Subject: SMML03/05/99VOL534 Date: Tue, 04 May 1999 00:30:43 +1000 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: 1942 USN Insignia 2: Re: Ships to model 3: 1980s Yamato 4: Re: SMML off line 5: Re: 1942 USN Insignia 6: Re: Little Creek and Norfolk / SMML Across America 7: Re: MIDWAYS and the Med 8: Re: LANGLEY 9: Re: insignia change 10: Re: Iowa explosion book reviews 11: hello 12: Sumner 1/350 13: Re: Resin distortion 14: Web site for American Civil War ships 15: Mirage Polish Ship Kit 16: Re: Iowa Explosion 17: Resin shaping 18: Re: 1942 USN Aircraft markings 19: Re: 1942 USN aircraft insignia 20: Re WEM 1/350 Hood 21: V & W Class Destroyers 22: USS Cabot CVL 28 Info. 23: Re: USS Iowa explosion 24: Re: 1942 USN aircraft insignia 25: Re: Iron Shipright Hood problems -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: Re: IJN colors 2: A Luvverly Bunch of Flowers 3: SMML website update & FAQ request -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: John Snyder Subject: Re: 1942 USN Insignia USN aircraft still carried tail stripes and red discs within the white stars at the time of Coral Sea--as did Doolittle's B-25s a couple of weeks earlier. On the road with no ready references, I can't tell you just when those markings were finally dropped. John Snyder Snyder & Short Enterprises The Paint Guys -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Bill & Kaja Michaels" Subject: Re: Ships to model >> I'd like to see in resin in 1/350 the ATF class of tugs, the Navajo Class.... << The Navajo class also served as US Coast Guard Cutters. Ute, Lipan, Escape, Tamaroa, Cherokee, and others were in service until the early 1980s. An easy conversion-- add the 3"/50 deck gun, USCG-style Motor Surf boats, and you're well on your way! Bill and Kaja Michaels -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "Jens H. Brandal" Subject: 1980s Yamato Robert, If the Yamato had made it back and survived the war, I can think of two options: a) She'd been moored at the Bikini Atoll like Prinz Eugen, and suffered the same fate b) She would have been modernized like the post war Iowas. That means she would have retained her main battery and probably the secondary too. The light AA and medium calibre guns would have been replaced with modern ones, and my guess is there would be Anti Ship Missiles (e.g. Harpoon) filling parts of the deck and/or superstructure. The fantail deck would probably be flush with the main deck, and access to the hangar would be through a deck lift like the early carriers. There would of course be plenty of room for heli-pad markings. The main directors would have to go - much more sophisticated means of fire cointrol exist - replace them with radars, or even some spherical radomes. I'd say that would make for a cleaner looking Yamato, and you will see a lot of people scratching their heads... Jens -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: Bradford Chaucer Subject: Re: SMML off line >> This is how I do it. Maybe there's a better way but I don't know what it is. I download SMML to the desktop. I then minimize AOL and double click on the SMML icon. It come up using Clipboard. To reply, copy the sentences << I'd make an alternative suggestion to downloading and reading mail.If you can with AOL, dump their reader and switch to Eudora lite instead. First of all it's free! Secondly it allows you to download all your mail from the server and read and compose replies off line, then jump back on line to upload. It also allows you to save messages that you want to keep and to organize them into folders. It's available for both PCs and Macs. Regards, Bradford Chaucer -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: ECammeron@aol.com Subject: Re: 1942 USN Insignia The red dot and red and white tail stripes were ordered removed by an ALNAV (All Navy Dispatch) of May 6, 1942. The change took place between the Battle of the Coral Sea and the Battle of Midway. See Vol 2 of 'The Offical Monogram US Navy & Marine Corps Aircraft Color Guide' by John M. Elliott. Eugene Cammeron -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: MDDoremus@aol.com Subject: Re: Little Creek and Norfolk / SMML Across America Kurt, Take your time and admire the rain, even if you've seen TOO much. I don't know if Norfolk and Little Creek share those same humorless guards as King's Bay. But, I know the ship tours have been canceled until further notice. In addition, both the Enterprise and Teddy Roosevelt Battle groups and the Nassau and Kearsarge ARG's are at sea. Big E is due in port in the next week or two and the Nassau ARG is about a week behind that. Photo pickings may be a bit slim till then. Keep swimmin' Mark -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: ECammeron@aol.com Subject: Re: MIDWAYS and the Med >> Someone correct me if I am wrong but the reason that the MIDWAYS were always in the Atlantic/ Med. was that they were the only nuclear capable naval ships. I believe they carried Savages that were capable of hauling one of the early nukes. << The MIDWAYs remained assigned to the Atlantic Fleet til late 1954 early 55 when MIDWAY transfered to the Pacific, in preparation for modernization. The real reason they were Atlantic was that the Navy had downgraded the Pacific Fleet to a 'backwater command' and planned to reduce the Pacific Fleet to one CV. The Russian threat to Europe and the impending NATO Treaty vs no major potential threat in the Pacific after WW II were the real reasons. See 'Origins of the Maritime Strategy' and 'Seapower in the Nuclear Age' for more details. Also, 'The Hook' magazine fro the Tailhook Association had a multipart article on the development and early operation of the AJ Aircraft. One of the major reasons for the 27a Mod Program for the ESSEX Class was to permit operation of the AJ. Eugene Cammeron -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: SantMin@aol.com Subject: Re: LANGLEY >> I too admired your Lankly. Your note above gave me an idea; how about a half kit?? It seems that much of the cost in any large resin model is in the hull. Suppose that you were to blow up your 1/700 artwork to create a 1/350 set. Additionally perhaps someone could do a set of the hardware and smaller parts, i.e. the island, stacks guns other fittings, leaving the modeler to do a hull from drawings in wood. That would seem to be far cheaper than doing a full kit in 1/350 scale resin. << Bradford, I don't think it would work. I did those drawings years ago (long before we got so sophisticated) and I do not think they would stand up to being enlarged to 1/350. (actually, they were drawn to 1/350 and reduced for etching). A new set should be drawn two or three times larger than 1/350 and reduced. It would really have to be coordinated with the hull builder so that all those pieces of "ironwork" would fit properly. I also had the parts for the aircraft and crew figures on those sheets. Again, this could be redone. What I am saying though is that the model would require two very large sheets of PE. Cheers, Bob -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: SantMin@aol.com Subject: Re: insignia change >> I'm trying to remember exactly when the US Navy dropped the red circles from the center of the white stars on their aircraft insignias. If I remember right, they also dropped the red and white stripes on the rudder surfaces at the same time << The change was May 6, 1942 but I bet they didn't wake up that morning and find all the aircraft repainted! cheers, Bob Santos -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: SJantscher@aol.com Subject: Re: Iowa explosion book reviews Mr Baker, I stand corrected on the composition of the board of directors of the USNI. I am one of those many SMML'ers who do enjoy, and better yet read your naval related work published by the USNI Press. However, I didn't mean to imply that Dr. Schwoebel took direction in his book effort, to tow the Navy line. As I said, he was more interested in the technical details of truely investigating the accident, than the original Navy investigations. What his work revealed finally became the Navy Line, not the other way around. As far as any slight I may have made against the USNI and USNI Press, I still don't believe they would have published the Thompson book, had they been given the opportunity. Of course that is just my conjecture. The lively discussions of differing naval policy etc. are just the fodder for a professional publication of the quality and caliber of Proceedings. I believe that the "warts and all" presentation in Glimpse of Hell would have been seen as too inflamitory for them to publish. Lets face it, the Navy brass botched most everything surrounding the accident and the following investigation. That they might have finally gotten it "right" under Admiral Kelso, belies the fact that institutional pressure was overwhelmingly wrong when it was needed most. Steve Jantscher -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: yo Subject: hello Hi, I'm not a very good modeler, but I want to build or have one built for me..I'm looking for the BB-40 New Mexico. Please email me with a seller or somewhere I can have one sent to me already built. Thanks -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: "Shaya Novak" Subject: Sumner 1/350 Can't seem to find any 1/350 WWII Sumners. Whose still making and have them in stock??? shaya@erols.com at the Naval Base -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: Ives100@aol.com Subject: Re: Resin distortion A while ago, I received a 1:350 resin S-boat (pre-WWII submarine) from Blue Water Navy that had a hull shaped not unlike a banana! The model was otherwise very nice, and the hot water trick worked for me in straightening the hull. You heat water up to about 60-80 C, and then soak the hull or part. Don't allow the parts to touch the side of the metal container the water is in. In the case of thicker parts, you need to allow time for the heat to penetrate through. Once the part is warm (very warm), carfeully bend it back to shape. If it doesn't go all the way to the desired position - DO NOT FORCE! Resin is brittle and will snap. Reheat the part in water and continue until the part is straight. Patience is required. Do not use water near boiling (100C), as this can damage the part. It took me about 20-30 minutes to get a satisfactory shape. Interestingly, some types if polyurethane resins have "memory", and just placing the parts in hot water makes them return to their proper shapes. Tom Dougherty -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: BSteinIPMS@aol.com Subject: Web site for American Civil War ships Those of you interested in ships of the American Civil War may want to poke into Grandiosity Books' Web site dealing with military books and models, WarWeb at: http://www.warweb.com. One of the pages deals with the metal 1/600 scale line of Thoroughbred Ships from the Civil War. Quite a line-up. Bob Steinbrunn Minneapolis (where summer is finally here and the weather has been good to the hops and the barley.......) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: "charles t." Subject: Mirage Polish Ship Kit Forgive me if this has already been covered..... I just purchased a 1/400 ship kit by Mirage of a Polish late 1930's ship (appears to me to be a destroyer). The kit says 'Orp Blyskawica'. Can anyone provide any information about this ship, or where I might look for some detail info. Thanks, Charles T. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: "mkrumrey" Subject: Re: Iowa Explosion I recently finsihed "Explosion Aboard the Iowa", by Dr. Shwoebel. I never bought the idea of a set explosion, but that it was an accident. The book goes into great detail about the experiments and the investigation. The book is not a slam on the Navy's investigation, but goes further than the Navy did, and questions why the Navy's investigation and conclusion was flawed. The book answeres a lot of questions, and convinced me that the explosion was an accident. What I didn't know was that explosions like this had happened aboard BB's in the 20's, and during WWII. So, it wasn't something that had never happened before. Strongly recommend the book for anyone who has an interest in the causes and the investigation. Also worth reading is "Strike Able Peter". About the grounding of the Missouri in January 1950. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: "mkrumrey" Subject: Resin shaping I reshaped some warped gun tub splinter shields on My Accurate Image Models 1/350 San Francisco, by dipping the part in boiled water. (Not boiling) within a matter of seconds I pulled it out and was able to gently reshape them to the correct shape. The resin seemed real flexible, but I had to work fast. It worked for me. Mark Krumrey New RIchmond WI -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: "Craig Brown" Subject: Re: 1942 USN Aircraft markings I quote from F4F Wildcat in Action by Squadron Signal, "In May of 1942 BUAIR issued orders to delete the Red markings from all Navy aircraft. It would have taken a little time to get all aircraft repainted, hope this helps. Craig Brown -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: Marc Flake Subject: Re: 1942 USN aircraft insignia Joe & Adrienne: According to the Monogram Guide, use of the red center in the star and red and white tail stipes both ended May 6, 1942. Marc in Mansfield (TX) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: "graham peter walker" Subject: Re WEM 1/350 Hood Evert, I have seen the WEM Hood held it really looked at it is beautifully cast, the copy I looked at had hardly any air bubbles and the detail was awesome, if only I had that kind of money I would buy one (sigh). Try looking at it on WEMs site. Ask Peter who made the Masters he's a SMMLie now, also there may be someone on the list who has/is making it. Best wishes Graham, -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 21) From: "David Haynes" Subject: V & W Class Destroyers Anybody know where I can get a V & W Class Destroyer at any scale. I already have the 1:96 offering from Deans Marine. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 22) From: TATagg@aol.com Subject: USS Cabot CVL 28 Info. Here's some current info the the status of the USS Cabot CVL-28, she continues to survive despite efforts to scrap here, also listed is the ships current web site. http://www.divemiami.com/museum/index.htm "On April 26TH, 1999, the United States District Court, Brownville Division signed a court order instructing the US Marshell's Service to arreset the USS Cabot CVL-28. In addition the court appointed ECOSAT as the substitute custodian for the USS CABOT and ordered the US Marshell's Sservice to surrender possession of the vessel to ECOSAT for custodial care." -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 23) From: drwells@hogpa.ho.att.com (David R Wells) Subject: Re: USS Iowa explosion A.D. Baker III wrote: >> Anyway, if you are REALLY interested in the IOWA explosion, read both books, and then get a copy of the complete, published USN report. The USN started off very badly, but, in the end, under CNO ADM Frank Kelso, it largely redeemed itself. << I agree with Mr. Baker on this one. I read this report. It's been a few years since I did, but I seem to recall that in the end, it assigned blame to the captain, the exec, and the gunnery officer, for not training their crews well enough. After reading Dulin & Garzke's accounts in the 3rd edition of "Battleships", I tend to agree with this conclusion. Evidently, the captain was more interested in the engines and the missiles, and didn't schedule nearly enough gunnery drills. If I recall correctly, Hartwig was only mentioned in one sentence, almost in passing. The actually physical cause of the explosion may never be known. Once again, from reading accounts in Dulin & Garzke, the gun crew knew something was seriously wrong. My speculation is that somebody overrammed the gun, and the gun crew figured that part out. My guess is that the overramming alone did not cause the explosion. Given that the crew knew that there was a problem (overramming?) and had time to report it before the explosion, there must have been more than one thing wrong. What happened next is uncertain, and we'll almost certainly never really know, especially given the fact that it became a political issue. Now, let's get back to models...... David R. Wells -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 24) From: LUCASNER@aol.com Subject: Re: 1942 USN aircraft insignia Warbirds Illustrated No. 36, "Air War over the Pacific" states that the order went out in May '42 to remove the red center from the star. It shows a picture of Enterprise, supposedly dated 15 May showing a number of F4F-3's and SBD's with the red center already painted out. Squadron Signal #64 SBD Dauntless in action has a photo of the Big-E "just prior" to Coral Sea. It's a head on photo of SBD's spotted on deck, the roundels are not visible, but you can make out the red and white stripes on several of the rudders. Another photo of an SBD dated 3 May 42 show the red centers in place. Immediately following Coral Sea, it says that the red centers and rudder stripes were painted out "on some" of the SBD-3's The order, according to this book was dated 20 May 42, but that the painting out of the markings preceded that due to the urging of the pilots. Several photos of "Midway-era" SBD's have all had the red markings removed. Squadron Signal #84 F4F Wildcat in Action state the order was issued on 15 May 42 issued in ALNAV Dispatch 062230 WINGS magazine dated December 95 mentions the larger star without the red center "prevailed just prior to Midway" Basically, between the first week of May and 2nd week of Midway, numerous photos show several different markings on aircraft ranged on the deck together. Some even show two different styles of markings on THE SAME aircraft. This transition period was very hectic and planes were painted when possible, and in some non-regulation styles. Almost anything goes around the Coral Sea and Midway time period. Long winded, but just some of the references out there.... Dave Lueck -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 25) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: Iron Shipright Hood problems I'm sorry to hear about the casting problems with the IS Hood model. I recently purchased a 1/350 IS Flower class Corvette. While all the smaller parts were well cast the hull had numerous problems like you mentioned. I would encourage you to give these guys a chance before writing them off. I contacted Ted Paris, described my problem and I had a beautiful new hull in my hands in five days! They will replace anything in their kits with no questions asked. Maybe quality control slipped that day. I would make a list of all the problem parts and send it to Ted. I'll bet he replaces them all. Can't help with the fit problems though. The problem with large resin parts is the resin cures slower on large parts than smaller ones consequently too much or too little shrinkage from one part to the other. I hope you get your problems worked out with IS. I'm not affiliated with IS in any way. I just wanted to stand up for their customer service. Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. http://www.okclive.com/flagship/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: John Snyder Subject: Re: IJN colors Our IJN Paint Chip Set has the four grays used by the four principal IJN navy yards (Sasebo, Maizuru, Kure, and Yokosuka), two greens and a tan used on carriers, and the linoleum deck color, along with a partial list of ships connecting them to the various yards at specific dates. The set--along with our two USN sets--is available from several dealers via mail order, or directly from us by mail. John Snyder Snyder & Short Enterprises The Paint Guys -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Caroline Carter" Subject: A Luvverly Bunch of Flowers Please check out Chris Drage's great build feature of 5 WEM Flower Class corvettes (Mr Lambert, I HOPE you approve!) http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/white.ensign.models/bunch/flowers.htm A number of quality articles, fully illustrated, are in preparation at this time... by Chris, Ian Ruscoe, Peter Hall and others, so please submit to the reminder service at the bottom of the homepage for further updates. Also, we will shortly be able to take the JCB card for payment! (Any Japanese readers will know what I am talking about!) I am updating throughout today, so please check back later at the following location for additional news: http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/white.ensign.models/news.htm Cheers! Caroline For a great build of the WEM 1/350 HMS Hood Click here! http://whiteensignmodels.simplenet.com/wemhood/weldon.htm and for a feature on the kit itself Click here! http://whiteensignmodels.simplenet.com/wemhood/hoodinfo.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: Shane Subject: SMML website update & FAQ request Hi gang, I'll be uploading the first update to the back issue page very shortly(within the next couple of hours). The issues will be VOL 218-270 & I'm updating the issues already there to the current format. Just hop over to: http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/4712/ I would urge all subscribers who don't have these issues to download them. They are a great bunch of issues, you will learn all about Flowers, kit instructions & how to "SEW" hulls (sorry Alberto, I couldn't resist it ;-þ ) amongst other fine articles. Over the next few weeks, I hope to have the complete collection up & running. And after that I hope to posting the FAQ, so if there's anything you would like to include in the FAQ, tell me & I'll pass it along to the volounteers in the FAQ Squad. Regards, Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume