Subject: SMML29/05/99VOL560 Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 00:14:31 +1000 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Future Yamato and Musashi paintings (and the new 1/700 scale Nagato) 2: Norweigan fortifications 3: Re: Electric modelling 4: Warships on the telly 5: Revell USS Montrose 6: Re: PE sails 7: Shore based torpedoes 8: S-boote references 9: Siebel ferries 10: German E-Boats 11: Tumbling turrets 12: Re: Is electrical modeling? 13: Re: Airfix HMS Hood kit 14: USS Slater 15: Re: Is electrical modeling? 16: Re: vote 17: Re: range clocks 18: Re: Is electrical modeling? 19: Armada Models 20: Re: Blucher 21: Info about a book 22: Airbrushing 23: Turrets that dont fall out ! 24: Re: Brit Sub Camo 25: Blucher sunk at Oslo. 26: German E-boats 27: Compressor and Airbrush 28: Re: Shore based torpedoes 29: Re: Tamiya RN MTB/German S-Boats/1:600 Scale Fittings 30: Sinking of the "Blucher" in th Oslofjord. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: WTB: Revell Great Eastern -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Mau Cat Subject: Future Yamato and Musashi paintings (and the new 1/700 scale Nagato) Aoshima's web site in Japan has two interesting paintings showing "future" refits of both Yamato and Musashi. From what I can gather, they are somehow associated with the "Red Hawk" Aoshima comic. The home page for both paintings is: http://www.aoshima-bk.co.jp/siryou/index.htm The Musashi painting (with an nice Ise battleship-carrier refit in the background) is at: http://www.aoshima-bk.co.jp/siryou/musasi.JPG with the Yamato (with some kind of 2-deck Kaga-like?? refit in the background) is at: http://www.aoshima-bk.co.jp/siryou/yamato.JPG Both of the updated superbattleships have "jet" nacelles on port and starboard with vertical fins to the rear of turret #3. Perhaps they can also fly? It's not clear whether these two updated ships can be purchased as Aoshima model kits. On another note... I'm very pleased that Tamiya's reissue of their 1/700 scale Yamato and Musashi kits (soon to be joined by the new Shinano tooling) has apparently inspired Aoshima to update their 1/700 scale Nagato and Musashi kits. Aoshima has a small blurb on their updated kits at: http://www.aoshima-bk.co.jp/whatnew/index.htm Look near the bottom of that page, the kit descriptions (in Japanese only) are second from the bottom. According to the description, the street date for the kits is June at a price of 2400 yen (the same as Tamiya is charging for Yamato and Musashi). This comes out to a shade under $20.00 (USD) at current exchange rates. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "chenyangzhang" Subject: Norweigan fortifications The Norweigans had built forts to defend the entrances to various ports. These consisted of torpedo and gun batteries. Blucher was leading a squadron into Oslo Fjord which was protected by various fortifications. They were able to get past the forts at Rauoy and Bolarne because of hesitancy and a convenient fogbank. However there was a further fort at Oscarborg which was warned of their approach. These fortifications were constructed between 1890 and 1900 and consisted of a series of batteries to protect Oslo from seaward assault. There were 3 batteries Kaholm with 28cm (11 inch) guns, Kopas with 15 cm guns and Drobak with 40mm Bofors. Because of the ease with which the Germans had got past the earlier forts, they were a bit too relaxed. The 28cm battery opened fire at point blank range (500m) on the Blucher which was sailing at 12 knots. Two hits were obtained (from the 2 shells fired) and the Blucher lost control. Further hits from the other batteries totally disabled the steering and Blucher ended up in front of Kaholm's torpedo battery. This consisted of 9 fixed 53.3cm torpedoes. All of these were fired, two failed to function, five sank on route and two hit, one below the second 28cm hit, flooding the engine rooms. The Blucher was, by now, burning uncontrollably and when the 10.5cm magazine blew up the ship was finished. Only 1,000 survived (out of 2,500 on board) and the entire Gestapo contingent perished in the disaster. The Germans retired (Lutzow was hit by 3 15cm shells) and in later assaults lost R17 and the Albatross which had to be beached. Blucher currently lies at the bottom of Oslo Fjord but no attempt has been made to raise or scrap her. Chris Langtree -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "John S. Platt" Subject: Re: Electric modelling Hi SMMLies When building a model I try to make it as accurate as possible. If the subject has exterior/interior lighting or moveable items, etc. which would have been seen when viewing the real ship then I think it IS valid to consider such when judging. However, their will always be those who choose not to include electric's and it would be unfair to mark down because of their choice. Time moves on and so does the modelling world. Perhaps the rules accepted as correct 10 years ago should be changed to accommodate the changing aspirations of the modellers. Perhaps a separate category for those models using lighting etc. By way of example my latest model will have all exterior and interior lighting which was visible from outside the real ship. Additionally, as it was a pirate radio ship (Radio Caroline) it will also have a small transmitter broadcasting on the correct frequency. (don't ask me about which licence I have to permit me to do so!) It's horses for courses, as we say here in the UK. If the modeller has taken the time and effort to include lighting, guns that move etc. they should be given the credit for doing so. Best wishes. John S. Platt. Brasted, Kent, UK. Sunny, hot and I'm going in my swimming pool! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: "Robert Lockie" Subject: Warships on the telly For those able to receive UK television, BBC2 is showing a half-hour programme entitled 'U-boat killers: the anti-submarine warship' on Thursday 3rd June at 2000. It has been on before so here is a second chance if you missed it as I did. Promises interviews with veterans from both sides and no doubt some film footage as well. Robert Lockie Cambridge UK -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: JRuotsala@aol.com Subject: Revell USS Montrose Do you by chance have a Revell kit of the U.S.S. MONTROSE APA 212? I served aboard her for two years and understand a kit is available on this model. Please let me know or if you have a suggestion as to where I can obtain one would be most appreciative. Thanks Jim Ruotsala jruotsala@aol.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: PE sails >> I want to photo-etch thin brass sails for 1:1200 sailing ships, 1588-1860 AD. Is there a book or list or some source of info where I can learn to photo-etch?? << Before I started Flagship I photo etched my own parts at home. The article was published in FSM and the Journal some time back. If you can find that article it explains the whole process. Since you have so many to do I would suggest going to a commercial photo etcher. My photo etcher offers 12"x 24" or 12"x 36" panel sizes. At such a small scale I would bet you could get them all on one or two sheets. Remember you Will be charged anywhere from $175.00 to $250.00 set up and tooling charges for each scale needed. The best and most economical way is to have all the styles of sails you will need on one sheet (one setup charge) then have as many panels as needed produced to get the numbers you need. To help defray the cost of the panels and set up charges find three or four friends who would like the sails and split it. If I can help any further contact me off list and I'll do my best to assist you. Hope this helps. Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. http://www.okclive.com/flagship/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: "foeth" Subject: Shore based torpedoes I think I have some pictures of the tubes in a book somewhere (A little vague). They were just some tubes put on a wooden scaffold (Norwegian owned). They *looked* like a multiple launcher as seen on destroyers, but I don't remember all that clearly. I remember that they didn't look impressive at all, quickly camouflaged with some nets. If you have some patience (2 months) I could look it up (still out of town). The Norwegians had heavy batteries at most cities, but I'm not sure if they were all backed up by torpedoes. I mean, what's the chance some idiot sends a large ship in the Fjords? There are a lot of excelent books on shore defense, but way beyond my budget (ships first). Christian Schmidt carries a lot of these books. I have a small one, showing a lot of heavy equipment, which should be interesting for ship enthousiast (Who can resists 406mm guns? Or a 800mm traingun?). There are also some books who devote a few pages to the Gneisenau's 283 and 150mm turrets. (Three 283 guns were stationed in Holland, but removed later (Dang)) I still have a visit to the Gneisenau's 283 turret in Bergen (Fjell battery) high on my wishlist (museum). EJ Foeth -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: "Robert Lockie" Subject: S-boote references The old Profile book by Hummelchen is worth having, as well as being generally reasonable in price if you can find one second hand. The largest amount of information I have found in one place is Harald Fock's 'Fast Fighting Boats', which has tables of armament fits, dimensions (it seems that there was a vast variation, depending on builder and date), as well as technical development history and a lot of drawings which look to be reproduced from the originals. There was a series of articles in Warship about operations in various theatres as well, but I would have to delve to identify which ones I have. Robert Lockie Cambridge UK -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: "Robert Lockie" Subject: Siebel ferries Someone making these in 1/600 in resin? Please tell us more. I started scratchbuilding one a while ago but the 8.8cm proved a bit fragile and my sources were some rather grotty photocopies so I would be interested in seeing how the resin version looks. Robert Lockie Cambridge UK -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: "foeth" Subject: German E-Boats V.E. Tarrant's "Last year of the Kriegsmarine" deals with the operations of these craft, and the electro subs Type XXI and XXII, plus development of the craft. One think is for sure, you do NOT want to be on those little ships. EJ Foeth -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: "foeth" Subject: Tumbling turrets Although I do study naval architecture, I can only add some extra speculation (warships are not on the exam list, let alone 50-year old ships loosing turrets while sinking, which is clearly an off-design condition). It might be that during the initial rolling over, the friction of the turret on the barbette, while at an angle, is sufficiently large to keep the turret in place. Also, perhaps equipment or construction parts are obstructing the turret from falling out initially. I can't image that this could keep a 2000+ ton contruction part in place, so I guess the turret will fall, breaking those restrictions. At a sufficient depth, when the turret is air filled or air/waterfilled, with pressure near atmospheric, that the waterpressure at higher depths creating a large enough pressure difference to keep the turret tightly in the ship. Leakage trough the gun ports, or damage must fill the turret to a high pressure, even though air could be trapped at the bottom of the turret (now upside down). It might (might) keep the turret in after initial sinking at a medium depth. I see no reason for the turret to remain in the ship if the depth is large, when there is ample time to fill the turret. Perhaps the leakage through the gunports is so great that it fills very fast. The ship is falling at a slow speed, but the pressure due to the downwards motion results in a small force on both ship and turret. I think the turret is heavier per wetted area, but that alone can hardly keep it in, and it will fall faster from the ship. In this case, the turret is already moving, sot that's not keeping it in. If a ship is only upside down for a short time, there might simply not be enough time for the turret to accelerate to such speeds so that it can completely leave the barbette. (Agreeing with Mr Cornelissen). The inertia of the turrets is huge, and the drag of the water will slow it down considerably. I don't know how fast a ship sinks, but I can imagine it is twisting and turning in the water, and only a proper positions might be enough for the turret to overcome both pressure and friction in the barbette. Bismarck evidentally had ample time to shake of the turrets. I see no real reason for a turret to be clamped down. Only if the bow of the ship has a downward acceleration of more than 1 g in heavy seas, the turret will break loose (Doesn't matter if it weighs 3 grams, or 1000000 tons. Just when you are in an elevator: when it goes down with 1g, you start floating). When a ship is slamming, the acceleration will exceed 1g for a short period of time, but that dones't matter for the turrets (But I can imagine the bearings won't like slamming at all). Small ships, like speed boats, can easily get 10g accelerations in the bow, but these guys are just jittering on the surface, not something you expect from a large heavy non-planing battleship. Still they move enough to make everyone seasick. The bow almost always has the worst motion (Best place to be sick is roughly a quarter from the backend of the ship). Still, no real explanation why the turrets sometimes do, and sometimes do not fall of the ship. EJ Foeth -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: Norman Samish Subject: Re: Is electrical modeling? >> There has been quite an increase lately in the number of models wired with lights and moving parts at the Nationals. I have always felt that the electric effects and the techniques used to install them should not be considered when picking the winner unless the installation of electrical violated basic modeling techniques. If they are to be considered, who judges one technique above another? I don't know a wire from a transistor so I consider myself unqualified to decide. Should electric effects and the difficulty of installation be considered where modeling techniques (construction, seams, decals etc.) are the basis we judge? Fortunately, being a ship judge, I haven't had to deal with this yet but still it must be addressed. It isn't covered anywhere that I can find in the Judges handbook (I could be wrong, mine is several years old). Sooner or later this will have to be addressed. I just wanted to know what the list thinks. << As a viewer, not a judge, of models, I think that anything, including lighting, that adds to the viewer's perception of the model as a miniature of the real thing should be rewarded by the judges, and vice versa. Too much lighting would strike me as gimmicky and detract, but authentic lighting carefully done would be a plus. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: John Philip Downing Subject: Re: Airfix HMS Hood kit >> Re the Airfix 1/600 Hood kit, we (Peter H. and myself) have decided that we will not be simply up-scaling the 1/700 Scale Hood photoetched brass detail set for the Tamiya kit. A careful study of this kit reveals that it represents the kit in 1933(ish!). The Tamiya kit is of course 1941, as sunk. Therefore we need more davits, removal of the degaussing cable, and more. However, we think that we will now provide parts to backdate her to 1932, with the catapult, flying-off platform atop 'B' turret, and also provide a set of parts for a Fairey F3-F, which we will probably add to the WEM PRO series. Peter will be starting work on this set very shortly. At his rate of knots it'll be finished inside a week, so look for an end-of June-release for this set. << How about a set of parts to backdate the Tamiya Hood to 1932 (I don't know offhand how much work that is)? I like the look up the inter-war ships. Rate of knots?????? Thanks John Downing Hi John, You might be better off considering the Italeri 1/720 Hood. As this kit depict Hood early on her career. Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: "James M. Pasquill, II" Subject: USS Slater The USS Salter DE has moved back to it's summer birth near downtown Albany, NY and the tour now includes some of the the below deck areas. Check it out if you are in the area. Jim -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: "foeth" Subject: Re: Is electrical modeling? I think that the main focus should be on construction and painting. If the electronics are attached on a model in such a way that you can see wires everywhere, it is easy, but if the craftmanship has been good, it might be different. I, too, know next to nothing about electric circuits, and that's not really what the judging is about. But if there are two equally well build models, and one has lighting and rotating radar (With an accurate base), I'd say the electric model has some qualities over the other.I have seen some models with a rotating propeller on the helicopter, with the driveshaft making big holes in the deck, so the electrics should not make the model worse, should the power fail. The results count, not the "black box" circuits behind it. Also, electrical tricks are more used in big ships. It is just simpler to light your 1/350 CVN 65 Enterprice bridgehouse, than your resin 1/700 Fletcher destroyer. Even with ships of similar size, I would hardly expect a resin model with electrics. And if the ships have lighting, they should have lighting everywere, to keep the model consistent. Not only the bridge. So, I'd say, turn of the power on these models, and see how they stand up to the others. It's not too hard to add some lights to the bridge house, even though the effects can be very nice. I'm not yet willing to spend time on lights, and I'd hate to see my model loose of a christmas tree style battleship with inferior painting. With Science Fiction modeling, it's an integral part, but these models have nothing to offer on historical value, accuracy of the ship, or correct painting. Should the unlighted ship be slightly better than the electrical one, well, that it is up to the judge! (I would go for the paintjob) It's like with a full hull to a waterdiorama dilemma. Perhaps a matter of taste. But painting and construction first. EJ Foeth -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: SantMin@aol.com Subject: Re: vote I vote YEA on the Caroline in a bikini pic. Cheers, Bob Santos -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: SantMin@aol.com Subject: Re: range clocks >> R.A.Burt's "British Battleships 1919-1939" shows QUEEN ELIZABETH in 1922 with two range clocks, one above the other ,which raises the question why the second clock? << The old saying is that a man with one watch knows the time, a man with two watches is never sure............ could that apply to ranges also? Cheers, Bob Santos -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: SantMin@aol.com Subject: Re: Is electrical modeling? >> Fortunately, being a ship judge, I haven't had to deal with this yet but still it must be addressed. It isn't covered anywhere that I can find in the Judges handbook (I could be wrong, mine is several years old). Sooner or later this will have to be addressed. I just wanted to know what the list thinks. << I am an IPMSer too. Maybe there should be a category for "special effects" like in the movies!!!!!! Bob Santos P.S. I have used many "special effects" in competitions (such things as lighting, circuitry for flashing, first surface mirrors, etc.), and won. But these were not IPMS shows, they were figure and diorama shows. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: Bradford Chaucer Subject: Armada Models I'm looking for some help with an Armada HMS Vega kit. Is the company still in business? Their old website at http://www.customdio.com is down. Basically after I finished one of the little main gun assemblies, it went flying and disappeared into the great black hole under my table. I need the 3 pieces of the brass shield, the gun barrel and mount if anyone can help. Regards, Bradford Chaucer -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: "graham peter walker" Subject: Re: Blucher This happened when Germany invaded Norway, I believe it was sunk by a coastal defense battery these were fixed positions, I will try to find the relevant info for you. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 21) From: "graham peter walker" Subject: Info about a book Does anyone have the book. Warships of Imperial Japanese Navy by Jung & Mickel Jentschura, is it any good? is it worth the price? any good plans in it? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 22) From: "Mike Leonard" Subject: Airbrushing Thanks very much to all who provided comments on the Aztek airbrush. In response to a few queries, I am using it with a Sparmax mini-compressor, model TC-501 made in Japan, rated at 1/8 h.p. 4/60 BAR/psi (not sure what BAR means - been a long time since I took physics). (Barometric pressure?: Shane) Retail price was 240 dollars (US) but I got mine at Pearl Paint discount art supply house for 160. It seems to makes about 1/4 of the noise that a standard diaphragm compressor makes, and in the long term will be more reliable and economical than using cans compressed air. Mike L Alexandria, VA USA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 23) From: SteveWiper@aol.com Subject: Turrets that dont fall out ! I hate to add fuel to the fire, buttttttttt, for the sake of those who don't have extensive library's of books and photos, please people, if you are not sure about any of the technical aspects of a certain topic, don't assume. One thing that I have learned in my short time studying ships, is, that no two are the same, even if they may be sisters. If the ships scuttled at Scapa did not have their turrets drop out, there must be a difference, as they were raised upside-down, turrets still not dropping out(all but the Konig Cl. and a couple of light cruisers and destroyers were raised). I have noticed a few pics of the ships being scrapped (upside-down), and the turrets were supported with minimal blocks at that time. I have not had the time to read this book (Jutland to Junkyard), but it may explain something about the turrets. It appears to be a very interesting book. I did not mean to be harsh or sound like a know-it-all, but if we all start to speculate, then we may begin to see multiple green, dapple painted battleships named Indiana ? Steve Wiper/Classic Warships Hi Steve, et al, From my POV, I don't mind people specualating & assuming, provided they say so in their posts. That way, people will know where you're coming from. After all, as you rightly say, not all of us have a big library. We have to go on what we've got & make conclusions from that. Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 24) From: SteveWiper@aol.com Subject: Re: Brit Sub Camo Dearest Caroline, I do believe that subs were camoed with water, under it that is. Ta Ta, Steve -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 25) From: "Douglas Martin" Subject: Blucher sunk at Oslo. Ken: All the information on the Blucher sinking can be found in 'After The Battle', issue 101. I have a copy, minor 'filing' problem - can't find which corner of the room/s I launched it...... Douglas (Scotland) PS: Any current 'radio' interference in Israel just now is likely to be attributed to the Eurovision Song Contest......and Terry Wogan. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 26) From: WVeigele@aol.com Subject: German E-boats Jean-Cyrille, Information on German E-boats, their operations in the Channel Islands, and confrontations with US Navy Patrol Craft is in the book "PC Patrol Craft of World War II." See the review of the book by Rob mackie on the Warship website. The book is available from sources who advertise on the website. Regards, Bill Veigele -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 27) From: RCClem@aol.com Subject: Compressor and Airbrush I also have the Aztek airbrush, and I am slowly gaining experience with it. I use a Badger compressor, their middle of the road model. When I use full air flow, I have found that the pressure dipped so much that it altered the spray pattern before the pressure regulator could adjust. I have tried to connect my compressor up in two different ways. 1. I first piped it through a pressure regulator/moisture separator into a 5 gallon tank. So the tank would be at my selected pressure. Then a small hose up to the airbrush. 2. Next, I tried connecting the compressor at full pressure to the air tank. I mounted the pressure regulator/separator directly on the tank outlet fitting. Then a small hose goes to the airbrush. I found that during Chicago's winter weather, the low relative indoor humidity resulted in very little moisture collecting in the tank in either scheme. I have not owned my equipment during our muggy summer weather yet. I suspect one scheme may be better at handling moisture. I have not figured out which arrangement works best over the broad range of weather and applications. Maybe it depends on the paint, air pressure, paint flow rate and air flow rate. Any opinions? Roger Clemens -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 28) From: Suvoroff@aol.com Subject: Re: Shore based torpedoes >> This is the first I've heard of shore-based tubes. Was it common? Was it a ship weapon installed on land? << I have never been able to find much about shore-based torpedoes, beyond the fact that they exist. However, the British at one time used the Brennan torpedo purely as a shore-based type (again, I do not know how many were in use or what kind of launching apparatus they used). The Brennan torpedo was propelled and guided by two spools of steel wire linked to the propellers, the wire in it's turn being wound in by powerful winches on shore. It carried a 200 pound warhead (powerful for the time) and was capable of 22 knots or a range of 1600 yards. Yours, James D. Gray -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 29) From: Les Brown Subject: Re: Tamiya RN MTB/German S-Boats/1:600 Scale Fittings Re: Tamiya RN MTB I was interested to hear of this model as I am not aware that Tamiya produced one. Are you referring to the 1:72 model of the gas turbine propelled Perkasa? These were based on the RN Brave Class but had many differences - it would take quite a lot of work to produce an accurate model of Brave Borderer and even more for one of Brave Swordsman which had a very different superstructure. Re: German S-Boats The book referred to by M J Whiteley is titled 'German Coastal Forces Of World War Two' (ISBN 1-85409-085-2). Other good sources are the 'Profile' series which includes a colour spread of a craft from the S80 series, and 'Fast Fighting Boats 1870-1945' by Harald Fock. Re: 1:600 Scale Fittings I have many old Airfix kits waiting to be built and many old Airfix Magazines that provide details of improvements and conversions - therefore I'm always interested in any fittings/etched brassworks. It is certainly a great help if the etched brass matches the actual model rather than simply scaling up the 1:700 artwork as there are many differences. Also to include options for the vessels at different times in their lives will provide many other possibilities - particularly as many of the Airfix kits are being re-released. I'm also very interested in any accessories for the Heller 1:400 scale models, again I have a fair number of these to build! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 30) From: arne.rolstad@narvesen.no Subject: Sinking of the "Blucher" in th Oslofjord. The sinking of the "Blucher" marks out the start of WW2 for us Norwegian, the date was Apr. 9th, 1940, the skirmish taking place at approx. 0200 early morning. The German flotilla had sucessfully, with darkened ships, managed to sneak by all the outer defence in the Oslofjord and awaited little or no problems with the old fortress "Oscarsborg" at Drobak, this being out of date, had relatively small & few guns and untrained crew. The fortress' commander, however, was a man of stature, who did not hesitate when his belowed country was invaded by darkened ships. The untrained crew managed to get a good fix at the leading ship, the heavy cruiser "Blucher" and got away a very lucky salvo from guns "Moses" & "Aron". Blucher was at 1200 yards,showing a very low bow profile in the fog. At least one 600pnd shell hit at the base of the foremost control-tower, immediately putting most of "Blucher"'s heavy artillery out of action. The Kopaas land-based underwater torpedo-battery also managed to get avay a lucky hit and "Blucher" drifted slowly past the fortress-island "Oscarsborg", from where the first shots had come, deadly crippled. She finally sank close to shore, taking with her most of her officers & crewmen, as well as most of the paperwork needed for the invasion of Norway. The sinking of "Blucher" is considered to be the event that managed to slow down the German invasion so that the Norwegian government managed to get hold of the situation, rescuing our King and to set up a temporary government in England. The rest is, as the saying goes, history! Regards from Norway arne.rolstad@narvesen.no -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: crofoot@bfm.org (Crofoot, Christopher) Subject: WTB: Revell Great Eastern SMMLies, I'd like to find the Revell kit of the SS Great Eastern. However. I'd like to pay less than $150! Is this kit in production by Revell-Germany or anybody else? I know someone who bought one in Canada so I wondered with this wide ranging forum if anybody out there knew of one at a reasonable price...preferably not on an auction! Thanks. Chris Crofoot Go Army...Beat Navy -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume