Subject: SMML03/08/99VOL626 Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1999 01:40:31 +1000 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: First Model 2: Re: USS STEWART 3: Re: Blast Bags 4: BM Decks 5: New Yamato Book !! 6: Judging 7: Re: Yamato decks 8: Re: West Coast IPMS/US Nationals 9: railing/masking/painting order 10: Re: Judging Colour 11: Re IPMS Convention 12: Re: Judging color 13: Re: Hornet Model, Keep it civil 14: Re: Modelling Blast Bags 15: Instructions for Skywave USS Thach 16: USS Stewart 17: Assembly Question 18: Hit on beach, and other subs stories 19: Malta Museums 20: AD - AS - AR 21: Re: IPMS Nationals and the Constitution 22: Re: Nationals and vendors 23: Get Well Jeff Herne 24: Ship Colors 25: Re: Color of Teak 26: Re: Judging 27: Re: Judging 28: 1/700 scale aircraft decals; June '42 aircraft colors/CV-6 29: American Civil War ships 30: Re: Weathered Decks 31: Newbie question 32: Re: West Coast Nationals 33: Re: IJN PC-102 ex USS Stewart 34: Re: Picpost update 35: WEM UPDATE/RUMOUR QUERY 36: IJN PC-102 ex USS Stewart 37: Re: Judging from the British Perspective 38: Alive and well...and my camo input 39: USS Missouri - question about firing 16" guns -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: Wanted to sell or trade 2: Models of HMS Hood 3: Warship Update 4: New items at Research in Scale 5: AD: Now In Stock! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS Well, it's been interesting to read your posts while Shane has been laid up but as of tomorrow's SMML he'll be back on deck. So this is my last night with you all :-( And without wishing to stir the colour debate up again, as a non-shippie I must say that it was only a couple of months or so ago that I realised they weren't all painted a uniform grey ;-) This means that while I was getting it out I learned something more about ships colours - whether I'll ever use it or not is not the question. Can I go back to my modelling bench now please???? Mistress Lorna -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Reynaga, Tim@EDD" Subject: Re: First Model >> My first model was the Hasegawa's 1/700th cruiser "Nachi" in the year 1974. I was twelve years old. Since then I have building 1/35 scale tanks and actually Historex's figures. But finally I came back to the ships in this last spring. << >> It's eerie... I was 12 years old, too, *in 1974*, when I built "Haguro". What is it about those Myoko-class cruisers?! :-) << I think you're right: there must have been something about those cruisers. I built a 1/700 Myoko myself in 1974...I was only 11, though. Tim Reynaga -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: J.L.Pickstock@lboro.ac.uk (Les Pickstock) Subject: Re: USS STEWART At the time of Pearl Harbour USS STEWART was a "four-piper", flush decked destroyer similar to the USS WARD. Having fallen into the hands of the Japanese it was believed that she had been sunk. The DE was given the name STEWART in this belief. At the conclusion of the war PC-102 was repatriated under the name Ex USS STEWART and was then used as a target vessel. The main modification undertaken by the Japanese was the "trunking" of her stack into 1 main stack as well as a Japanese weapons fit. Les Pickstock. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "foeth" Subject: Re: Blast Bags A good technique for cloth that works for me is using Milliput, which is a two component epoxy putty that is soft to start with, and gets really rock hard. You can shape it easily, even with a wet brush, to get it completely in shape (And you can clean it up with a wet brush, so it is a really pleasant material to work with). You might want to wrap a tiny sheet of lead foil around the barrel to simulate the thinner bag at the end, as it is quite hard to get that right with putty alone. I have to confess I haven't done a real 1/350 blast bag, only with some AFV modeling, but it is great stuff, and I have seen it on other shipmodels. I also tried Tamiya and Humbroll putty, but that didn't work out very well. Foeth -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: "foeth" Subject: BM Decks >> What I am wondering is this: both the Van Beek model and the website's colour profiles of the ship show much of the aft superstructure decks (aft of the catapult) to be in the same "natural wood" finish as the main deck. Some of the upper decks of the forward superstructure are also shown in this finish. Is this correct for Bismarck during Exercise Rhine? << Yes! All those decks are teak (Please don't ask me which kind of teak colour), and were not painted. Foeth -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: SJantscher@aol.com Subject: New Yamato Book !! Calling all Yamato battleship addicts. Tired of the old (but excellent) Skulski book? Can't find that book? Need a new fix? I just received a dose of pure Yamato, and wanted to share it with you all. I finally received the book Yamato, WWII Series DX Vol.2 from Hobby link Japan (HLJ item number GAK001 WW II Series DX Vol. 2 BB Yamato, 4700 yen). This is a 144 page hard cover book in the same size as the common anatomy of a ship books. The first half are beautiful color photographs of the 1/100 scale Yamato model in Tokyo(?). This model has been covered at the Navis site, but these photographs are taken with such care, that seldom does one realize he's looking at a model. More than once I could have sworn that these were taken dock side during WWII with modern color film. There are two 1/350th scale color photo fold-outs (plan and profile) of the kit. The second half of the book brings together the surviving wartime photographs that most of us have seen before. There haven't been too many discoveries of recovered photographs caches recently. This second half (presumibly) covers the history of the Yamato and Musashi. I thought there were a couple of new photographs, but I could be mistaken. There are also some drawings of the ship, as well as a short history in text (Japanese) and photographs of the building of the grand model. In conclusion, this is the perfect companion to, and perhaps better than, the Skulski book. Short of scratchbuilding the Yamato (where the Skulski book would be better), for most all modelers, this is the book to get. This model of the Yamato is as close to perfect as I've ever seen. Steve Jantscher South of Minneapolis where it's a mild 70 degrees. PS- There is also a shot of their 1/100 scale Japanese aircraft carrier, the subject of Vol. 3? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: SJantscher@aol.com Subject: Judging I must take respectful exception to John Sheridan's comments concerning contest judging, and placing the merits (or lack there of) of a model on the builders interpretation of the "true" color scheme, vis-a-vie a judge's interpitation of the "true" color scheme. I'm fairly new to serious ship building, however I've been building aircraft for a long time and have known self-appointed experts on paint schemes before. A very strong case in point are Luftwaffe day fighter camouflage schemes. Hardly a contest goes by anymore without some "experten" claiming this or that Me-109 or Fw-190 wasn't painted that way, or that this model's shade of RLM 02, 74, 75,76 82, 83 etc are wrong. That is why, for the past few years, most of the contests I've attended, locals and regionals, have tended away from trying to judge the historical accuracy of a model's paint scheme, and instead covered the basics first. Not whether the color was correct, but was it applied and finished to standards better than other models present. Perhaps, as a final tie breaker between two equally well built and difficulty level kits, would historical accuracy weigh in the judging. I've been around long enough to know that what we thought we knew for sure just ten or fifteen years ago, is now proven to be wrong (Luftwaffe day fighters with dark greens tops, vice the correct greys). I have to believe the builder that expends enormous amounts of time, money and effort building a technically competitive model, has researched the paint scheme to the best of his ability. He may not have the expertens' resources, or be on RMS, or SMML. Fewer and fewer of us can say we were on the Hornet, or remember what the paint scheme was. Color photos can and do deteriorate. Contemporaneous records are often ignored, or modified. I guess what I'm trying to say is that the move away from being "paint scheme model Nazis" has been a welcome change to most model contests I've attended, and attendees I've talked with. Just remember there is always someone smarter coming up behind you. Research into the past is happening all the time, and we're learning new things about ships that we thought we already had down pat. Maybe in another five years we'll find out the builder did paint it right. IPMS is a model building society first, and not a historical research institute. Awaiting incoming fire, Steve Jantscher -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: "Kenneth H. Goldman" Subject: Re: Yamato decks I am a woodworker - a professional woodcarver/sculptor. In general, cypress starts out as a yellow/white color, while teak is a dark honey, bordering on caramel. You can make your own weathering samples by treating veneer strips or cut offs with amonium hydroxide (household amonia without the added soap). This gives a good approximation of the silver/gray caused by water and sun bleaching. Hey, maybe John Snyder and I could work on a woodchip set and get some of Loren Perry's tiny brass sailors to holystone some tiny planks. Note to Peter Hall: Tell me how you get Casey Ryback out of honey and caramel? Anyway, wasn't the movie about Erika Eleniak, and definitely was not wearing Measure 21?! Casey Ryback, who's that? :-}) Ken Goldman THE WALRUS AND THE CARPENTER http://www.wman.com/~khgold/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: "Tom & Carolyn Harrison" Subject: Re: West Coast IPMS/US Nationals -QUESTION!!! Would someone from the E-Board of the IPMS explain (in detail) how Chicago was or may be awarded the 2001 Western Region Nationals? If it's true that the Selection Committee at Orlando selected Seattle as the site for the 2001 Naitonals, how can the E-Board override this selection? If they can, why have a selection committee at all. Do the IPMS bylaws allow for the E-board to make this decision? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: KDur597268@aol.com Subject: railing/masking/painting order Hi Folks, Being a relative newbie to the fine art of ship modeling, I'd like to ask for some help in clarifying my thinking on the way you do the hull/superstructure, deck painting, railing sequence. Seems to me that in order to minimize glue spots and the like, that perhaps the best way would be to attach PE railings before painting, but I can imagine this making masking very awkward, especially with the railings on the upper decks. Do most of you attach the railings after painting and then paint them? Paint them off-model then attach? Also, as I run through the sequence mentally, it would seem that one would paint the hull and superstructures first, and then mask off the vertical surfaces while painting the decks. Is this correct? I'm wondering how standarized this sequence is among ship modelers. I know I certainly use standard sequences of assembly for aircraft, but much of that is fairly obvious - cockpit first, etc. Thanks much, and if this a FAQ thing, just "tell me where to go." Ken Durling -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: Norman Samish Subject: Re: Judging Colour How do you judges account for the lightening of colors with the increase in scale? For example, a correct model of a USS Hornet in 1:350 would be darker than a 1:700 Hornet, which would be darker than a 1:1200 Hornet. If the full-scale color was a dark gray, would the builder be penalized if he adjusted for the scale effect by using a light gray? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: graham walker Subject: Re IPMS Convention You have to be joking!!! No public!! Only 2,000 to 2,500 attending!! maybe the people who run these events aught to ask the UK IPMS Committee on how to run them right. I am sure that Caroline will back me up that a good thousand who come into our nats (IPMS UK) are joe public, who once made a model but grew out of them, year after year we see these people come around to have a look, and get rehooked on to the hobby, makes the vendors very happy, makes the committee very happy too. We who run the SIG or Club stands usually do not get to see much of the show as we are far to busy talking to joe public and fellow members alike. I know that I only got to see the show before the doors opened to the public once opened it was busy busy, Of course admitting joe public does mean MORE MONEY in the IPMS FUNDS, think on it, digest it (yeh it may take a couple of years to filter through), better Funds = Better Show. PS you may pass this on to the US IPMS graham @the Cruiser SIG -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: Judging color This is how it is. We are not supposed to judge models colors. The same goes for ships, a/c, armor or anything else. As mentioned earlier lots of things can effect the modelers choice of color such as lens filters, age of photos etc. I'm the last guy on this list to match knowledge of color with John Snyder. The scheme was basically correct in my view (I didn't judge the category). One great thing about using the committee system of judging is the discussion between the judges. If we aren't sure about something we'll look around and find someone who does know. Unfortunately, John couldn't (I suppose) sell his argument to the other two judges in his group. Maybe the modeler got away with something, maybe he didn't. No form of judging is perfect. As long as we all realize that will make the judges decisions easier to live with. On a side note I was very happy to hear John wanted to judge. His expertise is most welcome by all ship judges. See you next year in Dallas John (those Navy blues looked good on you). Rusty White IPMS Head ships judge -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: Hornet Model, Keep it civil I realize everyone's passions for a correct paint scheme. However, I know the fella that built that model and he does read SMML. So please, restrict your criticism to color shade on a general level. This modeler is very proud of that model as well he should be. I just noticed this discussion is getting hotter by the day. Rusty White IPMS Head ship judge -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: Modelling Blast Bags David Lilly wrote: >> This may be common knowledge to experienced shipbuilders but humor someone new to the hobby: how do you create blast bags for gun barrels when they are not included with the kit? I have a 1/350 USS San Francisco which I intend to build as she appeared in October-November 1942. Photographs clearly indicate blast bags for the 8" guns. An initial attempt to use filler putty looked terrible. Any help would be greatly appreciated. << David, I make 1/350 scale blast bags using Squadron Green Putty. Once the putty starts to dry it can be sculpted around the gun barrels and make a realistic canvas cover. Hope this helps. Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. http://www.okclive.com/flagship/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: Joseph Poutre Subject: Instructions for Skywave USS Thach Does anyone have instructions for the Skywave USS Thach FFG-43, the Perry class frigate? If so, can you send me a copy? My address is: 307 Avenue B Bayonne, NJ 07002 Thanks! Joe -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: "Bob Pearson" Subject: USS Stewart Jay, Warship International No.4 1988 has two articles on the Stewart by John Klar.. first is USS Stewart (DD-224) Design and Construction and the second is History of the USS Stewart (DD-224) 1920-1941 There is a simplified plan of her in 1940 by WJ Jurens, as well as various photos in USN service. However you are probably more interested in WI No.1 1990 .. which has USS DD-224 (ex-Stewart) - The Voyage home There are two photos of her taken after she was back in US hands. I can provide scans of the photos and plans if desired. Regards, Bob Pearson Managing Editor / Internet Modeler http://www.internetmodeler.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: Ross Bruce-QBR000 Subject: Assembly Question Greetings, I'm sure this is a less than educated question, but I'll ask anyway. I have recently embarked on my first resin ship model; I'm going to build it full hull which leads to the aforementioned question. What typically do you experienced builders use to join the two hull halves? Is CA to be used or some form of slow drying epoxy, or what? To Jeff and Shane, hope you gents are up and on your feet soon. Regards, Bruce -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: "F J Hueso" Subject: Hit on beach, and other subs stories As nobody answered Mark Doremus' query about the "torpedo-on-the-beach incident" I'll dare, with Mr. Dougherty and other submariners' permission: E.L. Beach, in his book "Submarine!" attributes such exploit to USS Seawolf when in Nov, 3, 1942 and under F.B. Warder's command, was investigating "in live" the failures of US torpedoes against the Sagami Maru in Davao, Philippines. Another story from that book which ever caught me, and present also in the movie, is that of "toilet paper- item unknown" It serves me back on the office to demonstrate to my mates that bureaucracy is universal (I know: I'm part of it!). And for those of 1962 vintage (mine), I also made the Nachi about 1974 (long, long ago gone), along with Suzuya and another cruiser which now escapes me. I had, by the end of the 70's a true "Combined Fleet" now slowly, very slowly recovering from continuous "Changing Home War". Regards Javier -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: "Alan Woodward" Subject: Malta Museums Hi, Bill Veigele wanted details of the maritime museum in Malta, so here goes. From the leaflets I picked up, this is located at the Old Naval Bakery of the British Naval headquarters at Fort St. Angelo, in Vittoriosa/Birgu (according to my map) and relates Malta's maritime history from early times to the present day. This is across Grand Harbour from Valetta and, as I didn't manage to visit this I cannot say how to get there except by bus from Valetta bus station (an experience!) There is also Malta's National War Museum, located at Fort St. Elmo at the seaward end of Valetta. The easiest way to this is straight through the arch entering Valetta and walk straight ahead down Republic Street to the end. This houses, among other things, the fuselage of the Gloster Gladiator Faith, an Italien Explosive Motor Boat and the George Cross and Citation awarded to the Island. There are also many naval photos and a section dealing with the Pedestal Convoy (Convoy of Santa Maria). This is a very good museum, but go in the morning, they shut at two in the summer. Another war museum is the Lascaris War Rooms, which house the original RAF fighter control rooms. Time again prevented me from visiting them, but they are somewhere below the Upper Barracca Gardens in Valetta. The Upper Barracca Gardens give an excellent view of the Grand Harbour, and if like me you're lucky, a naval ship might be moored right below you. Harbour tours go from Sliema strand waterfront. There are other operators, but you may want to check out the following website for cruises & tours: http://www.captainmorgan.com.mt/ hope this helps. Alan -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: DaveRiley1@aol.com Subject: AD - AS - AR After all this interesting discussion about the differences in tender/repair ship hulls, I just hope that my recently acquired (from Pacific Front) Loose Cannon Dixie class AD is the right kit for my needs. After all is said and done, if I can not build a reasonably accurate model of USS Piedmont (AD-17) - my first ship in those quiet, halcyon, pre-Tonkin Gulf days of the very early 60s - I shall be very disappointed. As it is, I have my work cut out for me. The kit depicts the ship in its WW2 configuration - not as it was in the early 60s with the aft 5"/38 guns removed and the Dash hanger in their place. Dave Riley ex GMT3 / USS Piedmont (1963-1965) Portsmouth, RI -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 21) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: IPMS Nationals and the Constitution The recent Nationals decision of the IPMS E-Board only shows how badly the IPMS Constitution needs to be rewritten. Mike Brickman (2nd VP), who announces the Nationals winner, started his speech saying that the decision was in direct violation of the IPMS Constitution. Actually NO ONE should have got the nationals. Mike called me several months back and told me that NO ONE from the West coast had sent him an "intent to bid" letter for the 2001 Nationals. So everyone missed the mandatory deadline to notify the 2nd VP of intent to bid. He asked if IPMS Metro Okla. City wanted to bid since we were the most current, viable bid having bid against Dallas last year. The reason we decided not to bid were three fold. First, If we did bid, we would be a definite underdog (unless no one else showed up). Since everyone on the E-Board turned us down before, if anyone else showed up we would almost surely lose out. The second reason was the dates we had bid earlier were no longer available at our hotel of choice. Third, the membership of IPMS Metro felt by bidding we would be condoning violation of the IPMS Constitution. After all, it was a safe decision by the E-Board. Who among us wants to miss out on the Nationals? The E-Boards decision was to throw the bidding open to the last three bidders (I believe. Correct me if I'm wrong) If we're not going to follow the Constitution and it's by laws why have it? The Constitution and its by laws just don't allow for such contingencies. That's why it needs to be brought up to date and rewritten. Last year in Santa Clara I was the bidder for IPMS Metro Okla. City and a LOT of bad things happened to us just because where the bidding process was concerned there were no set written down rules. They just made them up as they went along. To the E-Boards credit they fixed most of the problems there but only after it came crashing down around them. The Constitution is filled with "holes" like that. Rewrite it and cover all contingencies like "what if no one bids on the West coast" for example or just make the rules up as you go. I know this is off the subject, but I have remained silent for a year and I just wanted to vent my frustrations as to the urgency of the rewrite of the IPMS/USA Constitution. Rusty White IPMS Head ship judge Hi Rusty, Although some may feel this is slightly off topic, I do feel that matters like this need to be aired so that the membership of the club can think hard about where they'd like to see their club go in the future. Do they want a closed body that repels members or a forward thinking body that helps promote scale modelling? A rewrite of the Constitution offers a huge opportunity to junk what doesn't work and keep what does. Mistress Lorna -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 22) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: Nationals and vendors I can't believe they feel that way. I would have been Chairman of the 2000 Nationals if held in Oklahoma City. I wrote our clubs proposal and from that standpoint I can definitely say that the vendors are a MAJOR consideration when putting together a budget. The E Board considered vendors as a major source of income and will do whatever is necessary to protect them. Example: Last year they asked me to switch the contest room with the vendors room so as to provide the maximum amount of footage for the vendors. I thought the larger room should go to the contest. They told me that's where the money is. You vendors need to make your gripes known to IPMS. When it comes to the money you guys contribute to the nationals they listen. If enough of you tell them you're not coming believe Dallas will change thier mind. Penny Thomas is a good friend of mine and she only wants the Nats to go over well. I personally don't agree with shutting anyone out of the contest for any length of time, but as of now that's the way it's going. So contact IPMS and the Dallas bunch and let them know how you feel. Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. http://www.okclive.com/flagship/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 23) From: Alan Simon Subject: Get Well Jeff Herne From one Blue Devil (Destroyer) to another: May you have a successful overhaul and an even more successful next deployment. Alan Simon Atlanta, Ga. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 24) From: Al Imler Subject: Ship Colors In regards to all of the comments regarding color critisism. There are three things that are important to the shade of color being described. The Object, Lighting Conditions, and most important of all-the Observer. Color is the product of light being reflected from the object which is absorbed by the eye of the observer. Different lighting gives you a different shade. For instance, when looking at two paint chips inside under Cool White Flourescent bulbs they may match, but go outside or under Incandescent lighting and they may be quite different. This is called Metamerism. This is caused by usually using different pigments to arrive at the same match. I don't believe the military was as critical as we may think when it same to color matching. There are a lot more variables to color than one may think, as I'm sure John Snyder can attest to.. Just my two cents worth, Al Imler Kriegsmarine & High Seas Fleet Modeler (& Lab Manager-McCannColor, Inc.) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 25) From: Bill Rowe Subject: Re: Color of Teak My father had a cigarette box that was made from a piece of the teak deck of the USS Chicago (CA-29). The wood was removed when she got new aircraft, '37-'39. Currently there is some wax or polish on it, but it was almost certainly neglected for a time. The color is a yellow brown; not the teak on sees in furniture. If anyone suggest a web site with colors, I will be glad to give a precise reference. This neglects possibility that "teak" may be different species grown under different condition, and thus there is not a single correct color. Bill -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 26) From: James Corley Subject: Re: Judging Caroline Carter wrote: >> The majority of judging is done by IPMS (non-manufacturing!) members. << Which counts first.....do you get to judge if one was a judge before starting a business? By that standard, we would lose over half of our ship judges here in the US!! (from the head judge down I can think of 6 that are also in the industry .....dont just count manufacturers, also count the professional r*******hers who publish materials since they "manufacture" goods to be used by the modeller) >> Even for the prestigious (!) White Ensign Models Trophy, I allow the SIGS to do the judging, as I feel that if a WEM build gets it, that I COULD be accused of bias by the entrants.. << Is the WEM prize for the best WEM kit, or best RN kit or what, I have no idea what you are talking about here. If I were to sponsor the best Nautilus Models kit, I think I should certainly be allowed to decide what I, as the proprietor of Nautilus Models, think the best kit is. THere are different style of judging for different categories. One would not judge an airliner the same way one judges 1/48 Axis fighters....if so the plane with the perfect finish would never win due to realism, etc. My pet peeve this year was the catch-all category of "hypothetical" to include anything that never was, including sci-fi designs by Willy Ley (they were "serious" proposals not from a movie!!) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 27) From: James Corley Subject: Re: Judging Michael Czibovic wrote: >> The bottom line is that if the model placed because of overall better execution than the next one in line, fine. But don't try to defend the camouflage pattern or the colors used because of pride or ignorance. Using that as a criteria would be like awarding a trophy to a Lancaster bomber painted in a German dapple pattern based on finish. Judges SHOULD know better, that's why they're chosen as judges. << I remember hearing, In 97 & 98 (but not this year oddly enough) that accuracy was no longer the top-dog it used to be. The primary way to seperate the men from the boys was basic construction. Our meeting included the standard "straight masts and arms" talk as the easiest way to weed out the competition. This technique worked fine to get the categories down to a few models. (An unnamed team should have also checked the latitudinal alignment as well as the longitudinal alignment, but hey!) If it had come down to deciding first and second for the HORNET kit, then the camoflage probably would have been considered. The kit had some basic flaws as it was constructed. I was not on that judging team, but I did notice several items. One was a bulged flight deck just forward of the island due to a poorly fitted joint. Another was the extension of the rudder stripes onto the elevators. This is an example of a poorly executed paint scheme (decals in this case), not the near perfect misapplication of camoflage colors. I also wondered about the 5 F4Fs parked on the bow. Where these planes ever there while the ship was underway?? I've never seen such a photo, but they could have been there in SF, so I would not have counted that against the builder/kit. It is over, the kits have all gone home, with ot without their trophies. BTW, I was told in Orlando the 2001 show was in Chicago, 4-8July. Is it really going to Seattle as posted here?? (That was my bet, after a holiday weekend and in a more favorable location, IMO.) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 28) From: "Michael C. Smith" Subject: 1/700 scale aircraft decals; June '42 aircraft colors/CV-6 I am looking for some good US aircraft insignia, circa June 1942. I have two of the GMM sheet, but registration on both is off, and the decals are really too small for SBDs. Short of buying a printer and making my own, can anyone suggest any? Also, any suggestions on a commercially available blue gray for aircraft of that era? I have been using FS 35164 Intermediate Blue (Testors Model Master lately) and graying with a little for weathering for lack of anything better. Any suggestions? Also, does anyone know of any sources for Enterprise's arrangement or appearance in June 1942? I have already done a lot on this (actually I built the model seven years ago - I'm just updating & redetailing it) but I'm looking for any additional sources. Michael Smith Marshall, Texas -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 29) From: gjstein@mindspring.com Subject: American Civil War ships In addition to the "Thoroughbred" line of 1/600 metal ACW ships (which, by the way, are great) another source is "Peter Pig." These are 1/600 resin ACW kits. While clearly not reaching the level of "precision" possible in pewter, they are quite nice and, more importantly, supplement the Thoroughbred range. Thus, while I got the CSS Gaines, Morgan and Tennessee from Thoroughbred, the only source for the fourth ship in the CSS Mobile Bay fleet, the CSS Selma, was Peter Pig. There are about sixty (60) items in the line, including docks, fortifications, etc. Check out their web site ( I think the last ship illustrated is the CSS Selma) at: http://www.peterpig.demon.co.uk/ One US distributor is Brookhurst Hobbies. There may be others. Don't know about ordering directly from UK. One modeling note: I have found that Aeromaster "tire black" {a dark grey} is best for the ACW "black" hulls and Floquil "chain mail" is just enough metallic to for the iron/steel parts. "Gunmetal" of course for the cannons. Now all we need is those 1/600 scale 19th century etched brass sailors. (hint, hint Caroline). -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 30) From: "John Snyder" Subject: Re: Weathered Decks Whither weathered weather decks? What a great pair of photos! Now, if everyone will think back to the cited photos of WARSPITE in Raven & Roberts, and the notation that her decks appear dark (read "painted") in the photo taken at Bremerton. What does it do at Bremerton--a LOT? It rains! Now, granted that the photo in question shows a clear day (you can see the mountains in the distance). However, the routine comment about the weather when I lived in Seattle was, "If you don't like the weather, wait 15 minutes." And Bremerton gets even more than Seattle! I suspect (read: educated guess) that the photo in question shows her with decks still damp from the last rain. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 31) From: "Sean D. Hert" Subject: Newbie Question Hiya- This may seem like a real dumb question but- Are there any "tricks" to using photoetch? I am contemplating getting a set to detail my Tamiya 1/700 IJN Kumano- but my inexperience with P.E. is giving me second thoughts. Any help? Thanks in advance- Sean D. Hert popev@netwalk.com Webmeister, MBG Site: http://www.netwalk.com/~popev/bg/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 32) From: "John Snyder" Subject: Re: West Coast Nationals >> Uh John, As IPMS San Diego club president I can safely say we did not bid for the 2001 IPMS/US Nats. It was down to Seattle and Chicago. Mark << BUT, BUT.... Oh jeez, if you can't trust rumors from reputable sources, then.... ;^) Sorry 'bout that, Mark (and everyone else). After I heard the same thing from several folks, I took it as gospel. Pardon my typing, it's hard to reach around the leg whose foot is in my mouth.... John (chagrined) Snyder -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 33) From: "John Snyder" Subject: Re: IJN PC-102 ex USS Stewart USS STEWART (DD-224), a four-piper assigned to the Asiatic Fleet, having survived the ABDA debacle at Badoeng Strait, was in drydock in Soerabaja where she was damaged in a Japanese air raid. She rolled off her blocks; her crew attempted to destroy her before fleeing the city ahead of the Japanese. The Japanese managed to salvage her, refitted her with IJN armament, trunked her two forward funnels together, and operated her for the rest of the war in an ASW role. You're confusing her with DE-238, launched on November 22, 1942 by Brown Shipbuilding in Houston. Both were named after the same person, and obviously the Navy assigned the name to the DE after logically concluding that DD-224 had been lost in action. She was retaken by US forces at the end of the war, brought back to San Francisco, and subsequently expended as a target. Those are the facts I'm sure of. I also seem to recall reading somewhere that she may have had a role in sinking at least one US sub, and right now I'm recalling that it may have been HARDER; but I'll leave that to someone else to look up. John Snyder Snyder & Short Enterprises The Paint Guys -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 34) From: "John Snyder" Subject: Re: Picpost update Sorry Shane, it was the first day I DIDN'T wear my uniform. As for that photo Caroline has of me from last year--she still owes me! John Snyder P.S. Great shots of OBERON. I particularly liked the well-weathered shot, clearly showing a the Navy Blue (5-N) of her Measure 22 wearing through to expose the Sea Blue (5-S) of her earlier Measure 12. Note the differences in contrast between those colors and the Haze Gray (5-H) above. Keep those levels of contrast in mind when viewing other photos and trying to decide whether you're looking at 5-N or 5-S: there's a MUCH greater degree of contrast between 5-N and 5-H than between 5-S and 5-H! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 35) From: "Caroline Carter" Subject: WEM UPDATE/RUMOUR QUERY Hi Guys, Have updated some bits n bobs, including 1/350 NARROW SEAS kits.. please check with http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/white.ensign.models/news.htm for details. A load of photos have finally been added to the AIRSTRIKE 700 pages as well Now for a querette. Dave and I were looking forward to attending the Y2K Nationals in Dallas. However, I have heard a rumour that the show could be closed to the public for 2 of the show days. If this is going to be the case, it wouldn't be worth WEM travelling 5 or 6 thousand miles to stare at a bunch of other traders... I can't believe that any organiser could get away with this anyhow with a National IPMS event.. is there anyone out there (Rusty?) who can qualify or dispute the above, as we (and possibly others) would like to know WELL in advance now so that we can start planning or otherwise. Thanks! Caroline White Ensign Models -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tom Eisenhour Subject: IJN PC-102 ex USS Stewart Michael Smith wrote: >> Maybe I'm mistaken, but I thought Stewart was a DE - she appears to be one to me. Isn't she the ship that's one display in Galveston, Texas next to the sub Cavalla? If so, they might know something there (Seawolf Park, Galveston, Texas). << The DE-238, an Edsall-class, is at Galveston. Jay was referring to the earlier Stewart, DD-224, a Clemson-class four-stacker. The Stewart was captured by the Japanese and renamed Patrol Boat No. 102. For more info and a picture go to: http://metalab.unc.edu/hyperwar/USN/ships/DD/DD-224_Stewart.html Anyone know where Jay can find plans for a Clemson class DD? Tom Eisenhour Austin, TX -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 37) From: "Caroline Carter" Subject: Re: Judging from the British Perspective Peter Hall wrote: >> I totally agree there, its difficult for you to get away for a peek at the other displays, even the ones nearby, let alone go off judging for an hour or two. << Then John Snyder wrote: >> An hour or two??? Try 8 hours at Orlando, from the beginning of the Judge's Dinner at 6PM through to 2AM when we finally got out of the hall! << Judge's dinner? Judge's DINNER!! Hmph... perhaps we're going about things the wrong way over here..(the Brits were never ones for self-indulgence you know!!) Judging actually takes place over (I think) about 4 hours on Saturday afternoon.. effectively excluding anyone else from poring over the models (though you can peer thru the partitions at what's going on.... and IS solid judging by a large team of specialists drawn from all over the U.K. The ship section is smaller than at the US Nationals, although other categories, such as armour and aircraft, are far larger (due, I think to the large number of East-and West European entries, where armour is BIG business). Another point that interested me was the comments over cased models at the U.S. Nationals. Every year, damage has been sustained to people's models by careless folk.. people letting their kids run riot, people pointing at models and putting fingers through fine rigging in particular. People swinging handbags, cameras or day-sacks.. and so on (I sweat whilst thinking about twhat I've seen in the past!). Last year in the U.K. there was a ban on all bags in the display area for starters. However, ships are particularly vulnerable, due to the height and delicacy of their masts, their rigging etc (compared to, say a 1/35 armoured car which might have an aerial or 2 poking out the top, but is, essentially, a fairly low-profile solid "lump"). So in the U.K. many modellers choose to display their work in a case. This model or diorama gets displayed, and judged, along with all the others regardless. I was quite surprised to learn that a cased model is not judged at the U.S. Nationals. From my experience, all detail is visible through the glass, and, given the increased sophistication and time-consuming nature of the construction of an exact replica ship model, where upwards of 40 to 50 hours can be spent on rigging alone, the UK IPMS accepts that the punter is quite at rights to protect his or her investment of time and self by casing it. Caroline Carter White Ensign Models (where we've had 8 thunderstorms in the last 48 hours, and 6 inches of rain!) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 38) From: "Jeff Herne" Subject: Alive and well...and my camo input Many thanks to all who e-mailed me, I am back, albiet much slower, far more relaxed (not by choice), and considerably better hydrated. But back nonetheless.... Now, onto business... I am in the midst of writing none-other than a book on USN camo practices. I have to agree with everyone basically, because everyone has valid points in their arguments...(is this atypical of me or what??) When a Tiger tank is painted in olive drab, it's wrong, out and out, unless you're portraying a captured Tiger. A B-36 in Desert Pink is another example. Wrong. Painting the original USS Hornet in a dazzle, is wrong. Measure 12 Revised is non-standard scheme, there were no design sheets, but there were specific orders as to what colors go where. I can see 5-N replacing 5-S, that's speculation, we don't know which color she was wearing, but looking at photos of Hornet, it is obvious to see the contrast between the 3 colors on the hull and island. If it were an obscure ship, I would concede the error, but it is not. In fact, Vol 12, No. 4 IPMS Journal has an article, including color data, on the Hornet. While the color info is a bit dated, the design sheet is nevertheless accurate. Touching on Jon Warneke's point about color, we did a ton of work on USN colors, and John Snyder and Randy Short have easily done as much if not more. While I can argue 5-L vs 5-H, I cannot argue 5-O vs 5-N or 5-H vs 5-N. There is simply too much contrast. And...having done all of this work, and having Jon & Randy's Color chips readily available and advertised in most ship mags and web pages, I can understand why John Sheridan and John Snyder support the points of view they do...there is no lack of information or data out there. You can easily get all of the color info you need from a single Squadron Signal book, forget Camo 1 from Floating Drydock, chips, the IPMS Journal article, or any of the other pics of Hornet that are out there. I firmly believe, that because color shades carry weight in aircraft and armor categories, that they should be judged in ship categories as well. This is poses a problem for judges, because if ship camo was easy, I wouldn't need to write a book on it to clear up issues such as this one... :-) Again, many thanks to those who e-mailed their concerns, it was deeply appreciated. Jeff Herne "Flying slow and low, full flaps, gear down, looking for a 3 wire..." -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 39) From: KelDQ@aol.com Subject: USS Missouri - question about firing 16" guns I want to do a diorama of the Missouri firing a broadside blast from all 9 of her 16" guns. My question: Would any crewmen, anywhere on the ship, be outside during the blast, or would everybody be inside the ship? Kelly Quirk -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Les Case" Subject: Wanted to sell or trade 2nd-hand German Revell 1:720 Prinz Eugen, kit c.1985. In original box, but missing propellers. Otherwise complete. $6.00 US or best offer. 2nd-hand Otaki 1:800 Kitty Hawk, CV63. In original box, but missing motor, electrical connections, propellers and instructions. $10.00 US or best offer. I will consider trading for unbroken metal or plasic injection-molded 1:600 or 1:700 surface ship propellers. Les Case les_case@tdi.state.tx.us -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: AllenFW2@aol.com Subject: Models of HMS Hood Hello Everyone Frank Allen of the "Battle Cruiser Hood" web site here. First of all, we were recently named the official site of the Hood's actual crew, the HMS Hood Association. So, Hood finally has an official home on the world wide web! Secondly, as some of you may already know, we have a section within our site devoted strictly to scale models and miniatures of Hood. One of the subsections of this area is a model gallery. If any of you have built models of Hood (any manufacturer/any scale) and would like to show them off, please contact me...we'd love to post a photo (or two) of your work on the site. Frank Allen Editor, Battle Cruiser Hood (http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Workshop/2966/) Note: We're moving to "www.hmshood.com" sometime in August. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "Rob Mackie" Subject: Warship Update I've updated the Warship site at http://warship.simplenet.com with the following new items: Reviews of: WSW 1:700 German Battlecruiser SMS Lutzow 1916 WSW 1:700 Imperial Russian Navy battleship Petropavlosk 1914 Building the Classic Warships 1:350th USS Salem CA-139 by John Sheridan Building the Nichimo 1:200th IJN Battleship Yamato kit by David Turner Review of Warship Pictorial #4: USS Texas BB-35 from Classic Warships Publishing Added WSW/ B-Resina product page Rob Mackie Warship http://warship.simplenet.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: HDente@aol.com Subject: New items at Research in Scale Profile Morskie-Zara class--$14.00 Modelist Konstruktor (Russian) German Torpedo Boats of WW2--Has color profiles, plans, inboard profiles--$12.00 and Type VIIc U-Boats-Similar, color profiles include conning tower art details--$14.00. Modelkrak Victorian Japanese and Russian ships in stock-e-mail for prices. Commanders: Salem 1/700 scale--$45.00, 1/350 Nashville $169.00. Others at similar discount. Photoetch 10% off list-Flagship, White Ensign, Toms-VISA, M/C accepted Shipping $5.00 E-mail hdente@aol.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: Bill Gruner Subject: AD: Now In Stock! We now have the following items in stock: (1)Skywave S-14 Imperial Japanese Army Aircraft...1/700 plastic...Franks, Helens, Tojos, Tonys, Dinahs...NEW.....$15.00 (2)Hasegawa 1/700 Japanese Carrier ZUIHO...all new...$29.00 (3)Pitroad PC-17 Ships' Colors Series - 2-Bottle set for late war IJN aircraft carrier GREENs...set for $6.50 (4)Waveline WL-93 Imperial Japanese Navy Auxiliary Cruiser UKISHIMA MARU NEW...$49.00 (5) The Buckley Class Destroyer Escorts, by B. Franklin. USNI Press, 1999. Hardbound, 210 pp., thoroughly illustrated...NEW...Excellent for modelers...$35.00 (6) A Century Of French Cruisers, by Marine Editions, France...Hardbound, thoroughly illustrated, great for you tumblehome freaks...NEW....$55.00 NOTICE: We will be moving on August 20th to Roseburg, Oregon. We will not be able to take any orders after August 6, so please order early. Our next UPDATE will announce our new address, phone, etc. Use the old phone, address if you need to get ahold of us, as they will be on forwarding orders. Thanks, Bill Gruner Pacific Front Hobbies http://www.pacificfront.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume