Subject: SMML04/08/99VOL627 Date: Thu, 05 Aug 1999 20:38:54 +1000 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: Building order 2: Re: Judging colors in scale 3: New Judges Handbook and other improvements 4: 1/96th Scale Secretary Class Cutter 5: Night time judging 6: Re: Hornet Model, Keep it civil 7: Assembly Question 8: Re: USS Stewart 9: AR,AD,AS 10: Re: USS Stewart 11: HMS Warspite weathered decks 12: Re: Blast Bags 13: Iron Duke blast bags and other gasbagging 14: Colour (or color) 15: Re: railing/masking/painting order and Warspite decks 16: Re: judging 17: Re: West Coast IPMS/US Nationals 18: Philly area help, please! 19: Carrituck/Norton Sound follow-up 20: Re: Submarine torpedo 21: Judging 22: Re: Missouri Broadsides 23: IPMS Nationals -Australian style?? 24: USS Missouri - question about firing 16" guns 25: Mike Smith's 1/700 GMM A/C Decals 26: Re: Rumor qurey 27: USS Missouri broadside 28: Scale model UK 29: USS Hornet Answer 30: Enterprise and F4Us 31: Re: Judging -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: CV-6 Book 2: WEM Update 3: PT Dockyard 1/600 resin Coastal Craft 4: AIRCRAFT CARRIER CH. DE GAULLE -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS Hi gang, Well after 20 days of rest, I'm now "back" ondeck. Although, I'm not quite yet 100%, it's getting there. I'd like to take this opportunity to thank Mistress Lorna for her sterling work & for starting what seems to be the most participated thread in SMML. She has been heard to mutter something today about Furious, Tondern & the lack of decent WW1 ships in the proper scales ;-)). To all those SMMLies who sent their well wishes, thanks very much, it was really appreciated. Regards, Shane - The YOUNG Crip ;-) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "foeth" Subject: Re: Building order I would not attach railings before painting the superstructure if you have different colour on your decks. Else, you just spray everything in one time (Like the Yamato). I basicly attach most PE which is not hampering painting, then glue the rest afterwards. I also attach railing inside-out, meaning that I don't attach railing on the hull or superstructure deck 1, before anything above these decks is not finished (Save rigging etc). I always slam the bow of my model into my modeling table once in a while, no matter how carefull I handle it, as I tend to forget the bow when concentrated. I always demolish railing when handling the model so I learned the hard way: attach railing on the hull last! Some other modelers might prefer a different way, but I suppose I'm clumsy on that part. I try to leave as many subassemblies as possible, with the railing cut and bent into shape. Is spray the parts and railing, weather the lot and only then attach the small PE. I correct some paintflakes coming of the PE and then give it a varnish layer, which does miracles for the gluespots. Really, a must for a good finish. I also putty fully painted parts afterwards, such as two prepainted decks which need a seemless seem at a certain bulkhead (Is there such a thing?) but which I could not putty before, as I needed to have these parts separate. This requires some masking of certain areas. I usually spray that newly puttied are from "below" and not from the "top", to save my painted decks. Railing tends to deflect the paintstream, giving a "sparkle" effect on the decks anyway, so that needs to be masked as well. This can really ruin a lot of work. With oil-based, they can sometimes be removed, but the acrylics I use seem to be dry before the hit the part. If spray Tamiya acrylics, and I use Humbroll for "touching up". If you use a wash, be sure to leave a varnish layer, else your touched up regions will appear sparkling and practically shouting "Bad model, bad model!" (Alas, also learned the hard way) So: masking, painting, PE, subassembling, then more masking painting and PE and painting etc. As for the painting order, I like to do horizonal surfaces first, then the verticals (except perhaps the barbettes). Masking a deck is easier than masking the odd shaped bulkheads. Small detail can be coloured with a brush. This is a reason I like my decks separate, it saves a lot of masking. Camouflage patterns can make the masking particularly difficult sometimes, forcing a seemingly impossible order of painting and masking, but that is part of the challenge. Foeth -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: Judging colors in scale >> How do you judges account for the lightening of colors with the increase in scale? For example, a correct model of a USS Hornet in 1:350 would be darker than a 1:700 Hornet, which would be darker than a 1:1200 Hornet. If the full-scale color was a dark gray, would the builder be penalized if he adjusted for the scale effect by using a light gray? << You finally got it!!! That is exactly why we do not put color accuracy that high on the scale when judging. Who can determine what shade at a set scale? I do however look at the paint "scheme". Correct markings are a must. Rusty White IPMS Head ships judge -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: New Judges Handbook and other improvements I have received a number of suggestions to improve the way we judge ships at the Nationals. The good news is that the Contest Committee is going to literally rewrite the IPMS Judges Hand book. I already have a number of additions to the ships chapter. I may add some basics on judging color which I have found here to be in need of definition. What I will ask Aris Pappas to do next year is: 1) Pass out the new Judges handbook to all OJT's (On the Job Training judges). 2) To hold a meeting much like the "What Judges Look For" seminar to go over with every one that attends just what judges should be looking for in their respective categories This meeting will be moderated by Aris (Head A/C judge and Contest Committee Chairman) and will include the head judges from all respective categories. I would prefer it be mandatory to all judges every year. At that meeting (like with the seminar) any questions from the judges or the public can be answered by the head judges. Still listening. Rusty White IPMS Head Ship judge -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: "Francis X. Kranick, Jr." Subject: 1/96th Scale Secretary Class Cutter Hello to all on my first post to the SMML. I recently received a copy of the Revell Taney (thanks again, Ken) but since my interests always gravitated towards larger subjects, a 1/300th scale model of this ship just won't do it for me. Scale Shipyard (I'm told) offers a 1/96th scale hull for this class but I've not yet heard back from them. I'm putting together the project in my mind and am again considering the Taney in her WWII iteration. A tour of the ship last year hooked me and seeing a photo of her with her awnings fixed set that hook - a very pretty ship... I suppose what I'm looking for is a listing of suppliers, outlets or others who could offer some insight into the project. Has anyone else built, perhaps not this particular ship but another similarly-sized project? Is there anything of which I should be especially aware? Thanks for any help you folks could offer in this. Frank Kranick IPMS/USA 20352 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Night time judging For the first time this year at the Nats we experimented with night time judging. Rather than wake up at dark 30 (5:00 am) on Sat, we started judging at 8:00 PM after a GREAT dinner. This way the public is not turned away on Saturday (the biggest day of the Nats) during regular hours. It also frees up the judges to go on a tour or two since we have the whole day Saturday free. Most importantly, judging at night gives the host club a full day to put together a slide show or whatever they plan to do. The time allowed for the Santa Clara group was only four hours last year. I'm certain that was a major factor in the problems with the computer slide show. The folks from Orlando did the same thing and pulled it off with almost no missarranged slides. The Dallas group will also have night time judging next and I'm all for it. Rusty White IPMS Head Ship judge -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: "Sheridan, John" Subject: Re: Hornet Model, Keep it civil >> I realize everyone's passions for a correct paint scheme. However, I know the fella that built that model and he does read SMML. So please, restrict your criticism to color shade on a general level. This modeler is very proud of that model as well he should be. I just noticed this discussion is getting hotter by the day. << Rusty, This conversation has nothing, repeat; nothing to do with paint shade. I made it very clear in my previous comments that the model is painted *incorrectly*. The paint colors that were used were pretty accurate colors IMO, it's just they were applied to the model incorrectly. The construction of the model itself was very well done; If the paint scheme was applied properly, I would have not been surprised if it had won best of show. And before I am bombarded with "well how do you know"'s, Let me just say that USS Hornet at around the time frame of the Doolittle raid (Which is when the model is depicted) had been very documented and the camouflage scheme (MS 12 modified) is clearly obvious if you look at photos taken of the ship at that time. John Sheridan Visit my USN Ship Camo site at: http://home.earthlink.net/~jrsheridan/ I am not a Member of the Lumber Cartel (tinlc) and I am not Unit #631 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: "Sheridan, John" Subject: Assembly Question >> I'm sure this is a less than educated question, but I'll ask anyway. I have recently embarked on my first resin ship model; I'm going to build it full hull which leads to the aforementioned question. What typically do you experienced builders use to join the two hull halves? Is CA to be used or some form of slow drying epoxy, or what? << You can read about how I assemble hull halves on my construction article of the USS Salem I did in the latest update of WARSHIP. The URL is: http://warship.simplenet.com/Salem%20Sheridan.htm John Sheridan Visit my USN Ship Camo site at: http://home.earthlink.net/~jrsheridan/ I am not a Member of the Lumber Cartel (tinlc) and I am not Unit #631 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: Jay Schantzen Subject: Re: USS Stewart Thanks to all who have been responding to my request for help on the IJN'ized USS Stewart. I have plans of the Clemson class as built, and am in the process of building a 1/96 Model of DD-187 USS Dahlgren. I thought building the Stewart as IJN PC-102 would make an interesting contrast. Thanks again, Jay J. Schantzen MD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: "lcp9" Subject: AR,AD,AS Regarding the discussion of the Vulcan & Dixie /Fulton kits, they are 2 seperate kits reflecting the differences (with the exception of the sheer) described in this space yesterday. However I must point out that the Fulton followed the same hull form as the Vulcan class. Look at Floating Drydock photos AS 11x 5,6 & 7. They are dated 1944 and show Fulton with that same "down by the stern" look as the Vulcan class AR's. Since I lack similar photos of the AD's, the Dixie / Fulton kit hull may have an incorrect sheer for an AD. If anyone has definitive photos of this, I'd pay the postage & cost of photocopying them. David Angelo "And thats all I have to say about that" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: "lcp9" Subject: Re: USS Stewart Warships of the I. J. N. gives P102's armament as 2x 3 in AA & 2 x 13 mm AA. There is a couple of really bad photos of her being used for target pratice on page 73 of Destroyers - 60 Years. They show a some markings at the bow, might be 120, I can't say for sure, a white? square with red meatball? on side of the midships deck house, a small platfofm in front of the bridge, at the 01 level, the standard Japanese light tripod foremast in the same position as the origonal foremast, #1 funnel trunked into #2 funnel & a short pole mainmast. The searchlight is raised level with the funnels. The rest of the ship appears unchanged. David Angelo -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: "chenyangzhang" Subject: HMS Warspite weathered decks Hi John The question of rain doesn't really come up in this case. For such a consistency in shade to arise there would have had to have been quite heavy and recent rain. This would have obviously stopped and things begun to dry out. Evidence of this would be found in any flat surfaces that were visible in the photo. Luckily there are a lot and these show no evidence of wet, just dry surfaces. If we examine the dock roads etc there is also no evidence of recent rain. Despite appearing level no expanse of flat ground really is and so one would expect to see puddles. There are no puddles in the photo showing that it has been dry for a certain amount of time. Turning to the Warspite herself and what immediately strikes one is the consistency of the shade. It is important to remember that on large surface areas water drys at different rates so you get a splotchy pattern. There is no evidence of this at all. This would as I said not rule out heavy and recent rain but there is no evidence of this. A final point concerns the platform (or lip) in front of the six inch casemates. This is of the same colour as the deck. Metal and wood have different drying out rates and so the shade would appear different. The only conclusion is that despite it raining a lot in Bremeton this is not the case in the picture and it actually shows Warspite with a painted or stained deck. Chris Langtree -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: Fritz Koopman Subject: Re: Blast Bags Hi David: Well, there are about as many ways to do this as there are modelers. I have yet to build a ship requiring bags in that large a scale, but for my smaller scale stuff I use: chewing gum. The stuff molds pretty well, and through observation of the undersides of a myriad of school tables, the stuff never decomposes once it gets hard. After ten years, my older models, that I first used this method with, still look exactly the same as when constructed. Simply chew the stuff for about 7 to 10 minutes take a small piece, and goosh it in there. Use an exacto knife to push it around to shape, and trim off excess. Let it sit for about a day and a half for it to get stiff, and then paint GENTLY with an oil based paint (this will help preserve it, and ultimately dry it). If you're too rough, the brush may reshape things on you. If this happens, simply use the knife to remold it again. Once painted the gum will stay softish for about a week or two depending on the heat. Simply, dont touch it once your done, it will stay, and eventually harden. There is a small amont of shrinkage, but not enough to cause any gaps. Brands used: Trident/Dentyne (hey why not clean your teeth while modeling), and DoubleMint. A second method that I've heard about, and will try on my first larger scale ship, is alluminum foil and white glue. It involves cutting a pattern out of alluminum foil, installing it on the barrel in a similar way to a real blast bag, and then holding it in place with white glue. Then paint and weather to suit. I have no idea how well this method works. Good Luck. Fritz Koopman -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: "Matt Melchert" Subject: Iron Duke blast bags and other gasbagging Hi all, I've greatly enjoyed reading SMML in the last few weeks. As I mentioned in earlier posts, I'm currently working on Airfix's 1/600 Iron Duke. I attempted to add blast bags to the turrets by using aluminium foil fixed with white glue. It didn't work very well! Small pieces of foil are quite fiddly to work with, and I couldn't get it to wrap tightly enough around the gun barrels. So don't use this method! :) I'd like to do it in in an early (pre-Jutland) configuration, and as many of you know the Airfix kit is of late and/or indeterminate vintage. I'm basing my modifications to the kit on the illustrations in Tony Gibbons' book on battleships, which proports to show Iron Duke in a 1914 configuration. Questions: How accurate are those drawings? The drawing shows a smallish, cylendrical structure on top of the tripod, while the kit has a larger, more complex structure. What's the best way to scratcbuild an early control top? Other drawings I've seen seem to indicate that the tripod mast was somewhat higher at first than later fittings. Is this true? Forgive my ignorance on this one; I'm still learning about ships, but Iron Duke has quite a tall mast with several cross spars (terminology?) that rises significantly higher than the tripod mast and looks oddly reminiscent of the mast of a sailing ship. What is this called, and what is it used for? Tony Gibbons' drawing shows this mast rising almost as high again as the top of the tripod mast, with (from memory) three cross spars. The kit's mast is considerably shorter, with only one cross spar. Which is correct for the early Iron Duke? TIA, Matt Melchert The Waikato Polytechnic Hamilton, New Zealand -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: "John Rule" Subject: Colour (or color) Not being a member of IPMS and having read the recent debate in SMML I feel infinitely qualified to suggest that the 2001 Nationals, wherever they may be held, should be in black and white or at least monochrome. I was surprised to read that the "public" are not encouraged to attend the shows. Surely the object is to attract new faces into the hobby. On another topic. A friend lent me a photo which he took I believe from HMS Malaya during the war (WWII). The subject in the photo is a destroyer running alongside in a moderate sea, the starboard side of the destroyer being in full view. The destroyer has the pennant number I 99 and is painted in an admiralty disruptive scheme. I believe the destroyer is HMCS Chaudiere (ex. HMS Hero). My question is when did the pennant number change from H 99 to I 99 and why? There is another photo showing the port side of this destroyer in British Fleet and Escort Destroyers Vol. One by H.T.Lenton which looks to have been later as the B gun has been replaced by a Hedgehog. In this second photo the ship has the pennant number H 99. This leads me to think that the photo I have may have been taken while the ship was still HMS Hero. Can anybody help? Thank You Lorna for a job well done!!!!! Welcome back (no pun intended) Shane. Who fixes the archives? They are acting up. Welcome back Jeff. Maybe you will learn that you can't let your hobbies divert you from other pursuits.........like serious drinking!!!!!! John Rule Hi John, In regards to the archives, when I get a chance I'll be trying to fix it up. In the meantime, you can access the archives by going to the root directory at: http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/4712/volumes/ then right click on the vol number & save to your hard drive. Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: "Caroline Carter" Subject: Re: railing/masking/painting order and Warspite decks Hi Ken, >> order to minimize glue spots and the like, that perhaps the best way would be to attach PE railings before painting, but I can imagine this making masking very awkward, especially with the railings on the upper decks. Do most of you attach the railings after painting and then paint them? Paint them off-model then attach? << First off there is no set method.. each to their own. However, this is our preferred sequence, and although it can be adapted to an individual's preferences, it works well. First off, we suggest painting your model.. any p/etch sub-assemblies such as platform supports etc, should be painted off the model.. 3-D structures such as cranes should be painted before assembly, and touched up after folding and glueing... suggest that you work from inside out re painting, also as far as rail, and other p/etch attachment is concerned.. due to increased likelihood of damage if you work from outside-in.. Did that make sense...?! With rails, cut/trim a length of rail, using dividers to obtain the correct length, and shape as neccessary.. prime and paint (recommend painting stanchions in a lighter colour than the rails to obtain a more realistic appearance). Attach painted rail to deck edge with spurnwater (use tiny sprue-sized drops to "spot-weld" at 1cm intervals, finishing with a very thin "seam" of glue along the inside edge). You can use an accelerator if your CA glue seems to take a while to go off..be aware that it can stain matt paint though.. Once etch is in in place, you may have to touch up with paint here and there.. Use a flat finish coating such as Protec Matt, on the whole model, to hide any glue-marks you might have.. if you were careful, you shouldn't have any.. I can't stick seeing shiny bits on small scale scale ship models anyhow! >> Also, as I run through the sequence mentally, it would seem that one would paint the hull and superstructures first, and then mask off the vertical surfaces while painting the decks. Is this correct? << Again, each to their own.. this, to me, is the logical sequence, but vertical services ARE more difficult to mask.. hand-painting IS perfectly possible with care, even in 1/700 scale.. anyhow, I think you'll get a flood of suggestions on this whole question Ken, and you'll probably end up horribly undecided, but that's the fun of SMML! To follow on to the discussion re. Warspite's decks.. we have it from a (totally with-it) ex-crew-member, as of this afternoon.. that in 1943, her decks were NOT painted. So.. Alan Raven was right.. One could always argue that memories aren't always that good, but these days, memories are as often as close to "original research" as we will get! Also, having sailed on a couple of beautifully teak-decked Sail Traning Ships, I can vouch for the fact that teak weathers to a light mousey-beige grey, and does go quite a dark brown when wet... I should know..I scrubbed the buggers from end-to-end (and I've got a stack of colour pics to prove it as well.. coo..Didn't I look young in 1988!!). Also, thanks to Lorna for the magnificent deputisation.. maybe she might be inspired to build a WWI ship model??? Numbers of posts have certainly soared in Shane's absence.. however, I'm sure we'll all keep the momentum going at this level... Welcome back to the Old Crip anyway!! Cheers, Caroline C. White Ensign Models Hi Caroline, Are you trying to say that people prefer Lorna to me, eh. Well, can't argue too much with that. But that doesn't mean the number of posts can fall away, now that I'm "back". Shane - The YOUNG Crip thank you very much :->> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: Bruce Burden Subject: Re: judging >> My problem lay in the fact that, as John pointed out, the model was painted incorrectly for the USN camouflage measure that it was purported to represent: Measure 12 (modified). << I am not going to argue with John and John that the colors of the model in question were wrong. However, as a basic refresher in IPMS/USA Judging Standards, I refer you to the IPMS/USA Judges Handbook. Color is simply not a factor in judging. >> It's something that would be judged as incorrect in aircraft or armor, so why not in ships? << No, John, as an armor judge, colors are not considered in the judging of armor (nor, I trust, aircraft). The reason is simple. Nobody knows everything about every model they might be asked to judge. I don't remember what other models were in the category with the Hornet, but lets say that a Soviet/Russian/etc naval vessel was entered in the category. Are you prepared to authoratively state the colors of said vessel are accurate? What about colors for an Argentinian navy ship? At some point, you will encounter a model that you can't speak from an authorative position about the colors. Now what? Do you accept the colors are correct? If you do, you are not being fair to the other models that you noted have color problems. And that is the problem with judging the "accuracy" of ANY model - you _will_ penalize the models you are most familiar with, while letting potential problems on models you are not familiar with slide by. That isn't fair to your favorite subjects, is it? Now, like it or not, that is the way IPMS/USA judges models at the national convention (or they should be judged). I have been involved with many discussions on IPMS/USA judging, and don't want to open that can of worms here, but I did want to point out the official stance of IPMS/USA on color judging, and the reason why "accuracy" isn't a judging criteria, whether it be accuracy of shape, equipment or color. Bruce -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: Bruce Burden Subject: Re: West Coast IPMS/US Nationals >> From: "Tom & Carolyn Harrison" Would someone from the E-Board of the IPMS(USA) explain (in detail) how Chicago was or may be awarded the 2001 Western Region Nationals? << I am not on the E-board, but I did attend the business meeting, and this is what I heard: 1) The Western Regional Coordinators reported to Mike Brinkman(sp?) that nobody in the Western area was interested in bidding the 2001 IPMS USA Nationals. Nor had Mike received any bids or responses to his bid request. 2) At that point, Mike had a problem, as the Constitution states that there will a) be a yearly contest, and that b) it will rotate through the country. So, Mike decided that the only way to handle this was to invite bids from the last 3 unsuccessful bidders for past US Nationals. That meant, in order, Oklahoma City (lost to Dallas), Washington (lost to Orlando), nobody bid against Santa Clara, and Chicago (who lost to Columbus). 3) AFTER the bid deadline, Seattle indicated they wished to bid for the 2001 US Nationals. Mike allowed them to bid, despite their late entry into the arena. 4) At the start of the presentation, Mike stated the above, and made it clear that Seattle and Chicago were on equal footing, that neither would be penalized for being in the "wrong" region or for submitting a late bid. >> If it's true that the Selection Committee at Orlando selected Seattle as the site for the 2001 US Nationals, how can the E-Board override this selection? If they can, why have a selection committee at all. << I am not sure what you mean by "a Selection Committee". I understand that one of the things changed after the Dallas/OKC debacle at Santa Clara is all bids have to be submitted earlier, so the E-board may study the packages in more detail, and have more time (than simply the bid meeting) to consider the bids and formulate questions. At the end of the business meeting at Orlando, the bids were presented to the E-board, and at the conclusion of that, which was open to IPMS(US) members, the room was closed so the E-board could deliberate which bid to accept. To my knowledge, no bid is "pre-approved" prior to the bid presentation, so I think you are off base saying that Seattle was "pre-approved". My understanding is that the E-board does much more that merely "rebber stamp" some other committees decision. However, Rusty, being involved with the 2000 bid process certainly has a more detailed understanding of the process than I care to have. :-) Bruce -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: Bruce Burden Subject: Philly area help, please! Hi folks, I need some help from somebody in the Philadelphia area. It is my understanding that the plans for the Advanced Base, Sectional Dock (ABSD) were (dare I hope still are) located at the Federal Records Center - Annex in Philly. These plans were there as of 1995, and I hope somebody will be willing to verify they are still there, and can get some copies made of the plans, and, if they have the facilities, film made of the photos of ABSD as well. I was told there were several interesting sequences of the pontoons clearing the Panama Canal. As an incentive, I understand the complete set of CA-32 (Brooklyn?) plans were also located at the Annex in Philly. The Record Group is 19, Bureau of Ships. Thanks, Bruce -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: Bruce Burden Subject: Carrituck/Norton Sound follow-up Hi folks, As a follow up from a couple of months ago, I have verified that the aft deck (seaplane handling deck) of the Carrituck class seaplane tenders was, indeed, wooden. However, there were some very visible lines on the aft deck. I think (and I stress think) that these were aircraft tie downs, but I need to look at the plans to be sure. Bruce -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: Ives100@aol.com Subject: Re: Submarine torpedo >> As nobody answered Mark Doremus' query about the "torpedo-on-the-beach incident" I'll dare, with Mr. Dougherty and other submariners' permission: E.L. Beach, in his book "Submarine!" attributes such exploit to USS Seawolf when in Nov, 3, 1942 and under F.B. Warder's command, was investigating "in live" the failures of US torpedoes against the Sagami Maru in Davao, Philippines. Another story from that book which ever caught me, and present also in the movie, is that of "toilet paper- item unknown" It serves me back on the office to demonstrate to my mates that bureaucracy is universal ( I know: I'm part of it!). << I did remember the story, but not the details of where to find it. Good call. BTW, for those who are interested, Capt Beach has just written a semi-autobiographical book entitled "Salt and Steel: Reflections of a Submariner". I urge you all to get a copy. It is NOT just about submarines, but one man's heartfelt journey through a Naval career. Capt. Beach served on submarines in WWII, was President Eisenhower's Naval Aide and commanded the USS Triton "Around the World Submerged". He has wonderful first hand stories of Admiral Nimitz, Rickover, and not so wonderful stories of Naval politics. Capt Beach's integrity, humanity, and humor come through in this book that belongs on the shelf of everyone interested in Naval History. On a personal note, I have corresponded with Capt Beach in the past. As many of you know, I am involved in the Pearl Harbor Diorama project, building, along with other SubCommittee members (including a fresh recruit!) the Sub Base in Jan. 1944. Through the courtesy of Naval submarine historian and artist Jim Christley (He did the drawings in the Friedman books on US Submarines), I obtained a list of the US Subs in port at Pearl in January. I was delighted to find that on the day, the USS Trigger departed for a war patrol with Dusty Dornin in command. We will depict this departure in the diroama with figures of both the captain and exec. officer on the bridge. That executive officer was Edward Beach. So, not only will members of the SubCommittee build this part of the diorama, we will also have one of our most illustrious members IN the diorama. Tom Dougherty -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 21) From: Marc Flake Subject: Judging I'll cast my vote for judging construction first and colors second. Obviously, a desert pink warship should be disqualified, but an educated guess at simulating a non-standard camoflage scheme shouldn't be penalized. What is important here is what ship model was the Hornet being compared to? The Hornet may have had problems, but were they less serous than the problems of the next ship down the line? I'd also like to say a word about Ms 12 (Mod.) This is the most confusing of the US Navy's measues in WW II. I know I messed up my Vincennes by putting Haze Gray and Sea Blue on the hull and Ocean Gray and Haze Gray on the superstructure (I airbrushed the tops light gray). Why did I do this. At the time of construction, I had read some material that indicated that there were certain color contrasts that were required. One requirement was that Ocean Gray should never be used on Sea Blue. Mike Quay called my attention to this mistake at the IPMS North Central Texas Regionals and I have repainted the Vincennes. But, she's not in strict Ms 12 (Mod.). From looking at photographic evidence, it appears that the hull colors and the superstructure colors are the same. So she's Ocean Gray and Sea Blue top and bottom (though she still carries Light Gray tops). As an aside, I seem to remember a certain photo of a certain German Warship that showed a lighter superstructure compared to its hull. The consensus was that it was a trick of light--that she was the same shade top to bottom. And to think, only a few years ago I thought all ships were painted "Battleship Gray." Marc Flake -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 22) From: Marc Flake Subject: Re: Missouri Broadsides I have a friend -- a reporter who steamed with the Mighty Mo from San Diego to Japan. What an assignment! At one point in the cruise, he stood on deck during the firing of the big guns and described to me what it was like. Just before the fire comes out of the muzzle, he said, all the air just disappears, like the gun is breathing it in. The heat of the flash washes over you while the sound of the blast hits you like a giant fist. I asked him if he saw the projectiles. He just laughed and shook his head. Marc Flake -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 23) From: "Kevin Surjan" Subject: IPMS Nationals -Australian style?? This may be a silly question that's directed to all the Aussie SMML out there, but with all this talk about IPMS Nationals in the US and UK do we have anything like this here in Australia? Regards, Kevin Surjan Perth, Western Australia Hi Kevin, Well, since IPMS doesn't have quite the same hold in Aus as overseas, there isn't a "nats" as such. But there are usually state run events, which are as follows: Queensland Model Hobbies & Expo (QMHE) - This event gets approx 4000 people thru the doors & is held later on this month on the 21-22nd August. According to fellow SMMLie Shane Weir, who is on the QMHE Steering Committee, it's a great event & all are welcome. It is run by the Brisbane modelling clubs. By contrast, NSW's version is the NSW & ACT Challenge Shield which is only open to NSW & ACT club members & until this year when APMA ran it, was NOT open to the public at all. We managed to be able to invite the public in as spectators, but that was it. Because of the format, I firmly believe that this event is now in doubt for the future. It being a single day event, doesn't help it much. The decision on this event is being made later on this month. Hobby Expo in Melbourne is another one. This is run by IPMS(Australia) & is an open event. It's run early in the year at the same time as the Melbourne Moomba festival & the Australian GP. By all accounts, not a bad show. Regards, Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 24) From: the Legend of LAX Subject: USS Missouri - question about firing 16" guns >> I want to do a diorama of the Missouri firing a broadside blast from all 9 of her 16" guns. My question: Would any crewmen, anywhere on the ship, be outside during the blast, or would everybody be inside the ship? << Sure, depending on the C.O. It was a quite common occurrence. I was fortunate enough to have been topside for a full broadside of the New Jersey during some of her sea trials. Not only all 16" guns, but also all 5" guns as well. Dale G Elhardt Lakewood Ca "Everything has an end, but the sausage has two" http://home.att.net/~laxet/LAX.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 25) From: Loren Perry Subject: Mike Smith's 1/700 GMM A/C Decals To Mike Smith - I don't know if you have the old GMM 1/700 Aircraft Insignia Decals or the recently released improved version. The design is the same but I had the new batch printed at Micro-Scale decals and the registration is vastly superior to the old. The film is also thinner. If you'll give me your mailing address, I'll send to you at no cost two new sheets. This won't solve your SBD size problem, but at least you'll have state-of-the-art 1/700 aircraft decals for all the other sizes. Loren Perry/GMM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 26) From: cwjerden Subject: Re: Rumor qurey Howdy folks. Per Caroline's qurey on the Y2K nats in Dallas, Well that has been dis-"cussed". I'am a member of the Ft.Worth club 30 miles west of "Big D". We have a few members that are also in the Dallas club. It was reported to us that the Dallas group was considering making the first two days of the show for IPMS members ONLY! Of course there would be a IPMS membership sign up booth at the front door... Well you can see the implication. Our local prez Skip Rodgers asked our membership (from which the "Big D" club is expecting alot of volunteer labor) What we thought about that "Idea". After a long moment of stunned silince we has a resonding and unanimous NO(!) vote. Heck most of our own club members couldn't get in! We in Ft.Worth feel that Nationals MUST be about MODELING and any other agenda comes second. One of our members said he would put the "Ideal" on the "rec scale" list and this must be your rumor source. To say the least it was not highly thought of there. Fear not, we the members of the Ft. Worth club will rally VERY hard to not let this stupid ideal fly (our antiaircraft batteries are standing by). I will strive to keep this list informed on this matter. I'll get the news to you as soon as any information comes to me. So please dear Caroline (and all the rest of you too)come on to Texas and enjoy our hospitality. Ya'll won't be sorry ya did. Maybe we can get together for a spell and get lunch or something. More news as it is available, Charles J. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 27) From: "Morley, James (London)" Subject: USS Missouri broadside I stand ready to be corrected, but my understanding is that under normal circumstances (ie when not posing for US Navy photographs), Iowa class ships would not fire an exactly simultaneous 9 gun broadside, but the firing sequence would instead be slightly staggered to avoid excessive jarring to the turret casings and the hull. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 28) From: "Luis Verissimo" Subject: Scale model UK Hi all, Recently I've been in the UK. In Canterbury Armed Forces Office I've seen a nice 1/72 model of a modern RN vessel complete with a Lynx helo. By chance, does any of the listees knows more about this model ? Anyone knows where I can find a hull/fittings for such a project ? Thanxs Luis -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 29) From: "Sheridan, John" Subject: USS Hornet Answer FYI, I got my hands on the BWN USS Hornet instructions and checked the painting diagrams. The painting diagram depicts the correct colors and aplication for CV-8 USS Hornet in early 1942. John Sheridan Visit my USN Ship Camo site at: http://home.earthlink.net/~jrsheridan/ I am not a Member of the Lumber Cartel (tinlc) and I am not Unit #631 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 30) From: "Satin, Michael N. (SHEP)" Subject: Enterprise and F4Us Morning everyone (or at least it is here in Colorado), Today's questions have to do with CV-6. First, does anyone know what color the hanger deck was. I know the bulkheads and overheads were white, but what color was the actual deck? Next, Corsairs. During the early 1944 period that the BWN model represents, Enterprise carried a few (4?) F4U-2 night Corsairs. Does anyone know of any 1/350 models of the F4U out there? I know the F4U-2 was essentially a bird-cage canopy, but I figure I can modify a later model Corsair easier than scratch build one. Thanks for the help! Michael -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 31) From: Shane Subject: Re: Judging Hi all, I've been reading this thread with interest. Esp, on how O/S clubs judge their event & on what criterea. APMA, on the other hand, revamped their judging rules last year. We went, in regards to accuracy, to judge the models on "reference supplied". This puts the onus back on the modeller to prove accuracy & not the judge. This can consist of just the instruction, etc. The downside of course is that the modeller may have used an inaccurate reference, but if she/he's modified the kit according to that, well he's marked for doing so. It's then up to the judges/fellow members, afterwards to gently prod them to the better refs(if known), if the modeller wants it. Basics will always come first, followed by difficulty(hard to judge at times) & then accuracy. While it may not be perfect, it seems to be popular & works well. As we had more models entered since the introduction of this system. Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Steve Singlar Subject: CV-6 Book Check out CV-6.org the Enterprise web site. Under the book section is listed the latest Enterprise book. U.S.S. Enterprise (CV-6) History by Philip A. St. John Hardback, 144 pages / Published 1997 Suggested Price: $44.95 Developed with the assistance of the Enterprise Association, features a full history of Enterprise, many, many photographs, and over 60 pages of personal memories by men who actually served in Enterprise. There are no line drawings or color photos. What makes this book interesting are the personal stories. There are several photos I have not seen before. Part of the proceeds from the sale go to the CV-6 association. Steve Singlar Pelham, NH -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Caroline Carter" Subject: WEM Update OK Guys.. Sorry about delays on WEM K 724 1/700 HMS Jervis, 1/700 UP launchers etc, etc, Mary Roses, US Dockyard Mateys etc (yep, we did that Caboose Loren!) but MDC are fighting fiery temperatures up there in Derbyshire and have suspended our casting until temps get back down from the humid 90's to the normal (i.e. soggy) 60's. Some new 1/700 planes have just arrived today though from MDC... PRICES IN POUNDS AND DOLLAR PRICES IN BRACKETS. U.K./EU add VAT at 17.5%. Kudos to Brian Fawcett for some stunning pattern work! We have a load more on the way as well. WEM AS 7157 1/700 FIAT CR42 FALCO (5-in-a-bag) They've even got the spatted wheels!! 2.95 ($4.57) WEM AS 7218 MIRAGE F1 (x3) 2.95 ($4.57) WEM AS 7139 SUPER ETENDARD (x3) 2.95 ($4.57) WEM AS 7220 MD 500 (LOACH)/CAYUSE (STILL AWAIT ETCHED BRASS SETS) x5 4.22 ($6.54) WEM AS 7223 DAUPHINS (STILL AWAIT ETCHED BRASS SETS) x 5 4.22 ($6.54) WEM AS 7217 MIRAGE IV x 3 2.95 ($4.57) WEM AS 7171 PUMAS (STILL AWAIT ETCHED BRASS SETS) x 5 4.22 ($6.54) WEM AS 7221 KIOWA/BELL JET-RANGER (STILL AWAIT ETCHED BRASS SETS) x 5 4.22 ($6.54) WEM AS 7127 SEA DRAGONS (x2) 4.22 ($6.54) WEM AS 7170 MIRAGE V x 3 2.95 ($4.57) Shipped post free worldwide of course! Don't forget.. WEM PE 715 1/700 Photoetched Fixed Wing aircraft parts for props, interplane struts, machine guns and more etc 3.36 ($5.36) Cheers! Caroline Carter WEM http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/white.ensign.models -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: d gregory Subject: PT Dockyard 1/600 resin Coastal Craft Looking for miniatures of vessels that did most of World War II's fighting at sea? Come to the PT Dockyard, where there are over FIFTY different 1/600 resin models from the following countries: US, Germany, Britain, USSR, Italy, Finland, Japan, France, Netherlands, Romania, Norway- even Yugoslav!! Everything from Elcos to E-boats(sorry...S-boats), from F-lighters to Fairmile HDMLs, French VTBs to Finnish VMVs, Subchasers,minesweepers, Siebel Ferries, MGBs and Russian Armored boats with T-34 Turrets and Katyuskas! Originally intended as miniatures for wargaming, The PT Dockyard kits offer unique, one-of-a-kind types not found anywhere else. Models come with detail parts molded in resin sheets and masts made from plastic rod. New kits coming out on a regular basis! Email for a list! gregorys7@juno.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: "Shaya Novak" Subject: AIRCRAFT CARRIER CH. DE GAULLE FINALLY THEY ARE HERE 1/400 French Aircraft Carrier Ch. de Gaulle 35.95 goto: http://www.modelshipbuilding.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume