Subject: SMML10/05/99VOL541 Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 00:19:25 +1000 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: beware Viking Models 2: Viking Models 3: Re: Trimming casting blocks 4: Re: RN boat colors. 5: Camouflage of the O'Bannon 6: Re: Viking quality controll 7: Re: SMML Across America 8: Re: Edmund Fitzgerald 9: RAN gray 10: SS Edmund Fitzgerald -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Robert A. Clifton, R.A." Subject: Re: beware Viking Models Charles T. had a problem with Viking Models that virtually mimics the problem that I have with them. I too bought the Alvin kit and noticed that the decals were missing. I also had a few questions that I wanted to ask regarding certain items which were somewhat badly cast. I wasn't complaining, as I figured I would simply replace them, but I'd like to know what the original looked like (call me picky). I sent them an email a few months ago and have never received a reply, not even an acknowledgment. I've noticed some Viking products have received some pretty good reviews recently in various publications. Let the buyer beware. As far as I'm concerned if one kit doesn't get decals, its an honest mistake, if it happens in more than one case, there is a problem with the manufacturer, and things start to smell bad. I now have a kit that is unbuildable unless I go back to school for a few years to get a degree in Oceanography and then sign on for the next Alvin research mission. A tad more than I had planned to spend on research for this kit. Bob Clifton -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: Bradford Chaucer Subject: Viking Models Regarding Charles T's comments about Viking, it should be noted that they have moved, and have a new phone number. That fact is noted on their web page. I had a very different experience with them. I purchased their 1/350 Texas kit and got one of the early versions. Suffice it to say that it had numerous quality problems. When I contacted them, they asked me to provide them with a list of the problems which I did, mainly consisting of molding problems, an attempt at a hollow hull which didn't work well and missing parts. They told me that they were going to redesign the hull, and replace my kit in full, which they did in the time frame that they told me the redesign would take. The new kit was a tremendous improvement. I would suggest that Charles, or anyone else who has a problem with them or any other manufacturer contact them, politely but persistently, but to also remember that any business, particularly a small business where employees frequently wear several hats may take some time to resolve the issue. Regards, Bradford Chaucer -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: Dave Judy Subject: Re: Trimming casting blocks Andy, One way, I found works is to take an Exacto saw and score along each side to about 1/8" depth, then proceed to cut all the way through!(the scoring tends to guide the saw) then sand the remaining little left. The belt sander Rusty uses is a great little tool( I have their 1/4" drill, and it's worth its weight in gold!) Dave Judy -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: "J. London" Subject: Re: RN boat colors. The boats on Ark Royal would have been painted hull color in war time. In peacetime, according to Norman Ough the famous ship modeller, I find the following info. 27 ft whaler: Hull gray with bottom (up to level of floor boards) either dark gray or pale blue. Interior is white with thwarts and stern sheet benches left natural wood. 25 ft motor boat: No info on hull color but probably white. Cabin is varnished teak with corticene top (corticene is otherwise known as battleship linoleum and is a milk chocolate color). Interior white with wood grating over floor. Small portion of deck at bow is planked. No precise info on other boats. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: Vimieraa@aol.com Subject: Camouflage of the O'Bannon I was interested to read that the destroyer O'Bannon was painted in Measure 12 camouflage in November 1942. Can anybody give the specific reference for this camouflage being worn at this date. I would have thought that the ship would have repainted out the Measure 12 style by November, and be wearing Measure 21. Further on the topic of the wearing of Measure 12 Camouflage. I have always thought that only a minority of ships present at the start of the Solomons campaign (those actually taking part in operations in the South Pacific), were carrying Measure 12, with the majority being in Measure 21, and that the percentage of vessels in Measure 12 decreased as the campaign wore on so that by November of 1942 only a handful were so painted. Without looking up material I can only think of ONE ship that MAY have been painted in Measure 12 in November and that was the cruiser Juneau, and this is based on the photo taken of her in late October. It is quite possible that Juneau may have repainted into Measure 21 right after the photo was taken. It is my belief that ships transferring from the Atlantic arriving at Pearl Harbour from around August on, repainted into Measure21 AT Pearl Harbour, and would therefore arrive in the combat areas in overall Navy Blue. There is also the use of Measure 22 in the South Pacific. Does anybody have any DEFINATIVE data as to its use or OTHERWISE in the Pacific in late 1942? I include ALL areas of the Pacific in this question. I hold myself in eager readiness for every surperbly crafted reply. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: Viking quality controll >> I am so tired of the small cottage industry kits that are just not complete, or of poor quality and high price. Regardless of the obscurity of the subject, a kit that includes all the parts that are promised with decent instructions and honest customer service is the least to be expected. If anyone knows 'Dan Joplin' or the other partners of Viking Models...tell them to treat their customers fairly or remove the 'promise' of customer satisfaction that is on their website. << Things like this happen there all the time at Viking. When I decided to enter a partnership with Viking for the casting of my Close In Weapon System I went over all the points brought up here. The one I hate most about allowing someone else distribute your product, is the fact that you lose quality control and hope they keep your high standards. I addressed specifically their practice of shipping models without the photo etch or decals. I told them that they were building a reputation and they should take it very seriously. This has been mentioned by me more than once and apparently it has fallen on deaf ears. I designed a couple of detail sets for their kits in exchange for casting and CIWS kits for my personal inventory. So far they have come up way short of the agreement. They have sold the kits to distributors and are long overdue paying me anything they agreed to in our agreement. Since their reputation is rubbing off on Flagship Models I will be terminating our agreement very soon and will be using a new caster. What I would suggest, is sending back the incomplete kits via registered mail and demand a full refund. Be sure and tell them why and kind of reputation they are making for themselves. The only outcome to doing business and treating their partners and distributors in this manner will result in the company failing. I just hope I can get most of what is owed me before this occurs. Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. http://www.okclive.com/flagship/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: SeaPhoto@aol.com Subject: Re: SMML Across America A quick update today. I drove from Virginia to New Brunswick, New Jersey today, via Baltimore and Philadelphia. At Baltimore, there is the USS Torsk (SS-423) and the USCG Taney (WHEC-37) - they are in the inner harbor, and available for touring. Although I did not tour them this time, I did 5 years ago and they were in very good condition. Externally, they look fine, although the Torsk has a sharks mouth painted on it for some reason. My main reason for stopping was to see some of the Moran tugs that are berthed there. For American television fans, they tie up at a dock that serves at the headquarters for the dectives on the TV show Homicide. Quaint little part of town, just make sure your dental work is secure while driving through the brick paved streets. From there, I took the highway to Philadelphia, stopping for a bit at the Aberdeen Proving Grounds, where US Armor is tested. A very worthwhile stop for anyone with an interest in tanks, artillery or self propelled guns, as they have a lot on display there. The railway gun nicknamed Anzio Annie is there, as is a coastal rifle originally meant for one of the BB's cancelled by the Washington Treaty. Just about every Russian tank produced during and after the second world war is there, along with a nice selection of German units - Panthers, a King Tiger, and many others. When you drive onto the base, you pass a mile of tanks parked in the median strip at 40 foot intervals - a very impressive display! At Philadelphia, there is the Olympia, and the Becuna preserved for those intersted in those warships. The Olympia has had a lot of work done recently - she looked nice from the outside, though again, I toured her previously. My main goal was to find the SS United States, and snap some pictures of her, which I did. She is about a mile south of Penn's landing along the waterfront. Although she is behind a fence and gate, she is very visable from public areas. Although a bit battered and faded, she still has granduer, and her red, white and blue funnels still dominate the dock area. On the way to see the United States, I passed the ex-Navy Yard, which is now a controlled acess industrial park. From the freeway, I could see a lot of the decommissioned ships there - Charles F. Adams, Leahy's, and even some Brooke class FFG's. All have been demilitarized from my quick observations - gun barrels torched, that kind of thing. Tommorow, I am going to take a quick trip into New York to see the Intrepid (I promised a buddy I would try and shoot the CB-1 model), and if time permits, pay the Naval Base a visit - the store, I mean. I want to be in Groton by night, so I can tour the sub musuem on Tuesday - my schedule is starting to get tight. Kurt -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: Lisa and Bill Wiseman Subject: Re: Edmund Fitzgerald Thanks for all of the responses. The grainy Discovery Channel video dupes, probably from 8mm home movies, made it look like Red Lead (Red Oxide). My only Great Lakes experiences are on Lake Michigan (NTC Great Lakes) and fishing on Lake Ontario and the St Lawrence. The only Freighter traffic I saw was sea going (salties) with the big Corporate Paint Jobs. The video of her launching looks like she was originally black and white but sounds like she was repainted for ease of maintenance. Thanks again for the assist, Bill "Doc" Wiseman -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: Stuart Robottom Subject: RAN gray Greetings to all. Does anyone out there happen to know what Humbrol colour(s) give the modern RAN gray? I am building HMA Ships Brisbane and Sydney in Gulf War fit, and the photos I have show the RAN ships being considerably more green in colour than other warships. Thanks in advance, Stuart Robottom http://www.deakin.edu.au/~robottom/ Hi Stuart, In regards to the RAN Grey/Green, the APMA issue Spring 1991 has a colour chip in it. Lindsay Charman also states in 2/91 that he uses the following humbrol mixes: White - 10 parts Dark Green - 2 parts Black - 1 part I'd assume they all matt paints. he's also adjusted for "scale colour" if you're into that. Time for a big PLUG. Check out the APMA homepage at: http://www.tac.com.au/~sljenkins/apma.htm & check out the backissues in the early 90s. They're pretty good for RAN references, at a nice price. The issues you want are the following: HMAS Adelaide class FFG's Pt 1 APMA 91/1 1991 article HMAS Adelaide class FFG's Pt 2 APMA 91/2 1991 article HMAS Adelaide class FFG's Pt 3 APMA 91/3 1991 article W/ RAN paint chip HMAS Adelaide class FFG APMA 97/2 1997 photopage Also check out IPMS(UK) 2/99, which has an article on RAN ships during the Gulf War. Although I don't agree with his conclusion that RAN ships in the gulf were painted haze grey. Regards, Shane Asst Listmaster, APMA VP & Asst Editor APMA Magazine -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: Colin Ritchie Subject: SS Edmund Fitzgerald Off topic - Sort of The posts recently re the Edmund Fitzgerald has set me wondering about the songs written about the wreck by, I think, Gordon Lightfoot. Anybody out there know if there's a CD out there with that song on it. On a good day I can remember about half of the verses of it, but I sure like to have the full version to hand, one of these days Thanks Colin Ritchie Aberdeen, where spring may have arrived, at last.... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume