erwin -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: Jim Shirley Productions >> BTW - Jim Shirley is certainly not out of business - he is just no longer making the ship kits. << Sorry for the confusion. That's what I meant. He does a lot of conceptual and movie stuff for Disney and other companies. It's too bad he's not doing ship kits anymore. He had a very unique line of models that appealed to me such as the 1/350 (Oriskany?) Korean War era carriers as well as an Iwo Jima class carrier and he had several others in the works. I have tried a number of times to contact him by mail, phone and fax but he just doesn't return calls... At least not to me. Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. Ships and Tips http://www.okclive.com/flagship/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: Mark McKellar Subject: Re: USS Enterprise book I bought 2 copies of Detail and Scale from the enterprise assn website.... Pf course I can't find the link just this second... Mark -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: Baker Subject: Re: DC Hobby shops For Stephen Lau: D.C. used to be a great area for model builders, but as the collective blood pressure has gone up (and with it the cost of living), the number of hobby shops has dwindled to a mere handful, all of them in the outer reaches where the rent is still reasonably reasonable. With the demise of the late, great Squadron Shop north of Silver Sprint (which, because it was right by an about-to-open Metro stop, had its rent jacked skyward to the point of unprofitability), by far the best hobby shop in a 100 mile radius is Grandad's on Port Royal Road, just off the beltway off Braddock Road in Springfield, Virginia.Only a couple of years old, it already has that comfortable, "lived in" look that comes from being filled wall to wall with kits, supplies, and old hobby magazines by the ton. But, alas, it's nowhere near a metro stop and is about 12 miles from the White House as the crow flies. Next best would be Piper Hobbies in Chantilly, which would be a reasonable taxi ride from Dulles Airport but is otherwise nowhere near any sort of public transportation. Piper is of interest because it carries "used" kits as well as new. In Alexandria, pretty near the main Metro stop is "Land, Sea, and Air" on King Street, where you can purchase used kits at some of the highest prices on this planet--but not much in the way of ship models. Oddly enough, there are several good model railroad-only hobby shops in the Northern Virginia area, if that is an interest also. Best/Dave Baker -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: "Leverett L. Preble" Subject: Re: DC Hobby shops A great model shop to visit, if you are in the Wash. D.C. area, is the Ship Shop located in the center of Anapolis MD. This is only a short 45 minutes from D.C. There is even some sort of public transportation. The owner has a huge collection of 1200 and 1250 models for sale. This is an experience as these ships were not well organized. His prices have always been good. Leverett Preble -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 21) From: Ophelia Subject: Normandie on T.V. Hi Everyone, Up here in Canada, I beleive next week (I've been watching all afternoon for another commercial...), on the History Channel there is a documentary on great liners and I saw the Normandie specifically picked out. I don't know if any other country has an equivalent (A&E?) but it might be worth a look. Anyhow, I'll set my VCR now and if you are interested just tell me - or tell you more when I find out. Mark -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 22) From: Dave Judy Subject: Re: UP Projectors 1/350 To the gentleman who was looking for these! I was talking to Ted Paris of Iron Shipwright last night and mentioned you were looking for these items......He said to send a self addressed/stamped envelope and he would send you what you need...free! Send To: Commander Models 551 Wegman rd. Rochester, NY 14624 Dave Judy -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 23) From: CBNJBB62@aol.com Subject: USS(?) Olympia query Dear Guys: Last year at a ceremony for the Spanish-American war on board the USS OLYMPIA, now a museum I observed something interesting. Now all my life I thought that American warships since the Constitution took effect in this country that their names started with USS. Now the band was in period costumes and the drum had USFS OLYMPIA stenciled on it. What does USFS stand for? Is this the only difference in ship names that the navy used? Craig Bennett -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 24) From: "Mike Leonard" Subject: PMI Normandie >> I negelected to mention that we also have a real oldie. A Normandie that was put out in the 1930's by Kellogg. A fellow in Southern California has been reprinting it and another Kellogg's ship, the Queen Mary, for about 15 years now. << I think I have the one Mr. Dausse is referring to. It's printed entirely in English - no scale is noted but it states that the model is 28 inches long and 2 and 7/8 inches wide. (The actual ship was 1029 feet long with a beam of 119 feet.) Mike Alexandria VA USA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 25) From: "Mike Leonard" Subject: Old Wood Ship Models My trip to Maine turned up a shop that had several wooden ship models from the 1940s. Most were by Comet - box scale - and made entirely from balsa wood. The hulls had to be carved to shape. There was one much more interesting: a 1945 vintage LST kit by Rogers Motor Company, Scale Model Division of Detroit, Michigan. Scale is listed as 3/64+ACI-to 1 foot, and the hull is roughly a foot long. It's a true multimedia kit, and not bad for 54 years old+ACE- The hull is carved pine - only some sanding required to finish - and the kit includes brass wire, plastic gun tubs and ventilators, lead 20mm and 40mm guns, fibre (cardboard) davits, brass screws, and balsa and pine parts for the superstructure. Life rafts, struts and bow doors are molded manila paper. Altogether it wouldn't look bad even today. Mike Alexandria, VA USA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 26) From: Ives100@aol.com Subject: Re: Subs in 1:700 Ed Grune wrote: >> I believe that the Seawolf, Sturgeon, Kilo and Akula are already available in 350th, but I'd like to see them in the smaller scale. << Ed, The Seawolf ($20) & Sturgeon ($15) are available in 1:700 from SubCommittee member Ralph Ratcliffe. I have plans for these submarines, and these are dead-on accurate reproductions in resin, right down to the delicate scribed details. Virtually no assembly required in Sturgeon or Seawolf (add the prop or pumpjet respectively. Ralph also makes a 688 ($20), and supplies two different sails (older version with diving planes, newer version without) two different propellers (older crescent and new "wagonwheel" crescent with anti-vortex ring) and the countermeasures anhedral dispensers fins for the later model 688s. He also produces a 1:700 Polaris/Poseidon SSBN, all with superb and accurate scribing. Contact me if you want Ralph's ordering address. Tom Dougherty -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 27) From: jmaine@golden.net Subject: Eagle kits Hi Dan, Thanks for sharing your experiences with the old Eagle waterline series. It seems that, except as Pyro re-issues in the mid 60's, the Eagle kits never made it to the States. Other SMMLer's I have spoken with off-list who remember these models got theirs in either the UK or in Europe. Incidentally, the Pyro kits were widely available in Canada too for a short while. I also wonder what happened to the tooling. An interesting sidelight to this is a brief "industry update" item in the British magazine Model Boats of November 1979 which states the following: "Lindberg, having obviously secured some moulds from Lifelike, have also announced some 'new' 1/1200 scale waterline ships for later this year. They include HMS Norfolk and Prinz Eugen, both of course being the old Eagle kit moulds, let's hope others follow in time." As far as I know, Lindberg never issued such kits, but I wonder if they actually had - and still have - the tooling? Anyways, they were great little models. . . John Maine PS: Shane, did the Eagle products ever make it out to the other "dominions" of the Commonwealth like Australia? Hi John, I don't know if they made it out to Australia or not. But there are plenty of what I'd assume to be diecast ships, in what looks to be 1/1250 at a Sydney hobby shop. So it may be a safe bet to say that they did make it out here? Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 28) From: Rick Heinbaugh Subject: More on mystery tankers To further confuse the issue: In addition to the 1/400 Revell BP Something cargo tanker that Loren Perry mentioned (multi-colored plastic, solid Revell-style deckedge railings, etc), Heller also produced a 1/400 scale French Navy medium sized replenishment tanker from the 1960's named FN La Seine. This was typical 1970 Heller style, same as the Surcouf class DDs and Richelieu/Jean Bart BBs. The railings were separate pieces of latice shaped plastic - head & shoulders above the 1971 competition, but useless for today. I really liked the molding of the details and am still saving the kit for that great project "someday". A few years ago, somebody made a diorama of Jean Bart alongside La Seine, refueling, and it was featured in a magazine - Scale Modeler, Scale Ship Modeler, Ships in Scale, or something like that. It looked really good to me. It was also to be released as La Seine's sister ship, La Saone (a different river). I don't know if that kit ever was produced or not. Rick Seattle, WA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Shaya Novak" Subject: Battleship Texas/ New York Great deals at "The Naval Base" http://www.modelshipbuilding.com USS Texas 1944 1/350 scale 150.00 Viking 1944 1/700 scale 75.00 Viking USS New York 1944 1/350 scale 150.00 Viking Shipping 6.00 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: Shane Subject: SMML Website Hi gang, First off, I forgot the other night to thank Jeff Hearne for all the work he put into setting up the website & getting it off the ground. Thanks mate, it's really appreciated. To the guys who offered to help set up the FAQ, I'll try & get in touch over the weekend or early next week. It's also not too late to throw your hat in the ring either. In the meantime if anyone has any ideas about what's to go in the FAQ, send them in. When the website was first set up, it was agreed to put down SMMLies names, email addresses (not sure of that) & where they're from on the website. Now I have the list of names & can put it up anytime. But, since it's been a while & you may have moved or changed your mind about it. So if people want "their names in lights" on the site, please resend your permission to do so. Please also notice the change in the footer as well & take note of where I'd prefer you to send any pictures for the site. Regards. Shane - where it's bloody cold now & don't laugh Chris. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: Shane Subject: OT: ANZAC cookies!! A couple of weeks ago, a SMMLie asked me for the recipe for ANZAC cookies on rms. And since I can't find his email, & ANZAC Day is this Sunday, Lorna thought it best to post the recipe here for everyone, so here goes: ANZAC Biscuit Recipe 1 cup rolled oats 1 cup plain flour 1/2 cup sugar 3/4 cup desiccated coconut 2 tablespoons of Golden Syrup 1/2 cup of butter or margarine 1/2 teaspoon of bicarb soda 1 tablespoon of boiling water pinch of salt Mix oats, flour, salt, sugar & coconut together. Melt syrup & butter together. Mix soda with boiling water & add to melted butter & syrup. Add this to dry ingrediants, stir well. Place spoonfulls of mixture onto a greased baking tray(cookie sheet). Bake in slow oven 150-160C for 20 minutes. Remove from oven, allow to cool for 5 minutes on tray, before removing. Lorna says: "These biscuits spread on the tray when cooking. Depending on whether you like large biscuits or medium sized ones adjust your spoonfuls of mixture accordingly. I use a heaped teaspoon and I generally get a palm sized biscuit." Regards, Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume