Subject: SMML16/05/99VOL547 Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 00:19:06 +1000 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re Bismarck Baltic Camo 2: Re: USS Indianapolis 3: Yamato Catapults 4: Admiral Scheer Colors 5: Re: Bismarck 6: Waveline New Orleans 7: Re: Oregon and 1/350 fittings 8: USS Indianapolis 9: Re: Research 10: Re: SMML across America 11: Re: Viking 12: NOVOGOROD kit quick review 13: IJN Pink Paint? 14: Photographing models 15: Lightship models 16: Availability of the Revell tug/Peter Hall's query 17: Flower Class Corvette 18: USS Enterprise 20mm guns -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: Model ship Collection sale 2: resin casting 3: Nautilus YORKTOWN set & other items -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Al Imler Subject: Re Bismarck Baltic Camo The Bismarck's Baltic Camo scheme consisted of Sqirrel Gray hull and Silver Gray upperworks. The stripes being black and white with the bow and stern being dark gray to "shorten" the sillouette. The turret tops were wine red/kaiserrot I. The false bow waves were white. I've never seen any reference to the turret tops being caramel brown. It doesn't seem like it would be to good for identification from the air. When the ship left for Norway the turret tops were painted dark gray with the rest of the Baltic scheme remaining the same until leaving Norway. Squirrel Gray and Silver Gray are the German translations for the medium and light gray. (Dunkelgrau und hellgrau) I hope this helps. Al Imler -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: Dave Judy Subject: Re: USS Indianapolis Filipe, Contact Steve Wiper at Classic Warships, he has a wonderful book(softbound) on the Indy, it should answer all your questions! Dave Judy -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "chenyangzhang" Subject: Yamato Catapults Lynton and Lacroix refer to a new type of catapult, the Type 1 No.2 Model 11 which was fitted to the Agano, Noshiro, Ise and Hyuga as well as the Musashi and Yamato. Skulski's book on Yamato is incomplete (see the intro to his latest work, The Battleship Fuso) and so I expect will be revised. The models probably take shortcuts - most representations I've seen are approximations of the Kure Type No. 2 Model 5. I'd go with Lynton and Lacroix unless there is definate evidence the other way. Chris Langtree -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: GrafSpee34@aol.com Subject: Admiral Scheer Colors In response to the color inquiry regarding Admiral Scheer during her 1941 South Atlantic sortee, I had a look through my references. The best reference on this action is still the book written and published during the war by the ship's propaganda officer, J. Brenneke. Photos in there show the ship to have been painted a light grey color. Comparing the exterior bulkeads to the officer's white uniforms, there is not a lot of contrast. Interestingly, the Arado is also painted a very light color, and all insignia on the underside of the wings and sides of fuselage have been removed. The tail swastika is present. I would not care to hazard a guess whether the aircraft has been painted the same grey as the hull with thinned out paint from the ships store, or if it is overall sky blue. Photos in Elfrath's book "Die Deutsche Kriegsmarine" show Scheer after her refit, but before the sortee in Wilhelmshaven in light grey with dark shaded main battery tops. Possibly dark red, but... I also have seen a color picture from a wartime Signal magazine that purports to show Scheer meeting with Thor in the S. Atlantic in 1941. This picture shows only a midship section, but in a distinct medium to darkish grey. BW photos in the article show a dark shaded turret top. This may not be contradictory since I recall Scheer stopped underway to scrape barnacles and make other repairs. Fresh paint may have been applied. I cannot say for certain. As for deck swastikas and turret top colors of the Scheer, please recall that these are air-recognition meausures and which would serve no purpose when out of range of German aircraft, and would only attract unwanted attention. During such a long sortee to the South Atlantic, the Scheer certainly did not display deck swastikas. Whether these were overpainted with grey paint, or sanded off, I do not know. The turret tops were probably dark grey to cut down on the glare caused by sunlight and spray. No red or yellow. I would therefore recommend painting the model overall light grey, with darker grey main battery tops, no swaz. Hull below water line, dark reddish brown, dark grey boot top, dark grey steel decks. If anybody complains about it, tell 'em I told you to do it that way. Dave Krakow -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: KDur597268@aol.com Subject: Re: Bismarck Thanks to all for their replies. I haven't figured out how to properly do quoting when the digest must be dowloaded, so I'll just trust you know who you are if I refer to your statement. I found some nice pictures in a book called "Bismarck: A Survivor's Story" written by the Capt.'s adjutant. Turning out to be a good read, too. Does anyone know anything about the forthcoming Bismarck-class book from NIP? I went ahead and ordered it, so I'll report when i get it. Evert - where can one find the technical documentation you mentioned? At least a place to start. I'm assuming that they are graphic - I can read German ok, but I want pictures! ;-) One of the photos in the Mullenheim-Rechberg book shows the 38cm barrels wrapped in something he calls "red lead" with shiny steel bands holding it on, makes it look like a tank's thermal shielding. He says it was applied when the gray paint blistered from the heat of salvoing and had to be scraped. Can anyone expand on this? Would it only be done in port? Was it just a short term maintenance measure? In other words, would there be a good reason to model it? Also, you referred to the Academy kit as a "cheap copy" - I'm aware of the principle, but am I really giving anything up? I thought I remembered hearing that it's actually the same mold, due to the previous assosiciation of Tamiyagawa/Minicraft. The new Academy aircraft are many based on Hasegawa molds, but I sure wouldn't call them "cheap copies." Thanks for clarifying. Also, a general question, pertaining to Bismarck in this instance, but I'd like to know if there are any companies that produce turned gun barrels - for at least main batteries - for ships as there are for armor? Not a big deal to drill out the muzzles of the plastic ones, but metal sure would look nice and crisp. Thanks again Ken Durling -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: Louis Costanzo Subject: Waveline New Orleans I'm still looking at resin CA's, someone in yesterady's post mentioned the Waveline New Orleans. Is it truely easy (for a resin beginner) to build? Are the Japanese instructions a problem? How much is it? And how does it compare to the Corsair Armada Northampton and Classic Warships San Fransisco? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: Bradford Chaucer Subject: Re: Oregon and 1/350 fittings >> I can't help with Glencoe's response, but I have this kit and can supply the piece needed. I'm about 90% done building one of these for a client and have one that I was going to build for me. I agree, the kit is a dog: terrible fit, extremely heavy moldings, poor detail, etc. I'd rather scratch build than do this kit again. Send me a snail mail address and you can have the part(s) My e-mail is mailto:LubenLarry@aol.com << To anyone doing the Glencoe Oregon, I strongly recommend the Tom's Model works brass PE set. It provides much missing detail and replaces a lot of the clunker detail with very nicely etched brass. Unfortunately can't help the fit problems though :-) >> Does any company produce good quality ship fittings and accessories in 1:350 scale? Looking for P/E doors, hatches, liferings, etc....maybe some white metal boat davits, ready-service lockers, winches. << Look at the PE brass sets from Tom's, Gold Metal etc for a lot of the fittings that you are looking for. Regards, Bradford Chaucer -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: "Robert Lockie" Subject: USS Indianapolis According to Warship Pictorial 1, Indy was refitted in May 1944 at Mare Island, San Francisco, prior to sailing for Saipan. The principal differences from the post refit configuration and that in the Matchbox kit are: * The stern 40mm mounts were twins not quads, in smaller splinter shields with no main deck overhang and the directors in separate tubs forward of each mount. * The platform below the forward tripod director was smaller * Two catapults were still fitted * Camouflage was Ms33/7d * The superstructure aft of the second funnel was different, with a gallery for four single 20mm on the centreline between the aft main and 5" battery directors That should get you started - I would recommend laying hands on the Warship Pictorial, which contains some pretty decent 1/700 plans and colour schemes, as well as plenty of full page photographs. By the way, Matchbox's designer evidently did part of his research from photos of the ship in refit - that odd block on the quarterdeck (or fantail if you prefer) with the 'waffle' design on the top is not part of the ship. It is instead, as far as I can determine, a stack of 40mm ammo cans! Unless you plan to model the ship in port, it should be removed (fortunately the deck is steel and not planked...). It is also worthwhile to replace the splinter shielding and most of the bridge platforms - I used lead sheet and 10thou plastic sheet respectively and the improvement was significant. I had intended to base my 40mm mounts on the Skywave parts but WEM is threatening some resin and brass ones which will doubtless be far superior. Robert Lockie Cambridge UK -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: "John S. Platt" Subject: Re: Research Good evening all From reading the last numerous postings we seem to have a vast collection of books, magazine etc. on all manner of subjects regarding wartime ships. Therefore, I wish to ask for your help. Would you please look in your publications to see if there are any articles on US Navy WW2 Admirable Class minesweepers. (they also served in the Chinese and Mexican Navies) I have the Lenton and Elliott Books but can find nothing else. Documentation on these ships is very sparse and therefore anything will be of use, magazine articles, books, monograms etc anything. I have been amazed over the last year by the amount of obscure information available to us listees, which only goes to show the use and pleasure obtained from this list. Thank you Shane. (I hope its raining there) (Why?... Shane) I look forward to any assistance you can give me. Thanks. John S. Platt. Brasted, Kent, UK Where it has been another glorious sunny day. I am beginning to wonder if I have moved somewhere else and not remembered doing it! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: SeaPhoto@aol.com Subject: Re: SMML across America Hi Everyone, I had a nice visit with John Sheridan and John Frohock on the USS Salem today - I would like to thank them both for their hospitality and time. Had a great time touring what really has to be the ultimate gun-armed cruiser. The interior of number 3 turret has been restored and is in very nice condtion, allowing you to see the auto loaders that made this such a formidable weapon. As John put it, the worlds largest machine gun, pumping out shells every 6 seconds per barrel. Many of the spaces have already been restored, and the folks who run the museum benefited greatly from the good job the Navy did preserving many of them. Of course, there is a lot of work that still needs to be done, most notably a new exterior paint job, but the ship is well worth a visit as is. A lot of compartments are complete even down to personal items, and many of the shops are used to maintain and support the ship today. Be sure to see the nice model displays on board, including a fine 1/96 scale USS St. Paul (CA-73) and a nice diorama of an ATF that was recently featured in FineScale Modeler. There are also displays for some of the other cruisers that served in the US Navy, and a number of great artifacts are on display, including one of the two surrender plaques from the USS Missouri. If you go anywhere near the Boston area, you owe it to yourself to check it out! Tonight I am in Albany, NY, and hope to see the USS Slater tomorrow, a preserved DE. Kurt Albany, where the fantastic spring weather continues! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: "Mike Leonard" Subject: Re: Viking My two pennies: ordered the Viking 1/700 USS Texas about 10 to 12 weeks ago via APC Hobby. Still waiting. I did get their 1/72 SEAL boat from Squadron quite quickly, though, so who knows... Mike L Alexandria, VA USA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: Ed Grune Subject: NOVOGOROD kit quick review I received Modelkrak's 1/700 th scale model of the Russian round battleship, the Novogorod in todays mail. This is a quick review of the kit. This kit is entirely resin. There are no etched metal or white metal parts. The parts breakout is as follows: hull & forward superstructure after deckhouse 2x smokestacks 4x ventilator cowls 2x smokestack/cowl deck 2x 280 mm cannons 2x steam launches 3x ship's boats The ship's hull is cast as a 42mm disc. There is raised surface detail which represents the deck planking, the curved stairs, skylights. and deadlights. The cannon battery positions are recessed. My smokestacks have a few molding flaws which should be easily repairable. Otherwise the parts are acceptable. I'll go into my left-overs of etched railings to detail-out the decks. This will be an interesting oddity among the otherwise sleek lines of the ships in my display case. (Even a Fl****r is sleek compared to this thing!) The instructions are in one sheet, single sided. There is an exploded drawing which indicates the general positions of the parts. There is also a 2-view drawing which is not real clear as it is full size for the model. The top-view drawing is encumbered with lines which represent the deck planking. All of the text is in Polish, which leads to my request for some translation services. I asume that these are the painting instructions. BIALY - nadbudowki, szalupy ZOLTY - kominy bez gomej czesci CZARNY - burty, gorne czesci kominow NATURALNE DREWNO - poklad I apologize that the keyboard and mail system which I am using lack the accent marks of the language One other question, would the Novogorod flown the flag of the Imperial Russian Navy, the white flag with the blue cross? Thanks Ed Mansfield, TX ps -- If you're going to be anywhere in the mid-south region of the US over the weekend of May 29 & 30, head on over to Mesquite, TX. IPMS-North Central Texas will be hosting the Squadron Scalefest convention and model contest at the Mesquite Convention Center. We've outgrown our old place in Plano. This event is co-sponsored by Squadron Mail Order and its not to be missed. We regularly have people in from as far away as Kansas, New Mexico, and Alabama. Not to mention those states which border Texas. If you're in the area, y'all come! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: "Charles Wegman" Subject: IJN Pink Paint? My thanks go out to Kurt who has given us a nice break from the usual Bismarck turret tops discussion. It's nice of him to include all of us in something that I for one would love to be able to have time for. BTW Kurt, since it's business, It's all a tax write-off isn't it. I wanna be a photographer when I grow up! O.K. folks. After re-reading Battle History of the IJN for the 4th time, I was finally struck by a strange passage from professor Dull. Those of you with this excellent textbook please open to page 345. The first paragraph is titled "Last Surface Battle" and describes how the Heavy Cruiser Haguro met its fate at the hands of 5 H.M.S. destroyers. The second to last sentence reads: "Using an often-practiced (but seldom-used) "star" destroyer attack formation, they attacked the Haguro, fought a close-range battle, and sent the pink-painted cruiser down at 0150, 45 miles southwest of Penang." I'm about to start the Hasegawa 1/700 kit and like to model IJN ships right before their demise so this leads me to a couple of questions. 1: Pink-painted? Is this some form of nautical slang that I'm ignorant of or does he mean that the IJN actually applied pink paint to this venerable warship? 2: If it was actually painted pink, then does anybody know what shade? Was it a Mountbatten pink from captured stores or a blend of left-overs like Operation Petticoat (A pink submarine? Must be a Japanese trick! Open fire!)? Any takers on this one? Paint Guys? Parshall? Any smellie? Chuck Wegman Interplanetary Death Squad Supervisor No. 33 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: "Lars Orloff" Subject: Photographing models I've been wanting to begin a photographic record of my models for a while. I have a fancy Nikon camera, an N70, but I am unable to get my 1:48 airplanes completely in focus with my 55mm lens. If I focus on one area of the model, the rest of the frame is out of focus. I understand the physics of what is happening, but I don't know how to get around the problem. I've been to three camera shops, none of whom really know exactly what type of equipment I need to get the job done. It seems as though I've stumbled upon the photographic quandary of the century. Every month I see dozens of pictures in Fine Scale Modeler sent in by people like me (amateurs, I'm guessing), and it doesn't seem like I should have to spend hundreds of dollars for the appropriate photographic gear. It also doesn't seem as though this should be such a difficult predicament. If anyone out there who shoots his or her own models can give me some ideas on cameras or lenses, it would save me a costly trip to the camera store for a lens for which I can't get a refund. Lars R. H. Orloff -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: "James M. Pasquill, II" Subject: Lightship models The only other lightship kit I am aware of is the Nantucket kit made by Lindberg. It has not been produced since the eighties and is hard to find. Kits on Ebay usually go for $50 to $100. Jim -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: "James M. Pasquill, II" Subject: Availability of the Revell tug/Peter Hall's query The Revell tug is out of production but is such an umbiquitous kit that it is easily found. There are usually 2-5 at a time up for auction on Ebay each week. I have purchased 4 of them in the last few months for under $10 with the aim of creating a fleet of them with my five sons. The etchings for the Shell Welder tanker can be used on the tug as is if one is willing to bend one's own wire for the pilot house stair railings. While you are right that producing an etching for an out of production kit is not a good investment, if you have too much time on your hands some day an etching for this kit might pay off. Of course Revell might reissue the kit again. Anyway I will make do with your etchings for the tanker. If you are interested in other ideas, how about an etching set for the new Walthers HO scale tugboat? The lines of the boat are nice but the railings are chunky and the porthole and doors lack detail. The Walthers tug is currently a big seller on this side of the pond. Jim -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: "Jean-Cyrille WAAG" Subject: Flower Class Corvette Hello all, This is my first posting to SMML, and I do appreciate any help. I intend to build a Flower Class Corvette ship and I'm looking for any reference books or magazines you could indicate. Thanks to all answers -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: James Corley Subject: USS Enterprise 20mm guns I have heard, from various sources over the years, that ENTERPRISE had an experiments triple 20mm mount installed about the time of Midway/Summer 42. Does anybody out there know anything about this......be sure to cite complete bibliographies or else somebody might get snippy with you!! ;} JZ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Al Imler (by way of Greg Lee) Subject: Model ship Collection sale Fellow SMMLers, I am selling 22 700th scale injection molded ships. Several have PE sets with them. Value is around $450.00. Asking price is $250.00. I'm not making any money-actually losing my a__! Most are IJN ranging from the Yamato (early issue w/PE) to some Destroyers. One of every IJN heavy cruiser class except the Takao class. The carrier Shokaku (Tamiya w/TMW PE set). Also the Hood and Prince of Wales, both with GMM PE sets. Also the Enterprise, New Jersey, Alabama, North Carolina, Matchbox Indianapolis and Tamiya Fletcher. I am mainly building WWI and WWII German Navy subjects, no time for the rest. For individual prices E-Mail me for more info. Interesting trades would be considered. I would like to sell them as a collection -but I know tastes vary. Regards, Al Imler -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Rob Potts" (by way of Greg Lee) Subject: resin casting Hi, We at Hard Hero Enterprises are looking for experienced and professional resin castors in the Dallas area. Can you help us, maybe a referral? Thanks, Rob -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: James Corley Subject: Nautilus YORKTOWN set & other items C-40 1/480 YORKTOWN 1942 Update set for Revell YORKTOWN kit $30.00 This set will correct the Revell kit into the YORKTOWN as she appeared at Coral Sea. This set was designed to represent her at Midway, but Dr Ballard ruined that by finding new details that had not been documented! The set includes a new resin island and four 1.1” & eight 5”/38 guns. It is designed to fit the GMM photoetch set for this kit. This product will be available at the Blue Angel Modelfest and we will have them for sale at IPMS Orlando. Mail order sales begin 1JUN99. FALL99 C-4H 1/480 YORKTOWN CLASS Hangar deck for Revell kit This set is designed to slip into the hull piece of the Revell kit and replace everything between the hangar and the flight deck. The parts will contain a complete hangar deck interior, corrected exterior bulkheads and roll-up ventilation doors as well as other detail parts. Expected price $50. USN Aircraft These sets are designed to complement the Revell YORKTOWN class carrier kits. Each set will contain 5 planes in flight configuration and 5 with folded wings. (Planes without folding wings will all be in flight configuration, of course). Expected price $6-15, depending on size, number and complexity. FALL99 A-01 1/480 TBD Devastator 10 pcs FALL99 A-02 1/480 F4F Wildcat 10 pcs FALL99 A-03 1/480 SBD Dauntless 10 pcs WINT00 A-04 1/480 B-25C Mitchell 16 pcs WINT00 A-05 1/480 TBF Avenger 10 pcs WINT00 C-41 1/480 HORNET 1942 Update set for Revell YORKTOWN kit This set will represent USS Hornet as she appeared at her sinking. The set includes a new resin island with the round bridge, new gallery catwalks with the 20mm shields and four 1.1” & eight 5”/38 guns. It is designed to fit the GMM photoetch set for this kit. Expected price $30. Once available, any of the YORKTOWN class update sets, the hangar set and the aircraft sets will be available, if ordered as a package, at a 15% discount for the total set. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume