Subject: SMML04/05/99VOL535 Date: Wed, 05 May 1999 00:14:03 +1000 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: USN '42 insignia 2: Re: Langley PE 3: Re: Iron Shipright Hood problems 4: Re: 1942 USN Insignia 5: Re: IJN colors at time of Russo-Japanese War. 6: Nichimo 30 CM BBs 7: Re: SMML off line 8: Re: 1942 USN Insignia 9: Re: SMML Across America 10: Re: Blyskawica and Grom 11: Minesweeping 12: Still here in Oklahoma -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: Latest GMM release: IJN Auxiliary Ship Detail Set 2: O.K. then, some news! 3: Sumner 1/350 4: SoonerCon '99 this weekend 5: WEM website update 6: Attn: Keith Butterly -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Satin, Michael N. (SHEP)" Subject: Re: USN '42 insignia Joe, You'll probably get 20 answers to this one, before I send it out. But, they still had the red centers and rudder stripes at Coral Sea but deleted them soon (like a couple of weeks) after. US insignia was in a VERY confused state prior to Midway, with all kinds of sizes and placement for the stars and numbers. But the basic pattern in early '42 was the red center with red/white rudder stripes up to late May, deletion of red center and all rudder stripes thereafter. Hope this helps. Michael Satin -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: Langley PE >> A new set should be drawn two or three times larger than 1/350 and reduced. It would really have to be coordinated with the hull builder so that all those pieces of "ironwork" would fit properly. I also had the parts for the aircraft and crew figures on those sheets. Again, this could be redone. What I am saying though is that the model would require two very large sheets of PE. << You are correct about coordinating the PE with the master pattern builder. I would suggest making 3D CAD drawings of the ship so both the pattern maker and PE designer could work together to make a great model. No doubt it would require two large sheets of PE one . 009 sheet for the heavy girder details and a thinner .007 sheet for the general details. There are some companies out there that can make model patterns from 3D CAD drawings so you could completely design a model on the computer and have a perfect fit everywhere. The advantage to this is that you can bypass the pattern maker saving money but the cost for doing it this way isn't cheap so it balances out. Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. http://warship.simplenet.com/Flagship.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "foeth" Subject: Re: Iron Shipright Hood problems As for a lot of the airbubbles and warped parts, that can be expected in a resin kit, and I'm not too bothered to remedy that (else you shouldn't start in resin anyway). But this model as a lot of gaps in the masters themselves, and some parts needed replacement, in my opinion. I found a lot of glue spots on various parts which hadn't been removed, or scratches which weren't filled. As I mentioned, the turret was so rough that the roughness exceeded the details of all the bolts. On the aft decks, most lockers had a rim around the base. These kinds of inaccuracies were all over the model. The planking on the aft deck part were repaired in a most hastly fashion. In any case, it needed to be repaired again, and this time, with the planking in the same direction as the rest of the part. If you look closely at the following picutre: http://www.warship.simplenet.com/images/Hood/Shelter%20Deck.jpg Here you can see the gaps between the wooden and steel decks near the pompom positions. You can also see the gaps on the superstructure near the aft funnel. http://www.warship.simplenet.com/images/Hood/Guns.jpg In this picture of the guns, you can see some unevenness on the rear of the turret top plates. That's not detail, it's glue. Same thing for the front of the turret. There are a lot of good points I didn't mention, as the hull, which wasn't warped, or the etchings, which are very good. The problem is that due to my study I can't find a lot of time to do all the modeling I want, and when I do find some time, I do not want to spend a lot of time researching the ships plans for replacing most of the large parts. The detail parts were of mixed quality. The anti-aircraft guns were suberb, as were some of the boats. Some of the superstructure parts missed that accuracy. Some parts, when looked on from above, were clearly not symmetrical, and that is not due to resin warping alone. As mentioned before, some of the doors were really very misplaced on the master. As IS does not give you extra doors, this would mean you would have to buy an extra set of doors to correct their badly placed parts. You also get 4 star board props. I don't know if this is a small error at the packaging departement, by the port side props were not on my part list. I put aside all the parts I considered unfit to use, and that became quite a large selection. If this would have been balanced by good manual or color guide, I might have changed my mind, but the manual is very brief. Etched parts aren't even numbered, and you have to find the right part by matching silhouettes. These silhouettes are next to a topviews of a part, as if "glue here", but which piece of railing goes were is not mentioned. I know that shouldn't be that difficult to find out, but it also shouldn't be that difficult to put it into the manual. The part list is also a bit unclear, as some of the superstucture parts aren't numbered but given a letter, and still some of those parts appear to be in the numbered list too. Some parts were absent, and some of the crane booms, which look a lot alike, were impossible to tell apart by what was mentioned on the manual. Same thing for all the smaller boats rudders. There are about 6 or more different kinds, which look alike, and you may find out yourself which one goes where. Rigging plans were also absent, as were the yardarms on the bridge, or starfish yardarms. Also, the starfish were absent on the partlist, in the box, and in the manual they are not even identified, making me wonder if they should be included at all, if it weren't for the picture in the warship article. I know these kits aren't for starters, but I do not like to be forced too spend an extra 100 dollars on plans, extra parts, styrene and books to correct the model. We're not talking about a hundred dollar model here. This ship costs 520 dollars. For that price, I expect most parts to be of a higher quality. I'm still in college, and this model cost me a really a lot. I expect the find my etched parts carefully wrapped, on not on the bottom of the box, already with a few dents in them, and I expect a color guide. The IS manual didn't even mention "Paint gray". I have some of these kits before, by Verlinden, who has a tendency to give you the absolute bare minimum (Even has the guts to tell you to buy his books to find out how you should paint your model). It seemed to me that the masters were made by someone who is clearly a modeling master, but who decided halfway that the model wasn't worth the trouble, or was in a hurry. Again, as mentioned before, the winches were just two pieces of rod glued on a plastic square. For me that is really unacceptable. Even I can do a lot better than that. I'm not giving up Iron Shipwright, but I'm sure giving up their Hood model. When I open up a box, and even with my limited scratchbuilding experience I can say "I can do better than that", I also say "not for 520 dollars". Should Iron Shipwright release small kits of the anti aircraft guns or the smaller boats, they would be my first choice, however. I'd recommend Iron Shipwright to pay a little more attention to gaps between parts (As on on hull part, between deck and bulkheads), and check if the masters are clean before making the moulds, so I do not have to see a lot of "noise" on the castings. Also, if certain parts don't come out of the masters as they were intended (All boat bases had one of the holes filled in exactly the same manner), just make that part again. The partlist should also be complete, including the number of parts needed. I got more than enough small boats and UP-launchers, (plus parts from another kit), but I had to go back and forth in the manual to find out. The etching itself (Which does not give rise to any complain, as the parts are concerned, as it is good. Not up to GMM quality, but sure far above the average. The way IS handles the PE stairs should be the standard) could use numbering, or an extra paper (With a copy of the etching, plus numbers and arrows) identifying the parts, as other manufacturors do. The railing was mostly etched into the right dimensions, which I liked. The manual itself is very minimalistic. That's not realy to much of a problem, as it isn't a starters kit anyway, but it could be a bit nicer, not just a set of 2D pictures. IS uses a lot of sprue and rod to avoid bubbles, but does not tell you which are sprue, and which are model. Again, not really a problem, but it isn't that much of a problem to put it in the manual. It should, however, include plans and drawings for the yardarms and the rigging, plus color references. As it is now, they just as well could have given you 3 or 4 pictures of the ship, with the statement "Completed model should resemble pictures". Evert-Jan Foeth Maintaining a critical view -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: Norman Samish Subject: Re: 1942 USN Insignia >> USN aircraft still carried tail stripes and red discs within the white stars at the time of Coral Sea--as did Doolittle's B-25s a couple of weeks earlier. On the road with no ready references, I can't tell you just when those markings were finally dropped. << John Snyder, are you sure of that? My memory is that the red disks within the white star were dropped very soon after Pearl Harbor, and that Doolittle's B-25s did NOT have the red disk. The April 1999 National Geographic article about Midway (June 4, 1942) shows on page 86 two Dauntless dive-bombers at Midway WITHOUT tail stripes or the red disk- they had white stars on a blue circle without the horizontal white bars. Three insignia can be seen, top of both wings and mid fuselage. So it looks to me that the red disk was painted out between 12/7/41 and 6/4/42. (In the same issue of NG there's a striking photo of the cruiser Mikuma with terrific bomb damage, prior to sinking.) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: "J. London" Subject: Re: IJN colors at time of Russo-Japanese War. Major warships were painted dark gray with red waterline. This was a change from their peacetime colors of black hull, white upperworks, red waterline, black funnels with appropriate funnel bands. In both cases destroyers were black overall. J.M.A.(Mike) London -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: "Katz, Gene S" Subject: Nichimo 30 CM BBs May I dare ask for opinions on accuracy, detail, fit , form, and finish on the subject models? Particularly, Kongo class and Fuso, Yamashiro? What do they scale out to be? Thanks, Gene -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: modeleral@up-link.net (Al Superczynski) Subject: Re: SMML off line >> I'd make an alternative suggestion to downloading and reading mail.If you can with AOL, dump their reader and switch to Eudora lite instead. << One of AOL's drawbacks is that subscribers can't use any other email or newsreader program. I finally got fed up and switched to an ISP & now use Forté Agent - it's not free but well worth the $20 IMHO. Al http://www.up-link.net/~modeleral -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: "Jeff Herne" Subject: Re: 1942 USN Insignia Check out NAVAIR, it has everything you need on US aircraft camo and markings. http://www.geocities.com/capecanaveral/2894 Jeff -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: SeaPhoto@aol.com Subject: Re: SMML Across America Hello again everyone, I am in Norfolk, having just toured the Mariner's Museum in Newport News. While the Naval section is closed for renovation (will reopen sometime during the Summer), there are two outstanding Gibbs and Cox models on display there - a 1/48 scale LSD-22 and a 1/48 CL-119 (The second Atlanta). Both are extraordinary examples of the ship modelers art. Another must see are the ship models of the Crabtree collection. These are wooden, mostly sail (some oar and one steam ship) examples of superb craftsmanship. This fellow was an extremely gifted carver, and made best use of that skill in his choice of subjects. The museum has thoughtfully placed magnifying glasses in strategic locations on some of the models to better show the work. Ship modelers will also appreciate the exhibit showing his methods and an assortment of the tools he used and made. This dedicated steel warship modeler spent a lot of time looking at those wooden ships... The Museum also has a fine room of Passenger ship models, including a very large SS America. Outside, one of the five bladed props of the United States is mounted on a stand, along with one of her propellor shafts. I rate this museum a "must-see" if you are anywhere near the area. Yesterday, I spent a drizzly afternoon touring the North Carolina. The new paint looks great - very striking. Her interior is in better shape than the Alabama's - looks like she has been getting some paint inside as well. The displays are very informative, particularly inside the barbette. Access is much better than BB-60, as you can go into the powder rooms and through a series of placards and displays, see each step of the loading process. She is in the process of replacing much of her planking, so some areas on the main deck were roped off, but this did not seriously interfere with her touring. For those who wish to get a 6 inch piece of that planking, you can get one for a $ 25 donation if you follow this link: http://www.city-info.com/battleship/rest.html I am going to spend several days in Norfolk - there is a lot to do here, and with luck, I will catch the Enterprise Battle Group coming home on Thursday (no secret, it is being broadcast on the TV here). There are three good harbor tours, the Nauticus Museum, another Naval museum in Portsmouth, and more, but that, as they say, is another posting... Kurt In Norfolk, where the weather is not quite as soggy, and may even show a little sun, with luck. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: JOHNEME@aol.com Subject: Re: Blyskawica and Grom Warship Volume I (Conway Maritime Press and US Naval Institue Press, 1977) has a detailed article, with line drawings of both the Blyskawica and Grom at various points in their careers. John Emery El Paso, Texas -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) To: shipmodels@tac.com.au Subject: Minesweeping I looked up minesweeping in Encyclopedia Britannica to see what they had to say. Nothing of interest except a bit about WWI. At the end of the war the US & the UK tried to remove all the mines in the North Sea. The British cleared 23000 mines with "the loss of only 6 monesweepers"! That answers the question asked during the recent thread about what happens if the mine hits the stem of the minesweeper instead of the cable. I should think that the crewmen would find much to do in the stern, & little or nothing in the bow. Denis Johnson In Tampa where it is already too damn hot. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Still here in Oklahoma Shane, This is definitely off topic but I have been flooded with well wishers so I thought I would let everyone know what's going on. Print it if you want. I really want to express my appreciation for all who have emailed me with their support in lieu of the incredible devastation that has occurred VERY close to my home. An F 4 tornado (280 mph winds) came through Moore Oklahoma (about 8 miles from me) and literally wiped the foundations clean of about 500 homes. The news stations ran commercial free for over 9 hours with helicopters sending back utterly amazing footage that would make Speiberg shake. The tornado was about a half mile wide and just caught part of Tinker Field and wiped out a large section of Midwest City where the base is (over 30 dead so far) and we here in Oklahoma have the best meteorologists and equipment in the world. Most fatalities occurred when the tornado crossed a major interstate hi way during rush hour. Some cars were thrown almost a half mile! For about 5 hours they had all the interstate highways shut down because of the debris. Gas leaks were so bad we could smell the gas here over 10 miles away. The neighborhoods where the tornado hit was in a densely populated area and it now looks like Nagasaki, nothing but slabs. There were over twenty tornados from three cells. Fortunately we're still here. Unfortunately the tornado tracked almost right over two modeler friends of mine. I haven't been able to call because of downed power lines but I hope they are all right. As of this morning the hail and the tornadoes are still coming. However, I'm still here and in one piece. All prayers are welcome. I've lived in Oklahoma all my life and I have never seen it this bad. Rusty White Edmond, Oklahoma Hi Rusty, I'm sure I speak for all of us, when I wish you, your family & everyone in Oklahoma affected by the storms all the best wishes we have to send. Shane & Lorna & the SMMLies -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Loren Perry Subject: Latest GMM release: IJN Auxiliary Ship Detail Set Hi, Shane. The 1/700 GMM IJN Auxiliary Ship Detail Set (No. 700-27) is now available. Price is $18 plus $1 postage (North America) or 10% for air mail to all other countries. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "LAMKEEL" Subject: O.K. then, some news! Dear Greg, G.P. Walker (U.K). and all interested smellies. The final Flower Class whatsit's drawings are in the air, somewhere over the Atlantic right now. I only have to scribe the minimalist text, and a pull out G/A drawing. I'm considering H.M.S. Monkshood, a fleet tug conversion of 1942. (Well, its something different). The next month should clear my board for something else. I have just completed a fully detailed set (6 sheets) on Modified Flowers, H.M.S. Burnet and her sisters. By the way Greg, and others in our worlds largest Island, and home of Swan lager. Keep up the good work. I really enjoy the content of our world of smellies. Many thanks. Yours aye. John Lambert. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "Jeff Herne" Subject: Sumner 1/350 Tom's Modelworks should be re-releasing a WW2 Sumner in late summer. I am retooling the pattern, it will be a new one basically, giving you a choice of the 3 bridges and 2 40mm boxes. The plans used for the re-tooling are from my Fletcher Gearing & Sumner book, which are of course done by Alan Raven. You can also expect a WW2 Gearing, and this kit will include the DDR option as well. Keep your eye on http://www.tomsmodelworks.com for more info as it becomes available. Jeff Herne -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: SoonerCon '99 this weekend I hope everyone will be joining us this coming Saturday for SoonerCon '99. Lots of awards, door prizes, vendors and fun. To find out all the information you will need go to the IPMS Metro web site at: http://okinfoweb.com/ipmsmetro/index.htm and down load what you need. Everything from maps to hotel accommodation to rules and categories. See you there. Rusty White President IPMS Metro Oklahoma City -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: "Caroline Carter" Subject: WEM website update Well, chaps, I got right on with stuff as follows re the update with a load more to come (J.B's Sussex build, his 1/700 Nelson Class with the White Ensign Models etched brass and PROFESSIONAL upgrade parts (looks like the real thing.. honestly!).. these are being worked on as we speak. For now.... Please check out the following: WEM OWN PRODUCTS listings with a host of new and forthcoming goodies. Please Click below http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/town/avenue/xdt22/main.htm I have updated the LINKS page (inc the link to the APMA website!) http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/town/avenue/xdt22/links.htm I have updated the WEM 1/350 KITS pages. http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/town/avenue/xdt22/kits350.htm New titles also have just arrived... Three Ark Royals, McCart, h/b, 208pp, profusely illustrated with 8 pages in colour, details all 3 Arks (WW2 and Post-war fleet carriers and the current support carrier) Stunning value-for money 23.00 Flagship Hood, The fate of Britain's mightiest warship, Coles and Briggs, s/b, 269 pp, reprint of the earlier classic, 16 pages of photographs, gripping read 12.99 Captain Class Frigates, Cooper, Leo, h/b, 208pp, history of the type in RN service in the last war, 16 pages of photographs, plus cover pics. 19.95 pounds Also, BS Press, Profile Morskie Tribal Class destroyers, arriving shortly at 8.99 pounds And finally, closing at midnight (!) with a feature on WEM K 3504 1/350 HMS Nurton Ton Class minehunter.. incidentally...MY choice for a first-time resin kit.. if you prefer WW2 then our 1/350 Vosper MTB 523 is an excellent and relatively inexpensive choice as well at 10.00 pounds post free (Rusty White and Dan Jones have seen a couple of kits in this range and would probably agree with me...) Reviews in PSM http://whiteensignmodels.simplenet.com/nurton/nurton.htm That's all for now.. Thanks! Caroline Carter White Ensign Models -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: J.L.Pickstock@lboro.ac.uk (Les Pickstock) Subject: Attn: Keith Butterly Keith. Could you e-mail your address to me again. My super new, previously owned computer has dumped all my backed-up e-mails. Les Pickstock. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume