Subject: SMML08/05/99VOL539 Date: Sat, 08 May 1999 23:59:34 +1000 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: Computerized master patterns 2: Removing Casting Blocks 3: Machined Main Battery Guns 4: SS Edmund Fitzgerald 5: O'Bannon Camoflauge Help 6: Italeri Admiral Scheer 7: Re: NYC Tornado and GMM Olympia/Oregon Set 8: Re: Computerized master patterns 9: Re: SMML across America 10: Modelkrak kit of SZIN JEN 11: Re: Book Request -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: International Maritime Modeling - May '99 Update 2: Pacific Front - New Items 3: FS: Matchbox Flower Class Corvette 4: new products and lower prices at Research in Scale -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Timothy Dike" Subject: Re: Computerized master patterns >> I know for a fact some companies exist that can produce master patterns from CAD files. I want to know if anyone knows of such companies. I know it isn't cheap but to design a model on the computer would result in perfect fitting masters and I would be very much interested in that. Viking Models hull to the 1/700 New York was done this way but they are reluctant to share the information with me. << Rusty, There are allot of companies that have this capability. There are Rapid Prototyping services available that will take a 3D Solid AutoCAD file (or other CAD type) and create a mockup using a Resin (nothing like the stuff we are familiar with) The process is called stereo lithography and your right it isn't cheap. Another process that is in use, is a laminated printing process that can be used to build a good mockup for a pattern. I think that these patterns would be too rough for the fine work required in 1/700-1/350. There are some machine shops that will work with CAD files as well and can make steel, alum. or plastic mold pieces. A process called Wire EDM can produce some very intricate details, this is how most of our newer plastic molds are produced. With all this fantastic technology out there, we should be seeing more and more models produced sooner. mailto:Cadman@kc.net http://www.kc.net/~cadman/ "A still sea never wrought a skillful sailor" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: ALTON007@aol.com Subject: Removing Casting Blocks What is the best way to remove resin parts mounted on casting blocks. I can never get it all off. Maybe I'm trying to go to fast....... Thanks Andy -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "foeth" Subject: Machined Main Battery Guns Lathed barrels are common among military models (tanks, for those really blue water guys). But, they cost around $10 each (In holland, and it's supposed to be cheaper than in spain, where they are manufactored (Rubio barrels). US prices are around $20, or so I have heard). I don't think it's the material thats making them expensive (aluminium) but the labour, so 8-10 small BB barels might be very expensive. I do prefer these barrels (Although the casting on the modern Tamiya and Dragon kits is getting very good) for the more complex shapes, and they are generally more correct, and show better detail. Still, I prefer styrene over resin (Styrene barrels are straighter if, sigh, the molds were properly alligned), and I prefer both overwhite metal. I too would like to see that tapered end on my UK barrel, and a lathing machine is ranking high on my wishlist (One place below "lots of money"), as you can make many usefull parts with it. Still, I think a commercial set of barrels is too expensive. EJ Foeth -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: Bill Wiseman Subject: SS Edmund Fitzgerald Hoping you folks can help, I'm building the Commanders/ Gulfstream 1/700 SS Edmund FItzgerald. The only pictures I can find are prints or paintings Any ideas about the red used on her hull and main deck? From the early video footage (thanks Discovery Channel) it almost looks like what we in the Navy called Red Lead primer. I know her superstructures were white. Her red funnel sported a yellow stripe with the" C" in it. I don't know what color red to use. Any help would be appreciated. Bill Wiseman -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: THENRYS@aol.com Subject: O'Bannon Camoflauge Help So far I've posted far more questions than answers to the group, but I am in need of more assistance. I'm about to order some of the Badger Marine colors to give them a try, and I had a question re. the proper colors for the O'Bannon near the time of its duel with the Hiei. Best I can tell, the O'Bannon was in Ms 12 Dapple, which I assume is still 5-S from the waterline to the main deck, then 5-O to the funnel tops, then 5-L above the funnel tops, with 20-B Deck. In that case, what color makes up the dapple camo. Note that I am not a color nut, and pretty close looks pretty good to me, particular in the smaller ship scales, but I have as yet not found what the dapple color is, save the Tamiya painting instructions. Anyone willing to help out a (reforming) aircraft builder? Todd Henry -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: Growlrr@aol.com Subject: Italeri Admiral Scheer Hi Gang.... Was at a show last week and came across a 1/720 Italeri Admiral Scheer for five bucks and couldn't resist. I hadn't seen this around in a while. Giving it a quick ones over, I was actually very pleasantly surprised by the molding...Some of it (masts, AA guns etc) are destined for the dumpster, but overall it looks like a good starting point. I have no idea as ti its accuracy though...Anybody tackled this one or have any info on it? Thanks Glenn -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: Bradford Chaucer Subject: Re: NYC Tornado and GMM Olympia/Oregon Set >>> (where tornadoes are an absolute rarity, thank God. <<< >> Can you imagine what a cat 5 could do to New York City????? << It would probably get mugged :-) Actually Mayor Rudy would probably either: 1. declare it a new government urban renewal program, or 2. have it arrested!! >> Gold Medal Models has released several products of use to modelers building some of the newly-released plastic kit: GMM No. 240-4 Olympia/Oregon set. This two-in-one set fully equips TWO models: ITC/Glencoe's USS Oregon and the soon-to-be-reissued Revell USS << Loren: How is this different from the current Oregon/Olympia set that you released over a year ago?? Regards, Bradford Chaucer -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: SeaPhoto@aol.com Subject: Re: Computerized master patterns If I can add a bit of information on this, the laser / polymer process is called Stereolithography. Although it is an amazing process, it does not produced a finished prototype all by itself. Once the polymer object is formed, it must be sent to a curing over to be hardened. Although this helps, the material is still softer than a lot of plastics. A bigger drawback are the tiny steps on the surface, particularly curves, do the nature of the procecss. Because the part is formed in layers, each is visable (they are small, in the thousandths of an inch, but visable). So, these parts still require finsh work by skilled pattern makers, although much less than other CAD processes. Others have talked about the cost - generally this is a function of the height of the parts (more height = more hours in the tank on this expensive machine) and the mass). I have been told 50 - 100 per 1/4 inch, although prices I am sure vary with locality and competition. Another type of CAM uses laminated paper to form the master pattern. This has thinner steps, but may not be too useful for our purposes as it still needs to be sealed before making a mold. You can also use your CAD files to run a 3D milling machine or Router. These can produce surprsingly intricate designs, although no undercuts are possible. You can get into this for well under $ 2,000 now. Those interested might want to pick up a copy of Home Shop Machinist at the local newstand, or search on the Net. Hope this helps a bit, Kurt Greiner SeaPhoto Maritime Photography (In Washington DC, where its Sunny and Nice - Yeah!) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: SeaPhoto@aol.com Subject: Re: SMML across America Hi Everyone, Another report - this time on Annapolis MD and the Washington Navy Yard. These are must see destinations for warship model lovers who visit the Washington, DC area. Annapolis is home to the US Naval Academy, which has a fantastic museum for the Navy's history. In it, you will find numerous models (including some fantastic bone models made by French POW's during the Napolenonic Wars), as well as important relics from history. For example, the table used on the Missouri for the Japanese surrendor is displayed there, along with one of the pens used. Scattered about the campus are a number of large scale models of US warships - you should write in advance about these since some are in classrooms and other areas that are not normally open to visitors. One of these is the phenominal USS Agerholm, a 1/24 scale cutaway model of a USS DD (Gearing or Sumner - I always mix the two up). Wow, what a model. While you are there, be sure to visit the Naval Institute bookstore on the ground floor, next to the Rodgers ship model collection - they have copies of most in print books, and a nice display of prints and knicknacks. In addition to the Academy, it is a great town (set on a river) and lovely area to visit - I personally guarantee that your wife, girlfriend (or both) will enjoy the area. From there, it was about an hour's drive to Washington and the Navy Yard museum. Although the area around it is run down, there is security at the gate, so don't worry. Once you get inside, you are in for a treat. A preserved DD, the USS Barry (DD 933, a Forest Sherman) is preserved there - well preserved, I might add, with a lot of spit and polish. A Swift boat is on display, as well as the conning tower of the Balao (SS-285) A lot of Naval guns are in a park by the water, as are assorted missiles, radar, and other artifacts. One that caught my eye was a test section of Japanese Yamato class armor - it had been holed by a 16" us shell. Of course, inside the museum, it gets even better. A lot of models - way too many to list, but figure just about every major class is represented. Some standouts would have to be the BB-63 in 1/48 scale(!), complete with surrender table on the deck, several large supercarrier models, a lot of Great While Fleet units, a model of the Panay - well, you get the idea. Full size airplanes and submersibles (Trieste and Alvin) are suspended from the ceiling). Trust me on this one - if you can only see one Navy museum in the US, this would be it. Kurt -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: "Pletscher-Lenz-Schneider" Subject: Modelkrak kit of SZIN JEN I had a closer look on the Modelkrak kit of the Japanese (ex Chinese) turret ship SZIN JEN (also known as CHIN'EN). The casting is done very sharp and clean, except of the notorious big casting blocks. To get the hull clean of it, you have to sand down a resin plate of 2mm strength. The gun turrets and the bridge deck have to be freed from moulding channels. The small parts can be cut off easyly. If you have enough time, you surely can live with this. But a closer look on the details might cause some disappointment, for there are some (too much in my opinion) faults: - The portholes are nicely drilled where there should have been square shutters. The four big round windows in the aft deck house are missing. - The bulges around the bases of the turrets are missing. - The ring around the funnel above the widening is missing. - The boat cradles abaft the second funnel are missing as well as the boats, although they are shown in the plan. - The shields of the secondary guns are too small and not shaped correctly. - The cranes for the anchors which were integrated into the bow are missing. - The searchlights are very crude and more resembling a compass. They also should be placed on the lower platform of the foremast, rather than on the bridge deck. - Four vents on the main deck are missing. - The other four vents for the main deck (which are seemingly copied from another kit) are to big and don't resemble the real thing too much. - The raised platform at the bottom of the main mast should have a prolongation aft over nearly half the length of the aft deck house with boat cradles on both sides - at least when you want to show the ship in her appearance of 1904 which is that of the painting instructions (not that of the plan). - No need to mention that the davits and masts and gun barrels are totally ... (you got it:) missing (not even a piece of rod or threat was i n the box) and the building instruction doesn't even give the measurements for them. Well, you can call me a pedant. But I payed about $25 for the kit. This is not much, but I think it is not o.k. to get no more for it than some basic parts which need some hours of work for cleaning and working up while the rest of the model has to be scratch-built (after doing the necessary reserch to get some proper plans and references). I really love the ships of that pre-Dreadnought era, and it is of great merit that Modelkrak turned to them. I also know that resin kits are not cheep and, in general, need some working-up. But do we modellers have to accept everything? I am afraid that as long as we do not call bunkling by its name, we will have to. I hope my words were not too harsh. If they were, blame it on my limited English. If I was the Queen, I surely would have said: "We are not amused". Falk Pletscher -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: Steve Singlar Subject: Re: Book Request >> I'm looking for a copy of a book called "Flush Decks and Four Pipes"...I can't remember the authors name (John Alden?)....I know I have seen it in paperback format, but I would be happy with any decent version....Does anyone have a copy they would be willing to part with at a fair price or I'll trade for an autographed copy of my Warship Perspectives Atlanta Cruisers book...I'll even personalize it.... :o) << I am way behind on my email. I appologize if this was already answered. I may still have the book you are looking for. I have to check. I am assuming you've checked with Pacific Front Hobbies and Amazon. Steve Singlar -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Felix Bustelo Subject: International Maritime Modeling - May '99 Update Hello SMMLers, I am pleased to announce that the May 1999 update to IMM is now up. The update to the site includes: Photos of two very different Queen Marys - Peter Hall's 1/570 kit build and Tom Varney's mammoth 1/92 scratchbuild project and Atle Ellefsen's Seaview fantasy submarine in the Photo Gallery. Quick Kit Reviews of Airfix 1/600 Graf Spee, PT Dockyards 1/600 US Navy PC Subchaser and German TA24 (ex Italian Ariete-class) destroyer escort and Civil War Ironclads Available! 1/185 USS Tecumseh card model. Reviews of White Ensign Models 1/600 Belfast superdetail set, Gold Medal Models 1/600 Bismarck/Tirpitz and 1/240 Buckley/Ward photoetch sets and Tom's Modelworks 1/600 3-bar and 2-bar railings and ladders sets in Photoetch Reviews. Book Reviews of the William Veigele's PC Patrol Craft of World War II. Update of the Kit List page to include new items from PT Dockyard 1/600 Resin Miniatures. Updates to the Links page. Check out what is new at Reasearch In Scale Keep those votes for a new resin 1/600 scale kit coming in! Atlantic Models is willing to produce a kit if enough interest is shown for a particular subject. Check out IMM for details. Please vote if you haven't yet and those who did, thank you. Felix Bustelo IMM Webmaster http://members.tripod.com/~Febus65/imm.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: Bill Gruner Subject: Pacific Front - New Items We now have the new 1/700 photoetch sets by both Tom's Modelworks and Gold Medal Models for the Imperial Japanese Auxiliary vessels, such as Chogei, Akitsushima, Akashi, Chitose class, and possibly the Waveline Nisshin kit. The new Modelkrak kits of old Imperial Japanese cruisers Miyako, Nisshin and Kasuga have just arrived. 1/700 brass machined gun barrels for both US Navy (16"/45 and 16"/50 cals) and IJN ( 3 battleship sizes - 14", 16" and 18"-due 2 weeks) and several smaller cal. IJN sizes are NOW available. Thanks, Bill Gruner http://www.pacificfront.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "John S. Platt" Subject: FS: Matchbox Flower Class Corvette Good evening ladies and gentlemen I am trying to reduce the size of my kit collection and I have a spare Corvette to dispose of. I know it makes a very large model which may be unholy to some of you but if anyone is interested, make an offer. Best wishes. John S. Platt. Brasted, Kent, UK where its very dark. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: HDente@aol.com Subject: new products and lower prices at Research in Scale WSW: DKM Karlsruhe--$55.00 With the Profile Morskie--$62.00 USS Quincey---$55.00 USS Askold----$35.00 Regia Marina Motocisterue Iridio (new)---$60.00 Light Carrier G. Garibaldi----$87.00 RN Ascari Soldati class---$35.00 Delphis Bretague (1940) new!------$70.00 Profile Morskie Tribal class Destroyers---$14.00 AJ Press U-Bootwaffe, PT 2 --------------$14.00 Deutchland/Lutzow -----------$15.00 Graff Spee-------------------$15.00 Shipping is $4.00< $50.00, $5.00 =/> $50.00 Mail checks to: RIS 205 Maryland Ave, Paterson, NJ 07503 e-mail hdente@aol.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume