Subject: SMML12/07/99VOL604 Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 00:02:15 +1000 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Modeling resources in Minneapolis-St. Paul./ Prinz Eugen Query 2: Modern Haze Gray 3: HMS Cossack 4: Re: Submarine ID 5: USN hull and deck colors 6: Re: CANBERRA colours 7: Re: Prinz Eugen 8: Re: Scale Ships 9: Re: Building display cases 10: Prinz Eugen dimensions and Yamato question 11: Re: Submarine ID 12: Re: Submarine ID 13: Richelieu references 14: Re: 1/350 Hood rumor 15: Prinz Eugen dimensions 16: Hunley movie 17: Life Rafts 18: PC 479 Model 19: Rigging? 20: 1/350 Missouri models 21: 1/10 scale Yamato 22: Re: USS Pine Island kit -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: Modelers Boatyard 2: Classic Warships Web Page -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Peter Mispelkamp" Subject: Modeling resources in Minneapolis-St. Paul./ Prinz Eugen Query Mark Thanks for the info. Unfortunately, I will be arriving on Tuesday night and leaving Friday evening so I will only have 2 nights to try and find anything. I will, however, certainly make an effort to check out the places you suggested. Thanks again. Prinz Eugen query My copy of the original German edition of Gröner's German Warships gives the Prinz an oa length of 212.5 meters after the addition of the clipper bow, and a wl length of 199.5 meters with a beam of 21.9. The Blücher came in at 205.9 meters OA ( again after the conversion of the bow) and a WL of 194.6, beam of 21.3. The Hipper is listed as being 202.8 (after bow conversion) and a WL of 194.6 and a beam of 21.3. I wonder if many the errors you are seeing are because the authors are not taking into consideration the addition of the Atlantic bow - or if they are simply rounding off the metric conversion. Peter K. H. Mispelkamp. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: SeaPhoto@aol.com Subject: Modern Haze Gray Hi Everyone, I am curious to see what folks are using to match the modern US Navy haze gray, and deck anti-skid gray. I have been using an automotive lacquer for my projects to this point (65 buick color, if anyone is interested , but would like to switch over to hobby paints, as it is getting more difficult to obtain those older products here in California. Because I am painting larger models (4 feet and up) economy is a consideration - Model Master or other commonly available equivalent would be fine, but some of the more esoteric paints, like Pit Road would be less desirable. My apologies if the subject has been covered here before. I thought I had a new formula nailed down, but the hobby paint line I had planned to use ceased production. Thanks in advance! Kurt SeaPhoto -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "chenyangzhang" Subject: HMS Cossack Hi John Cossack actually went right alongside Altmark to allow the boarding party to get on. The leader of the boarding party, a Lieutenant Bradwell Turner lept accross the gap between the 2 ships followed by a Petty Officer Atkins. Atkins fell short but was able to hang on to the Altmark's side. He was helped onto the ship by Turner and they then made fast a rope from the forecastle of the Cossack. The Altmark had been manouvering to try to ram Cossack and when the Cossack went alongside went to full speed to try to force the Cossack ashore. As a result of this the Altmark grounded by her stern, the Cossack avoiding this fate by casting off as soon as it was realised what was happening. The armed guard put on board the Altamrk by the Graf Spee opened fire on the British boarding party, wounding Gunner Smith. They then left the Altmark and sniped at the boarding party from the shore. However, due to snowy conditions they were quite visible and were rapidly finished off by the boarding party. The Cossack would have certainly stayed in close contact with the Altmark so your diorama should show this. Chris Langtree -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: Ives100@aol.com Subject: Re: Submarine ID >> I now ask for help in identifying a submarine model I was given some years ago. On first appearance, it looks like a Polaris-type. It is cut away on one side, has very good interior detail and has some of the SLBM tubes exposed. As the model was given to me in a completed state, I have been unable to identify it. It may be of Revell origin. I don't know what scale it is. Can anyone help ?(dumb question - you're a pretty cluey bunch!!!). << Two possibilities here: This is either an old Renwal SSBN model, which had considerable but rather erroneous details, or the more recent vintage and much cruder Revell cutaway model, usually marketed as a Polaris "Show Off" model. This was reissued in the mid-90's or so. The story gets somewhat complex, as Revell acquired the molds from the defunct Renwal company and reissued them briefly (late 70's) as their own, usually as the Andrew Jackson SSBN. If it is the Renwal kit, the scale is nominally 1:200. All Renwal molds were the same size (about 25 inches in length), even though the subs they represented varied from 380 feet (early SSBNs) to about 415-420 feet in length (SSBN 616 and on). Most of the Renwals had a solid hull half that folded down to display the interior; the Thomas Jefferson version had one clear side hull. The Revell kit was another "box-scale" which IIRC, worked out to 1:228 or some other similar bizarre number. A remote possibility is that your model is one of the original Revell "embarrassments" from the late 50's. In their rush to get a Polaris sub model to market, Revell produced one that had 8 instead of the correct 16 SLBM launch tubes (whoops!!). Shortly after that, the more correct Renwal kits made it into the market. Give us more descriptions of your model, and we'll see if we can pin it down. Tom Dougherty Visit the SubCommittee at: http://www.wolfsong.com/SubCommittee/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: Douglas Bauer Subject: USN hull and deck colors I'm presently scratchbuilding a 1:350 model of USS Salamonie (AO 26), and need a little info. I know this question has been asked a zillion times, but at the time it didn't pertain to me, so I didn't pay any attention: what manufacturer produces Haze Gray and Deck Gray paints (enamel or acrylic) suitable for a WWII-vintage model? I used Floquil's Haze Gray for the JSP USS Cimarron (AO177) and I thought it was perfect in 1:700, but apparently it's no longer produced. I've read all the comments about actual colors being more subjective than anything else....so I guess I'm soliciting some personal opinions and preferences. Another thing, on the ships I served aboard, the undersides of overhangs were painted white...was this the case during WWII? Any help will be greatly appreciated. Thanks Doug Bauer -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: John Snyder Subject: Re: CANBERRA colours Philip: Many moons ago--the Fall of 1965 to be exact--I took a wonderful night shot of CANBERRA as she was tied up in San Francisco. My memory tells me that she was indeed in white and straw. Actually, I was just about to write that memory was all I had to go on, since I haven't seen that slide in years. But, lo and behold, I just found it and she is just as I remembered. I can scan the slide and e-mail it as an attachment, if you'd like. John Snyder Snyder & Short Enterprises The Paint Guys -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: Damian Pliszka Subject: Re: Prinz Eugen Hi, I found in my reference (polish monograph NAUTILUS 1 "Admiral Hipper class cruisers" with one on the best 1:400 drwings I ever seen)following lenghts: overall: 212.5 m (after bow rebuilt) water lenght: 199.5 m max. width: 21.9 m (21.7 m) dependig on author beam std.: 5.83 m max.: 7.95 m (7.94 m) as above I hope that this help Damian -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: CapnTroy@aol.com Subject: Re: Scale Ships >> Has anyone heard of a company called Scale Ships of Marina del Rey, California? Do they have a web page or e-mail address? What products do they sell? << Scaleships still operates form Marina del Rey, Ca., they can be reached at: HARBORMODL@AOL.COM In addition to the 12' Ticonderoga Cruiser kit in 1/48 scale, they have a large scale LST, Swift Boat, PBR, T-ATF modern Navy fleet tug and other items. Troy Waters -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: Lawman555@aol.com Subject: Re: Building display cases Guys; I am so embarrassed. I read the article on building display cases and apparently deleted it, choosing instead to download the wrong file. I tried to access your web site; but could not get on it. I would really appreciate getting a copy of the article on building a display case from scratch, using 1/8" or 1/4" plastic sheets. Again, I am SOOOOO embarassed. Can you help me?! I feel sooo ashamed. Jim Myers -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: "Jens H. Brandal" Subject: Prinz Eugen dimensions and Yamato question >> Could some kind soul please advise me on the measurements for the Prinz Eugen please? << Erich Groener's book "German Warships 1815-1945, vol 1: Major Surface Vessels" give the dimensions (metres) as follows: Length 207.7 oa, 199.5cwl, 212 oa mod (could this be modified with the clipper bow?) Breadth 21.3 Draught 7.2 max, 6.5 des, 5.8 std. A couple of days ago, I received a book from Hobbylink Japan called "Super Illustration: Battleship Yamato". The text is in Japanese, but the main headings are duplicated in english. The book is filled with isomteric perspective drawings of the exterior and details of the bridge, hull, gun turrets, funnel, AAA - excellent stuff for the modeller. There are also three side and plan views of the Yamato showing her as completed (December 1941), after refit (March - October 1944) and in the final stage (april 1945). When comparing these plans to the Tamiya 1:350 kit, it looks like the Tamiya kit is a mix and match of both these configurations - provided these plans are correct. They are probably reflecting new information on the ship, and I would expect a book of this caliber to be quite accurate. The kit claims to represent the Yamato in her last cruise (that's what the instructions say), but that would require the single barrelled 25 mm guns to be removed, and some of their positions replaced by triple barreled ones. The single barrelled 25 mms are OK for the 1944 refit. The number of triple 25mm in turrets next to the superstructure is the same, but for the 1944 refit, there should only be two on each hull side, and one fewer each side on the forward end of the superstructure. Also, there should be no AAA on the no. 2 and 3 turrets - there are appropriate for the 1945 Yamato. The 1945 Yamato also has two triple 25 mm guns on the fantail which the kit does not include. All in all, it looks like it will be a lot easier to build the kit after the 1944 refit as there are not enough triple 25 mm turrets to allow the late configuration to be made. I'm not fussy - I just want a Yamato on the shelf, but I want to know which is correct: The plans or the Tamiya kit? Sorry for a long question to a short answer. Jens -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: CBNJBB62@aol.com Subject: Re: Submarine ID Dear Philip: There were two American companies that produced cutaway models of SSBN's. There was Revell which produced the George Washington class: George Washington, Patrick Henry, Theodore Roosevelt, Robert E. Lee and Abraham Lincoln, these names and their numbers SSBN 598-602 were provided in the decals sheet. The second company was RENEWAL they produced the next class Ethan Allen and I think they produced the Ethan Allen, Thomas Jefferson, and I forget the other one. I think their scale was 1/500 for both if you can get a copy of the John Burns Kit collector catalogue it can you a complete list of their production. As I recall the Renewal was bigger about 21.5 inches long and Revell kits were about 16-18 inches long. I hope this of help. Craig Bennett -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: CapnAgee@aol.com Subject: Re: Submarine ID Ahoy there! You are probably remembering the old Revell Polaris Nuclear Submarine "Show-off" model which featured a cutaway starboard hull. It was based on the USS George Washington SSBN 598 Class boats. Kit was H-437 circa 1975 (God - that's 24 years ago!) Ray -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: Darren Scannell Subject: Richelieu references Hi all, I was checking out the Marines Magazine site the other day (the link was in a previous SMML) and I came across a monograph on the Richelieu. It's a little pricey so I was wondering if anybody knew anything about it? Does it have any English in it? Are there other sources available for building the Heller kit that would suffice, or is this the 'ultimate' book that no sane modeler should be without? : ) Any comments on reference materials would be appreciated since I doubt I'll be able to take a tour of her any time soon and my high school french is kinda rusty. Thanks, Darren Scannell -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: John MacDonald Subject: Re: 1/350 Hood rumor The company is ICM and is based in the Ukraine. They have already produced a number of good, nicely detailed 1/48 aircraft and 1/35 armour kits - all at VERY attractive prices. They have announced future 1/350 scale releases of the German WWI battleships Konig and Grosser Kurfurst. I too, have heard the rumour of a Hood. If their upcoming ship kits are as detailed as their aircraft and armour, we're in for a treat. Maybe Loren, Rusty, Steve, Tom or Mike can start thinking of some photo-etch for these kits. John MacDonald Ottawa, Canada -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: jmaine@golden.net Subject: Prinz Eugen dimensions I'm sure Arthur will gets lots of responses to this question but I'll throw my two cents worth in anyway. According to H.T. Lenton's German Surface Vessels Vol. 1, the dimensions of the Prinz Eugen class (Prinz Eugen, Seydlitz, Lutzow) were: 635'(wl) 689'(oa) X 71'6" X 19'/26' They were thus slightly longer and beamier than the earlier Hipper class (Admiral Hipper, Blucher): 639'9"(wl) 675'9"(oa) X 70' X 19'/25'3" Hope this is helpful, John Maine Kitchener, Ontario -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: "Kenneth H. Goldman" Subject: Hunley movie The concept of the film gives short shrift to the submarine history that preceeded Hunley, but then fails to elevate the vessel to being a character in a movie that was theoretically about it. In a word, "lame." If Ted Turner took eight years to come up with that script, he definitely needs another line of work. The cinematography was awful, and the direction on a par with that. The lighting was unrealistic and as flat as the movie. Despite a couple of cheesey computer effects, the special effects were pretty good. Although the replica was good, it seemed larger on the inside than the outside -- maybe Dr. Who helped design it. The film should have been titled "Lt. Dixon Meets His Fate." The writer/director (usually a mistake to combine the two) either never saw Das Boot or wasn't paying attention to how it was crafted. The time wasted on Dixon's black-and-white flashbacks would have been better spent on developing the drama of what three crews volunteered for than in trying to force the audience to care about Dixon. Let's just say that I came very close to turning the damn thing off. Ken Goldman THE WALRUS AND THE CARPENTER http://www.wman.com/~khgold/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: "Michael Connelley" Subject: Life Rafts Howdy: Can anyone tell me the color of the life rafts that were carried on nearly all US surface ships during WW2? It seems that the Arizona had a few at the time of her loss, but I have no idea how to paint them. Cheers Mike Connelley -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: "Russell C. Fox, Jr." Subject: PC 479 Model I am wanting to purchase a model, of a PC Navy boat used during W.W.II, for my father. I noticed the PC479 model built by Thomas A Pollock and wondered if it was for sale? If not, would it be possible to purchase a similar model completely furnished and assembled? Thanks for any help you can provide. Russell Fox -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: gjstein@mindspring.com Subject: Rigging? Has anyone used the "e-z wire" from http://www.berkshirejunction.com? It's designed for 1/87 scale telephone lines and comes in 100 feet roles in four colors. Good review of product in current issue of Model Railroader. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: DrT388@aol.com Subject: 1/350 Missouri models Hi Guys, Just got an email from BB63 USS Missouri. According to them they are taking donations of models for display in the model museum that will be built aboard the ship. The donated models will have a label plate that will give recognition to the builder, with their name, city and state. If anyone is interested I suggest writing to them at: mailto:bb6301@email.msn.com Direct the inquiry to Lee. Regards, David Turner -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 21) From: "Myhrman" Subject: 1/10 scale Yamato Hello all! I have been out for a while but am back home and now have the pleasure to go through a large number of SMML. About a month ago there were a few question on a 1/10 scale Yamato being build in Japan, if it really existed and if there were any pictures. Well, the model is being build and I belive the plan is that it should be compleated sometime during 2001. There have been some pictures in Japanese magazines. One good is the publisher Gakken's volume 20 of their Japanese Navy series. What is completed so far based on what the pictures show are: Catapults with Mitsubishi F1M floatplane fighter Funnel (almost as tall as the modeler himself shown in the picture) Rangefinder on top of superstructure Secondary gunturrents And some beautifully made smaller(?) parts such as anti aircraft guns in different sizes, rangefinders, searchlights etc. There was also questions on a 1/20 scale model of the ship used in a Japanese movie. This model is still around and is displayed outside the Tokyo maritime museum. Pesonally I think that model is BIG. Just imagine the 1/10 scale one, that one streches more than 26 meters. Best Regards Johan Myhrman -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 22) From: "Clappsy, Jim (DF - PCC)" Subject: Re: USS Pine Island kit Was their somebody looking for this kit because I found 1 at our monthly meeting if anyone wants it just let me know. I'm just trying to help a fellow modeler JIM C -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Tony Suess" Subject: Modelers Boatyard The Modelers Boatyard at http://www.modelersboatyard.com now has the complete line of Badger Air-Brushes' MODELflex Marine Paints. Developed with the assistance of professional modelers, over 50 colors are included in the product line. They can be found at http://www.modelersboatyard.com/Fittings/modelflex.htm. Snyder & Short Enterprises has just released their Royal Navy Color Reference Cards. The can be found at: http://www.modelersboatyard.com/Fittings/paint_reference_cards.htm Tony The Modelers Boatyard The Internet's Largest, Most Complete Ship Modelers Resource http://www.modelersboatyard.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: SteveWiper@aol.com Subject: Classic Warships Web Page The Classic Warships Web Page is up and running. I will make this posting periodically for those who may have missed the announcement. The address is - http://www.classicwarships.simplenet.com Hope you enjoy! Steve Wiper/Classic Warships -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume