Subject: SMML07/05/99VOL538 Date: Sat, 08 May 1999 00:06:14 +1000 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: Phone number 2: Re: Photo etch 3: Re: Computerized master patterns 4: Re: IJN Sub Decks 5: Re: Early FLETCHER-class paint schemes 6: NYC tornados... 7: Re: Fletcher paint schemes 8: Re Modeltrak Kits 9: Another Thanks From Oklahoma 10: Fletcher camo schemes 11: Machined Main Battery Guns 12: some extra reading 13: Re: Victory at Sea 14: Patriots Point 15: Vosper, Elco and other coastal craft 16: Re: Victory at Sea 17: Heading South 18: German battleship Schupe? 19: New WSW kits 20: Computerised master patterns 21: WSW Models website? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: more new GMM products 2: New Flagship Models PE set 3: Computerized master patterns -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: Phone number Shane, Everybody may get tired of this I'll understand if you don't post my "help modeler out" post. If you print it please add my phone number. (405) 330-6525 PS: As of 30 minutes after the post over $500.00 worth of models has been donated. I'll keep you informed if you wish to post it. Just let know. Rusty White -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Dave Pearce" Subject: Re: Photo etch I second Roger Torgesons vote for cable reels. Also how about whaleboat oars and rudders in 1/700. Dave Pearce -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "Ron Hillsden, Victoria BC Canada" Subject: Re: Computerized master patterns I think you and several others may be interested in a new discussion group ModelersCad at: http://www.onelist.com. They are mostly model railroaders, but we should be able to overwhelm them! My interest is learning the methods used to create card models. If I can print a 2D drawing on styrene to make a 3D model... Ron Hillsden Victoria BC Canada -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: John Snyder Subject: Re: IJN Sub Decks Mike: I forwarded your query to The SubCommittee List, where there should be several who know the answer. You may get a direct reply, but I will also post any answers to SMML. John Snyder Snyder & Short Enterprises The Paint Guys -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: John Snyder Subject: Re: Early FLETCHER-class paint schemes Dave: O'BANNON began the Guadalcanal campaign in the modified Ms.12 (dapple) scheme, but I believe she had repainted into Ms.21 before it was over; she was clearly in Ms.21 by the time of the Battle of Vella Lavella (6-7 October 1943) when she rammed CHEVALIER (which was also in Ms.21). There is a close-up photo taken aboard NICHOLAS in Roscoe's _U.S. Destroyer Operations in World War II_, showing her just after an air attack on 2/1/43 at the end of the Guadalcanal campaign, and from what I can see she appears to be in Ms.21, overall Navy Blue 5-N. RADFORD was also in Ms.21 at the time of the Battle of Kula Gulf (5-6 July 1943) when HELENA was lost HTH, John Snyder Snyder & Short Enterprises The Paint Guys -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: Mark McKellar Subject: NYC tornados... >> (where tornadoes are an absolute rarity, thank God. << Can you imagine what a cat 5 could do to New York City????? Actually, as a life-time Red Sox fan, a cat 5 that touched down at Yankee Stadium might not be such a bad idea.... just joshin' Mark where the sox have lost 3 in a row.... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: Fletcher paint schemes >> I am at the point in my 1:700 scale Fletcher where I have to decide on a paint scheme and a particular vessel. I would like to depict either Nicholas, O'Bannon or Jenkins before their first refits, but would prefer not to tackle the dapple camo scheme. (official reason: "spoils the lines of the ship" / acutal reason: "too difficult") << Buy the Floating Dry-dock book Camouflage 1. It shows all paint schemes for most classes of warship during WW2. If you want them all get the Camouflage of the WW2 Era "Fleet Carriers book. They're inexpensive and well worth the money. Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. http://www.okclive.com/flagship/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: "graham peter walker" Subject: Re Modeltrak Kits I too have just got their IJN Tatsuta, while not up to the standard of White Ensign kits I think they are very good value for the money £10 for a kit, I would think that it would take about 2 hours to clean up the parts and fit them, anyone with the slightest bit of converting or scratch building would find them a doddle. And ho for the range that they plan on bringing out I can't wait for the Aurora to hit the shop's. There addie is http://www.jadar.com Best wishes Graham@the cruiser sig. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: "Malcolm Batchelor" Subject: Another Thanks From Oklahoma Hi Folks, There are a couple of you that I had been talking to last weekend on different subjects, and I aplogize for the delay in getting back in touch with you, please bear with me. Like Rusty, I was fortunate in that the tornado missed me (approx. 2 miles in my case), just the damage was bad enough that I didn't travel to work to play on the computer until today. I will be trying to help Rusty with Butch Maury's situation for several reasons, we're both Okies, we both went together to Saudi Arabia in '91 courtesy of the Oklahoma Army National Guard, and he is fellow glue sniffer. If you are interested, follow this link: http://www.onenet.net/~odcem/19990503/dapath.jpg It is an aerial view looking northeast, the intersection of S. Western Ave. and SH 37 is in the lower right while Tinker AFB can be seen in the distance. And it still does not do justice to seeing it first hand. Once again thanks, Stuart Batchelor Norman, Oklahoma Where spring has arrived in a very BIG way -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: "Robert Lockie" Subject: Fletcher camo schemes I have trawled through the listing that I compiled when trying to work out which ships had interesting combinations of weapons fit and colour schemes for my own projects. Jenkins had Ms12 in 7/42, then Ms32/6d, then Ms21 in 7/45. I do not have any evidence for a first AA refit (2x twin 40mm midships) but she ended the war with the two midships quad 40s. Nicholas was in Ms12 in 6/42, then in Ms31/24d and Ms32/13d and finally Ms21 in 7/45. The midships twin 40s were carried in 1/44. O'Bannon was in Ms31/6d, then Ms21 in 1/44. The midships twin 40s were carried in 1/44. I would stress that all this was gathered from a variety of sources and the dates are not necessarily the refit dates - they may well be the dates stated in the caption, or on the actual print (e.g. Mare Island photos). My guess is that the refits would be done at the same time as the repaints - certainly that seems to be the case with the anti-kamikaze fit of quad 40s, which was usually done at the same time as the change to Ms21 or Ms22. Unfortunately, I do not have dates for all of them. By the way, my friend was very impressed with the S-boot 2cm information - it answered a few of his queries and forced him to do a bit more work on his model, which should be appearing later in the year. Robert Lockie Cambridge UK -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: DaveRiley1@aol.com Subject: Machined Main Battery Guns I may be in a minority of one - haven't seen it mentioned anywhere, but I have not been thrilled with the main battery guns on warships in either the resin or styrene variety. To me, they look just like plastic and are frequently out of scale to a noticeable degree. The work necessary to smooth them out frequently makes them worse in terms of scale. Given their availability (which I don't believe they are), I would much prefer to use machined main battery guns on my 1/700 and 1/350 scale US and UK warships. Any comments from the field?? Dave Riley Portsmouth, RI -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: Bradford Chaucer Subject: some extra reading SOMETHING TO THINK ABOUT NEXT TIME YOU'RE HAVING A BAD DAY Fire Authorities in California found the corpse in a burnt out section of forest while assessing the damage done by a forest fire. The deceased male was dressed in full wet suit, complete with a dive tank, flippers, and face mask. A post-mortem examination revealed that the person died not from burns but from massive internal injuries. Dental records provided a positive identification. Investigators then set about determining how a fully clad diver ended up in the middle of a forest fire. It was revealed that, on the day of the fire, the person went for a diving trip off the coast - some 20 miles away from the forest. The firefighters, seeking to control the fire as quickly as possible, called in a fleet of helicopters with very large buckets. The buckets were dropped into the ocean for rapid filling, then flown to the forest fire and emptied. You guessed it. One minute our diver was making like Flipper in the Pacific, the next he was doing the breaststroke in a fire bucket 300 feet in the air. Apparently, he extinguished exactly 5'10" of the fire. Some days it just doesn't pay to get out of bed. STILL THINK YOU'RE HAVING A BAD DAY? THINK AGAIN! A man was working on his motorcycle on his patio and his wife was in the house in the kitchen. The man was racing the engine on the motorcycle and somehow, the motorcycle slipped into gear. The man, still holding the handlebars, was dragged through a glass patio door and along with the motorcycle dumped onto the floor inside the house. The wife, hearing the crash, ran into the dining room, and found her husband laying on the floor, cut and bleeding, the motorcycle laying next to him and the patio door shattered. The wife ran to the phone and summoned an ambulance. Because they lived on a fairly large hill, the wife went down the several flights of long steps to the street to direct the paramedics to her husband. After the ambulance arrived and transported the husband to the hospital, the wife uprighted the motorcycle and pushed it outside. Seeing that gas had spilled on the floor, the wife obtained some paper towels, blotted the gasoline, and threw the towels in the toilet. The husband was treated at the hospital and was released to come home. After arriving home, he looked at the shattered patio door and the damage done to his motorcycle. He became despondent, went into the bathroom, sat on the toilet and smoked a cigarette. After finishing the cigarette, he flipped it between his legs into the toilet bowl while still seated. The wife, who was in the kitchen, heard a loud explosion and her husband screaming. She ran into the bathroom and found her husband lying on the floor. His trousers had been blown away and he was suffering burns on the buttocks, the back of his legs and groin. The wife again ran to the phone and called paramedics. The same ambulance crew was dispatched and the wife met them at the street. The paramedics loaded the husband on the stretcher and began carrying him to the street. While they were going down the stairs to the street accompanied by the wife, one of the paramedics asked the wife how the husband had burned himself. She told them and the paramedics started laughing so hard, one of them tipped the stretcher and dumped the husband out. He fell down the remaining steps and broke his arm. Now THAT is a bad day ... Regards, Bradford Chaucer -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: Ives100@aol.com Subject: Re: Victory at Sea Sorry I can't help, I hadn't even heard this was available. Just curious, is this a CD or a Laserdisc video? BTW, my dad was in the original production of The Pacific War, and says he can't recall there being a soundtrack..... Tom Dougherty -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: "Mike Leonard" Subject: Patriots Point Kurts report from the Patriots Point Naval Museum reminded me of a rather preposterous novel I once read, having to do with a group of terrorists who hijack a civilian airliner and plan to land it on the deck of the carrier Yorktown, also stolen by fellow terrorists, who tow it out to sea under cover of darkness. I can't recall the name of either the book or the author, which is probably just as well. Mike L Alexandria, VA USA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: "Bob Pearson" Subject: Vosper, Elco and other coastal craft Greetings All, I am considering a series on various coastal craft for upcoming issues of Internet Modeler and would like to do some colour profiles of Vosper and early Elco boats. In recent SMMLs I have come across references to 'Allied Coastal Forces of WW2' by SMML contributors John Lambert and Al Ross. Is this still available? Regards, Bob Pearson Managing Editor / Internet Modeler www.internetmodeler.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: Marc Flake Subject: Re: Victory at Sea Doug: Victory at Sea and More VIctory at Sea (both the new surround sound versions) are available at www.borders.com. $10.19 each It says "Ships immediately." Marc in Mansfield (TX) Where I'm going to get a new roof courtesy of some golfball-sized hail that hit last week. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: Duane Fowler Subject: Heading South Hello Again, Well I'm still in Taipei but have been informed that I will be headed for Sydney. I have never been there so I would be interested in learning of any maritime exhibits, model shops, etc... Best regards, Duane Fowler And to think, I just saw Greg and Brooke in Anaheim... Hi Duane, Well you'll need to check out the Australian Maritime Museum at Darling Harbour at the very least. We have HMAS Vampire (Daring class DD) amongst others there. Time for a SMML across Australia thread now, methinks Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: "Pletscher-Lenz-Schneider" Subject: German battleship Schupe? The misterious BB "Schupe" most probably is the good old GRAF SPEE. To transscribe the German word SPEE (pronounced like sh p eh) into Japanese, you can take the charakters for "shu" (pronunced rather like sh') and "pe". Re-transscribing it into latin letters by a person who is not familiar with the subject will end up with ship names like "Schupe" for SPEE or - as I read some time ago - "Rivamora" for LIVERMOORE. Falk Pletscher P.S.: You'd better not laugh about those "crazy Japs", or do you know how strange the word MUSASHI looks or sounds to them (especially when spoken with an English accent) ? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: "Pletscher-Lenz-Schneider" Subject: New WSW kits I just got news from WSW: The model of PETROPAVLOVSK (Russian BB, WW1 version) went into production and is scheduled to be ready for delivery at the end of May. Production of the KARLSRUHE kit (KM cruiser) is running parallel. In preparation are POTEMKIN (Russian BB) and AURORA (Russian cruiser) and a WW2 version of the GANGUT class BBs. Falk Pletscher -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: "Martin Short" Subject: Computerised master patterns FWIW, about 10 years ago I had a brief involvement with what was then a new CAD pattern making technique called PHOTO LITHOGRAPHY. I am dredging the memory banks here as to some names, but this technique was developed IIRC by a US company called Spectra-Physics, inconjunction with Ciba-Geigy, for whom I was working at the time. (My notes are buried amongst the junk under the house.!!) The technique involved establishing a 3D pattern using a special software package. The CAD package then sectioned up the pattern into 'slices' or layers. The CAD programme was then used to control a Laser which was directed to trace an image of that particular layer on to the surface of a bath of special Photo- polymer. The Laser crosslinked the polymer so forming a hard surface. Just below the surface of the bath was a platen which lowered by an equivalent amount as each successive layer of the pattern was drawn, thus slowly forming your pattern. The resolution was 1/200 of an inch IIRC. It took 4 - 5 hours to make a complex pattern, but you could form complex 3D shapes very quickly (in pattern-making terms), as well as hollow patterns, cavities etc, as long as there was a drain for the uncured polymer. The formed pattern could be used as is, or cured by heat to form a reasonably robust pattern. Once cured these patterns could also be used for light duty prototyping, and casting patterns. The Polymer chemistry was top-secret back then, but at a guess it was possibly a spin off of photo-initiated crosslinking Acrylic technology. The buy-in cost was very high back then, about $250,000 for the CAD package and LASER set up. The Photo- polymer wasn't cheap either at @ $60/Kg in late 80's NZD's. That aside, once you had bitten the bullet and set up, the running costs were low compared to the cost of running a fully equipped Model/prototyping Shop, and the turn round time was fast. You could have a complex pattern in your hand in a matter of days, compared to months for conventional means. I've had the pleasure of being a technical advisor to a Pattern shop (for materials), so I know from first hand how painstaking pattern making is by hand.(even picked up a few useful tips!..great for scratch building) Back then I could see the benefits as a modeller, because basically you could make anything you wanted within the restrictions of the bath size. You could easily factor in your shrinkage's for what ever medium you intended to use. If your pattern was damaged, simply load up your CAD data and make another identical master! I lost touch with developments when I left C-G,so it either dead or just 'old hat' now. Anyway, it was a most fascinating process and if still in use could be a lot more accessible now for smaller pattern shops, and with the rapid developments in CAD packages..... Hull for a 1/350 scale ship, no problem...... or parts for a complete 1/700 Royal Sov for that matter. cheers, Shorty. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 21) From: "FERNANDO, YOHAN" Subject: WSW Models website? Does anyone know if WSW has a web site anywhere? Yohan Fernando -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Loren Perry Subject: more new GMM products Gold Medal Models has released several products of use to modelers building some of the newly-released plastic kit: GMM No. 240-4 Olympia/Oregon set. This two-in-one set fully equips TWO models: ITC/Glencoe's USS Oregon and the soon-to-be-reissued Revell USS Olympia. 3-D Relief-etched in brass and features dedicated pre-shaped railing sections for both ships with "drooped chain" railing for main decks (featuring simulated individual chain links visible in the railing), vertical and inclined ladders, accommodation ladders with platforms, funnel cap grilles, and yardarm details for both ships. Also, boat platform catwalks, hatch awning frame, and mast ratlines for Olympia, plus crane details, ship's wheel, upper deck supports and main deck awning stanchions for Oregon, as well as 3-D relief-etched boat davit pulleys and rigging eyebolts for both ships. Fully illustrated instructions. Available now. Price: $40 plus postage (or $20 per model.) GMM No 700-5 WW2 German Warship set. Equips one model - 3-D relief etched stainless steel. Can be used with any 1/700 scale WW2 German Warship kit currently available in plastic including the carrier Graf Zeppelin. Includes pre-shaped railing with pre-curved sections for upswept forward decks, simulated "drooped chain" main deck railing, and 3-D relief-etched simulated canvas-covered railing for all classes of WW2 German warships, vertical and inclined ladders, seven FuMo radars of four types, Bismarck/Tirpitz aircraft and boat cranes, hangar doors, and catapults, funnel cap grilles, 20mm guns, bridge wings with integral canvas-covered rails for all classes of capital ships available in plastic, boat details, yardarms, cable reels, and main gun turret details. Also provides Arado 196 seaplane struts and propellers for two aircraft. Fully illustrated instructions. Available now. Price: $12 plus postage. GMM No 200-1 1/200 Yamato set. Newly upgraded very large brass set relief-etched in 3-D for use with Nichimo's plastic kit. Provides pre-shaped railing with specially curved rails for upswept bow, "drooped chain" main deck railing with simulated individual chain links, & dedicated pre-shaped chain-link railing for main and secondary gun turrets, blast bag restrainers for secondary gun turrets, 3-D relief-etched aircraft catapults (with interior girder details), aircraft shuttles, trolleys, & propellers, 3-D relief-etched aircraft crane tower & jib, vertical & inclined ladders, funnel cap grilles & wind baffles, 3-D relief-etched watertight doors, gun director catwalks & rails, wind direction indicators, Type 13 and Type 21 radars, and perforated funnel catwalk. Fully illustrated instructions. Available now. Price: $80 plus postage. NOTE: The same set is also available in 1/350 scale (GMM No. 350-5 @ $36) and 1/700 scale (GMM No. 700-4 @ $12). The 1/700 scale version has recently been upgraded yet again to precisely fit the newly re-tooled Tamiya plastic kit. Both sets available now. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: New Flagship Models PE set New from Flagship Models Inc. is our 1/700 scale USS Texas/New York super set. The set was made to fit the new Viking Models New York kit but will outfit any 1942-45 dreadnought. It was painstaking designed from actual plans of these two dreadnoughts and feature raised etched relief on all parts. It retails for $19.00 + .75 S&H Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. http://www.okclive.com/flagship/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: Tim Perry Subject: Computerized master patterns Hi Rusty and everyone, I just hope I'm not going to regret this posting! The company I work for (Kinneir Dufort Industrial Design, plug, plug!) is just installing a stereolithographic machine, and I (along with two of my co-workers) are about to do the operators training course. A design is done on 3D CAD/modelling software, then the data sent to the STL machine. This machine 'grows' models out of a tank of epoxy resin using a laser beam scanning over the surface of the liquid. The model is built layer by layer, and the model lowered into the resin as each new layer is added. Eventually the complete model is removed from the tank, cleaned up and there it is! Scary stuff.... I will say now that this piece of kit is costing us a whole lot of money, including new air conditioning, training, some very expensive materials (the resin is over £100, yes $160, per kilo!) and so the service offered will not come cheap. If anyone is interested however, drop me a line and I will hopefully have some ideas of prices in a couple of months time. My boss would appreciate me saying, though, PLEASE, no time wasters. This process is not designed for a hobby application and any work undertaken will be charged at a full commercial rate. No doubt this would apply to any similar commercial outfit you contact. If anyone wants to know more about rapid prototyping techniques, try the following websites: http://www.3dsystems.com http://www.kpcast.com http://www.sanders-prototype.com http://www.materialise.be/nextday http://www.helisys.com http://www.protogenic.com http://www.zcorp.com I won't add a tag line about the weather here in Bristol UK. With what Rusty and his fellow Oklahomans have had to endure, it sounds rather pathetic. All our thoughts are with you, Rusty. Keep your chin up! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume