Subject: SMML10/08/99VOL633 Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 00:20:51 +1000 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: The TRUTH about color...or the John Snyder celebrity roast... 2: Dutch judging 3: 1/700 Skywave Fletcher class destroyer 4: Re: Broadsides, Blast Bags etc. 5: NY Ship & Boat Model Festival - August 8th Report 6: Re: Various 7: Re: Broadsides, Blast Bags, and Deck finish 8: Life rafts, please help! 9: Atlantic Models Kirov - YES! and 1/350 Russian 10: Re USS Ward. 11: WWII USN hull paint scheme 12: Re: All plastic models 13: Re: 1999 Warship Camouflage 14: Re: Workbench ideas 15: Broadsides and tragedy 16: Thanks 17: Re: Broadsides 18: WW2 Soviet Ships 19: C.F. Adams class DDG 20: Yamato Blast 21: Mers-El-Kebir 22: Zuiho 23: Prinz Eugen Photo 24: Re: Bollards 25: Re: Dremel tool meltdown 26: Russian Circular Battleships 27: Re: WW ONE ROYAL NAVY COLOURS 28: Duncan 29: Aussie Tribals 30: Multiple docking plans 31: USN Post-WWII Camoflage 32: Man o'War profile books 33: Mystery picture?? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: Pacific Front Announcement 2: Normandie EXTENSION & Kirov! 3: Kiev Model & Battleship Texas Book -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Sheridan, John" Subject: Re: The TRUTH about color...or the John Snyder celebrity roast... >> He's been thrown out of numerous paint stores, I recollect a story not to recently about him attempting to spray paint a Disruptive Pattern on a store manager.... << Psssst!!! FYI, John's house is painted MS 32/3D........ John Sheridan Visit my USN Ship Camo site at: http://home.earthlink.net/~jrsheridan/ I am not a Member of the Lumber Cartel (tinlc) and I am not Unit #631 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "foeth" Subject: Dutch judging Mr Cornelissen was right about the 2nd prize at the Dutch IPMS, rigging was great, with railing, though not PE etc, but if it would have won the competition I'd think I'll say my IPMS membership goodbye. Not because the model was bad, but if the nationals are won by unpainted models (And one which is, I understand, an old model as well, so where are the newer ones?) there is clearly something wrong. There is virtually no competition in the dutch ship modeling departement. If one looks at 1:700, it was mostly crap. There was a lot of crap in 1:350 as well, and a lot of crap in the merchant category. The 1:500 did catch my eye as the rigging was done with skill. If it were painted... How the prizes were alloted in the 1:700 category was a mystery to me... I object to the dutch "Lets all be the judge system", it does not work! Models covered in glue spots take 1st prizes! The first price in 1:350 went to the only model that a) PE b) paint c) no gluespots d) weathering/wash/etc e) Airbrush used. Needless to say, there were no resin kits present. I intend to take my by-then-finished new WEM 1:350 Hood in the nationals of 2000, and see what happens. That is, if resin is allowed, as it may be plastic, there will surely be someone to object against it. (So I need to take a baseball bat with me as well, should I run out of arguments. The baseball bat is also a very handy judging tool, and can be used to disqualify models with, or indentify bad details with) Should the Dutch IPMS need a judge that can actually see the difference between hand painting and airbrushing, I hereby volunteer. I do not give much credit to models with a lot of time invested in them, as bad workmanship times 600 does not equal good workmanship! Also, no paint, though the model might show *good* craftmanship, is lacking in one of the most important aspects of modeling. I consider painting as absolutely vital to the overal model. As I always say "A bad paint job ruins every model, no matter how good, and a good paintjob can make almost every model look great". Well, no painting at all... it's just not finished. Foeth -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: Cataldo Torelli Subject: 1/700 Skywave Fletcher class destroyer Hi everybody, I've just bought a 1/700 Skywave USS Callaghan (DD-792) Fletcher class destroyer. It can be made like an early or latter type with a wide decal selection. It looks great for me but, I would like to hear from the experts (for me it's the first destroyer) on SMML. Is it better than the Tamiya offering ? Any word is very welcome. Best wishes, Cataldo Torelli. Madrid, Spain. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: "J. London" Subject: Re: Broadsides, Blast Bags etc. Ken Durling's interesting comments on the photo of PRINZ EUGEN on p 90 of Bekker, THE GERMAN NAVY 1939-1945, raises the question as to where the cameraman was located for this dramatic shot. It would have been on the starboard end of the docking bridge which projects from the bridge superstructure and can be seen in the beautiful broadside shot of PE on pp 108-109. Mike London -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: Felix Bustelo Subject: NY Ship & Boat Model Festival - August 8th Report Hello all, Just a quick report on happenings at the Festival's second day (August 8). While we in the Northeast are suffering a drought, we did have rain on Sunday morning (figures!). At least by the time I arrived and set up at my table, it had stopped and just remained overcast and breezy all day. The show is held outdoors and for the most part the tables are assembled below the elevated FDR Drive, which hugs the East River for the entire length of Manhattan. So, if it rained again, there was some cover. The three models I had on display at the show, the SS United States, the Mississippi Queen and the just finished Airfix Iron Duke were well received. Since this show attracts modelers and non modelers (the latter being folks who were visiting the Seaport and happen to see the event) different folks liked one model over the other. Quite a few liked the MQ, since it is a river boat and colorful and a little larger (1/270 scale) than the other two. Many like the SS US, with many of the older set remembering her when she would sail in and out of NYC and some actually sailed on her at some point. It was great talking to them about their experiences. The Iron Duke was a hit with the naval folks - some were surprised to hear that it was the Airfix kit, which I took as a compliment! Other models there that I had a quick chance at seeing (I had to stick by my table for most of the afternoon, but my father-in-law watched it for a bit) - A 1/192 scale model of the USS New Jersey in a late WW2 fit and a 1/192 scale Kirov - both scratch built by the same gentleman - were outstanding. (Peter, you would have loved the Kirov). The same gent had a stunning 1/350 Titanic with crew and passengers along with a Jack and Rose at the bow. A scratchbuilt R/C model of a Staten Island ferry was also beautiful and a crowd pleaser at the pool set up for the R/C boats. The fellow at the table next to me had a 1/4 scale R/C fireboat which shot water from its cannon. There was several other static models, both plastic and wood, but I cannot remember them at the moment. It was great meeting SMMLers Harry Dente (with wife and son) and Dan Kaplan. I hope that I have convinced Dan to display is 1/700 IJN models at next year's show. Once again, I missed Jeff Herne at the show (Dude, where were you?) It was fun and I am looking forward to next year's show. Cheers, Felix Bustelo -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: "John Snyder" Subject: Re: Various >> Subject: Re: Where do you build? << Build? I'm supposed to build? >> Subject: The TRUTH about color...or the John Snyder celebrity roast... He's been thrown out of numerous paint stores, I recollect a story not too recently about him attempting to spray paint a Disruptive Pattern on a store manager.... << That's not true, Jeff. I was trying to paint a disruptive pattern on MYSELF so I could sneak out without paying! >> PS: John, I guess that makes 2 tots of scotch I owe you << I'll drink to that! >> Subject: USS Ward DD 139 / APD 16 << That's a great detail about dyeing white hats green aboard APDs. I've long know about the practice of dyeing white hats blue aboard other ships for the same reason, but hadn't given any thought to the crews of those ships painted up in the green schemes. >> Subject: MS 21 vs MS 11; the never ending saga According to John Snyder, is that it came pre-mixed from the factory unlike most of the other paints which started with a base and needed to be mixed with pigments before using. << There were mixing instructions for Sea Blue 5-S, so that COULD be done. However, I just got through reading a passage in _My Life To The Destroyers_, a book published during the war by the captain of USS DRAYTON, aka "The Blue Beetle". They were at sea on 7 December 1941 when they received word of the attack on Pearl Harbor. He recounts that one of the first things they did, as they went to General Quarters in anticipating of hunting down and engaging the IJN, was to throw the cans of their beloved blue paint overboard to reduce fire hazard. Since the other purple-blues were mixed as needed.... >> Re: John Snyder dissertation on colour matching. Wow! Are you sure you weren't an alchemist in a past life. Anyway, the part I want to know is how do you know which Munsell colour you are trying to match in the first place. Is that not the hardest. << Don't bother me--I'm trying to make gold from plastic! As to knowing which Munsell color to match, we rely on historical reference data for that. However, we still have to reverse the effects of yellowing and darkening on the Munsell book (they're actual paint chips, remember?) before we do any matching. And watching our guy try to position a Munsell page (we disassemble the book) in his spectrophotomer so he can read one specific chip...well, it's not only sailors who use salty language. >> Subject: Re: work bench ergonomics << Jeez, I didn't realize model building was so hazardous to my health. I think I'll go back to rattlesnake hunting. Seriously, that is a lot of very good information presented in understandable fashion. John Snyder Snyder & Short Enterprises Alchemy, Inc. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: Joe Costanzo Subject: Re: Broadsides, Blast Bags, and Deck finish Actually, the blast effect from Yamato's weapons was roughly double that of the Iowa's. To experiment, dogs were put in cages on the decks (no such thing as a Japanese ASPCA in those days) when the main guns fired, the dogs desintegrated. It was such a problem that hangers had to be made for not only the aircraft, but the life boats as well, as they too would be blown to pieces! Thus, the unusual orfice on each side of the stern. I believe this is also the reason the deck mounted 20 mm guns were removed on Yamato, though I don't know for sure. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: Joe Costanzo Subject: Life rafts, please help! Someone please help! I am building the Classic Warships 1:700 St Louis and am perplexed about how to prep the life rafts. They have a backing that must be removed, but the rafts are too small to sand or cut with a hobby knife. Any suggestions? If not, are there compatable resin or injection rafts I can get? Thanks in advance -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: Joseph Poutre Subject: Atlantic Models Kirov - YES! and 1/350 Russian Peter, As I have told the Carters of WEM fame, I will be happy to purchase your 1/350 Kirov when it's ready. Waterline is not a problem to me. (I just have to buy a nice piece of jewelry to distract my wife when the big box comes. :-) As far as other Russian subjects in 1/350, I have seen models of the Sovremmenny and Udaloy from a Chinese(?) company listed on Ebay. Where the seller found them I do not know, since the images were too fuzzy to read the company name, and I can't find them anywhere. Joseph Poutre -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: CaptainOD@aol.com Subject: Re USS Ward. Mark, This sounds like a soft cover book I have on the Ward by Leeward publications, done I think in the 1970's. Does this book have colored profiles of the ship included? As I am interested in building a model of her, I am interested in any information, but before I send for it, would like to know if it may be the same book. From a personal side, having participated as a diver to block ships of all sizes in dry-docks as well as transports, it is a very detailed operation with extensive coordination beforehand and during the setup stages, with constant interaction between the dive parties and the ship's company. In addition to being about the most dangerous work, it can be very expensive if not done properly. Much later doing it for private customers shipping their toys to the Med and points beyond, repairs to paint, shafts, rudders, and other mishaps all come out of the company's pocket, re your paycheck. Bob O'Donovan -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: Douglas Bauer Subject: WWII USN hull paint scheme I have several USN photographs of USS Salamonie (AO26), taken in autumn 1943, which gives the impression that the hull is painted in three colors. I can discern the anti-fouling/boot topping which appears to be black, and there is a 15 - 20 foot wide stripe running from stem to stern in what appears to be a dark grey color, then above that up to the gunwales is the standard haze grey. Is anyone familiar with this paint scheme, and what color is that center stripe? Thanks, Doug Bauer -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: All plastic models Sorry you feel that way and I agree to a certain extent. However, by definition resin is a plastic. Once IPMS open the flood gate to metal figures they had no alternative except to allow forms of materials. I assume it was done to improve and increase the number of models at IPMS contests by bring figure modelers into society. The wood deck didn't bother me as much as it does you because it didn't represent a majority of the model. If the model was a plank on frame ship model it may have been different. I'm real glad I didn't have to make that decision. I'm also glad we don't have to make the "plastic" ruling on every model that's entered. By going with a plastic only definition the Nationals would almost surely have half the models that we expect to see each year. Photo etched part come under my category of detailing. By going back to the 75% plastic rule you would see pretty much the ship model every year. Currently the ship category are filled with a very diverse selection of magnificent model because of the resin industry. I have never agreed with allowing all metal models of any kind in the nationals. It wouldn't be difficult to cast those models in resin, but that's for another day. >> For what it's worth, I'm against metal figures at IPMS too. With a little work most of the the same could be done in plastic. I always felt that that was what made IPMS unique. << Doing figures or any other model in plastic would be the death Nell for them. The major plastic manufacturers would not take the financial risk to produce most figure and ship kits, leaving most ship and figure modelers with a very few kits to choose from. Case in point: After Tamiya released the Bismarck, Tirpitz, POW, etc., it was over 15 years before the release the 1/350 Fletcher kit. I guarantee you if the resin guys weren't out there doing the great kits they are doing now we would still be waiting for the next injected molded ship kit. This sounds like I'm off the subject, but the reason the kits are allowed in IPMS competition is why they are there for the most part. So in my opinion, stretching the plastic rule only improves what we see at contests every day. Rusty White IPMS(USA) Head ship judge -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: Joseph Poutre Subject: Re: 1999 Warship Camouflage >> I usually think of warship camouflage as an art that died out after World War II, but evidently it's not completely dead; the August 1999 issue of the U.S. Naval Institute Proceedings has a photograph on page 70 of several U.S. patrol boats painted in an interesting three-color, splinter-type pattern. One of the colors is reminiscent of the famous 5-B, Baby Blue. :> ). Now I wish they'd paint an Arleigh Burke that way.... << Those are Cyclone class Patrol Coastal boats. There are no models I know of, but after seeing that photo, I want one. As for an Arleigh Burke similiarly colored, buy that model and get to work! Maybe you'll inspire the Navy to follow suit. Low-viz grey may be the best camoflage color, but it sure makes for a boring paint job. Joseph Poutre -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: SeaPhoto@aol.com Subject: Re: Workbench ideas On the subject of workbench height and such, may I offer a little gadget that has come in useful for me? I built a second, miniature workbench, about 10 inches on a side, that sits on my regular workbench when I am doing very fine work. Raised about a foot, it brings the work to eye level, and allows me to work with my elbows on the main bench for added control. Now I never hunch over when dealing with very small parts, like making hinges and dogs for watertight doors. Kurt Greiner SeaPhoto Maritime Photography Now with online ordering! http://www.modelersboatyard.com/seaphoto -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: "Humber, Thom" Subject: Broadsides and tragedy Well, I will concede to the greater knowledge of the collective, i.e. staggered firings due to aerodynamics and not to hull stress. It does make more sense. Why build a BIG 45,000 ton ship that cannot withstand a few full salvos now and again? Although my main point was that the stagger is designed into the firing mechanism, not necessarily the reason behind it, and that the knowledge of how to build the big guns would have to be re-learned. Although it has made for an interesting couple of days. Thanks for the input and information. Over the weekend I fractured my right hand (index finger in two places)!! Now I'm really six to eight weeks (not including possible surgery) from attaching the final PE to my latest project. Thom Hi Thom, Hope you're feeling a bit better, by the time you read this. Now at least you can catch up on some reading - that's what I did, when my back said "slow down" ;-). Take care. Regards, Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: PASO34@webtv.net (Andy Greer) Subject: Thanks Thanks to everyone who posted a response to my question concerning the new models I purchased. I have been to the HMS Hood homepage and have printed out their review of the kit so I am in good shape. By the way, since there are obviously Bismarck/Tirpitz fans on the list, the shop where I bought these models at had two copies of the Lindberg 1/525 DKM Bismarck(unopened) @ 17.95 each in case anyone is interested. I do have one question: I love what I have seen from Tamiya in the 1:700 waterline series and I have visited the Tamiya homepage so Does anyone know of a site that lists all of the 1:700 kits available from Tamiya on the Internet. I think I will stick with this line for a while and I would love to do some US battleships from this in this line. As always, any help would be greatly appreciated and I thank you in advance. "I'll never reach my destination if I never try so I will sail my vessel until the river runs dry" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: "Kelvin Mok" Subject: Re: Broadsides >> Also I read somewhere that the muzzle blast on deck from Yamato's 18-inchers was sufficient to literally pulverize a small mammal - I think a Guinea Pig was mentioned. Does that sound true? And if so, is the blast from a 16-inch gun so much less that human mammals could loiter in it's effect without fear of, say, inner ear damage? << "A Modern Illustrated History of Sea Power", John Batchelor ISBN 0-89673-011-5 a. pg93 - ".. Now it became clear what a monster had been hatched, for it was not possible merely to scale up, say, the Nagato design to produce an 18-in-gunned battleship. As the British had found out in 1917, the increase in calibre caused many headaches; shell weight jumped up from about 2200 to 3200 lbs, and a triple turrent would weigh more than 2500 tons. Blast effects went up from about 50 lbs/sq inch from one of the Nagato's twin 16- in turrents to nearly 100 lbs/sq inch from thrww 18-in guns at a point 50 feet from the muzzles. It should be remembered that a muzzle blast of 1/4 lb/sq in could damage boats nearby and as little as 15 lb/sq in was capable of rendering a man unconcious. The new battleship would have to have all secondary and light guns enclosed in blast proof shields, and weather-deck fittings would have to be reduced to a minimum." b. pg 129 "The superstructure of the Yamato bristling with 5-in and 25-mm antiaircraft guns. The Japanese provided blast-proof mountings for the 5-in guns the protect the crew from the phenomenal blast of the 18-in guns which could tear the flesh from the unprotected arm of an exposed gunner. The weight of US air attacks forced them to add 25-mm guns regardless of the risk." But no guinea pigs. 15 psi, to remind modellers, is the pressure most commonly used for air brush painting. 25 - 40 psi is auto tire pressure. 20 - 80 psi for air tools, 80 psi for sand blasting. 175 psi max is the factory preset for portable tradesman air compressors. BB type CO2 cartidges is I believe 2000 psi. The WARNING here is that compressed air is not to be used for fooling around. Don't blow air guns at the eyes or ears. Most of all don't blow compressed air up someone's butt. Every few years I come across gruesome news reports of perforated intestines which can result in death or in lifelong pain as a consequence of air embolism. Kelvin Mok (klmok@home.com) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: TechnoInfidel@webtv.net (John Collins) Subject: WW2 Soviet Ships SMMLmates: In a 7 August posting, Gene Katz inquired about the availability of WW2 Soviet ships in plastic or resin. I know of three in 1/700. They are: Samak's destroyers Razmunjy and Tashkent; and Kombrig's light cruiser Kirov. I have the two Samak kits and have built the Razmunjy (Raz-mun-nyee, my Russian friends tell me). Both kits are well cast, with very fine surface detail that will escape notice until painted. Plastic rod is provided for gun barrels, masts, jackstaffs, etc., but I replaced the rod with brass. The instructions are rather good. An Arctic camo scheme is provided, black splinters over white--check your Munsell on those colors. Very nice kits and well worth the price. I don't have the Kombrig Kirov, but I did read a review in a recent Plastic Scale Modeler, #18, I believe. The gist of the review is that the kit is cleanly cast, slight over-pour on the hull and almost no flash on small parts. The major problem is that there are pirated copies of this kit out in the market. So this would not be a kit you would not want to buy sight unseen. Get it from a dealer you trust. Also, there are no instruction provided with the kit--at least Dan Jones' copy. Given the paucity of readily available data on the Soviet Navy in general, and the Kirov specifically, this could be a major hurdle for construction. But he (the Russian practice, I believe?) is a handsome ship. Anyone out there have this kit? All kits are available in the US. As I was at the Nationals during this thread, I didn't have the opportunity to respond The Mistress's request about first models. My first model was given to me in 1954; it was a Douglas F3D Skyknight. It had a solid plastic fuselage, wings, and tailplanes. It weighed almost as much as I did. The coolest thing was that the canopy could open and close, not that there was even an opening to indicate that a cockpit existed. I was six at the time. We had only recently moved overseas to Okinawa. It was a time of wonderment for me; my fascination with modeling and the Japanese continues. My first ship was a Revell USS Haven in 1957. Although I did try to trade for an Aurora pirate ship earlier, my Mom nixed the deal. My first serious ship model was the Tamiya IJN Suyuza in 1974 in Richmond, VA. I think I still have all the parts. My current projects are: 1/350 Iron Shipwrights PC 461, 1/700 Corsair Armada USS Detroit, 1/48 Westland Whirlwind Mk. 1. Be well, John Collins -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: Terry Godwin Subject: C.F. Adams class DDG Answer to Peter Hall's inquiry regarding C.F. Adams Class Plans, I do not have any plans for the Adams but I do have a few photos taken of the ship. I served as Weapons Office on the C.F. Adams in the mid 60's. If you are interested in seeing the photos let me know and I will scan them in and send to you off line. Terry Godwin, Englewood, CO -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: "chenyangzhang" Subject: Yamato Blast Hi Ken Skulski's Anatomy of the Ship on the Yamato has details of the blast pressure caused by all the guns on the ship. It also gives a blast pressure of 1.16kg per square centimetre as rendering crew unconcious and naked. I wonder how they tested that. I hadn't heard of the gineau pig experiment but I would imagine it was tied to a bit of string inches long and dangled from the top of the muzzle. The gun was then fired. Chris Langtree -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 21) From: "chenyangzhang" Subject: Mers-El-Kebir Has anyone an answer yet re my query about which British battleship sunk Bretagne (my research favours Resolution) Chris Langtree -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 22) From: Robert Weilacher Subject: Zuiho Anyone seen the new Hasegawa 1/700 Zuiho yet and can comment ? Rob -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 23) From: GrafSpee34@aol.com Subject: Prinz Eugen Photo The Prinz Eugen photo referred to in today's SMML was taken in 1940, shortly after its comissioning, by Kiel photographer Ferdinand Urbans. Urbans was a guest on board during a trial cruise in the Baltic. Urban's clearly understood the graceful lines and elegance of that cruiser, and this shot is one of many photos taken on board that day with his 35mm Leica. During the war, Urbans packaged and sold the prints to crewmen for a few Pfennig. As a result, this shot and the others in the series are frequently found in veteran's photo albums and in postwar books. (There is a similar series of official Prinz Eugen photos taken by the OKM and likewise sold to crewmen for their albums --those famous and familiar shots of Bismarck during Rheinubung are almost all part of this souvenir set.) Urbans took similar photos on board the Bismarck, but not while the ship was underway. In the photo, at the lower left, one sees the netting material applied to the railings around the 10.5cm mounts. Netting prevented shell casings and crewmen from falling onto the lower deck, or overboard, during battle. The shell casings were collected, repaired and reused. Moving upwards, one sees a canvas covered 2cm AA mount locked in a 90 degree angle. The canvas was usually a greyish or brownish shade. Looking at the tops of the 20.3cm turrets, the dark shade is in fact red, the air recognition color for ships in the Baltic in mid to late 1940. In 1940, the film company Agfa sent Urbans some of its new color slide film to experiment with. The red color was documented by Urbans in color photos taken on board, probably on the same cruise. Urbans took at least 4 color photos of the Prinz Eugen with that roll. The dark "T" at the bow is formed by a combination of the red national insignia stripe (in the center of which was a black swastika on a white disk) and the darker colored, raised wooden planks in the anchor chain area. The color difference was caused either by a darker, more scuff resistant wood, or simpy by a dark stain applied to the area. A portion of this darker, raised area is visible in one of Urbahn's color shots. It is a grey color, not brown. This leads me to believe that it is the same wood as the rest of the deck, stained dark to mask scuff marks and stains left by the chains. (The Warship Profile #6 centerfold, which shows the fo'c'sle a uniform grey color, is incorrect.) The speck in between the two anchors is a fixed steel guide for the underway refuelling hose. At that time, it was the practice to fuel in line astern as the tanker towed the ship taking on oil. The anchor windlass drums, in keeping with KM tradition, are painted in alternating vertical black and white stripes, with small strips of decorative polished brass in between. Later in the war, the white portions were overpainted with (probably) grey, although the brass seems to have been left bright. There is one mid-war war artist watercolor showing the originally white portions overpainted green (starboard) and red (port). Adds a speck of color to a model, but I wouldn't try it in 1:700. The Cajus Becker book is pretty good IMHO. It seems to come and go over the years. It's back in print in Germany, too. But, like most photo books on the Kriegsmarine, it sort of falls into the coffee table variety, lots of pretty pictures of lots of different ships, not too much on any one particular ship. The really bad thing is that its just enough to give one the hots to build a particular vessel, but not enough to make a decent model. Dave Krakow -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 24) From: Bradford Chaucer Subject: Re: Bollards >> If the bollards are nice and round, I'd make them with a punch-and-die set, a tool that everybody should have. Just punch a small diameter cilinder from thick styrene (Or use a pice of rod, but cutting it leaves a not-so-straight top, requiring sanding, which is nearly impossible due to the size of the rod, but also leaves you with a set of unique rods, and they need to be identical). Make a small disk from a larger diamter punch out of thin styrene. << Much simpler, at least for resin hulls. Make a base out of styrene. Position it with CA glue. Then spot drill the two holes for the posts. I then CA glue in one post (Actually a brass rod) at a time, cutting each to length with a pair of XURON Cutters, leaving them slightly proud (High) of the finished height. I finally use an abrasive disk (actually diamond) in my dremel to grind them flat and to height. BTW for any of you that have not discovered the XURON line of cutters, you are really missing something. They cut almost dead flat on one side of the cut. The other side of course has some pinch. They are also much lower force and don't tend to project cutoffs as badly. Regards, Bradford Chaucer -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 25) From: "Matt Melchert" Subject: Re: Dremel tool meltdown You can solve the Dremel melting plastic problem by wetting the plastic first. Any heat generated by friction is absorbed by the water. As in the heat of the moment I usually don't have water handy at the modeling desk, I just use a little dab of spittle. It still helps to drill just a little bit and then pull away before it gets too hot, then drill a bit more. With a little care you can completely avoid melting the plastic. (This may seem a little Freudian, but hey, whatever turns you on! :) ) Matt Melchert The Waikato Polytechnic Hamilton, New Zealand -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 26) From: "Matt Melchert" Subject: Russian Circular Battleships I read once that the Russians (pre-Soviet) built several circular battleships, the purpose of which was to provide a steady gun platform even in heavy seas. They apparently sailed fairly well except when moving downstream in a river, when they had a tendancy to spin around like a top. The Czar at the time was apparently very taken by these ships as they were so stable completely eliminated seasickness, which he was prone to. He therefore had a circular royal yacht built which was circular below the water but resembled a standard yacht above (?!). Can't remember the source. And since that time I've not encountered any other references to this. Am I dreaming, or did they really build those ships? Matt Melchert The Waikato Polytechnic Hamilton, New Zealand -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 27) From: Hargreaves Subject: Re: WW ONE ROYAL NAVY COLOURS John, another vote for WWI ships colours. To think that there is something beyond Admiralty Gray. Nirvana. All those guns in turrets, casements and superstructure and now colour too. When will the chips be ready? Thanks, George -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 28) From: Vimieraa@aol.com Subject: Duncan Dear boss, As I'm sure you know by now, the picture that you posted of Duncan isn't. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 29) From: Michael Eisenstadt Subject: Aussie Tribals Folks: Concerning the question about Australian tribal class destroyers in WWII: 1) "Warships of Australia" by Gillett and Graham (I don't have the full citation in front of me) have a nice line drawing (plan and profile views) of HMAS Warramunga as she appeared in March 1943, as well as a color painting of either Arunta or Warramunga (I can't recall) in its medium gray/dark gray disruptive camouflage. 2) The 2/1998 issue of the Australian Plastic Model Association Journal has a nice article on converting the Ultracast 1/700 HMCS Haida to the HMAS Bataan (circa mid-1945) which includes a nice line drawing in 1/700 scale of HMAS Bataan, with 1/350 scale drawings of the latice foremast and boxspring radar array which will have to be scratch built. You can get this article from APMA; contact our fearless webmaster, Shane Jenkins, for details! Happy modeling! Mike Eisenstadt Hi Mike, Thanks for the plug. You can access the APMA backissue list at the APMA site at: http://www.tac.com.au/~sljenkins/apma.htm Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 30) From: "Michael Czibovic" Subject: Multiple docking plans Besides stresses, there is another reason for multiple docking plans - barnacles. Ships usually get their bellies scrubbed when they're in drydock (as standard hull maintenance) and it's kind of difficult to get to the spots on the keel blocks. So...they scrape around them and get those spots on the next rotation. Look for these patches in photos of capsized ships. Mike Czibovic Corsair Armada Productions -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 31) From: "Edward F Grune" Subject: USN Post-WWII Camoflage Hello Mention was made on this list recently about a photo in the August USNI Proceedings which shows a group of the new US Navy patrol craft sporting dazzle camoflage. My Proceedings arrived yesterday -- if you havent't seen it, the paint job on these craft is quite handsome. The hull is a splinter pattern of dark grey and medium grey. The upper works is a three-color splinter of light blue, and two medium greys -- one slightly lighter than the medium grey on the hull -- the other slightly darker. The pattern extends up into the lattice work mast. I'd like to submit another example of post war camoflage -- the Gunboat Association has a 1969 photo of the USS Marathon - a member of the Asheville patrol gunboat (PG) class - located at http://members.visi.net/~macs/aboutpgs.html This photo shows the Marathon in what I could best discribe as a Measure 12 dapple pattern. Is there/was there any instructions issued which covered post war paint schemes other than "haze grey and underway?" Was the Marathon painted by a local commanders decision or was it part of a larger experimental painting program? Ed Mansfield, TX -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 32) From: Tirpitz70@webtv.net (Rich Hahn) Subject: Man o'War profile books Hello, Can anyone list the various warships profiled in this series? I only have #1, County Class Cruisers, by Raven/Roberts, which I bought many years ago. This book is great! Also, does anyone know where I may find more of these books? Thanks very much! Rich Hahn Bensalem, PA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 33) From: Shane Subject: Mystery picture?? Hi gang, Last year, whilst buying a second hand book. I had this picture fall out. http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/4712/pics/unknown.jpg Now, I've passed this around & no-one can identify it. So any clues asto what ship it is will be appreciated. Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Bill Gruner Subject: Pacific Front Announcement We will be moving to Roseburg, Oregon on, or about, August 20, and be closed down until approx. Sept. 7. We wil try to process as many of your backorders as possible before we have to completely shut down to move. After August 22, there will be a referral phone number when you call our old phone number. Our new address, after August 22, will be: P.O.Box 2098, Roseburg OR 97470. We have just received the excellent Nautilus Models USS Nautilus SS-168 (1943, Makin Island raid), in 1/350 resin w/photoetch, for $55.00. Nice kit! Well, done, Jim. I also have one Classic Warships 1/350 North Carolina, waterline, for $270.00, and one Classic Warships USS New Orleans, (full-hull, 1942), for $180.00. If you can email me or phone before Friday Aug.13 about these kits, I will probably be able to scramble a bit and get an order out by the following Monday, which will be our last mailing day before we re-locate. Thanks, very much, Bill Gruner Pacific Front Hobbies http://www.pacificfront.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Peter Hall" Subject: Normandie EXTENSION & Kirov! Hi again folks, Just to to say thank you to Jean - Paul for his vote of confidence and I could feel his disappointment so much that I will extend the time period for any further orders until the end of AUGUST. If there are at least ten firm orders in at WEM by then, I will proceed. We are half way there after all. If it doesn't happen then, things must move on and other projects got on with. Now more on the 'Kirov'. I am seriously looking into making a hull bottom for those that want a full hull kit. Providing I can get the necessary information to do this then the two halves will be joined during manufacture, effectively eliminating the modellers struggle to get two large and awkward parts to mate. The Kirov spent a lot of it's time without the usual name on each side of the stern, but it did have them there some of the time, so the Cyrilic lettering will be provided as Photo etched parts!!! This will also include the Great Seal badge on the stern door. The only real decals will be a variety of numbers, that were used at various points in time. Cheers for now Peter Hall -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: Bob Morley Subject: Kiev Model & Battleship Texas Book I have a plastic kit of the Kiev. 1/542 scale, made by Lindberg, and has the the following features: Kamov Hormone A/B Helicopters, Yak-36 Forger VTL Jet Fighter, SS-N-12 Cruise Missle Launchers, SA-N-4 A-A Missle Launchers, and 30mm Gatling A-A guns. It is still in its original shrink wrap. You can see a poor picture of the front of the box. It wouldn't fit on my scanner, so I had to scan it several times, and piece them together. The URL is: http://cosmic.swau.edu/~morleyb/ebay/kiev.jpg I would like to get $25.00 US for it + shipping. I also have a copy of Battleship Texas by Hugh Power, published by Texas A&M University Press. It has 79 photos/illustrations, and 141 pages. 8 1/2" by 11" excelent condition. $10.00 + shipping. Also turn of the century booklet of US naval ships. $5.00 too long to describe here. Let me know off line if intrested. Bob -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume