Subject: SMML11/08/99VOL634 Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 00:08:54 +1000 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: Mystery picture?? 2: Australian Truth or Fiction? 3: Re: WWII USN hull paint scheme 4: Re: Zuiho 5: Re: WW1 Paint Chips 6: Re: Mystery Picture?? 7: BWN Big E 8: Re: USN Post-WWII Camoflage 9: Re: Mystery picture?? 10: Re: Mystery ship picture 11: Re: Russian Circular Ships 12: Re: New Jersy Instruction sheet 13: Re: Russian Circular Battleships 14: Re: Man o' War books 15: Mystery Ship Picture 16: The answers to all the questions.... 17: Dutch IPMS Judging 18: Re: Mystery Picture 19: Re: Russian Circular Ships 20: SS-168 announcement 21: Circular Battleships 22: Man O' War 23: Duncan 24: Re: 1/700 kits of Russo Japanese war of 1904 25: Russian Circular Battleships & Man o' War 26: Re: 1/700 Skywave Fletcher class destroyer 27: Re: Life rafts, please help! 28: Polish DD's 29: Unknown ship 30: FLOATING DRYDOCKS 31: Re: Man o' war 32: Kirov and Dremel 33: WW-I USN Gray 34: Re: ZUIHO 35: Mystery Ship 36: Warpsite (again) and Rodney 37: Re: Duncan 38: 1/700 Skywave destroyer 39: 1/700 scale aircraft 40: 16" gun barrels 41: Russian Circular Battleships 42: USN Paint Chip Sets 43: Eclipse -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: APMA meeting this Saturday 2: Re: Battleship Txas book 3: Ship reference books for sale 4: Book: US Submarine Operations in WW II -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Joseph Poutre Subject: Re: Mystery picture?? >> Last year, whilst buying a second hand book. I had this picture fall out. http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/4712/pics/unknown.jpg Now, I've passed this around & no-one can identify it. So any clues as to what ship it is will be appreciated. << Shane, that is a WWII era US Navy Tacoma class Patrol Frigate (PF). I can't tell you which one, though. I am building one (USS Bayonne, PF-21) in 1/700 from a Japanese resin model of a Tacoma that was transferred after WWII. Three 3", two twin 40mm, several 20mm, a Hedgehog forward and depth charges aft. They were basically anti-sub units, smaller than DEs, based on a British frigate or corvette design. Joseph Poutre -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Katz, Gene S" Subject: Australian Truth or Fiction? Musk Life Savers (Nestle Confectionery): You may think musk is a scent, but over in Australia, they think it's a candy flavor. A candy flavor that tastes disturbingly like raw meat, to be precise. But what did you expect from a country where everyone happily consumes Vegemite? The above article was sent to me by a Brit. Not shipboard related, unless the lifesaver shape is ok. Comments, Diggers? Hi Gene, Gee, I don't know what "musk" you tasted, but it sure as hell doesn't taste like raw meat. As for Vegemite, you don't know what you're missing ;-)). Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "John Snyder" Subject: Re: WWII USN hull paint scheme Doug: You're looking at an example of Measure 22, and that "dark grey" stripe on the hull is actually Navy Blue (5-N), with Haze Gray (5-H) above. John Snyder Snyder & Short Enterprises The Paint Guys -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: "John Snyder" Subject: Re: Zuiho There was a built-up kit of ZUIHO at Orlando (though I don't think the flight deck was painted correctly--not enough contrast in the camo pattern). Mike Czibovic took a pretty close look at it. Mike...you there? John Snyder -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: "John Snyder" Subject: Re: WW1 Paint Chips OK, OK, here's the situation. We've obtained some paint chips that include WW1 RN colors. I posted a query on Rob Mackie's Warship website, as an attempt to gauge the interest in our producing a set of chips. All responses there were positive. The ever-watchful Miz Carter made mention of the subject here, and all responses here have been hearteningly positive as well (interestingly, more so than the responses a couple of years ago when I first posted a similar query about what turned into our present sets). However (couldn't you hear that coming?), we have yet to confirm the accuracy of the samples. Randy is also aware of some USN source material that he'd like to include in any WW1 set, so we've got a bit of research ahead of us. On top of that, we are committed to getting our second WW2 RN set (2/3 or more of the colors are already matched and mixed), our Regia Marina set (we have the originals in hand, and one color already matched and mixed), and our Kreigsmarine set (this one will take more correspondence/consultation with the likes of Dave Krakow, Evert-Jan Foeth, and Falk Pletscher) out. So we probably won't even get to the WW1 research point until a year from now--but we will get there. Of course, we're always glad to see evidence of interest, so keep those posts coming. John Snyder Snyder & Short Enterprises The Paint Guys -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: "John Snyder" Subject: Re: Mystery Picture?? Shane: She looks to me like either a River-class or a Black Swan-class (but I'm sure you'd gotten that far in identification). Can you make out a pennant number on the original photo? John Snyder Nope, the original phot is only 5cm x 7.5cm, so fairly small. I'll try & scan in a higher dpi pic & post it. Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: "Satin, Michael N. (SHEP)" Subject: BWN Big E Hey everyone! I know I've posted questions about this kit before, but at approx. $800 I really hate to mess it up! Today's question concerns the instruction that the hull parts (there are six, three above the water line and three below) may need shimming to match the three piece etched brass flight deck. I was concerned about how to line them up before I glued anything to see where I was at, since those huge brass pieces aren't very forgiving. What I did was to photocopy the etched deck parts and pieced them together. Then I laid them out on the three top hull parts and lined up the elevators holes and wells to see what kind of gaps I have to deal with. There's a good 1/8" gap between each of the three hull pieces to get the right spacing! Yipes!! That's a lot of shimming! (Frankly, I really think it's kind of excessive for a model that costs this much.) I'm really nervous about doing this without screwing up this otherwise excellent kit, and I'm afraid it may require some shims for the hanger deck bulkheads as well, which is going to be even worse. I've gotten a lot of good ideas from this list in the past. Any brilliant ones on this lulu? Thanks! Michael -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: "John Snyder" Subject: Re: USN Post-WWII Camoflage >> This photo shows the Marathon in what I could best discribe as a Measure 12 dapple pattern. Is there/was there any instructions issued which covered post war paint schemes other than "haze grey and underway?" Was the Marathon painted by a local commanders decision or was it part of a larger experimental painting program? << Boy, now there's a photo to cause me to go out and buy one of JAG Collective's kits of this class. I always liked their lines when I was in the Navy, and got to go aboard one once (CROCKETT?). Anyway, given the date (1969) of the photo of MARATHON, I suspect that there may have been something of a larger experimental painting program. That same year we (USS BAINBRIDGE) spent a good deal of our time in the Tonkin Gulf Yacht Club on North SAR station, way up in the north end of the Tonkin Gulf about 20 miles off Haiphong. Our SAR helicopter was a Kaman SH-2B Seasprite assigned to Detachment 108 (Det-108) of Helicopter Combat Squadron 7 (HC-7). It was painted up in a three-color camo scheme (dark green and gray on the upper fuselage, light gray below) and was, at the time, the ONLY camouflaged helo in the USN (and one on which I got to paint nose art--applied with my trusty airbrush). So it would seem something was afoot as regards camouflaged experiments. Trouble is, it's probably still classified. John Snyder Snyder & Short Enterprises The Paint Guys -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: Les Pickstock Subject: Re: Mystery picture?? The vessel shown in the mystery picture is a Royal Navy Sloop. Because they built more than any other class of sloop it's probably a Black Swan or modified Black Swan but could be one of the classes that preceded the Black Swans which had the same general proportions but varied in length. The only way to identify the ship would be to read the Pennant number which should have the Flag Superior "U", changed later to "L". The hilly background would suggest Scottish waters and the bold camo scheme plus the fuzzy suggestion of 271 Radar would indicate post 1941. Sloops were later referred to as Frigates and the class included STARLING (F.J."Johnny" Walker) and the AMATHYST Les Pickstock. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: "Mike Taylor" Subject: Re: Mystery ship picture Algerine class minesweeper?? My guess.....Mike T -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: "J. London" Subject: Re: Russian Circular Ships Yes these did indeed exist. Two battleships, the NOVGORAD and VIZE-ADMIRAL POPOV were built being launched in 1873 and 1875 respectively. They were designed by Popov himself and were intended to provide an especially steady gun platorm. They mounted two 11" and two 12" guns respectively mounted in the center flanked by two funnels. Respectively they displaced 2,491 tons and 3,550 tons and had horizontal type compound machinery which gave them a designed speed of 7 and 8.5 knots. In actuality the best they could achieve was 6 and 8 knots as their six propellers tended to make the ships very difficult to hold on a steady course and they had a distinct tendency to rotate, a problem repeated when the guns were fired. They served with the Black Sea Fleet as coast defence ships but were relegated to stationary store ships at Sevastopol at the turn of the century. They were scrapped prior to WW 1. The Tsar, who suffered from sea sickness, had a royal yatch built along similar lines but, this time, not completely circular. The LIVADAVIA of 1880 measured 235 ft long by 135 ft beam. She had three funnels abreast and three screws and made nearly 16 knots on trials. She proved too uncomfortable for an Imperial yatch however and was turned over to the Russian Navy. The use to which she was then put is obscure but one source says she was broken up as late as 1926. Mike London -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: "Reynaga, Tim@EDD" Subject: Re: New Jersy Instruction sheet To the gentleman who asked for the Tamiya New Jersey instruction sheet copy the other day; I have the xeroxes ready, just send me your address and I'll send them along. Good luck on your project! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: "Nuno J. V. Rubim" Subject: Re: Russian Circular Battleships Warship International published in Number 3 issue 1974,pp 218-239 a very interesting article under the title "The Popoffkas ", by Dr. Clifford George Roffey, with not only the development of those ships,but also with their specifications, very clear photos and some official drawings. Nuno Rubim Portugal -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: "J. London" Subject: Re: Man o' War books I can list a few of these. In addition to COUNTY CLASS CRUISERS there are No.2 'V' and 'W' CLASS DESTROYERS, No.3 RODNEY and NELSON and No.4 HUNT CLASS ESCORT DESTROYERS. The latter lists TOWN CLASS CRUISERS as being previously published but under what number is unclear. It also says that the next in the series would be COLONY CLASS CRUISERS but I have no idea if this was in fact published. They were published by Arms and Armour Press. A very similar series was published in the 1970's by Bivouac Books and titled ENSIGN. These included No.1 KING GEORGE V CLASS BATTLESHIPS, No.2 DIDO CLASS CRUISERS, No.3 FLOWER CLASS CORVETTES, No.4 QUEEN ELIZABETH CLASS BATTLESHIPS, No.5 TOWN CLASS CRUISERS, No.6 O to Z CLASS DESTROYERS, No.7 HOOD and No.8 RENOWN and REPULSE. They were written by such experts as Alan Raven, H. Trevor Lenton, Antony Preston, John Roberts and Maurice Northcott. I am not aware of any more than these eight. Mike London -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: "Mark L. Shannon" Subject: Mystery Ship Picture I'm not certain, I'm just going on some details that I think I see -- To me it looks like one of the "C" or "D" class cruisers in Admiralty Disruptive, but I'm missing a funnel. Another possibility, but I don't have my references, is that it looks a little like the French training cruiser (Jeanne D'Arc?) -- did she maybe get into the Free French forces or post-Normandy invasion refit in a British yard? Mark L. Shannon The early bird gets the worm, but it's the second mouse that gets the cheese. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: "Jeff Herne" Subject: The answers to all the questions.... To John Sheridan: from what I can gather, only portions of Snyder's house can be seen during various weather conditions, and I heard the mailman ran into his garage a couple of times, citing something about 'course deception' on the accident reports. To Cataldo: Depending upon which particular Fletcher you intend to model, there are a variety of options, all of which use the Tamiya hull over the Skywave. Without getting into brass parts, an early Fletcher (1942) can come straight out of the Tamiya box. For a mid-war round bridge, use the Tamiya superstructure, and use parts from the Skywave kit for the midship 40mm, forward 40mm, etc... For a square bridge, replace the Skywave hull with the Tamiya hull and proceed from there. This includes the late-war emergency AA fits as well. Make sure you get your camo patterns right, based upon what ship and what particular time frame you choose. To Felix: I woke up Sunday morning, it was raining like mad, so I slept in. When I woke up at 10:30am, it was still raining, so I decided to stay home...we get 30-something days of no rain, and it's gotta pour on the one day I actually WANTED to be outdoors. The guy who built the Kirov (attention Peter Hall) and the Titanic model was Don Otis, a good friend of mine and fellow ship club member. He also did the large USS New Jersey that was there. Sorry I missed it, I guess the weather 30 miles away was fine... To John Snyder: I've got a half bottle of Johnny Walker Red, it's been partially consumed over time by myself, Alan Raven, and Glen Arnold...I'll save the rest for your trip east... Regards, Jeff -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: "Jens H. Brandal" Subject: Dutch IPMS Judging Quite a broadside that one Evert-Jan. Your comments sound an awful lot like those who complain about lack of models of their favourite subjects and then do nothing to contribute. At least IPMS Holland is fortunate enough to have several ship classes - the most I've seen at the IPMS Norway Nationals in one year is six ships of all classes. Yes, they were all painted:) Joking aside, if you don't want unpainted models to win, enter the competition. Your comments also raise another point; that of the entrants judging. At the IPMS Norway Nationals, we still have judges for the very reason you mention. There is a local competition each year north of Oslo that has been running the entrants judging system for the past few years, and that has had some strange results. The models that tended to win were the most eyecatching rather than the "best" models. A lot of "specialised" people now had to look at other models than their own beloved category, and suddenly they had to pass judgements on subjects they knew little about. When you have to look at all the models and not just a particular category, there is no way you'll find the time to measure up each and everyone. For example, the winner in the 1:48th scale propeller aircraft was a Messerscmitt that still had a prominent seamline down the nose, but it was nicely presented on a wintery base and it was nicely painted in winter camouflage. Going for an eyecatching model is perfectly understandable, and I admit I committed this sin myself. Even though I like variety in my modelling, I admit to looking for models that I liked, and if they happened to have some flaw in them, so what? Car Modelers of Norway run their annual competition with this judging system, and they are perfectly happy with it. On this occasion, car modellers are judging other car models, so there is less of a risk of poor models winning as all judges know what to look for. The benefits of this system to the club are twofold; the club does not need to tie up resources for judging (in some cases it can be a real pain in the butt to persuade people to serve as judges - I speak from experience both as a judge as well as a competition chairman), and secondly the judging can be over and done with relatively quickly. There is another benefit to entrants judging too: "Forcing" people to look at other types of models will make them appreciate the other branches of plastic modelling, and hopefully give someone a nudge to try something out of the ordinary. If you want to win, you will have to make people take notice of your model. Often I see excellent models being presented in a rather anonymous manner. A good display base really enhances a good model, and is a great way to make people take notice of your work. Jens -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: Pieter Cornelissen Subject: Re: Mystery Picture >> Last year, whilst buying a second hand book. I had this picture fall out. http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/4712/pics/unknown.jpg Now, I've passed this around & no-one can identify it. So any clues as to what ship it is will be appreciated. << I would guess, repeat guess, that it might be one of the prewar dutch 'gunboats', either Flores, Soemba or van Kinsbergen. This guess is based on the hull from and the presence (a bit shadowy though) of three turrets. These ships were armed with three 6'' guns. You might get some real information by contacting the Naval History section of the dutch ministry of defence. Their website is, as I mentioned 2 SMML's ago, http://www.mindef.nl/marine/historie/imheng.htm Pieter Cornelissen -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: Chris Law Subject: Re: Russian Circular Ships Hi, The reader who wrote in re. the Russian "circular" ships is absolutely correct. In fact, the Museum of Transport in Kelvingrove, Glasgow, Scotland has a model of the Tsar Nicholas' "circular" private yacht on display. There may be a web site for the museum and further info could perhaps be gleaned from there. Whilst on the subject of the transport museum - it has a whole floor dedicated to model ships. There is even the engineers model of the HMS Hood which was built at John Brown's shipyard (if I can remember correctly) on the Clyde. Well worth a visit if you're in the area and admission is absolutely free! Cheers, Chris Law. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: KDur597268@aol.com Subject: SS-168 announcement Noticed with great interest Bill Gruener's mention of a new USS Nautilus - SS168 - model. I just want to ask, to be sure: is this the same "Nautilus" that was chased by IJN DD Arashi at Midway, spotted by McClusky and leading him to the fleet? Figure it probably has to be, but want to be sure. Since it's posted as being in a 1943 config, I'm wondering if it would have changed since June of 42. Don't imagine subs change that much but what do I know? Also thanks very much for the wonderful Prinz Eugen comments. The p.90 picture in my edition of the Bekker book doesn't show the canvas covered 2cm mount, though, unless I'm really missing something. I think it may be cropped differently. I do see the swastika on closer examination. Also interesting is the shadow of the railings, indicating how much chain droop there was between stanchions. And, I have to add, I'm having way too much fun with these Heller kits. Boy, they go together nice. And BOY there's a lot of parts! 8-o Thanks Ken -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 21) From: "chenyangzhang" Subject: Circular Battleships Hi Matt Modelkrak do a 1/700 model of one, Novgorod, available from White Ensign. Can't think what the name of the other is. Chris Langtree -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 22) From: "chenyangzhang" Subject: Man O' War Hi Rich The others I know of are V & W class destroyers (No 2) and Battleships Rodney and Nelson (No 3). There were supposed to be volumes on the Hunt class escort destroyers and Fiji class cruisers but I've never seen these. They're quite difficult to get hold of now as they've long been out of print. Chris Langtree -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 23) From: "chenyangzhang" Subject: Duncan Hi all The photo on SMML is HMS Duncan probably some time in 1941. The carrying of pennant numbers is difficult but what the photo shows is a rare case of a flotilla leader carrying hers. However, by 1941 there wasn't much of the D class left and so there wasn't really any flotilla. The paint scheme seems to be fairly new as well. Many thanks to John and Shane for posting it. Chris Langtree -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 24) From: "Alpaslan Ertungealp" Subject: Re: 1/700 kits of Russo Japanese war of 1904 This is just to inform everybody that I found a list of the following resin kits by ModelKrak of Poland. It is possible to obtain some of them already and others are being produced continuosly, I was told by Jadar-Models of Poland. Coast Defence Battleship "Nowgorod" Avizo "Kolchida" Gunboat "Mandzur" 1915 Minelayer "Amur" (1906) Cruiser "Nowik" (1900) Cruiser "Wariag" (1899) Cruiser "Aurora" (1897) Battleship "Patiomkin" (1898) "Inzynier Mechanik Zwieriew" (1905) Battlecruiser "Bajan" (1899) Minesweeper "Udarnik" (1917) Awizo "Borsuk" (1917) Battlecruiser "Ruryk" (1909) Battleship "Peresvet" (1898) Gunboat "Kuban" (1917) Battleship "Evstafiy" (1904) Battleship "Oktiabrskaja Revolucja" - "Gangut" (1911) Light Cruiser "Admiral Lazarev" Frigate "Monomach" (1883) Battleship "Tri Svjatitelja" (1891) "General - Admiral" (1873) Battlecruiser "Admiral Makarov" (1905) "Kercz" (1916) Gunboat "Ardagan" (1910) Battleship "SUVOROV" JAPAN Battleship "Mikasa" (1899) Battleship "Asashi" (1898) Battleship "Shikishima" (1900) Battleship "Yashima" (1896) ("Fuji") Coast Defence Battleship "Shin-Yen" (1885) Cruiser "Kassuga" (1904) ("Nissmin") Cruiser "Idzumo" (1900) Cruiser "Asama" (1899) Cruiser "Adzuma" (1900) Cruiser "Chiyoda" (1980) Cruiser "Kasagi" (1898) Cruiser "Takasago" (1898) Cruiser "Ioshino" (1893) Cruiser "Tsushima" (1898) Cruiser "Suma" (1896) Cruiser "Akashi" (1899) Cruiser "Itsikishima" (1891) Cruiser "Naniwa" (1885) Cruiser "Idzumi" (1884) Coast Defence Battleship "Fuso" (1878) Gunboat "Saien" (1885) Gunboat "Shinto" (1880) Cruiser "Yaeyama" (1892) Awizo "Tatsuta" (1894) Awizo "Miyako" (1899) Torpedoboat "Kagero" (1897) Torpedoboat "Sirakumo" (1901) Torpedoboat "Akebono" (1900) Torpedoboat "Kasumi" (1901) Torpedoboat "Murasame" (1902) Torpedoboat "Kotaka" (1886) Torpedoboat "Fukuriu" (1885) Torpedoboat "Siritaka" (1898) Awizo "Tatsuta" (1903) Next series: - French ships of WWII - Pearl Harbour - American - Spain War (1818) - and more... I hope this will be of interest to all SMMLies. Alp -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 25) From: "Leslie Brown" Subject: Russian Circular Battleships & Man o' War The Russian circular battleships were 'Novgorod' (launched 1873) and 'Vice-Admiral Popov' (launched 1875). Details are given in 'Conways All The Worlds Fighting Ships 1860-1905' including a small scale drawing of Novgorod. There is a 1:700 scale model of this vessel by Modelkrak (available from White Ensign). Model Shipwright No 104 has a detailed article on the construction of a model of 'The Popovka' (or Popov). As far as I am aware, the Man o' War series consisted of: No 1 - County Class Cruisers No 2 - V & W Class Destroyers No 3 - Battleships Rodney and Nelson No 4 - Hunt Class Escort Destroyers Les Brown -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 26) From: Ed Grune Subject: Re: 1/700 Skywave Fletcher class destroyer >> I've just bought a 1/700 Skywave USS Callaghan (DD-792) Fletcher class destroyer. It can be made like an early or latter type with a wide decal selection. It looks great for me but, I would like to hear from the experts (for me it's the first destroyer) on SMML. Is it better than the Tamiya >offering ? << IMO the Skywave Callaghan (W-1) is a very good kit. It has all the options which will allow it to be built in just about any time period ... early war round bridge - to mid-war square bridge - to late-war emergency AA fit - to post-war FRAM conversions. There are some problems with the waist 40mm gun supports - there should be a passageway through there, not be blocked off. The kit comes with a selection of alternate weapons. Best of all - the unused ones go into the spare's box. The Tamiya Fletcher makes up only as an early-war round-bridge version - with the higher MK37 director. There is really only one set of weapons which come with the kit. It too is an excellent kit with good fit. IMO -- Get the Tamiya too. Make it up as a round-bridge version and make the Callaghan as a square bridge. Apply what you learn about one to the other. If you're interested in adding brass details - check Tom's and Gold Medal Models. Both are excellent, although Tom's is finer and less forgiving for a first time user. While you're at Tom's - look at the walkway and hull number decals. These add the finishing touches. Ed Mansfield,TX -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 27) From: "Kenneth H. Goldman" Subject: Re: Life rafts, please help! Try affixing the rafts' face to a wood block "handle" with double-stick tape, then sand with #400 grit that has been glued, or otherwise held firmly, to a hard flat surface like window glass. Ken Goldman THE WALRUS AND THE CARPENTER http://www.wman.com/~khgold/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 28) From: "Peter Mispelkamp" Subject: Polish DD's Has anyone ordered/built any of the four 1/400 scale Polish DDs put out by Mirage? Are they any good? Are they full-hull or waterline? Do you know which of them served in WWII - or do the kits just represent these two ships Grom and Blyksawica (hope I got that name right!!) in two different wartime configurations? While I have my doubts, is it possible that they might represent DDs loaned to the Polish Navy by the RN.? If so, I think these kits will do very well indeed! I am hoping to to add them to my stalled fleet of 1/400 scale ships - currently my Allied fleet has no DDs while the KM has amassed ten Narviks and four Elbings! These kits sound sound like a great way to offset this disparity - if they are any good. Any comments would be appreciated. Peter K. H. Mispelkamp Hi Peter, Yes those two DD's served with the RN in WWII. Check out the following refs for the kits & ships. Blyskawica Mirage 1/400 Plastic Ship Modeller 97/1 1997 pp 7 Grom Mirage 1/400 Plastic Ship Modeller 96/4 1996 pp 5 The above are taken from my shiplist - check it out at either the APMA site or ModellerAl's site at: http://www.tac.com.au/~sljenkins/apma.htm http://www.up-link.net/~modeleral/ Also, in the one of the first five issues of Warship there is an excellant article(I didn't catalouge them - damm :-(( ) on the Polish DDs Regards, Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 29) From: "chenyangzhang" Subject: Unknown ship Hi Shane It looks like an escort sloop and I would suggest one of the Bittern, Egret or Black Swan. It also resembles the Halcyon class minesweepers but the funnel is too low. Chris Langtree -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 30) From: "fwliedel" Subject: FLOATING DRYDOCKS Does anybody know where I could get plains for British floating drydocks of W.W.1 . As I would like to scratch build one but only have a few pictures not really enough to do the job properly. REGARDS FRED LIEDEL -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 31) From: "fwliedel" Subject: Re: Man o' war With regards to other Man O' War series books. Number 3 was on Rodney and Nelson which I have got. I believe No 2 is on Hood???? I concur with you as I have also got No1 on the County class. The Rodney & Nelson one is just as good. Picked them up at the military bookshop in Brisbane years ago but no more ever showed up there. For those who have never seen them they are very similar to the Ensign series of about the same era. They where published by R S V Publications in the U.S and Arms & Armour Press in the U.K . Now if everybody hounds these companies maybe we could get them to ressue them. They are well worth the effort . Regards Fred Liedel -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 32) From: Darren Scannell Subject: Kirov and Dremel Just got caught up after a week away, lots of great posts to read through. Dremel Speed control, I use a 120v varistat (I think that's the right name), they're basically a coffee can sized shell with a wire coil inside and a dial on top that has a receptacle on the side and plug into a 120 volt socket. The dial can vary the output from 0-120vac. Not as fancy as the dimmer rig described earlier, but it works fine. They can sometimes be found in old electronics/electrical/instrument surplus stores. They were used in electrical repair shops and labs before all the fancy solid state power supplies. Although the other post was correct in stating that the torque loss makes it difficult to get a steady speed. I have found that saws, knifes and files work just as well for most styrene shaping. Peter Hall, I want a FULL HULL Kirov. and yes I'll pre-order if you make the bottom. I have a set of 1/150 scale plans of the Kirov from Taubmans plans service that I purchased earlier this year. Do you know of them? They have the underwater portion of the hull and a set of bulkhead lines. The plans seam nice with lots of little 3/4 view details of the fittings and some deck sections. I haven't got much reference material to check them with so I don't know how accurate they are. They are drawn by someone called M.Novy in 1983/4. When I met Caroline at the Nat's in Columbus in 1997, she indicated that they had a set from the shipyard, did they forget the info on the hull? Anyway, if you think they might be of use, I can scan some portions and you can check them out. Regards, Darren Scannell I'm still perfecting painting a solid gray, my head spins at the thought of camo! Do fingerprints count? (measure what?) Hi Darren, Umm, fingerprints!!! - That'd be Measure 8 off course ;-þ Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 33) From: "Duane W. Christensen" Subject: WW-I USN Gray To all of our color specialists out there: Both during the 1898 Spanish-American war, and from about 1909 to well after the end of WW-I, the USN painted its ships a color that has been described as "Slate Gray" or "Greenish-gray". I wonder if there is any information about this color. On a related note; The Dazzle cammo worn by US ships in WW-I. Did the the US use Royal Navy colors for these, or were these USN specific colors? Dare I hope for a WW-I USN paint chip set in the future? ;-) (I very much second the RN WW-1 set!) Duane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 34) From: JOHN A BURCH Subject: Re: ZUIHO >> Anyone seen the new Hasegawa 1/700 Zuiho yet and can comment? << I actually received my Hasegawa ZUIHO kit from Pacific Front Hobbies several hours after seeing the query in SMML10/08/99VOL633. I opened up the package and liked what I saw. The hull and parts appear to be on a par with the best Skywave kits. There is an extensive decal sheet with a large number of Hinomaru markings for the aircraft, the red and white aft flight deck markings, other white flight deck markings, and part of the flight deck camouflage markings as in the famous photo from the battle off Cape Engano. The instructions provide good info on reproducing the hull and flight deck camouflage scheme in IJN ASW "Greens". Decal label plates in Japanese characters and Romanji (Latin letters) for ZUIHO and SYOHO, are also provided. The part of the instruction sheet that deals with the ship's history is in both Japanese and English. The English part is quite good, free of the fractured syntax that often characterized older kits. The actual assembly instructions are in graphic form, supplemented with Japanese and English. Paint colors are coded for both Gunze Sangyo Aqueous Hobby Color and Mr. Color. There is one sprue of IJN "late war" aircraft. There is also a general purpose sprue (probably intended for several kits, similar to Skywave) that contains light AA guns, boats and four different float planes (ALF, DAVE, JAKE and PETE). The five deck edge masts/antennas are meant to represent lattice structures on their lower parts. As common in plastic kits, these masts/antennas are solid and really should be replaced with a PE set. Although I haven't started to build the kit, I like what I see, and the price is certainly OK. I should also note that I ordered and received the Pit-Road Ships colors PC17A and PC17B, the IJN ASW "Greens", from PFH, so I'm good to go! A copy of the box illustration may be found at: http://www.hlj.com/cgi-bin/hljpage3.cgi?HSGWL216 Cheers, John Burch Gaithersburg, Maryland, USA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 35) From: Tom Dean Subject: Mystery Ship Shane: Regarding the mystery ship, couldn't make too much out on the computer from that picture. Educated (?) guess would be that it is a Black Swan Sloop, freeboard seems a little too high for a River Class Frigate. Couldn't make out much in the way of detail. Also guessing by the background that the picture was taken in Plymouth. Also somebody mentioned that the previous picture posted was not HMS DUNCAN. Could that person help us out with what ship it is? That was the purpose of the exercise, and it would stop the guessing. Tom Dean Hamilton, Ontario Canada -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 36) From: Dimi Apostolopoulos Subject: Warpsite (again) and Rodney Folks, The specifics of the placement of the 4 twin 20 mm on Warspite on D-Day are unclear. Is it possible that two of them were used in place of searchlights in the aft part of the superstructure? A photo by Stan Lawrence in Tarrant's book of Warspite's A and B turrets (taken on D-Day) clearly shows that two single 20 mm are fitted on each turret. Moreover, a study of IWM photos A23914/5/6 and FL22112 reveals that two single 20 mm were fitted on all four 15 in gun turrets. However none of these photos is clear enough to help solve the twin 20 mm puzzle. On the subject of Warspite's camouflage on D-Day: Based on Raven and Roberts comments in "British Battleships of World War II" and other sources it seems that she retained 507B and 507C as the only two colors in her disruptive pattern until she was scrapped. Is this correct? Again photos in Tarrant's book indicate that her decks were in their natural color on D-Day. If someone has more information, please post. BTW, the illustration of Warspite's 1944 camouflage pattern in the Morskie book is fairly accurate. Here is another interesting camouflage issue. Does anyone have solid information on Rodney's camouflage colors on D-Day? With the exception of minor modifications she wore the same ADTP from 1942 until the end of the war. However, is it possible that the scheme was modified to incorporate colors of the 1943 range and that on D-Day she wore a scheme consisted of G5-G10-B15-G45 and white instead of MS1-MS2-B5-507C and white? Any thoughts or leads would be greatly appreciated! Dimi -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 37) From: Vimieraa@aol.com Subject: Re: Duncan I took another look at the posted photo labelled as the DUNCAN and it became obvious that I was suffering from a case of "foot in mouth disease" when I said that it wasn't the DUNCAN. Are there any more photos in this series or is this the only one? Where did it come from and what is the caption that goes with it? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 38) From: "Michael C. Smith" Subject: 1/700 Skywave destroyer Cataldo, The NAVIS site is featuring a detailed comparison of all Fletcher kits in 1/700 scale this month. I don't recall whether they think well or ill of the Skywave, but as my only 1/700 scale Fletcher is the Mathbox offering, I'm probably not qualified to offer opinions! Michael Smith Marshall, Texas -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 39) From: "Michael C. Smith" Subject: 1/700 scale aircraft I'm needing aircraft for a December 1940 Yorktown and a June 1942 Enterprise. Can anyone point me to a source for 1/700 scale Devastators and F3F biplane fighters? Or am I mistaken as to what CV-5 would have carried in late 1940? And is there any other option for 1/700 scale SBDs other than the Fujimis? I have plenty of the latter (plus some kitbashed TBDs to go with the measly one that came with my Independence (CV-22)) but I'd like to know if there are any better ones available, as SBDs are a favorite of mine. Michael Smith Marshall, Texas -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 40) From: Stuart Robottom Subject: 16" gun barrels Hi everyone. Does anyone know where I can get my hands on some 50 calibre 16" gun barrels (the type on the Iowas)? Preferably in 1:350 -- not in 1:1. Thanks in advance. Regards, Stuart Robottom http://www.deakin.edu.au/~robottom/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 41) From: Les Brown Subject: Russian Circular Battleships The reference to Russian circular battleships in yesterdays listing reminded me that there had recently been a posting of a review of the Modelkrak 1/700 Novgorod where help had been requested on the translation of painting instructions. Having not seen a response and now received my own model, I delved into my Polish dictionary and my best guess is: White - superstructure, ships boat Yellow - funnel (lower part) Black - ship's side, upper part of funnel Natural Wood - deck Les Brown <> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 42) From: "John Snyder" Subject: USN Paint Chip Sets I need to repeat a post that I put up on the Warship website a few days ago. After a year of labor and marketing experience, we find that we underpriced our two USN sets. Accordingly, we'll be raising the prices on these by $4 each, effective October 1; present prices will hold until that date, and the IJN and RN sets will not change. John Snyder Snyder & Short Enterprises The Paint Guys -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 43) From: "Pletscher-Lenz-Schneider" Subject: Eclipse Hi all you SMMLies This is not a specific ship modeller's subject, but we had a total eclipse over here, and it was really looking like Doom's Day. We had cloudy skies all over the day, so you couldn't see the sun. At the time of the eclipse, a very dark cloud covered the sky, and at the very moment of the total eclipse, it started raining. It was really dark as night, although it was 12.32 pm. The streets were empty, no cars, hardly any people, and a ghostly silence lay over the inner city of my hometown (Pforzheim, Germany). It was very impressive. Two minutes later the sky began lightening up again, and the "end of the world" was over. Falk Pletscher -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Shane Subject: APMA meeting this Saturday Hi gang, Yup, it's the monthly advert for the APMA meeting ;-)). If any SMMLie is in Sydney, this Saturday, you are all welcome to attend & you'll get to meet the Mistress ;->. If you have any queries, check out the APMA site or contact me at: mailto:sljenkins@tac.com.au for further details. Shane APMA VP http://www.tac.com.au/~sljenkins/apma.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: Bradford Chaucer Subject: Re: Battleship Txas book >> I also have a copy of Battleship Texas by Hugh Power, published by Texas A&M University Press. It has 79 photos/illustrations, and 141 pages. 8 1/2" by 11" excelent condition. $10.00 + shipping. << If that's the BB34or BB35 (I forget which _ I'll take it. Where do I send the check?? I am at: Bradford Chaucer 423 long Hill Rd Wallingford, CT 06492 Regards, Bradford Chaucer -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: David Gilbert, dbgilbert@yahoo.com Subject: Ship reference books for sale I have the following ship modeling reference books for sale, if anyone is interested. Kojinsha-Maru Ship: Mechanism of Japanese Warships, Vol. 1: IJN Battleships. Lots of diagrams and close up photos of details on Japanese warships. Japanese text. $30 US Warships FotoFax-U.S. Navy, 1942-1943, by Robert Stern, softcover, lots of pics, Arms and Armour Press, 1990. $8 Please respond directly to email address above, not to this listing. Shipping is extra. Prefer to sell to US buyer. Payment by money order. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: Tom Eisenhour Subject: Book: US Submarine Operations in WW II Does anyone have a copy of Theodore Roscoe's UNITED STATES SUBMARINE OPERATIONS IN WORLD WAR II or PIG BOATS that they'd like to sell? If so, please contact me off list. Thanks, Tom Eisenhour -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume