Subject: SMML11/07/99VOL603 Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 00:30:27 +1000 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: Scale Ships 2: Flagons 3: Cossack again 4: Modeling in MPLS 5: HMS Amazon and Ambuscade 6: Blue Riband 7: Canberra and Oriana Colours 8: Submarines - help in identifying models 9: Prinz Eugen 10: H.M.S. Bulldog -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: Re: HMS ARIADNE 2: Warship Update -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: SeaPhoto@aol.com Subject: Re: Scale Ships >> Has anyone heard of a company called Scale Ships of Marina del Rey, California? Do they have a web page or e-mail address? What products do they sell? John Frohock USNSM << Hi John, ScaleShips PO Box 12131 Marina Del Rey, CA 90295 The company was/is owned the by fellow who owned Harbor Models for a while, Armand Veronico. I know he has sold Harbor Models, but may retain interest in Scale Ships. You might also want to try: http://www.harbormodels.com The two products I know they made is a 1/48 scale T-ATF (Modern US Fleet Tug), about 4 feet long, and a 1/48 scale Ticonderoga semi kit (about 12 feet long). I believe that the Fleet tug is still available, but have my doubts about the Tico, as it did not prove popular. Kurt Greiner SeaPhoto Marine Photography http://www.modelersboatyard.com/seaphoto -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: John Snyder Subject: Flagons As long as it's the brew that is true, and not the potion with the poison.... John Snyder -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: jmaine@golden.net Subject: Cossack again Many thanks to those who kindly replied to my query about HMS Cossack's paint scheme at the time of the Altmark incident. And my apologies for getting Cossack mixed up with her sister Eskimo at the second battle of Narvik. Actually I find it interesting to note that that the captain of the destroyer "Georg Thiele" (Z 2) which torpedoed Eskimo made the same mistake. In his action report Lt. Cmdr. Max-Eckart Wolff noted that his ship's very last torpedo, personally aimed and fired by the Torpedo Officer, one Lt. Sommer, "struck a destroyer of the 'Afridi' class level with the bridge, severing the forward part of the ship. The crew were taken aboard by another destroyer. The after part of the ship, which was towed away, is said later to have sunk. It is believed that the destroyer was the Cossack." In fact, of course, it was the Eskimo and she had not been lost as the German captain had supposed. The same could not be said for his own ship which, after being run aground in a storm of shellfire, ended up a blazing wreck on the rocks of Rombaksfjord. One other question, though: anybody know how close the Cossack actually got to the Altmark in Jossingfjord? She must have been fairly close to send over a boarding party while covering the German ship with her searchlight. I should say that I'm modelling these ships in 1/1200 scale so I'm hopeful that I could get both on one board without them being too very far apart! (I should have mentioned the scale up front but nevertheless I'd like to thank Caroline for her generous offer - I'm sure there's others on this list who would be interested in acquiring a Tribal in 1/700 scale.) Thanks again everybody. John Maine Kitchener, Ontario -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: "Doremus, Mark" Subject: Modeling in MPLS Peter, I live in the southwest part of the Minneapolis - St. Paul area, Eden Prairie. Around here the modeling resources are a mite slim. Battlefield Book Store, at Minnetonka Blvd. and France Ave. in St. Louis Park does have a large selection of new and used books on military subjects including ships. Expect to pay retail or higher on most titles. Hub Hobby Center and Hobby Depot are near Minneapolis - St. Paul airport in Richfield. They carry a large selection of all types of hobby stuff (scale models, trains, RC etc.). There are several other shops but they are bit aways from me and I haven't checked them out yet. I don't know much about the east side, St. Paul, Roseville, etc. There is a phone listing for a Hobbymart in Roseville, but it may be an RC only shop. There are several SMMLies in the MSP area who may have more information. Unfortunately, you just missed the July meeting of the TCAH (on Saturday). Enjoy your stay, it will probably be hotter and more humid than usual. Mark Doremus -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: Brian Selzler Subject: HMS Amazon and Ambuscade Thanks Rick Heinbaugh, for the foc'sle length on Ambuscade. My hats off to you! SMML is great, ask any obscure question and someone comes through for you. I'm still wondering, though, if Amazon might be just a little bit different as I think that each company built what it thought would conform to broad Admiralty specs. From the pictures I've seen, it would appear that the sterns are quite different. Amazon has a fairly straight one but, Ambuscade looks like hers has much tumblehome. As for the jutting compartment you mentioned on Intrepid, it also shows on Paul Kemps drawing of HMCS Assiniboine which was the former C class flottila leader Kempenfelt. I think it's probably the galley because it has a vent coming out of it and running up the fore funnel, so you can include the C's You have a list of things to do with a Hotspur! Well I have things to do with an O class Tamiya and one of them was the aforementioned Assiniboine. I figured if the O evolved from the A end of the alphabet why not try some reverse evolution. The Tamiya hull is beefy enough to withstand some pretty radical reshaping of the bow. Mind you, I had an awful lot of O parts left over, I guess I could scratchbuild a hull to use'em on. Brian, just up the road from Seattle in Kamloops -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: "Philip Morgan" Subject: Blue Riband With all the interesting discussion on this subject lately, I just couldn't resist asking the question: wasn't it an Aussie built high-speed catamaran that recently snatched the thing? Regards, Philip Morgan - a very proud seventh generation Aussie!!!!!!!! Actually, my ancestors came to this land on the First Fleet, perhaps that explains my interest in ships - it's in the blood!!! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: "Philip Morgan" Subject: Canberra and Oriana Colours Can anyone tell me if the P&O Liner Canberra ever wore the straw and white colours as seen on the Oriana in her early years? (I don't think it did as I believe that scheme was for the Orient line pre-merger and the Canberra was commissioned after the merger?????) And what has happened to her since her retirement? I can't make up my mind which scheme to paint my Revell Oriana in so I have decided to do one of each. Can anyone please suggest where I might be able to score another kit, Revell kit Number 5202 dated 1980. One final request (gee, Shane, I'm certainly getting good value from this site, It's tops!!!!!!): I have fond memories of the old Orient liner Orcades (the second one), my parents went for a south Pacific cruise on it in the 1960s from Sydney. I would love to have a model of it, has any been released? Thanks again, Philip Morgan -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: "Philip Morgan" Subject: Submarines - help in identifying models Hi gang and thanks for the feedback on why subs propellers are shrouded. In case some of you missed the point, my comment that some in the RAN want to resurrect the Oberons etc was firmly tongue-in-cheek. I have read the complete report on the Collins, it makes fascinating reading - especially the discussion on the propellers! Maybe it would be fair to say that, given the scope and magnitude - not to mention complexity - of the project, add to that a constantly changing strategic environment in our region, and there were bound to be a few problems. I remember as a child hearing about the F111 saga. Actually, the RAAF were seriously looking at the TSR2, decided on the Vigilante and ended up with the F111 - one of the most competent military aircraft today. I do believe that, when the Collins' problems are sorted out, they will be amongst the most potent conventional submarines in the world. Having worked as a civvy in Dod/DFAT, I know that the Americans have, from time to time, offered the Australian Government surplus US military equipment. I must confess that the LA class story sounded a bit far-fetched, it does pay to research properly first rather than engaging in trivial or misleading discussion. I now ask for help in identifying a submarine model I was given some years ago. On first appearance, it looks like a Polaris-type. It is cut away on one side, has very good interior detail and has some of the SLBM tubes exposed. As the model was given to me in a completed state, I have been unable to identify it. It may be of Revell origin. I don't know what scale it is. Can anyone help ?(dumb question - you're a pretty cluey bunch!!!). For those of you interested, the Collins report can be found at: http://www.defence.gov.au/minister/1999/index.html under Ministerial Statements for July 1999. Lastly, I am contemplating building a static model of the Oberons - I want something substantially bigger than 1/350: any suggestions? And how difficult would it be? I have basically thought of starting with two lengths of PVC pipe, cut in half to form the hull and buiding the conning tower etc from styrene. My apologies if my questions of late seem somewhat basic, I've only just started getting into ship modelling, I need a break from the trains and planes!!!!!!!! Thanks all, Philip Morgan. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: "arthur" Subject: Prinz Eugen Congrats on the 600th issue Shane. Could some kind soul please advise me on the measurements for the Prinz Eugen please? There appears to be differing lengths depending on which reference I use. All seem to agree on the W/L length of 199.5 metres but the O/A and beam measurements vary considerably. Arthur -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: "LAMKEEL" Subject: H.M.S. Bulldog A slight departure from the "A" class DD's of the R.N., but I have the full set of "As Fitted" plans for the next class, The B's in the Shape of HMS Bulldog. My interest was aroused when doing research at the Cumbria County Records Office at Duke Street Barrow in Furness, I discovered the Vickers Armstrong general arrangement drawings for a 4.7" Mark IX Gun on a high angle (60 degree) Mark XIII Mounting. I had never heard of such an animal, and knowing the problem of engaging enemy aircraft with the existing 30 and 40 degree Mountings on our DD's at the commencement of hostilities in 1939, I was suprised to find the G/A drawing dated 1930-31. I made enquiries and found that Bulldog carried out the sea trials for the new prototype mounting in 1931 when he new mounting was built in 'B' position. I later did research at our National Maritime Museum at where I examined the As Fitted for Bulldog. At 1/4" = 1 ft the mounting is plainly different to the standard 40 degree mountings. I have established that the Mark XIII Mounting was not a success, neither fish nor foul, and was not put into production. It was very difficult to load, in particular in any type of seaway, and so rather defeated the H/A idea. Her other 4.7" mountings were the standard Mark XVIII Mounting. However this was NOT the only attempt at a High Angle 4.7" Gun Mounting. On a later visit to Barrow I discovered drawings for the 4.7" Q.F.S.A. 40 calibre gun on the CP (Central Pivot) Mark XV Mounting, which was fitted to the submarines of the Thames, Porpoise and some of the Partian and Rainbow classes. This could elevate to 60 degrees, but was soon withdrawn as it affected the submarines stability. (Top Heavy). So it would seem that a working H/A weapon was available. All three of these above weapons are drawn in detail in my weapons lists. I have drawings (not drawn) for Bulldog too. Oh, as a sideline, ALL THE FLOWER CLASS WHATSIT DRAWINGS ARE ON THEIR WAY OVER THE POND. In the air right now. Only the text to complete. Yours "aye" John Lambert. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: John Snyder Subject: Re: HMS ARIADNE >> They are in B55, B30 and B15 and dark grey decks. << B55, B30, and B15 are already matched and mixed, and will be available in our Royal Navy Set 2. John Snyder Snyder & Short Enterprises The Paint Guys -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Rob Mackie" Subject: Warship Update This Warship (http://warship.simplenet.com) update, the first of a series I'll be doing during the month of the July, includes the following new items: Photo tour of HMCS Sackville (Flower Class Corvette) Photo tour of Victory Ship S.S. Red Oak Victory Photo tour of USS Pampanito (SS-383) WW2 Balao Class Fleet Submarine Additions to Model Gallery: 1/700 USS Porter in late 30s fit by Michael Leonard 1/125 LCI (Landing Craft Infantry) by Michael Leonard 1/350 USS Salem by John Sheridan (Classic Warships) 1/700 IJN Battleship Hyuga by David Fraser 1/700 IJN Destroyer Akizuki by David Fraser 1/350 Liberty Ship by Mike O'Connor 1/350 HMCS Sackville Flower Class Corvette by Mike O'Connor 1/350 German Destroyer Z37 by Mike O'Connor 1/700 Adams Class Destroyer by David Taylor (Skywave) T2 Tanker and Liberty Ship in formation by Mike Taylor (Loose Cannon, Skywave) T2 Tanker and Liberty Ship in formation by Mike Taylor Tom's Modelworks 1:232 USS Olympia set for Revell kit Tom's Modelworks 1:250 Destroyer Escort set for Revell Buckley DE/ HMS Bligh Added JAG Collective product listing page Added L'Arsenal product listing page Updated New Releases and Developments in 1250 Scale Published The July Pacific Front 1250 Scale Newsletter The three photo tours are especially noteworthy. They are among the best to appear on the warship site and should provide ample reference material for modelers of Flower Class corvettes and WW2 USN fleet subs. Rob Mackie Warship http://warship.simplenet.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume