Subject: SMML29/07/99VOL621 Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 01:17:58 +1000 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: Shinano 2: Re: Shinano 3: River Gunboats 4: ILLUSTRIOUS 5: USCGC Taney/Campbell model 6: IPMS/USA Nationals 7: 1/700 Shinano and Marx Sea Witch 8: VARIOUS including ICM 1/350 KITS 9: First Model 10: Heller Bismarck 11: first ship model 12: Book on the Princesses 13: Re: Sea Tiger Pink 14: Judging 15: RE: Shinano 16: IPMS(US) nationals Question? 17: Floating Drydock/BWN USS Enterprise CV-6 Plans/Instructions 18: Teak -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: Re: Paint Chips 2: Re: WARSPITE Camo 3: Re: Liberty Ship 4: Naval Base Website 5: S&S Prices -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: John Philip Downing Subject: Re: Shinano >> I picked up the Shinano kit the other day and have a few comments/question regarding. Is it usual that a kit be so different than the test shots? The test shots show a two part hull and this kit has a single piece hull. Is it me, or does it seem like the hull is for the old tooling Yamato? I never had that kit but the bow looks wider than the new tool Yamato I have. In my box was 3 sprues (individually wrapped) of boats and AA guns, although it seems that the main sprue of the Shinao already has all the AA I need and there is no call for a flotilla of small boats in the instructions. Overall I'm quite impressed with the look and size of the ship, and have tossed the idea of converting a 1/350 Yamato into the Shinano (more a scratchbuild really as the only part from the Yamato is the hull!. Does anyone have comment or criticism (good or bad) regarding this latest offering? << This sounds an awfully lot like the OLD Tamiya Shinano with leviathan upgrade. Is the Hangar deck in one piece, with no floor? The 3 Leviathan sprues are for replacing any of the small parts which you feel they might improve. You can build the model without them if you wish. I did maybe twenty years ago. It is an impressive ship. Or you can try taking it back and waiting for the new one. I like the idea of the 1/350 conversion. There was at one time a 1/250 kit, but it was rather (some would say very) crude. Good luck, John... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Fernando, Yohan" Subject: Re: Shinano Mike, Which version of the Shinano kit do you have? From your description, sounds like the older of the two releases. The old release really is just the old Yamato hull (with the wider bow) with a hanger deck piece that fit on top of it. The three sprues with all the AA guns and boats you mention are the Leviathan upgrade sprues. The old kit has the box art with the Shinano accompanied by some transports and she is heading slightly away from the viewer. The new release art has the Shinano alone heading towards the viewer. Yohan -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "chenyangzhang" Subject: River Gunboats Hi all Well 3 Illustrious weren't going to win the battle of Midway with the aircraft equipment they had at the time (Fairey gets my award for the worse aircraft designer of all time). With regard to survivability, Franklin one or two bombs never fought again. Illustrious six bombs and still going. However my main question does anyone know if there are any models of the Royal Navy's Insect class river gunboats available? Chris Langtree -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: John Snyder Subject: ILLUSTRIOUS As far as colours go, that will depend on which of the disruptive schemes you select, and which period you're depicting. Provide that information, and we can probably provide some pretty good guidance. John Snyder Snyder & Short Enterprises The Paint Guys -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: Duane Fowler Subject: USCGC Taney/Campbell model The Revell kit is a model of the Campbell in the early 50s. It is not the Taney. The Taney was never fitted like the kit. I do have a photograph of the Campbell that looks very much like the kit and I believe may have been the basis for it. The kit was originally issued as the Campbell and only reissued as the Taney because the Taney was a better known ship. Neither ship was ever configured like the kit when they wore the racing stripe with the black COAST GUARD on the sides (post 1967). It's probably a blessing that the decals were damaged. Best regards, Duane Fowler -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: Duane Fowler Subject: IPMS/USA Nationals I agree with John, the US Nationals were great! I spent too much, stayed out too late, and generally had a great time. The SMML lunch was a success too, although next time we really should get a table that doesn't face the pool. Lots of stuff to watch in the water, no ships. It was great meeting everyone and seeing what was available from the different venders. There were a number of great new kits being shown and several under developement. Looks like the USCG will finally be represented in resin. The coming year will be a real winner for the ship modelers! Best regards, Duane Fowler -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: Loren Perry Subject: 1/700 Shinano and Marx Sea Witch The one-piece hull Shinano kit is the original Tamiya offering dating back over 20 years. The revised new kit has a two-piece hull. Here are some more features of the rare old Marx Sea Witch clipper ship kit, which I'd received as a Christmas gift ca. 1957 or so: The model measured three feet long when completed. It had a one-piece hull molded in very thick black plastic. The smooth hull had little engraved detailing; the lower hull was to be painted gold, but no underwater plating was represented. Two circular black display pedestals with slotted tops held the model upright. The other plastic parts (deck houses, boats, masts, etc.) were molded in white and brown, and possibly another color or two. With the exception of the lithographed sheet metal decks (featuring printed deck planking detail and pre-punched locator holes for the plastic deck fittings), all the other parts were plastic, including a full set of vacu-formed white plastic sails. The instructions showed how to secure all the deckhouses, pinrails, etc. to the metal decks through the use of a heated screwdriver; the plastic parts had thick round pins that penetrated the deck and were then to be heat-softened into a rivet beneath the decks. (This was also a common 1950's technique for plastic model airplane builders for securing wheels to landing gear allowing them to turn. Ditto certain plastic ship kits for rotating turrets, etc.) Once the plastic parts were secured to the decks, the completed deck assemblies were then fitted into the hull by sliding (or flexing) the metal decks into molded slots found inside the hull's upper edges. Scores of rigging blocks were supplied molded in brown plastic but the modeler had to drill rigging holes in each one of the blocks with a kit-furnished drill secured into a small wooden cylindrical handle. Some of the blocks were single sheave, others were double sheave. Once again, I did all of this on mine and cursed Marx for not making the blocks with holes already pre-drilled. The kit's instructions showed how to secure the vacu-formed sails to the yardarms and forestays using an elaborate stitch pattern to be sewn into the edges of the sails using a kit-supplied needle. I did this on mine and it looked very realistic at the time. A tin-and-wire needle threader was also supplied along with plenty of rigging thread of different types and colors. The instructions also showed how to make the ratlines using the supplied thread using the traditional clove-hitch knot used to secure the ratlines themselves to the shrouds. The bottom ends of the shrouds were to be knotted and the knots glued into molded cavities on the inboard faces of the plastic deadeyes' upper ends. A set of gold-colored decals was provided for the ship's nameplates. For its time, the Marx clipper ship kit yielded a very detailed and fine looking model of the Sea Witch. This was some time before the large Revell 1/96 scale models of the Cutty Sark, Thermopolae and Constitution appeared, so the Marx kit was probably the largest injection molded plastic kit of its day. I'd love to know what became of the tooling. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: "Caroline Carter" Subject: VARIOUS including ICM 1/350 KITS Hi SMMLlie folk, Just to qualify (or complicate!!) various rumours/statements, I spoke with the U.K. importers of ICM kits today, with whom we will be dealing with directly, and was told that either the Konig or the Grosser Kurfurst have a September release date, but the importer told me that, realistically, he expects the first of these two releases to arrive a few months later than the release schedule as the company (like all of us!) is well behind their current release schedule...he tells me that the ICM Hood kit is in the planning stage (it has NOT yet been tooled, contrary to rumour!), and should be released sometime in Year 2000 in fact. New Subject! Re Rob Mackie's "WARSHIP" post, it will be interesting to see his review of the WSW 1/700 Askold, as we are still awaiting our WSW delivery which includes this and other new kits, to take a look (!) and, maybe at the same time, we MIGHT see a review of the WEM 1/700 Askold kit on "WARSHIP", as this review was originally scheduled (along with a link to the WEM web pages) back in January, just after the kit was released.. Several folks we know, including a number of SMMLlies, who don't subscribe to NAVIS where there is a review, or to Plastic Ship Modeler (review in the last issue, Issue 19), have been waiting for this to appear... Rob? .. your comments would be much appreciated!! ANOTHER new subject! To John ("Chippy") Snyder.. so.. when can we expect to see RN Chips Set Two?! We simply love Set One over here! Super job and I guess you're getting well-deserved congrats and thanks from all quarters at this time. Caroline and Dave Carter, White Ensign Models PS We're on target for the End-of-August specials for all those folks who sent us their details again after our recent desparate episode.. (Many thanks guys!) and we're pleased to say that we're almost back on course... special thanks to Shane and Lorna in particular for their support during this difficult time. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: Gabor Hopocky Subject: First Model Hi SMML, As I remember my first ship model was a three masted sailing ship, but I cannot remember its name and producer. I was 7 years old. The next two were the Potemkin and the Aurora, both Soviet models, that were the only available warships here in Hungary in the early seventies. Then, after an about 20 years old intermission came Italeri's USS Nimitz and Nitchimo's U-107. And now I've got that old Soviet Potemkin model again, that I'm planning to build with the kind help of this list. Regards Gabor Hopocky Budapest Hungary -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: KDur597268@aol.com Subject: Heller Bismarck Hi folks, OK, this erstwhile lurker, aircraft modeler, ship modeler wannabee is actually going to launch a project. I went ahead and traded in my Academy Bismarck for the Heller, as a few people said it was a fine kit. (I eventually want to pair it with the Prinz Eugen in the same scale.) On first glance I agree, and/but I have a few questions pertaining to the first few construction steps: 1) I have read about the Tamiya/Academy narrow beam problems: does the Heller have them, too? It looks ok to me, but I haven't assembled it, and I'm not a Bis expert. 2) The barrells of the main battery have too much "step" between their stages, has anyone fixed this? 3) What color/material is the deck? I assume it's wood over the armored deck? If that's the case, was the wood painted? 4) Not pressing, but the kit has no Arados - are there 1/400 aftermarket 196s? 5) Pardom my forgetfullness - I think I've asked this before - but what would you recommend as the best single-volume reference on her? 6) I will order the GMM 1/400 German warship set -any caveats, words of advice here? Any other advise about this particular kit is welcomed. I'm sure I'll have more questions as I go along. Thanks very much. Ken Durling -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: rickl@efortress.com Subject: first ship model The very first model that I ever came into contact with was a 1/48th scale AD Skyraider by Allyn in the early 1950's when I was about 4 years old. It belonged to my uncle who was ordered to hand it over to me 'just for a minute' by my grandmother. Bad move. I finally made amends on Christmas Eve 1998 when I gave him an AMT AD-5W with a note of apology. My first ship was the Revell PT-212 around 1953, followed by the F.D.R., Missouri, Norton Sound and eventually every other ship model sold in the USA during that memorable decade. My favorite was the Renwall North Carolina, with the thick plastic used on the hull and 16" turrets sitting solidly on their barbettes that really felt like a battleship! Rick Lundin -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: JRuotsala@aol.com Subject: Book on the Princesses The book you looking for is the Pacific Princesses by Robert D. Turner, published by SONO NIS PRESS, Victoria, Canada 1977. Would be willing to let someone borrow the book briefly, if they can't get it through library exchange. Also what is the E-mail for Class Warships so I can check on the USS Alaska kit. Thanks Jim -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: "Richard - Charlotte Marelius" Subject: Re: Sea Tiger Pink If the Brits can have Mountbatten Pink, why not 'Sea Tiger Pink'? After reviewing the primary source material, I've found that the paint mix used for the USS Sea Tiger in Operation Petticoat was 8 cans of red lead and 12 cans of white lead paint. The on camera paint mixing scene implied a one-to-one ratio, but the scene in Tony Curtis' casino operation where the paint was acquired gives the 'correct' mix. Did Snyder & Short get this one right on the latest USN card? Does this count for any 'original research' brownie points? How many for the merit badge? Get well, Shane; and keep up the good work, Lorna. Considering the average size of the list this past week, this might become a permanent job - watch out, Shane! Rick Marelius Thanks for the compliment Rick but you only get 'brownie points' if you can describe Seaman Hornsby and his ailment correctly. Merit badges are awarded for being able to accurately reproduce the smoke from engine No 1 Mistress Lorna -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: John Snyder Subject: Judging I'd like to piggyback on Rusty White's comments. I was on the team at the IPMS/US Nationals that judged small-scale submarines, and sailing ships. As Rusty said, it's that last look over your model that can make all the difference in the world. I'd like to cite some specifics that I noted, without specifically identifying particular ships or modelers. In the sailing ship category, we had trouble with masts--particularly topmasts--being out of vertical (yardarms are less critical here, given how they were historically attached). Rigging was another problem area. Standing rigging should be taut, and frequently was not on the models we saw. If the ship is depicted underway, then the running rigging to the sails should have been taut as well--same problem. But back to the glue. One entrant whose ships were otherwise hands-down winners apparently completed his models by putting down flaked and coiled lines on deck, and cannon mounts on the gun decks. Every bit of coiled or flaked line, every line end, every gun mount had copious amounts of shiny superglue showing under and around. It made for instant elimination. The problem could have been handled by--as Rusty pointed out--giving the entire ship a blast of clear flat. If there were elements that needed to remain glossy, then simply brushing clear flat on the offending glue marks would have done the job. It was really a shame. Another model, in a category I didn't judge, caught my eye with its paint scheme (no surprise there). Again, a model that otherwise might have been a prizewinner was marred by lack of attention to detail, in this case the correct colors used in USN Measure 12 modified, and the method of application. MS12 mod used Sea Blue 5-S (or sometimes Navy Blue 5-N) and Ocean Gray 5-O on the hull, with Ocean Gray 5-O and Haze Gray 5-H on the superstructure, in a hard-edged pattern. This particular model had the hull correctly painted, but then carried the hull colors up onto the superstructure, where they were applied with soft airbrushed edges. The builder had obviously done enough research to correctly identify the camouflage measure and pattern--and other details as well--but somehow missed some of the basics on colors and applications; in this case it was critical. So, as Rusty wrote, take care with the details, and always take that last look around your model. John Snyder Snyder & Short Enterprises The Paint Guys -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: "Richard - Charlotte Marelius" Subject: Re: Shinano Mike, are you sure you got the new kit? Your description sounds like the old one, based on the old tool Yamato hull. The one I built a few years ago was listed as "ITEM 31210" on the box, which seems to be a common package between Tamiya America and Europe. The old hull molding has some of the superstructure molded into it, while the new hull has only the secondary turret mounts integral, with an opening between them. I haven't done a side-by-side comparison, but I have heard that the new kit has a more slender bow. It still builds into a nice model, though IIRC, the rear elevator, which is molded in the down position and has a seperate piece for the up position that does not fit well, so it should be replaced, glued permanently and filled, or left off. Cheers, Rick Marelius -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: The Codes Subject: IPMS US nationals Question? hello list, I was wondering how may ships were present in the sail catogory??? anything cut to the waterline? regards Bill Code -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: Michael Eisenstadt Subject: Floating Drydock/BWN USS Enterprise CV-6 Plans/Instructions Folks: Is there anybody out there who has a set of Floating Drydock plans for the USS Enterprise CV-6 in 1/192 scale that they would like to sell or would be willing to loan out? Likewise, is there anyone out there with a set of instructions for the BWN 1/350 kit of the USS Enterprise that they are willing to part with or loan out? My Tamiya 1/700 scale USS Enterprise conversion project is gathering steam: I've bought the kit and am ready to move forward with construction! Thanks! Best wishes, Mike Eisenstadt -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: "Cooper, Mike" Subject: Teak Dear SMMLies I can claim no expertise here, but can I warn against the assumption that even in scale RN decks (or anyones) were "Bleached Teak". I note Alan Ravens comments that unpainted decks show as surprisingly dark, and add from some Kriegsmarine colour shots that what shows up is nearer Humbrol 72 or even 26. My own observation from contemporary wood decks is that a duller, greyer tone may be in order. Certainly, a pure creamy colour like the old Humbrol Bleached Teak feels far too clean for my eye. I don't have any teak around chez Cooper - an I know very little about wood (its what we used before plastic, isn't it), but observation suggest that most woods, whilst starting off "bleached teak: soon weather grey. Mike Cooper Reading, UK - overcast and cool, but promising to turn muggy and yuk! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: John Snyder Subject: Re: Paint Chips Mr. Vimieraa is correct: we have actual samples from the SHEFFIELD, as well as from ARETHUSA and.... We've also got original, hand-painted Admiralty camouflage sheets for FARNSDALE. These colors will be included--and identified--in RN Set 2. We're still shooting for late September/early October, and will keep everyone posted. Now please be patient, Mr. Vimieraa! John Snyder Snyder & Short Enterprises The Paint Guys -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: John Snyder Subject: Re: WARSPITE Camo Paolo Pizzi has speculated on deck colours similar to USN Deck Blue 20-B. I can tell you that we have in our possession, Admiralty camouflage sheets for HMS FARNSDALE, depicting two separate disruptive schemes. Both call for MS2 as the deck colour. In the absence of evidence to the contrary for WARSPITE, that seems a logical choice. John Snyder Snyder & Short Enterprises The Paint Guys -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: SantMin@aol.com Subject: Re: Liberty Ship I don't think anyone has mentioned the really nice 1/350 scale Liberty Ship by Iron Shipwrights (full resin and etch). I have two of these left in my shop (at reduced rate) if anyone is interested. Contact me off line. Cheers, Bob Santos SantMin@aol.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: "Shaya Novak" Subject: Naval Base Website For those JSP ship kits goto: http://www.modelshipbuilding.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: John Snyder Subject: S&S Prices This is in the way of a "heads-up" to our friends at SMML and elsewhere. After a year in business, we have a better handle on our expenses and find that we underpriced our two US Navy sets in terms of the labor involved in their assembly. Therefore, we expect to raise our prices on the two US Navy sets around the first of October: USN Set 1 will become $18 retail, while USN Set 2 will go to $25 retail; dealer prices will be adjusted accordingly. Current prices--$14 and $21 respectively--hold good until the end of September. John Snyder Snyder & Short Enterprises The Paint Guys -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume