Subject: SMML10/06/99VOL572 Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 01:25:36 +1000 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: 1/8" USS WARD 2: Re: Boot Topping 3: H class destroyers 4: Re: Potemkin colors 5: Modeler spouses gripes 6: Re: Feline Menace (episode 1) 7: HMS Barfleur in camouflage 8: Maine???? 9: USS Wharton 10: C.A.T.S. 11: Re: POW & Hood... Thanks 12: Electro Luminescence Sheet "Light Sheet" 13: Re: Bluejacket Ward 14: Re: Viking Texas 15: Re: Peter Hodges Book 16: Yamato gun canvas colors 17: Re: Bluejacket Decatur 18: USS Salisbury Sound 19: LCS(S) Information 20: HR Products -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: New sets from Tom's Modelworks 2: RN Colours 3: International Maritime Modeling June 1999 Update -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: ALROSS2@aol.com Subject: Re: 1/8" USS WARD >> BlueJacket Shipcrafters (PO Box 425 Stockton Springs, Maine 04981 800-448-5567) does indeed ofer a generic "310' Destroyer" kit in 1/96 scale. The one I have (unbuilt) is over 10 years old and I believe the kit has since been reworked by Al Ross. << Nope, didn't have anything to do with that kit. The last person to do any revision to it was Alan Raven. I developed the 80' ELCO PT and GAMBIER BAY kits for them, along with a bunch of kits in their "Harbor and Oceans" line (HO scale). Al Ross -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: John Snyder Subject: Re: Boot Topping The purpose of boot topping, quite simply, is to hide the nasty, scummy oil stains that would accumulate at waterline. Boot topping became a necessity with the onset of the industrial revolution and particularly with the move from coal to oil fuel. All that stuff that floats on top of harbor waters tends to muck up the sides of ships floating therein. Black boot-topping hides that. The boot topping itself has to be deep enough to allow for variations in the ship's displacement from light draught to full load. John Snyder Snyder & Short Enterprises The Paint Guys -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "chenyangzhang" Subject: H class destroyers Hesperus was not an H class destroyer. She was a Brazillian J class (ex Juruena) which was acquired by the UK at the outbreak of war. The others were Harvester (ex Handy, ex Jurua), Havant (ex Javary), Havelock (ex Jutahy), Highlander (ex Jaguaribe) and Hurricane (ex Japarua). They were basically the standard British destroyer design and the survivors were rapidly scrapped after the war. Chris Langtree -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: "Hopocky Gábor" Subject: Re: Potemkin colors Hi Everybody, Thank all of you for your kind help! It will help me a lot doing my work with this kit, which will look much better with this painting scheme than I expected. Regards Gabor Hopocky -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Modeler spouses gripes Over the years it never ceases to amaze me why wives (and husbands I guess) gripe about our hobby. I hear at the local club meetings before we travel to any contest (a one day deal) that the spouses gripe right and left about them taking time for such things. This sounds somewhat selfish when you think it. One reason given by a friend of mine is (he thinks) his spouse resents the fact that he's not paying full attention to her while spending time with others and his hobby. He tried to get her involved in modeling but she just wasn't interested. I know for a fact he doesn't overdo his hobby. The yard's mowed, the house is clean, and the bills are paid. They have an empty extra room in their house yet he must work on his hobby in his garage. Why shouldn't modelers have free time (about an hour or two at night) to pursue a very inexpensive and relaxing hobby? My wife couldn't care less. As a matter of fact, she's happy that I socialize with friends. Before I started modeling I socialized with no one. Since I work from my home, I see almost no one during the day since I communicate by phone with clients. My wife caught my attention while talking to a group of griping wives at the annual Christmas party. She told them she fully supports my being involved in modeling as a hobby (maybe not so much as a business) and IPMS club. Once I heard this, I really had my ear bent to hear the conversation. She gave several very supportive reasons why she supports my being a modeler. Remember, this is coming from a modelers wife. 1) It's a very inexpensive hobby when compared to others. 2) This hobby keeps us at home. At least they know where we are. 3) We (our husbands) could be doing much worse, bar hopping, gambling, etc., 4) Modeling is mostly quiet and doesn't disturb anyone (except for occasional paint fumes). 5) Most importantly, it's a hobby that the youngest of kids can actively participate in. I must say the fun my son (my daughter just wasn't interested. She went into volleyball) and I have shared over the years at the work bench and club meetings are what childhood memories should be made of. I believe this is one reason he has NEVER been in trouble, in or out of school in his 21 years. I know this is a bit off the subject matter of this list, but I just wanted to thank my wife for her understanding. For those of you who are fighting the battle, read these reasons to your spouse and listen for their retort. It should be interesting and I would like to hear some of them off list if you wish. Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. http://www.okclive.com/flagship/ Hi gang, Replies are welcome on list as well, if you wish. Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: Feline Menace (episode 1) I sympathize with those who have lost models to The Feline Menace (episode 1). After my cat had a strenuous round of paw slapping with my 1/700 Perry class mast structure I started putting plastic covers on all my models. They take from 2 to 3 hours to make and can be built by anyone. I build all my covers myself and they look almost as good as the pros. Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. http://www.okclive.com/flagship/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: Kim Tomlinson Subject: HMS Barfleur in camouflage I am building a model of HMS Barfleur and I wish to give her the Special Home Fleet Destroyer, camouflage. The only source I have for the colours is the Peter Hodges book which gives the colours as White, G20, B30 and G45. The problem is that most people say Peter Hodges information is unreliable, so can anyone confirm the information as correct? let me know where I can find the correct info? or just tell me the correct colours to use? Thank you for any help you can give. Kim. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: Mark McKellar Subject: Maine???? I have this vague recollection of some discusson of a marine museum in Maine on the list some time back.... Now, I find myself sentenced to a weekend in Portland while my teenager & his band records at a local studio there. Anyone suggest what where etc...... Thanks Mark (Boston area - where it was 97 out yesterday and 57 today......) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: JJOCOMM@aol.com Subject: USS Wharton My first ship in WWII was the USS WHARTON, converted to a troop transport. She had been the SOUTHERN CROSS, on which Eugene O'Neill had presumeably sailed in his early years. Any ideas as to how I could get specs/information about this ship? Would like to model it. James W. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: Jeff Herne Subject: C.A.T.S. The US Navy did a feasibility study to determine the survivability of C.A.T.S. fired from 5", 6" and 8" guns, respectively. I believe this test was proposed by Dr. Gerald Pult of Gibbs & Cox, whose models have victims of numerous feline covert attacks over the years. It is my understanding that once the cat reached it's terminal velocity, it rapidly came apart in flight. This issue was resolved by reducing the powder charges accordingly. There were also trajectory studies to verify the abililty of the cats to land on their paws. These tests proved inconclusive, due primarily to the rapid deceleration that occurred once the C.A.T.S. hit the target. As a result of these studies, it was determined that to achieve maximum efficiency, C.A.T.S. should be relegated to air drops on targets by horizonatal aircraft. These tests were conducted with great success. Later on, Dr. Pult went to achieve greater fame as a result of his work...the Cat-a-pult. (GROANNNN: From the Jenkins's) I need to switch to decaf... (Yup & get out more: Shane) Jeff -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: "Chris Hughes" Subject: Re: POW & Hood... Thanks Many thanks to all the SMMLies who responded to my question. I think that the safest option is separate bases... (wimp, wimp...) Cheers, Chris -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: Lisa and Bill Wiseman Subject: Electro Luminescence Sheet "Light Sheet" I've used EL sheets from Light Sheet to light sci -fi models. The sheets are easy to work with and are only about 0.025" thick. The trick is hiding the driver modules they are small cubes about 0.75 in by 0.5 in by 0.75 in.. The product from Light sheet comes in two colors: a white which glows like flourescent tubes and a blue which should be familiar to anyone who has seen a Star Treck film in the last few years. They will custom cut a sheet for you ( for a fee) or you can buy precut sheets. The other thing about this stuff is you can cut it (within reason) to fit specific shapes. The sheet has self healing edges and as long as you don't cut the power supply end it will still glow. The white would glow enough to supply back lighting inside the Hangar deck of the Big E but it may not be enough light to give the individual light effects you may want. There is a new company called Miller Engineering in New Canaan, CT USA who has introduced a similar product with six colored overlays. Find them at: http://www.microstru.com. When using the sheet be sure not to touch the edges while it's powered (quite the shock I got). The drivers work like Flouresscent light ballasts and put out about 400 volts. Hope this helps Doc Wiseman -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: "Mike Leonard" Subject: Re: Bluejacket Ward I don't have this kit (yet) but saw one that a friend of mine bought about 10 years ago. At that time he had commissioned me to restore a five-foot long remote control model of a four-stacker that was built about 1930. Anyway, the Bluejacket kit has been around for a number of years, but the size is such that it would really benefit from today's photoetched brass and various aftermarket accessories, and should build up into a beautiful model. The instructions are said to have been written by Alan Raven, no stranger to this group. The address for Bluejacket is: Bluejacket Ship Crafters P.O. Box 425 Stockton Springs, Maine 04981-0425 USA Tel. 1-800-448-5567 Retail price is +ACQ-252 Mike Alexandria, VA USA (Where it's topped 100 degrees F, not a breath of a breeze, and were in the midst of a drought.) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: "Mike Leonard" Subject: Re: Viking Texas I also just got the 1/700 Texas and would concur with Marc Flake on all counts. He stated: >> About the aircraft -- doesn't look like anything carried by US Navy. About the photoetching -- superb. << Yes, the plane resembles a Stuka or something. The brass is excellent. Many of the resin parts, such as the 20mm and 40mm guns, appear to have been based on early Skywave parts and leave a lot to be desired. After several applications of Squadron Green Putty the hull is almost acceptable. Mike Alexandria, VA USA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: Clifford Franklin Subject: Re: Peter Hodges Book >> General question: Just how accurate is Peter Hodge's book now. I have access to a copy(since I can't find one of my own) & would like to use it in the future. << I thought I would add a few comments on this book, having used it since shortly after it was published. It is quite useful in many respects, but does not tell the full story. It is obvious that Peter Hodges based his writing on the official manuals of 1943 and 1945, from which many of the camouflage drawings were taken from. Anything earlier than 1943 is only hinted at, or inferred from the later works. This means that all the interesting early camouflage schemes and colours are not mentioned, or treated only superficially. The information given for this period should be treated with caution. The drawings given for most of the battleships down to cruisers are somewhat suspect and simplified, and should be checked against photos before they are used. The other important item to note is that these were the official orders. Thus the camouflage patterns shown were the ones promulgated by the Admiralty, not necessarily the ones used by the ships. Many were changed, or different colours used, or not used at all. A good example is the scheme shown for Exeter. This was drawn up by the Admiralty for the ships use, but I have seen no evidence that it was actually applied. Similarly, for the scheme for Ariadne. This is the official scheme as drawn. When it actually went on the ship some of the patterns were changed. However, the later patterns shown for the destroyers and escort classes seem to be generally accurate, but again, the designs or colours could be altered or varied between individual ships. If these ideas are kept in mind, however, the information given in the book can be used, and it gives a good insight into what the Admiralty wanted as camouflage on its ships during the latter half of the war, even if this didn't always relate to what was actually applied! Cliff Franklin -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: "John Noory" Subject: Yamato gun canvas colors I've started Tamiya's new 1/700 Yamato and would like to know what color the canvas bags around the 18" guns should be. I've read that they were brown in wartime, but every picture and color drawing I've seen shows them to be white. What color should they be for a 1945 Yamato? Thanks, John Noory -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: "Duane W. Christensen" Subject: Re: Bluejacket Decatur >> Does anyone have or know anyone who has the model kit of the U.S. Navy destroyer Decatur (DD 5) produced by Bluejacket shipcrafters in in the 1970's. << I purchased an old set of Bluejacket plans that were labled USS Decatur. No hull # was given and the dimensions and appearence were wrong. After comparing it to my DD info, it appears to be a "1000 tonner" of the Tucker (DD57) or Sampson (DD63) class. There are no weapons shown other than the shield for the foreward 4" gun, but there are a usable set of hull lines, profile and deck plan. You would need some good photos etc. to finish one of these. The plans are in 1/8" scale(1/96) and the only source data is:" Copyright 1922 by Boucher." I am trying to find enough info to do the Jacob Jones in WWI. Duane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: Amham@aol.com Subject: USS Salisbury Sound Does any body know where I can get a model kit of the USS Salisbury Sound it is a seaplane tender her sister ship was the USS Pine Island I served aboard the Sally in Vietnam and would very much like to find a kit for her if any body could find out please let me know Thanks so much Amham -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: Ed Grune Subject: LCS(S) Information Hello to the SMMLies: I've been gathering more information on the USS Oberon. I've gotten a few additional photos and some plans-of-the-day from one of her former crewmen. Yes, I'm doing r******h. One of the Plans-of-the-Day for the Salerno Invasion identifies the LCS(S) boats which were to provide flank protection for the assault waves. One of the photos is annotated, pointing out the "rocket boats", which do not appear to have the ramp associated with the LCVPs. I've determined that LCS(S) stands for Landing Craft, Support (Small). Does anybody out there have any information, photos, or plans on LCS(S) boats? On a related subject: I've stumbled onto an interesting site. The (USA) National D-Day Museum in Louisiana is working with Higgins Industries in making a full-scale working LCVP. Check their site at: http://www.higginsboat.org/ Ed -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: Minadmiral@aol.com Subject: HR Products OK guys; Got an address for HR Products, please? Chuck Duggie -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) To: "SMML" Subject: New sets from Tom's Modelworks New sets from Tom's Modelworks where our priority is high quality and low price. By the end of the month I will be shipping our newest etched brass detailing set. Set 240-1 is for the re-issued Revell USS Olympia which is due to the distributors by the end of the month. Set No. 240-1 has over 120 individual parts and will sell for $17.00 Any orders from SMML members (mention this when ordering) can purchase this set prior to July 1st for $15.00 and receive free shipping within the US. Add $3.00 for orders outside the US. The second set is 3516 which will sell for $7.00. This set has 40MM gun mount rails and shields. This set can be used on pair and quad mounts from Destroyers to Battleships. Watch for SMML announcements on the release of sets for the King George V / Prince of Wales, Bismarck / Tirpitz, Yamato / Musashi sets in all associated scales over the next month. Check out our complete line of etched brass sets on our web site: http://www.tomsmodelworks.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: John Snyder Subject: RN Colours RN Set 1 (yep, we're doing 2 sets since there will be enough colours to make a single set too unwieldy to produce) will contain the following 22 colours: 507A 507B 507C B-5 B-6 Western Approaches Blue Western Approaches Green Mountbatten Pink Light Mountbatten Pink Dark MS-1 MS-2 MS-3 MS-4 MS-4A Dark Brown Light Green Berwick Blue Dark Blue Pink PB-10 Corticene Semtex (early war) More later regarding RN Set 2. John Snyder Snyder & Short Enterprises The Paint Guys -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: Felix Bustelo Subject: International Maritime Modeling June 1999 Update I am please to announce that the June 1999 update to International Maritime Modeling is up. Besides the usual reviews and additions to the Gallery, there is a lot of news and product announcements this month. So check it out. The June 1999 update to the site includes: Photos of Les Pickstock's 1/600 HMS Amazon Type 21 Frigate and Chris Crofoot's 1/400 Czarist Battleship Potemkin in the Photo Gallery. Quick Kit Reviews of Airfix 1/600 Ark Royal, PT Dockyard's 1/600 Spica Class destroyer escort and CH 14 Free French Subschaser. Reviews of Gold Medal Models 1/400 Naval Ship photoetch set and Tom's Modelworks 1/600 20mm Guns and Shields and 1/250 HMS Bligh/USS Buckley detail set, and White Ensign Models 1/600 Royal Navy Doors and Hatches in Photoetch Reviews. Book Reviews of the Monographie Morskie volume on the Admiral Graf Spee and Admiral Scheer and the Okrety Swiata volume on British County Class Cruisers. Update of the Kit List page to include new items from PT Dockyard 1/600 Resin Miniatures. A daily update on the voting for the subject of the Atlantic Models 1/600 resin kit. Updates to the Links page. So please stop by for a visit and remember contributions like photos for the gallery, kit, photoetch and book reviews and build and maritime history articles are always welcome. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume