Subject: SMML18/06/99VOL580 Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 23:35:54 +1000 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Travel 2: Re: Dremel saws 3: Re: Updated Ship Seminars for the IPMS(US) Nats 4: Thanks for info. 5: Re: Angled Deck Essex 6: Graf Spee Photos 7: Re: Angled Deck Yorktown 8: Re: RMS Olympic 9: Re: Uss Galveston 10: Re: 200th scale Seydlitz 11: Viking ASPB 12: Re: Galveston 13: Mediterranean theatre 14: Re: Arado Decals 15: Re: USS Enterprise CV-6 16: Re: Jason'e Argo 17: Graf Spee 18: Re: Graf Spee camo followup 19: Flotilla 'X' 20: Re: HMS Victory 21: Thanks -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Millen, Alan R." Subject: Travel Hi gang! I will be traveling from Philadelphia to New Bern, NC, thence to Hilton Head, SC, from there to Atlanta, GA, and back home to Philly in the second week of July. Besides the USS North Carolina and the CSS Neuse, are there any sights to see close to these destinations? Alan R. Millen -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: Dremel saws >> Micro-Mark sells several blades for the Dremel saw (page 7 of current catalog). Blades are also available from industrial supply companies and machinist's supply companies. They sell Jeweler's Metal-Slotting blades and screw slotting blades that fit this saw (and others) and work just fine. << I'll get a new Micro Mark catalogue and look them up. The other bugaboo I mentioned was getting new belts for the saw. It requires a belt less than 1/4" wide with a rubber backing to grip the wheel. Does anyone produce these belts? Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. http://warship.simplenet.com/Flagship.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: Updated Ship Seminars for the IPMS(US) Nats I was just sent an updated seminar list for the IPMS(US) Nationals. I don't know if the web page has been updated yet. If not, I can send you one. Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. http://www.okclive.com/flagship/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Thanks for info. I want to thank everyone who sent me info on the Galveston. I have said in the past I don't have a huge reference library but with all the info I have received I now know where to look specifically. Now I just need to get Freidmans cruiser book. Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. http://www.okclive.com/flagship/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: Angled Deck Essex Sorry, the only angled deck Essex in 1/350 scale was produced for a short time by Jim Shirley Productions. The company is no longer in business. If you're lucky, you may find one at the swap meets. Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. http://www.okclive.com/flagship/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: GrafSpee34@aol.com Subject: Graf Spee Photos Further to the discussion of the date when Spee's dummy camo was removed: Korv-Kpt. Rasenack's personal diary of the Spee operation states that on 28 November 1939, Kommandant Langsdorff sent his 1st Artillery Officer out in a cutter to observe the new camoflage and altered silhouette created by the dummy turret and funnel. Rasenack accompanied the 1AO and took a series of photographs. While there were certainly photos taken from the Altmark, Rasenack's 28 November photos are the only published photos of the Graf Spee with the dummy turret and funnel that I am presently aware of. I need to have a look at the cited English books to be certain, but I suspect that the photos of the Spee with the dummy turret are again Rasenack's, and not from an Altmark photographer on a later date. Incidentally, Rasenack's diary was published and is available in Germany as a paperback. He is still alive and well and lives in South America. Cheers, David Krakow -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: Joe Costanzo Subject: Re: Angled Deck Yorktown There is no Yorktown of that configuration that I know of, but Jim Shirley Productions made a USS Orinsky, which is I believe the only angled-deck Essex available in any scale. It is 1:700 and resin, but I am not sure if it is available anymore, I think the operation folded up recently. It can't hurt to look around, though -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: "Douglas K. Howard" Subject: Re: RMS Olympic RMS Olympicin WW2 warpaint, per today's SMML. That will be an interesting feat, as the Olympic was scrapped circa 1936! If I seem a bit touchy, my grandfather sailed on Olympic during WW ONE. Doug Howard Brookings, Oregon, USA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: "Les Dorr Jr." (by way of Greg Lee) Subject: Re: Uss Galveston Rusty: Here's what Rajendra's list has to say about the Renwal Galveston: " If you're trying to make a decent Galveston, you've got your work cut out for you. The two Terrier launchers should be replaced by a single Talos, (stolen from a Monogram Chicago/Columbus) the missile directors are completely missing, (again, steal from the Chicago/Columbus) the reload structure for the Talos launcher must be built from scratch. The 5" gun barrels are too long. (They make good 5"/54 mk 41s for Montan class BBs, though) The molded-into-the-deck solid plastic railing doesn't help at all The hull is pretty bad below the waterline, but the plastic is thick enough to allow you to make some adjustments. And then, there's radars....." Good luck! Les "Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups." -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: Al Imler Subject: Re: 200th scale Seydlitz Classic Warships used to produce a 200th scale SMS Seydlitz. I was lucky enough to purchase one from Pacific Front Hobbies. It consists of a fiberglass full hull and 1 piece fiberglass deck. Turrets, gun barrels, superstructures and funnels are cast in resin. Secondary guns and other small fittings have to be scratch-built. It is a true craftsman kit. Plastic Ship Modeler had an article on a built up in the 1996/2 issue(I think that's the correct one). I just wanted to get some information out on it, I'm not interested in selling it. Best Regards to All, Al Imler -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: "Mike Leonard" Subject: Viking ASPB The third release in the Vietnam 'Brown Water Navy' series by Viking Models is a 1/72 scale Assault Support Patrol Boat (ASPB), cast as a full hull resin kit with three resin machine gun turrets and resin canopy. It also comes with brass wire for making the awning supports and about 30 white metal parts (guns, bitts, anchor, etc.). Overall quality is excellent but the parts placement instructions leave a great deal to be desired: a page of grainy black and white photos of the model with no hint as to what goes where. A color photo on the box cover is somewhat more helpful, but Viking really needs to address the poor assembly guides in these kits. The other models in this series are a River Patrol Boat (PBR) Mark 2 and a Light SEAL Support Craft (LSSC). Can a PCF "Swift Boat" be far behind? Mike L Alexandria, VA USA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: "Mike Leonard" Subject: Re: Galveston Rusty wrote: >> I just acquired a model of the Renwal USS Galveston kit at a club auction and I have some questions about the kit that I hope someone can answer. 1) What class of ship is this? << The CLGs were converted from Cleveland class light cruisers in the late 1950s. I believe 4 of the 6 were flagship-configured: fewer guns to make room for more staff/command and control facilities. Only 1 of 2 forward main batteries were retained as a result. >> 2) Are there plans available for this class of ship. This is a 1/500 scale kit that features Terrier missiles. An interesting looking ship. << Floating Drydock lists plans for Little Rock and Springfield, but the big problem with the Renwal kit (later reissued by Revell as USS Springfield) is that it would be easier to build it as a WW2 Cleveland than as a CLG. What Renwal did was take a light cruiser and replace the aft 6-inch turret with a pair of Terrier launchers and say "Voila, a guided missile cruiser!" Unfortunately it would take a great deal of scratchbuilding to make it look like a CLG: new superstructure, boat stowage, missile directors, etc. Incidentally, the CLGs only had a single Terrier launcher. Hope to see a decent resin CLG in 1/700 some day. I believe Pacific Front Hobbies said there is one on its way from a new company. Mike Alexandria, VA USA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: "Jean-Cyrille WAAG" Subject: Mediterranean theatre Hello all, I'm searching references and camo patterns about the use of Flower Class corvettes and E-boats in the Mediterranean theatre especially during the Greece and Crete evacuation. Thanks to all for your previous help. Jean-Cyrille -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: "mkrumrey" Subject: Re: Arado Decals In response to decals for the Bismarck Arado. I used the kill markings off of a Microscale 1/32nd P-51 sheet. It had Swastikas and Iron Crosses and worked very well for the float planes in 1/350 scale. Mark Krumrey New Richmond WI -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: Dave Judy Subject: Re: USS Enterprise CV-6 Mike, global outlet.com discounts this kit from $950 to $615 Dave Judy -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: Bradford Chaucer Subject: Re: Jason'e Argo >> RE Kurt's question about the Argo-- the best model of her was probably from the old movie, Jason and the Argonauts, by George Pal, Wm. Scheer and Ray Harryhausen. There are probably some fanciful elements to the ship in the movie, but after all it IS mythology. Harryhausen was a stickler for historical accuracy so if there were any elements to the design based on the supposed time period of the voyage, his people would have researched and found it. This would be a very interesting project, indeed. << Amati has a Greek Bireme circa 480 BC kit. Wouldn't that be a good place to start?? Regards, Bradford Chaucer -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: Lamar Jones Subject: Graf Spee Dudley Pope's BATTLE OF THE RIVER PLATE says, pages 63-64, "Langsdorff told Captail Dove," who was recently captured from the sinking of the Africa Shell, that "he wanted to make the Graf Spee look like a British battleship. Describing what he saw, Captain Dove reported later to the British authorities: 'He rigged up a dummy funnel just aft of his forward turret, even painting a black stripe along the top. He also rigged a dummy turret forward, and the Captail and officers went off in a launch four miles away to see the effect. He came back and said he was very pleased with the work. He said,' "We shall now look like the Repulse as shown in Jane's Fighting Ships." 'He told me it was for the benefit of neutral [steamers] because when he went back to Germany, if he was sighted by a neutral ship and they were asked by a British ship if they had seen the Graf Spee, the neutrals would say that they had seen a ship with two funnels and a double turret forward, and then the British ship would think it was the Repulse. He put Deutschland on the stern of the ship [Graf Spee], painting in letters of gold on tin plate in German script. He said this was also for the benefit of the neutrals. On the other side of the plate was Von Scheer. . .'" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: dhjonespsm@juno.com Subject: Re: Graf Spee camo followup David Krakow writes: >> The Graf Spee's log entry of 3 December 1939 indicates that the dummy turret and funnel were removed on that day. This was not done in order to clear the ship for battle. Rather, the log explains that it was Kommandant Langsdorf's intent to spread confusion as to the number of KM battleships that were operating in the South West Atlantic. << Proof positive I should think. - I will certainly defer to David on the date. Obviously the published sources could not all be right as none of them agreed, but I can only wonder in cases like this where the authors came up with the detailed versions that they present? Since none of the three published accounts that I checked agree on the date, it cannot be simply a matter of copying from the first one published. Did they just fill in the details from imagination? Makes one wonder.... Obviously in light of the log entry, another statement in one of the published sources is probably in error, stating that the photo of Graf Spee with disguise in place would have been on December 5. Probably it was taken at a previous meeting with Altmark. At least all the authors did get it right about the disguise being removed before the battle. BTW - is there any possibility that the photos taken by a crewman of all of the Graf Spee's victims (mentioned in a previous thread) will ever be published. I would be very interested in seeing this happen. I have never been able to find a photo of the Africa Shell..... Daniel Jones -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: Vimieraa@aol.com Subject: Flotilla 'X' In 1941 several destroyers serving in the med carried two narrow black funnel bands. I have been unable to ascertain what flotilla this donates. Can anybody help? Ships known to have these bands included NUBIAN, KINGSTON,KIMBERLY, KANDAHAR, JAGUAR and JANUS. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: Les Brown Subject: Re: HMS Victory I seem to recall that recently there was a request for the Airfix Classic Ships book for HMS Victory. I have now found my copy, so if it is still needed, please contact me. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 21) From: "Philip Morgan" Subject: Thanks Thank you to all who responded to my requests. Unfortunately I forgot to mention two important things: One, I live in Australia (for the benefit of overseas readers) Two, the comparison between Lee and Academy kits referred to the 1/350 Titanic which I believe Lee labelled 1/370. Whatever, the two appear to be identical. Anyway, I purchased an FFG, it really is a good kit except there are no painting instructions (but you can refer to APMA magazine for these anyway - am I allowed to plug APMA on this site?????????????) or decals (from what I've seen in other Lee kits, this is probably a blessing anyway!). Mouldings are very similar to Dragon quality, crisp and clear and at 1/300 it is about the same size as a 1/350 Ticonderoga. WHY CAN'T THE CHINESE JUST STICK TO A COMMONLY USED SCALE?????????????? The kit of the Adelaide appears to have the correct antennae etc for an Aussie FFG but I don't know what would be involved to convert it for an American version. Anyway, thanks again for the responses, I'm now off to see if I can get a second mortgage so I can buy an Empress......;) Kind regards, Philip Morgan. Hi Philip, Well...., I suppose you can plug APMA here. There's Someone else, who does so on a regular basis, but his name escapes me at the moment :-)). BTW, I concur with Philip on those issues, they're very well done by Lindsay Charman & include RAN Paint chips taken from HMAS Canberra IIRC. Shane - who's never been known to plug that club -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume