Subject: SMML01/05/99VOL532 Date: Sun, 02 May 1999 05:58:35 +1000 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: USS IOWA explosion and CO 2: Re: USS Halsey 3: Re: Hobby shops in LA 4: Re: USS LANGLEY 5: Stena High Speed Ship 6: King's Bay in the "real" Georgia 7: Re: Resin Nimitz 8: Re: USS Halsey 9: Re: RN China Station colors. 10: Re: Smith class DD's 11: Re: SMML Across America 12: Re: Trying something new... 13: NAB Little Creek 14: Re: Smith class DD 15: IOWA EXPLOSION BOOKS 16: size of list, names etc. 17: Re: Big Thanks 18: CIWS, Airfix, IOWA 19: ATF Tugs 20: Fw: turn around 21: Re: Models I would like to see 22: Teak Deck Paints 23: Warships site -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Katz, Gene S" Subject: Re: USS IOWA explosion and CO A tad off topic, but former Captain Fred Moosally, USN (Ret), CO of the IOWA at the time of the explosion works just down the hall from me. We cross paths often during the course of duty. When he came aboard here he pretty much acted the way described in the book, "predators eating their young", abrasive, etc. with his new staff. However, he has said more than once to his staff that he will answer any questions regarding the tragedy. I am thinking of having him autograph a copy of the IOWA Class BBs for me. I am not defending him, the Board, or the Navy, which I dearly love in spite of itself at times. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: drwells@hogpa.ho.att.com (David R Wells) Subject: Re: USS Halsey >> I have a friend who served on the USS Halsey from 1985-1989 who would like to build a model of it. Questions: 1. Is the Halsey a Leahey Class CGN ? << Leahy class CG. She wasn't a nuke. >> 2. Is there a kit, if so what scale, year represented (beginner modeller) << There is the old Monogram kit. Monogram kits were "box scale", (in Monogram's case, whatever scale makes the hull 16 inches long) but in the case of the Leahy kit, it worked out to exactly 1/400. Monogram's kit was marketed as both Leahy and Halsey. They're identical except for box art and decals. The kit has been out of production for years, so you'll probably have to scrounge around to find one. The kit represents the Leahy early in her career. Apparently, the missile directors were scarce at first, and they only got two of them instead of their full compliment of four. Monogram's kit reflects this, so you'll have to make up two extra SPG-55s. You'll also need to find out what other changes were made up to 1985, and include them. I'm pretty sure that the 3 inch guns were removed, and replaced with Harpoons. I'll bet they had Phalanx guns by 1985, but I don't know where. The kit is pretty easy for beginners to build. The detail is a little short, but you can work on that..... The basic shapes are right, and it even looks good below the waterline. David R. Wells -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: John Snyder Subject: Re: Hobby shops in LA Brookhurst, Brookside--at least some of you got it right. That's the trouble with being on the road without ready references and with only an increasingly faulty memory. Apologies to the folks at Brookhurst. John Snyder Snyder & Short Enterprises The Paint Guys -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: SantMin@aol.com Subject: Re: USS LANGLEY Rusty, That scratchbuilt 1/700 LANGLEY in FSM is mine. The PE shown was drawn by me and sent to PhotoCut to be etched. That''s only half, I needed two identical sheets (I drew portside parts and needed an almost dupe set for starboard side). I know that when you make a kit you get a price break on PE by ordering a large quantity but I still think a 1/350 LANGLEY would be very expensive. That being said, I think I'd buy one!!!!! Cheers, Bob Santos -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: "foeth" Subject: Stena High Speed Ship I concur that the Stena ship is ugly as hell, but is has some beauty in that. I had a special tour aboard their new variant for the Stena line, a smaller ship, without the onboard McDonalds (Phew!) To save weight, they removed all interesting features that a normal ship has, like ceilings. You can clearly see the structure of the ship as they only wrapped it in some black cloth like substance (Passenger area's). Not really a pretty sight. Also, in most parts below the restaurant decks, the walls are bare alluminium, not nice. As ferry's go, it looked just as boring as the next one. Well, I hate spending more than 30 minutes on planes and ferry's. Seeing the wave develop behind it is nice, but that wave is gone when it is up to speed. Then it is just a matter of waiting in line for your 'fresh' salad or sandwich. Unfortunately, Stena refused to take it out for a spin during that your, as a blade from the turbines apparently broke of and damaged the engine. This was very amusing, as their slogan had something to do with reliability. They choose a different gas turbine, twice as heavy, thinking it would be more reliable, but it was not. The bridge itselfs looks puny on top of the ships, even the smaller one, but is very spacy, and high tech. The Kamewa waterjets allow the ship to take virtually any course. You make make it turn circles while keeping the ship pointing north, or go almost sideways. The jets can be powered by some joystick like controls, and you can even have remote control! Just take a special panel, and you can steer the ship from any point in the ship. You want to turn the ship on the bow? No problem. Do you want to rotate the ship around a point 100 meters of the bow? Easy! We (Bunch of naval architecture students) got a special lecture by some of the designers, telling us about the new hull type. The hull starts as a SWATH (Small Waterplane Area Twin Hull) but ends up as a catamaran. The centre of buoyancy is below half draft, which is very unusual, and they subsequently patented the hull (That's why the refuse the show the bottom of the ship, although some models at the main office had a full hull). The bow has a very slender shape, and the angle the bow makes with the waterline is incredibly small. Our tour through the ship took us to the bow regions below the car deck, and it is *very* narrow. We also went to Kamewa Propulsion (And still have a Kamewa beerbottle opener to prove it) where a lot of the waterjets are manufactored. The large Stena ferry's have waterjets with a 1.5 square meter opening, displacing 15000 liters per second (530.000 cubic feet) (Fill the olympic swimming pool in 4 seconds, or 1 second if you use all four of its thrusters) The fuel bill of the Stena HSS is subsequently around a million British Pounds per month. When the ship is docked, a special boom docks with the ship and pumps fuel etc in and grey water out. For other supplies, they can puit a container on the roof of the larger ship, which has a small container crane stowed behind the bridge area which can move to the back of the ship. As for the small turning diameter, one of our teachers once told me that when a ship with waterjets turns, it pivots the waterjet exit nozzles sideways. This reduces thrust to such an extent, that it is no small wonder they turn on dimes: they can hardly do otherwise. Add a little bowthruster, and you can do any manuever you like (Well, on a horizontal plane) I suppose I'll take the large HSS when I go the the UK. Better than the chunnel, not matter how boring the ship is! Evert-Jan Foeth No idea what weather it is outside our light-tight lab. Probably sunny... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: Ed Grune Subject: King's Bay in the "real" Georgia >> Sorry about the name, I used to live in the "other" Georgia, Atlanta. << Thats OK. My in-laws live in Waycross (~50 miles from Kings Bay). They say that it got its name 'cause its way cross Georgia to Altanta. >> I understand that the guards at naval submarine bases usually have their sense of humor surgically removed before they get the job. << I can believe that. The meanest guard I ever saw was a kid guarding the gate at SubBase Bangor (WA). >> I was under the impression though, from my fishing buddies, that there was some sort of 'turning' basin that had public access and subs might be seen entering and exiting through this area. << Yes, the whole area is open to navigation. The Kingsland/St Mary's area is located behind Cumberland Island on the coast. Fisherman & shrimpers move in & out without much bother. The Navy just doesn't want people approaching the waterfront area uninvited. The boats leave port via the St Mary's River. I've heard that they are quite impressive as they sail past Fort Clinch. A Ft. Clinch story -- Ft Clinch is a 19th century fort located at the mouth of the St. Mary's River between Cumberland Island, Georgia and Amelia Island, Florida. It was built by Col Robert E Lee, before he got famous. The historical interpretation volunteers at the fort play the role that they don't know that the War of Northern Agression (i.e. the Civil War) is over. When you take the tour you are given a pass through the Confederate lines. As far as I know they've never taken a shot at that big black cigar shaped thing flying the Stars & Stripes. Ed Mansfield, TX -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: Resin Nimitz >> 1/350 Nimitz would be too big and pricey, let's take over Tamiya and make them do it in plastic! << I agree a resin model in that scale would be just too expensive. However, rumor has it that MB Models is working on a USS Ronald Reagan! Mike said he was commissioned by the navy to do it but things may have changed. Let's hope. I would estimate using current resin/PE prices as a guide, I would expect about a $1200.00 price range for a ship that size. I definitely think a conversion kit for the Tamiya Enterprise is worth doing economically. I would happily pay $60.00 or $70.00 for it. Detail sets already exist for the kit so only a small fret would be needed to accommodate the new parts thus keeping the price down. Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. Ships and Tips http://www.okclive.com/flagship/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: Darren Scannell Subject: Re: USS Halsey >> 1. Is the Halsey a Leahey Class CGN? << The USS Halsey is a Leahy class CG. Not a nuke. >> 2. Is there a kit, if so what scale, year represented (beginner modeller) << One half of Revellogram had a kit out in the 70's/80's, hard to find now. Probably 1/568.43 scale or something like it. >> 3. The paint scheme as I think is applicable: Hull - Have Gray 5-H Decks - dark gray Black waterline Blood-Red bottom Black on masts above the smoke-stacks << Close enough, But it would be standard Haze gray. >> 4. Any comments/suggestions welcome of course. << Watch ebay and the other usual places for hard to find kits. Darren Scannell (I have some photos taken in the mid 80's of the Halsey if you want to contact me off list) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: "J. London" Subject: Re: RN China Station colors. According to my 1938 copy of Jane's cruisers and escort vessels on China Station had white hulls and light gray (not buff) upperworks. East Indies and Red Sea Stations had white hulls and, in some cases, yellow funnels. RN surveying vessels were all white with yellow funnels. Is anyone out there interested in scratchbuilding 1:1200 warships and merchantmen? If so would like to hear from you. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: "Duane W. Christensen" Subject: Re: Smith class DD's The only source of plans I have found for obscure ships of this vintage, is the National Archives.They list ships by name rather than hull #, so tell them you are seeking a booklet of general plans for any of: Smith DD-17 Lamson DD-18 Preston DD-19 Flusser DD-20 Reid DD-21 They will usually get back to you within three weeks with a list of available plans. The address is: National Archives at College Park 8601 Adelphi Rd. College Park, MD. 20740-6001 Best of luck! Duane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: SeaPhoto@aol.com Subject: Re: SMML Across America Hi Gang! Well, I found a room in Charleston, South Carolina, want to knock out a little report from the field for you. I didn't see much at Jacksonville, though there is a nice public park across from the base there, where you can watch the warships come and go. In fact, you can drive right on to the beach, which is a novelty for me; my home state of California frowns on that. Weather has been poor though, which cuts out on photo opportunities. If you find yourself in the Jacksonville area, there is a great used bookstore on Roosevelt Avenue (on the west side of the river near the I-95) I forget the name (I have a card in my van, but it is really storming outside!), but look in the phonebook - they claim to be the largest in the city, and they must be right - about 15 feet of naval and nautical bookshelf, and another 25 or so of general military books. Prices are reasonable for most items On the way up from Jacksonville, I found a submarine museum in St. Mary's. It is a nice 3 level affair, that covers the history from the earliest to the most recent. A very large assortment of submarine plaques, along with a library and some other displays make it worth a stop if you are in the Area - about 15 miles off of I-95 at exit # 2. From there, I went to Savannah's Ships and the Sea Museum. Of interest to readers of this list is a 1:48 scale model of the Brooklyn class CL Savannah, along with several other warships. An unusual subject is an old builder's model in 1:48 of the cruiser Aboukir (sp?) one of three cruisers lost to a single U-boat early in World War I. I am not sure why it ended up in this museum, but a very interesting model neverless. Most of the museum is in fact made up of ship models, fully rigged wooden vessels, which are nicely done. A half model of the nuclear cargo liner Savannah is on display (a mirror behind giving the illusion of a complete ship). Another stiking display is a very effective diorama in 9/64 = 1 foot scale of the Titanic sinking - the model, which is in a darkened room, is internally illuminated, and depicts the ship just before her bow became awash. A large number of figures on the ship and in lifeboats bring the scene to life. Next up - Patriot's Point. Kurt In Chareston, where it's cold and windy, with a light rain. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: JohnVCP@aol.com Subject: Re: Trying something new... Thanks for the response - will send pixs of ship models to the address you provided. John -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: "mkrumrey" Subject: NAB Little Creek Thanks for the update on Little Creek. I guess in my minds eye, these places are unchanged from when we last visited them. I guess it woule be analagous to, all my friends sure look older, thank goodness I still look the same! No need to make an unecessary trip. Would still recommend the MacArthur memorial, (if it is still open). Too bad about those models. I used to drool over them every day as I came on the quarter deck for another day of school. Maybe they ended up at Pensacola. To the person wondering about the Olympia, contact Bob Steinbrunn. He took some fantastic "Modelers eye" photos in February. A photographic tour of the ship. I have a set, and am quite pleased. Mark Krumrey New Richmond WI -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: Jay Schantzen Subject: Re: Smith class DD Regarding the Smith class destroyers, I would reccommend checking with the National Archives in College Park, MD. They would probably have original plans of a member (or members) of the class. They also might have microfilm copies of plans available. The problem is getting the info if you can't get to the DC area and get it yourself. I've heard that you can hire researchers to do it for you, but I don't know the cost. Other listees may help. The archives are a gold mine, but you have to get to the mine. Hope this helps, Jay Schantzen Formerly of Maryland, now of Minnesota. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: Baker Subject: IOWA EXPLOSION BOOKS With regard to today's comments on the relative merits of the two books just out about the IOWA explosion, I think Dr. Schwoebel's book is being done a disservice. He is anything but covering up for the USN in the book and lets the facts speak for themselves. As an undoubted technical expert, he's naturally focussing on the part he and his team did to analyze the possible causes for the explosion, and he makes it abundantly clear that the USN's knee-jerk blaming of Gunner's Mate Hartwig was a typical Naval Investigative Service gay-bashing exercise. The books are very different, but both have their merits, and the USNI one shouldn't be condemned just because it is a more serious effort. Also, for the record, there is not a single EX-naval officer on the USNI's editorial board, which is composed entirely of active duty personnel, as it always has been. Anyone at all familiar with the USNI Press and the PROCEEDINGS will know that they go out of their way NOT to toe any particular party line. The whole reason for the existance of the USNI is to promote healthy discussion of naval matters, no matter how controversial. Just read the PROCEEDINGS from month to to month the see the level of serious disagreement with current policy matters that gets aired within its pages. Yes, the undersigned is published by the the USNI Press and has columns in both the USNI's magazines, but, frankly, in my over 40 years of membership, while I've seen some misguided senior officers TRY to influence the USNI to play along, I've yet to see anyone succeed. Anyway, if you are REALLY interested in the IOWA explosion, read both books, and then get a copy of the complete, published USN report. The USN started off very badly, but, in the end, under CNO ADM Frank Kelso, it largely redeemed itself. A.D. Baker, III (who wishes he had more time to build models instead of spending 12 hours a day working on a reference book that too few people ever see) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: PulligS@aol.com Subject: size of list, names etc. Is it just the US AOL users that have a problem and have to download and read the list off line? Makes it a pain to respond. Remind us again where to go to put our name on the "public" list. When you digest the old vol.#s be sure to do the flight deck #s and colors of ships. What is the URL for the model review list that has all the models on it? Sorry for the rambling. Sam Pullig Beaumont Texas Great full moon this PM close to 90 this week and dry. Hi Sam, The url for the SMML site is: http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/4712/ /. At the moment there's only issue 1 thru to about 55. There'll be more going up this week. Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: Growlrr@aol.com Subject: Re: Big Thanks Big thank to fellow SMMLie Mike Leonard who managed to find a copy of Aldens Flush Decks and Four Pipes....It arrived this morning....I think I maybe need to write a volume (or two? are you listening Alan?) on them for Warship Perpspectives...Hmmm...237 some odd ships - ok, but don't expect it tomorrow.... Glenn -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: "Alicja & David Lombard" Subject: CIWS, Airfix, IOWA I just picked up the Viking Models 1:35 CIWS. One of the webs on the base is broken, but it otherwise looks like a nice kit. While I've found several pictures of it on the Web, I can't seem to find any drawings. Any hints on a good set of 3- views? Also, as I recall, there are a couple of readers with a fondness for Airfix 1:600 kits, While I was in Brookhurst Hobbies today buying the above referenced CIWS kit, I noticed they had 2 Graf Spee, 5 Ajax, 1 Tiger kits. They can be reached at http://www.brookhursthobbies.com BTW - I don't think the IOWA is at the shop anymore. I remember it years ago, I think they also had an out-of-box build next to it for comparison. David Lombard Rossmoor, Orange County, CA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: "Dave Watts" Subject: ATF Tugs I would agree with Frances Jones on his pick for new models. I think these ships in 1/350 scale would make an excellent model. I worked on a converted one 32 years ago, and fell in love with them then. Dave Watts -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: "Chris Hughes" Subject: Fw: turn around Date: Sat, 1 May 1999 12:55:43 +0100 A small white guy goes into an elevator, when he gets in he notices a huge black dude standing next to him. The big black dude looks down upon the small white guy and says: "7 foot tall, 350 pounds, 20 inch dick, 3 pound left ball, 3 pound right ball, Turner Brown" The small white guy faints. The big black dude picks up the small white guy and brings him to, slapping his face and shaking him and asks the small white guy. "What's wrong?". The small white guy says; "Excuse me but what did you say?". The big black dude looks down and says "7 foot tall, 350 pounds, 20 inch dick, 3 pound left ball, 3 pound right ball, my name is Turner Brown." The small white guy, "Thank god, I thought you said 'Turn around.'" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 21) From: Suvoroff@aol.com Subject: Re: Models I would like to see Well, if we are being polled on the ships to build, I say, anything 1880 to 1900. To be more specific; HMS Trafalgar, 1892 Jaureguiberry, 1897 These two are my favorite ships, and what I go with having to choose but two. Scale? 1/600th by preference, 1/700th is more likely though, but 1/350 would be fine too. Yours, James D. Gray -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 22) From: Ophelia Subject: Teak Deck Paints Hello, I was wondering what colours, paints, stains, etc. you guys and gals use to achieve a realistic looking teak deck on a typical plastic model. Also, I usually use a very thinned down base colour of wood as well as for the lighter and darker shades to help get an extra level of realism, would this be appropriate for teak? Thanks in advance; Mark A. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 23) From: "graham peter walker" Subject: Warships site What has happened or is happening to this site it seems to have a dire lack of new articles or news -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume