Subject: SMML21/08/99VOL644 Date: Sun, 22 Aug 1999 00:49:28 +1000 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: 50 BB's 2: Thank you to a fellow SMMLie 3: Re: materials for modeling 4: Re: Battleships named for all 50 US States 5: Re: Battleships named for all 50 US States 6: Battleship complement 7: Re: BWN 8: Re: ALBACORE 9: Yamato wreck pictures 10: King George V 11: LCVP and questions 12: Re: Battleships named for all 50 States 13: Rodders 14: HMS Rodney 15: HMS Edinburgh 16: Swedish armoured costal defence ships 17: Re: Edinburgh camo 18: Re: Rodney 19: Re: Blue Water Navy and flaming 20: Re: Blue Water Navy customer service-NOT 21: HMS Edinburgh 22: Re: Blue Water Navy Customer Service 23: SMML Convention? 24: Re: Albacore 25: Maritime Modeler announcement 26: Modern French colors 27: Mystery Gun Mount 28: Warship Perspectives #3 - Update 29: Re: Mystery picture 30: Re: HMS EDINBURGH -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: Model Expo Clearance -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Ross Bruce-QBR000 Subject: Re: 50 BB's From Ken and Shane: >> Indulge me in a trivia question - has every state had a BB named after it? (Can you tell I'm having trouble sleeping??) Was running through them in my mind - I'm certainly no battleship expert but found myself wondering, since I couldn't exactly think of a USS New York, Hawaii, or Louisiana. I'm sure they probably exist, but wonder what the group says. I think I made every other state at least ring a bell . . . << >> From memory, I think that not every US state has had BBs named after them. I think some CA's were named after states as well eg: Alaska(OK, so it was basically a battlcruiser). << A quick check of the personal files shows that all of the 48 states have at one time or the other had a BB actually named for their fair state, or were slated to have one built as in the case of Montana which would have been BB-51 if the construction hadn't been stopped by the Washington Naval Treaty. Some you have to go back to the very early BB's like the Kentucky which was BB-6 and would have been one of the unbuilt Iowa class. The U.S.S. New York BB-34 was I believe a sister of the U.S.S. Texas BB-35, she was used as a target at Bikini Atoll and ultimately sank by the U.S.N. on 8 July 1948. The U.S.S. Louisiana BB-19 was scrapped 1 Nov. 1923 in accordance with the Washington Naval Treaty. At the time that the U.S.N. was naming battleships Hawaii and Alaska were still territories and therefore didn't rate a BB. The territories were given the CB's as a consolation prize :^) Cruisers, be it a light or heavy were named after cities, at least until the politians started getting their fingers into the system. Ken I hope this helps you get some sleep, Bruce -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: WFulp@aol.com Subject: Thank you to a fellow SMMLie Many thanks to Jeff Herne who went WAY out of his way to help me with a question that I posted for a camo pattern. His upcoming book on USN camo patterns is going to be pretty awesome and I will be first in line to purchase one. It goes to show that SMMLies are a good bunch! Wayne Fulp -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "Satin, Michael N. (SHEP)" Subject: Re: materials for modeling Denis Campbell wrote: >> On another topic, there has been a lot said recently about IPMS and the minimum plastic content and, in UK there is now a move to eliminate photoetch in at least one class. I suppose that, if you are building to enter a contest (which I don't do - I build for my own pleasure only) you will have to follow the rules but...... let me paraphrase a quote from Gerald A. Wingrove - probably one of if not the best model builders around - in his book "The complete Car Modeler" (he is also a renowned ship modeler). He says he uses ANY material which will provide one or more of three attributes: shape, texture and color (colour). The shape and texture must be right and paint or, in some cases, electroplating of metal parts, will supply the color. ... I believe that we should do the same in building a model and not be purists about using only certain materials. Whatever works and achieves the desired result is the right material. << Good grief, Denis! This makes perfect sense! How dare you!!! ;-> Seriously, I completely agree. If we start to divide our hobby into camps of those who want to build the best looking model they can versus those who build to artificial contest rules, I think we're destroying the whole point. When the "P" was inserted into IPMS, the point was to distinguish us from wood carved models and flying models and so forth. I think that point is made. Etched metal and other newer techniques didn't exist. I'm new to ship modeling, though I've been doing aircraft for years. At my level of experience, I wouldn't want to do a ship model without all the etched metal help now available, I just don't think it would look as good and I want to do the best I can. Also, all the resin kits I have include white metal parts that they wouldn't have been able to do nearly as well in resin. I say, yea for the white metal in that case! I don't think I should be disqualified from competition due to my desire to make the best model possible. If someone else uses other materials and makes a better one than me, that's the breaks. Maybe we should call ourselves the "ISMS" (International Static Modelers Society) but in any case, let's not be pedantic. If we stake out a position and refuse to entertain new methods and ideas, I'm afraid we'll make ourselves obsolete. Anyway, that's my opinion. Michael -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: "Kenneth H. Goldman" Subject: Re: Battleships named for all 50 US States For the 10 points and the Vegemite: USS Kearsarge, BB5, launched 1898, commissioned 1900, was named by act of Congress to commemorate the steam sloop-of-war USS Kearsarge that sank CSS Alabama during the American Civil War. Was at Guantanamo when US took possession int 1903. Converted to a crane ship in 1920. Raised the sunken submarine Squalus in 1939. Became Crane Ship No.1, losing name Kearsarge to an aircraft carrier in 1941. Assisted in construction of carriers Hornet, Boxer, and Saratoga after 1945. Finished her service at the Boston Naval Shipyard and stricken from the List and sold for scrap in 1955. Ken Goldman THE WALRUS AND THE CARPENTER http://www.wman.com/~khgold/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: "Bultman, Fred" Subject: Re: Battleships named for all 50 US States Kearsarge. Named after the steam sloop USS Kearsarge of Civil War fame. Wish I could find the Revell kit. Another trivia question: The cruisers named for states, what were they renamed? Fred -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: "Arjun Sarup" Subject: Battleship complement Hi, Some of the capital ships that have been lost have resulted in a heavy loss of life. What would the average complement of a WW2 battleship have been, and how (maybe as an approximate percentage) would their jobs be divided, i.e. gunnery, navigation, propulsion, communications, cooks, etc? Also, would the entire complement be divided over 2 shifts, or what? And would this manning percentage hold good for all navies, or might there have been, say, to have more gunnery officers & men in a particular navy? Best wishes, Arjun Sarup Mauritius Brrr!!! - winter in a tropical island isn't much fun. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: "Aylin Kececi" Subject: Re: BWN >> I don't know about the fellow below from Turkey, but *I* did say I would return the broken/warped parts. *I* did have proof of purchase. .. << O.K. I did respond from an other address than my original one in Hungary. It was way long ago and might have even forgot my name. I was planning to make an attempt recently just before I saw the postings about BWN. My experience dates back about 3-4 years. I thought he MB have changed his policy for customer services. I still have good hopes and intentions. >> There are too many, way too many people that love to get something for nothing and copy it. << He's right. I do make business, too, and do experience similar behavior. >> As I have said before, I welcome spirited discussions, but this topic seems to be getting a little out of hand. So, before that happens, would all concerned, please cool down & think about what you are posting, otherwise I'll have to start sending posts back for re-writing. << I agree with Shane. At this stage the case needs to be solved personally not in "public". Mike, I trust in good will and will give another try. Do you still have the other lines as well as BWN? Please contact me personally at: alp_ert@mail.matav.hu ALPASLAN ERTUNGEALP -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: tom Subject: Re: ALBACORE >> Just a small correction. No diesel, just electric. In fact the entire lower half of the hull was crammed with nothing but batteries. On a side note of possible interest If any of you do make it out there. Last I visited they had stripped the labels off the knot meters in the control room so that tourist would not have any idea how fast she could move (that information is still classified by the US Navy). HOWEVER, They overlooked the labels on the Volt and Ampmeter Guages in the engine room. Last I was there, These were still mint. Just take the volts, multiply by amps, do some mental math and check yer old Physics book for Shaft Horse Power conversion......... Holy Cow! that sucker must have moved! << By great coincidence I was just reading the article about Albacore in my recently acquired Warship 1991. What a wild test platform and for sure a must-visit museum ship. If you were modeling her entire career it would take a several kits to capture all the things that were tried... counter-rotating props, standard props, cruciform rear control surfaces, X-shaped rear control surfaces, control surfaces BEHIND the prop, plus an assortment of forward dive planes, sail shapes, sonar domes and dive brakes. Guys in the boatyard must have made a career out of rebuilding just that one sub! Also the article quotes the two electric motors at 7,500 HP each, the two GM radial diesels powering the generators at only 1000 HP each and gives a 30-35 knot speed estimate. Best regards, Tom Kremer -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: "Reynaga, Tim@EDD" Subject: Yamato wreck pictures For you die hard Yamatoholics: I came across a website http://www.tv-asahi.co.jp/yamato/index.html http://www.tv-asahi.co.jp/yamato/index.html for Asahi TV of Japan which has some cool pictures of the Yamato wreck taken during a recent expedition. I don't read Japanese so I don't have any details about it, but the pictures are interesting. They include a shot of one of her screws, some shells, and a couple of views of the Imperial Crysanthemum Crest attached to the bow resting on the seabed. One of these clearly shows the still bright gold color of the crest. The other one shows that Tamiya didn't quite get the shape of the breakwater at the forepeak exactly right; it actually comes to a gentle point above the crest... I wonder if the program will ever be broadcast outside Japan. I would just love to see more of these pictures...! Tim Reynaga -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: "Michael Munion" Subject: King George V Hello Everyone, This is my first posting to this group. I have a question about the King George V's camo scheme....what did she use during the bismarck campaign, a light grey overall? And second I am building the 1/350 Tamiya kit whose hull seems to be missing the external deguassing gear, has anyone try to duplicate this on this hull. Thanks in advance -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: PASO34@webtv.net (Andy Greer) Subject: LCVP and questions I remember someone posting not too long ago about doing some LCVPs, LCTs, etc and were looking for models. Just wanted to pass along that if anyone is looking for a LCVP, I saw a Lindberg 1/32 LCVP done as a commemorative for D-Day anniversary I believe numbered 3276? our of a total run of 5000 at a hobby shop in Waynesboro, VA over the weekend. I also have a couple of questions. First, does anyone know if a company makes plastic display cases like those now available for plastic cars(for 5-10$) for 1/700 waterline ship models(I don't know how to scratchbuild these and I don't need anything really fancy). In some cases, the ones made to hold two cars(or a plane would be almost long enough and certainly high enough) and I hope they make them or someone makes something similar. Second, does anyone know where I can get some Polly-S Model prep fluid(so you can work without gloves and put it on to remove fingerprints, etc before painting). My local stores do not carry this and according to Detailing Scale Model Ships it works wonders. Any assistance would be greatly appreciated. Andy "I'll never reach my destination if I never try so I will sail my vessel until the river runs dry" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: "Vincent McCullough" Subject: Re: Battleships named for all 50 States Here's the list, folks: TEXAS (Second Class Battleship) MAINE (Second Class Battleship) INDIANA (BB 1) MASSACHUSETTS (BB 2) OREGON (BB 3) IOWA (BB 4) KEARSARGE (BB 5) KENTUCKY (BB 6) ILLINOIS (BB 7) ALABAMA (BB 8) WISCONSIN (BB 9) MAINE (BB 10) MISSOURI (BB 11) OHIO (BB 12) VIRGINIA (BB 13) NEBRASKA (BB 14) GEORGIA (BB 15) NEW JERSEY (BB 16) RHODE ISLAND (BB 17) CONNECTICUT (BB 18) LOUISIANA (BB 19) VERMONT (BB 20) KANSAS (BB 21) MINNESOTA (BB 22) MISSISSIPPI (B-23) IDAHO (B-24) NEW HAMPSHIRE (BB 25) SOUTH CAROLINA (BB 26) MICHIGAN (BB 27) DELAWARE (BB 28) NORTH DAKOTA (BB 29) FLORIDA (BB 30) UTAH (BB 31) WYOMING (BB 32) ARKANSAS (BB 33) NEW YORK (BB 34) TEXAS (BB 35) NEVADA (BB 36) OKLAHOMA (BB 37) PENNSYLVANIA (BB 38) ARIZONA (BB 39) NEW MEXICO (BB 40) MISSISSIPPI (BB 41) IDAHO (BB 42) TENNESSEE (BB 43) CALIFORNIA (BB 44) COLORADO (BB 45) MARYLAND (BB 46) WASHINGTON (BB 47) WEST VIRGINIA (BB 48) SOUTH DAKOTA (BB 49) INDIANA (BB 50) MONTANA (BB 51) NORTH CAROLINA (BB 52) IOWA (BB 53) MASSACHUSETTS (BB 54) NORTH CAROLINA (BB 55) WASHINGTON (BB 56) SOUTH DAKOTA (BB 57) INDIANA (BB 58) MASSACHUSETTS (BB 59) ALABAMA (BB 60) IOWA (BB 61) NEW JERSEY (BB 62) MISSOURI (BB 63) WISCONSIN (BB 64) ILLINOIS (BB 65) KENTUCKY (BB 66) MONTANA (BB 67) OHIO (BB 68) MAINE (BB 69) NEW HAMPSHIRE (BB 70) LOUISIANA (BB 71) Everything after Wisconsin was canceled, although the Kentucky (Iowa-class) was 71% done when work was stopped. The Montana would have been a new class of battleship, but this class was scrubbed in 1943. Other members of the class would have been Ohio, Maine, New Hampshire, and Louisiana. The Kearsarge (BB 5) is obviously the joker in the deck. According to the Dictionary of American Naval Fighting Ships (DANFS): "The second Kearsarge, named by act of Congress to commemorate the famed steam sloop-of-war, was launched 24 March 1898 by the Newport News Shipbuilding Co., Newport News, Va.; sponsored by Mrs. Herbert Winslow, daughter-in-law of Kearsarge 's commander, Captain John A. Winslow, during her famous battle with Alabama ; and commissioned 20 February 1900, Captain William M. Folger in command. " DANFS can be found at http://www.uss-salem.org/danfs/ Vince McCullough Chantilly, Virginia, Where it's actually RAINING for almost the first time in months! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: CHRIS DRAGE Subject: Rodders HI Roberto, I am currently building Rodney as she appeared in June 1944 and for this I needed a lot of research material and help from various SMMeLies and photos from the IWM. I feel I know Rodney inside out at the moment!! For the Bismarck incident you are best to start with the Tamiya Rodney with WEM etch brass - essential (forget the Nelson Kit - that represents the late war alterations and additions which were fine for my Rod. but certainly not for yours). You MUST get hold of Raven & Roberts' Man'o War Rodney & Nelson with its gorgeous centrefold - but for you, the many photos of Rodney early on in the war are essential for reference. Remember you will have to fashion that 'hole' on the starboard side of 'Queen Anne's Mansions' yourself - Tamiya just ignored it! A more interesting Rodney is her 1942 fit complete with Walrus, catapult and the lovely camo design featured in the MoW book. Loads of photos too! Regards, Chris He tao rakau e taea te karo, tena he tao kupa kaore e taea te karo.... (Te reo Maori) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: "chenyangzhang" Subject: HMS Rodney Hi Roberto This is one of those conversions where neither model is actually really close to Rodney's fit at the time of the Bismark action. The Rodney model is as Shane said pre-1930's, in fact its as launched. The Nelson model is supposed to be 1945 (though Tamiya have got the AA fit wrong as usual) but anyway has the wrong bridge, HACS tower and 4.7 inch guns. However, the Rodney model has the right HACS tower, 4.7 inch and 16 inch turrets. I would suggest buying the Rodney model and making the following modifications. 1. The bridge needs to be built out (see photos and plans), as depicted its the original. Baffle plates need to be added to the various levels as well. 2. The following AA needs to be added. 3 x 8 barrelled pom-poms located one on the quarterdeck and 2 just in front of the funnel (the Nelson kit parts would be really useful for this). Buy the White Ensign pom-poms which are stunning. Two 20 mm in line ahead need to be added to the top of B turret. 2 0.5 inch mountings also need to be added to the rear of the bridge on their own platforms. 3. A Walrus catapult needs to be added to X turret and a crane on the port side just in front of the bridge. The Walrus, crane and catapult can be obtained from White Ensign as well. 4. A later HACS needs to be added to the top of the bridge tower. 5. Type 279 Radar needs to be added to the HACS tower. 6. Remove all the saluting guns and add a recess to the starboard side of the bridge on the coning tower deck. 7. Do not install the davits and boats. Rodney's boat complement was (as far as I can make out) 2 x 50 foot motor pinnaces and 2 x 45 foot motor launches on the boat deck. Add lots of Carley floats 8 The mainmast needs to be cut down. I think that she was still in 507B at the time of the Bismark encounter. White Ensign do an etched brass sheet which will provide a lot of the delicate bits you need and they also provide several excellent resin extras and can sell you a set of plans as well. Drop me a line if you need any further help Chris Langtree Where its supposed to be summer but is only 20 degrees -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: "chenyangzhang" Subject: HMS Edinburgh Hi Edward Unfortunately you possess the all the information that appeared on SMML. No one seems to have been able to locate any other details (not even Alan Raven). Chris Langtree -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: "Erhardtsen" Subject: Swedish armoured costal defence ships I am building the old swedish armoured costal defence ships of the Äran class (Manligheten, Äran, Wasa and Tapperheten). I do have the good as build drawing of Manligheten from Conway´s Warship 1996, and a bad drawing of her in 1942 (+ fotos) Can someone help me with drawings of the other ships, as they appeard in W.W.2...? Erik Erhardtsen -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: "graham walker" Subject: Re: Edinburgh camo I have only seen 1 photo of her when sinking, 1 poor quality and the other good, trouble was both the same pic:( Though it seemed to me to be 3 colours involed, let me know if you find out. graham@Cruiser sig -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: "graham walker" Subject: Re: Rodney Hi Roberto, It is interesting, the Rodney kit would be the easier to use, but you do need the Crane, pom poms and their platforms from the Nelson, good eh. What you need to do to the Rodney kit is. 1 Cut out the recess on the starboard side of the bridge. 2 Add a crane on the port side, between the bridge and side of the ship. 3 Add a catapult to X turret , + Walrus aircraft. 4 2x20mm AA guns and tubs on B turret. 5 2x0.5multiple machine gun and platforms fitted to the after corners of the bridge. 6 3 Mk.V pom pom mountings, one either side of the funnel, in place of the torpedo range finders(the things that look like a barrel with two bars sticking out from them). And one on the quarterdeck near the stern. 7 Type 79y radar. There may be some thing I have missed though I do not think so. You can get the pom poms, etch brass with includes the crane, catapult and 20mms from White Ensign Models. to convert Nelson alot harder, 1 As 1 above. remove the 40mm bofors and platforms, make a director or get one from the Rodney kit. 2 get the Rodney bridge/superstructure. 3 Say buggerit and stick with the Rodney kit, Honest it is a lot easier to rework. 4 Trust me, I have got half way through it my self. best wishes, graham@Cruiser sig -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: valiant@home.com Subject: Re: Blue Water Navy and flaming hello all Well, to all those who have been kind and brave enough to post a complaint about BWN, thanks. You've convinced me not to buy anything from him. Better safe than sorry is my motto and when it comes to cottage companies its the best way to go. why you might ask? because simply you are at their mercy. they have something neat and cool that you want and will give it to you for a very high cost. you send in your hard earned moolah only to find it isn't up to your expectations or have it half destroyed when it arrives. then, you get spit on(by the company owner/manufacturer) when if you kindly ask about replacement or some kind of solution. i've been thu this kind of thing before and would gladly avoid it when and where ever possible. when a cottage company behaves this way it means they don't give a damn about you because now they have your money. and they really shameful thing is these ppl who get treated poorly or robbed outright have almost no voice. with the exception of the internet. mail groups, posting boards,news groups are great things that allow us to communicate ideas, thoughts and experiences, good or bad. are these posts about BWN negative? most certainly yes. but not without reason, as stated in the posts. to me that is not flaming. is the guy a little miffed? yes. does he have a reason to be? by the sounds of it he sure does. he's stating his opinion on the subject by account of his own experience. experience is a valuable tool. i subscribe to this mail group so i can pool on every ones experience on model ship building as i am a novice. tools to use, technique, where to buy cool new models, reviews of models, reference material, things to avoid and so forth. good and bad experience are useful. just as long as such posts don't tell be me i have to do things a certain way or else, have to buy my supplies at a certain store, etc., i hope to see posts like this in the future. by the sounds of it, the post master is ready to kill all discussion on the subject. a shame. when you spend as much money as we do on models, you do get a little pissed off when you get ripped off. why? this stuff costs money. LOTS of money. some of us have to save up for this stuff for some time. myself i'm saving for a Tom's model works USS Yorktown. so i don't mind ppl getting a little hot. that's ok. just as long as you don't turn it into a mission to destroy the enemy at all costs. this particular thread isn't even luke warm yet. i also understand shane is just trying to put out a fire before it starts. kudos to you shane as some post masters let it go much to far, but i don't think you give us readers enough credit. we are all normal law-abiding ppl here right? i think we can keep ourselves under control. but i must say in my experience, when the accused makes a post like this in a public forum defending himself and accusing others instead of replying to the accuser it seems to me that the particular shop owner is trying shift the problem/cause of problem to anyone but themselves. trying to keep the public from believing the complaints, trying to keep his name out of the mud. that said and done, it has also been my experience that ppl (customers) post complaints like this in public forums like this after numerous and reasonable attempts have been made to correct the problem. so, i don't call this flaming. in fact, as a dissatisfied customer it's his right (should i say duty?) to complain. such complaints help the rest of us makw wise decisions where and from who to buy kits, books, tools, etc., i guess the real question at hand is do such complaints belong here? myself i say yes. and i believe the internet is the place to do it. if companies are allowed to advertise here ppl should be allowed to complain about them. If your service is first rate then of course you have nothing to fear (Tom's model works comes to mind). and if ppl are complaining about your service, maybe you should try listening to them instead of trying to deflect the blame. well, i have to go out and pick up a new model so enough of my ranting...i hope i haven't tee'd anyone off... Aaron 'HARLOCK' Propper modeler on the loose Hi Arron, et al, As I have stated before, I don't mind spirited discussions. The point of my post, yesterday, was mainly to serve notice to people to keep it cool on what could rapidly go downhill from here. The hardest part of being a moderator, is knowing when & how hard to jump in. I prefer to let most threads take their course, as SMML mainly self-polices itself. The exception being mainly when it concerns traders, which can quickly spiral downhill to personal attacks. This is not good for SMML, the traders & their customers. So, to re-iterate what I said yesterday, cool down & think before you post on what is a "hot" topic. Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: James Corley Subject: Re: Blue Water Navy customer service-NOT >> Sorry, But this person never purchased anything from MB Models, Highflight or BWN. I have no idea what he is talking about. As far as getting replacement parts, I do send them out when and only when the damaged or defective part is returned. If someone is missing a part I need a proof of purchase from them in order to get the part sent to them. There are too many, way too many people that love to get something for nothing and copy it. Mike << From Email Terrorist #1: Yeah, Mike, that explains why it took me two years to get a replacement lower forward hull for my HOUSTON kit, I wanted to copy it!?!? Get real. You refused to replace the part, plain and simple. As for my request to trade an EXTRA 5" gun for a missing 1.1" Quad, how can one return a MISSING part??!!??!! You never relented, and it took direct intervention from Charlie Parker to get the requested part. You policy treats the customer as a thief, whereas my policy covers replacement "even if the cat eats it" with no questions asked (except if the cat did indeed eat it!) for any part in a kit. Sure, there may be one or two people out there who are trying to get a free kit, but I believe the other 998 or so just want what they believe they paid for. I have had a few problems with things "lost" in the mail, but there was another recent scandal at one of the Atlanta area post offices with the local TV crew filming PO workers dumping the white USPS bins into the dumpster which is where I attribute most of the losses, not to dishonest customers. Now, nothing gets "lost" with delivery confirmation so I pay the extra 35 cents and keep the post office honest. But, if take time to notice, I have not made any comments about BWN, either here or on rms since I got my parts (included with a complete replacement kit....I know you didnt like that!) and I will continue to refrain from endorsing or denegrating your product until you take a positive step in customer service.....too many people make the same complaint for it to be a baseless claim. Email Terrorist mode JZ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 21) From: Brian Selzler Subject: HMS Edinburgh Hi Edward, I don't know how much help this may be to you but, I just finished reading "Last Call For HMS Edinburgh" by Frank Pearce (ISBN 0 330 26686 1) which details her demise. It's a paperback published by Pan Books Ltd in1982 and on the cover is a painting by Geoff Hunt of the ship burning and listing to starboard from a starboard bow-on perspective. Perhaps he was inspired by the first photo you mentioned. Anyway it appears he has painted her in a three colour scheme, two greys and a blue. I'm assuming Geoff Hunt resides in your part of the world so you might be able to get a look at the original painting if you can track him down. Maybe even someone on the list knows him as I believe he's done other naval/nautical covers. regards, Brian in sweltering Kamloops (K 176) BC -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 22) From: "Rob Mackie" Subject: Re: Blue Water Navy Customer Service In the past few years I have had two occasions when I needed replacement parts from Blue Water Navy. In both instances I received the needed parts promptly and with minimal fuss. BWN is 2 for 2 as far as I'm concerned and I plan on doing business with them in the future. Regards, Rob Mackie Warship Editor and Webmaster -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 23) From: CA139JOHNF@aol.com Subject: SMML Convention? Hello Group, I have follwed the discssions from the members regarding the various modeling organizations around the world with great interest. I wondered if there would be enough interest out there in a SMML Convention or show. If we put it out far enough, say around the spring summer or fall (northern hemisphere) of 2001 then maybe some members could attend. For those that cannot, models could be shipped in. I am not talking of a judged show but maybe let the public pick their favorites and just have some fun. The US Naval & Shipbuilding Museum would be priveledged to host such an event aboard the USS Salem in Quincy, Massachusetts. (Lotsa the real things close by to climb all over too!). How about it? Any interest? John Frohock Curator/Model Collection USNSM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 24) From: Ives100@aol.com Subject: Re: Albacore >> Just a small correction. No diesel, just electric. In fact the entire lower half of the hull was crammed with nothing but batteries. << Wrong, wrong wrong!!! Albacore had a very unusual diesel plant that I didn't mention in the first post, as it is somewhat technical. Since you brough it up.....She has 2 diesels, termed "half a Tang" plant diesels; these are the infamous "pancake" rotary diesel engines. The Tang class started off with four of these pancake diesels, which are rotary diesels that are installed vertically, wtih the generator set below the diesel. They saved space and promised excellent performance, but had a terrible service record, due to inadequate lube oil flow and other problems. Tang, Trigger, Wahoo and other of the boats equipped with these engines suffered embarassing breakdowns of 2, 3, even all 4 engines on deployements. Eventually, they were cut in half and lengthened to accept the older but more reliable in line diesels. Albacore retained her two pancake diesels, as she went out on mostly short runs to test specific performance and maneuvering goals. To my knowledge, this is the only place you can still see these "historic" mistakes. The diesels on Albacore are on either side in port & starboard cubicle rooms just forward of her maneuvering/engine room. The area is much smaller than you would expect, and they don't look like standard diesel engines. She had to have diesel-electric drive, as in many speed runs she ran her batteries virtually flat after 30 minutes. Tom Dougherty -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 25) From: "Kindrachuk, Mark" Subject: Maritime Modeler announcement I was certainly interested to see the announcement regarding the proposed Maritime Modeler magazine. By way of background, Hundman Publishing has produced a first-rate model railroad magazine (Mainline Modeler) since 1980, which contains (in my opinion, anyway) the perfect mixture of prototype and modelling information. Mainline Modeler is a very high-quality product, both in physical design and in content, and the publisher has been in this business for a long time. All of this strongly suggests that Maritime Modeler will be a very exciting periodical, and one eminently worth of support. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 26) From: Phil Kirchmeier Subject: Modern French colors I'm building the new Heller kit of the French carrier Charles de Gaulle (not a bad kit by the way, a little soft on detail but it has great potential), and I'm stumped on choice of gray for the hull color. Does anyone have any ideas on (preferably) a Polly Scale color that will be a close match to modern French colors. The instructions are little help (at least to me), all they list are color numbers for what I assume is their brand of paint. Actually, if color suggestions can't be offered, would someone familiar with Heller paints please translate these numbers to actual colors. 19, 24, 27, 34, 73, 85, 127. Thanks.-Phil -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 27) From: Growlrr@aol.com Subject: Mystery Gun Mount Ok guys - Came across a weird one doing some research (yes - the original kind!) today - I came across a couple of drawings of a "Mark 22, twin barrel, water-cooled, 50 cal" mounted on a pedestal. Yes, water cooled, full metal barrel jackets and everything - Can anybody tell me what ships these were mounted on? I've never seen one on anything that floats before....Thanks Glenn -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 28) From: Growlrr@aol.com Subject: Warship Perspectives #3 - Update Since Mr. Lambert was kind enough to tell everyone he has delivered his material to WR Press and thereby absolves himself forthwith of any and all responsibility for the eventual publication :o) - I thought I'd post an update... After going through his material and discarding 93% of it... (betcha that got your attention! - (just kidding though - Alan put me up to it!)) - Actually almost all the material is now in my hands and layout will begin shortly. I've seen bits and pieces of the book during development, but today was the first time I saw the whole sh'bang in one place. The amount of NEW material is mind boggling - funnel emblems, detail drawings of almost everything (couldn't find one of the officers head - although I'm sure if I ask...), GA's, fittings, rigging, photos to kill for - I'm quite afraid Mr. Lambert has raised the bar for the rest of us involved in the series.... I also got my first peek at Perspectives #4 - "RN Camoflage - Volume #1" by none other then Alan Raven himself - one word - WOW! Most of what I saw has NEVER been published -New volumes will be coming out a little quicker from here on out (as long as Alan's money lasts anyway). Perspectives #5 - "Cleveland Class Cruisers" by yours truly - is well under way as well...Keep an eye out additional updates over the coming weeks! Glenn Arnold -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 29) From: Tim Stoneman Subject: Re: Mystery picture To follow this thread a little further, having been away for a while, I have reservations about firmly identifying her as WARREGO for a couple of reasons: The pennant number looks (to me) more like U74 than U73 (but perhaps that's just my eyesight) Both SWAN and WARREGO wore a similar camouflage scheme to our mystery ship (see Australian War Museum's photo archives at http://www.awm.gov.au/database/photo.asp) I therefore suspect she may be HMAS SWAN, but I guess I can't prove it either! Tim Stoneman -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 30) From: Tim Stoneman Subject: Re: HMS EDINBURGH There are posts about EDINBURGH in SMML 474,475 and 476. As to camouflage, she wore an overall single-tone (507B, or perhaps changed to 507A?) scheme at least until after her July 1941 refit, but by the time she was sunk, she was wearing a multi-coloured (Admiralty Disruptive?) scheme with what appear to be three colours, probably painted up in her Tyne refit in 1942. There are various poor-quality photos published showing parts of the scheme, taken from one of her escorts after her stern had been blown off (eg in the World Ship Society's "Convoys to Russia"), but none that I have found are good enough to give a complete idea of her camouflage scheme (even allowing for the fact that her stern section was at the bottom of the Arctic Ocean at that stage!). Another shot of her in company with USS WASP in April 1942 (in "USN in World War 2 1941-1942") is also too indistinct to give a clear view. Tim Stoneman -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Conan35@aol.com Subject: Model Expo Clearence Model Expo has just put a number of inventory clearance items on the web site, including Tamiya items: TM78001 Bismarck, $34.99 TM78003 Tirpitz, $34.99 TM78002 Yamatco, $39.99 TM78007 USS Enterprise, $99.99 TM78005 USS New Jersey, $39.99 TM78008 USS Missouri, $39.99 All can be found under Deals of the Month category, sub-category Inventory Clearance Sale - http://www.modelexpoinc.com Best Rob Finley, Web Site Mgr. Model Expo, Inc. http://www.modelexpoinc.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume