Subject: SMML24/08/99VOL647 Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 00:40:19 +1000 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: KGV 2: Blue Water Navy customer service-NOT 3: 1/350 aircraft 4: Re: "SalemCon" 5: Re: Philadelphia Project 6: Re: Cleaning Solutions for Plastics/Resin 7: Re: Enterprises (now very off-topic - well, for marine ships, anyway!) 8: Post-War Liberty Ships 9: Prinz Eugen 10: The Philedelphia Experiment 11: Naming USN Ships 12: Re: Yamato Website 13: NASTY RUMBLES 14: Re: Philadelphia Project 15: Re: Philadelphia Project, 16: Re: Philadelphia Project, 17: Re: SMML convention 18: Re: Pit Road www page 19: Yamato Project '99: Day 6 (Typhoon delays work) 20: Re: IJN CV Shokaku, Pitroad URL 21: Belfast Camouflage 22: Paddle wheelers in 1/64 23: Re: SMML convention and international survey 24: Admiral Scheer Color 25: Battleship name thread ... 26: Alaska and revolutionary designs 27: Re: Mystery ship 28: Plastic Ship Modeller issue No 20 29: Des Moines -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: GMM 1/350 Missouri set & GMM Extra Railing 2: e-mail failures 3: WHITE ENSIGN MODELS WEBPAGES UPDATED -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Satin, Michael N. (SHEP)" Subject: KGV >> And second I am building the 1/350 Tamiya kit whose hull seems to be missing the external deguassing gear, has anyone try to duplicate this on this hull. << Michael, The posting on Sunday concerning the fit of the Tamiya kit was correct, the model depicts the KGV as she appeared in 1945 in the Pacific. Along with the degaussing cables, you're missing the aircraft catapult as well. I don't know if this is right (I'm sure SOMEONE will correct me :->) but you might be better off using the PoW to do an early KGV. The Gold Medal Model brass set will help, as it has the degaussing cables complete with the name of the ship (but no catapult)! Me, I'm a coward. I'm going to make mine BPF, as the kit is already configured. Good luck! Michael -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Alberto Rada" Subject: Blue Water Navy customer service-NOT Hi My only intention with this post is to help other friend-modelers to avoid my past miseries, I have had two past experiences with Blue Water Navy, first I bought from them the USS DDG Winston Churchill, when reviewing the parts list I found out that one of the Inflatable boats part 19 was missing, I emailed BWN and to make a long story short. It took me about 10 emails and 3 months to get the missing part, some time after that, I bought from Bob Santos the BWN USS Kidd, this time I also found out that one part Was missing, a platform in one of the funnels, I emailed Bob and we both agreed that it would be better if I would request the part directly from BWN. I sent them more that 10 emails till finally I got an answer informing me that the part had been shipped. I waited for about one month and nothing arrived, I asked for a mailing confirmation but He stated that it had gone through US Post so none was available, I asked to have the Part to be sent again that I would pay for it as well as UPS but got no response, I insisted For about 3 months with no result, I am sure it had never been shipped and I am sure this was a great economy for BWN, on my part, I will never again buy a model by them, this Is the ultimate weapon we consumers have. I have to state also hereby, that I have not had this disappointing experience with anyone else, I have bought several models (certainly many more that I will ever be able to make) from other Manufacturers, i.e. White Ensign Models, Commander Series Models, Cottage Industries etc. Without a single problem, whenever something has been missing or damaged, they have Immediately replaced it with no charge. SALUDOS Alberto Rada -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "Morley, James (London)" Subject: 1/350 aircraft Can anyone enlighten me........ Are there detailing accessories available for the 1/350 USN Aircraft for Tamiya's Enterprise. Nothing very fancy, drop tanks, missiles, that sort of thing. I was toying with the idea of back-converting to the pre 1982 version with beehive island (largely to take advantage of GMM's excellent, but otherwise unusable, Hi-Viz aircraft decals). Does anyone have any thoughts (like: "you have to be nuts"!). I was thinking of buying the Revell kit and scaling up the major components from that, then doing the details from reference. Thoughts welcome........ (resin aftermarket conversion set being planned would be more welcome!!!!!!!!!) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: KDur597268@aol.com Subject: Re: "SalemCon" As a ship modeling newbie, I'd sure be interested in the proposed convention aboard CA-139. either by mail or -schedule permitting - a visit. Ken -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: Ives100@aol.com Subject: Re: Philadelphia Project >> So what's the story on The Philadelphia Project, where a ship was allegedly teleported from one shipyard to another? << You want the X-Files version? Supposedly, an experiment to make ships "invisible", (whether to radar or sight depends on the version of the story), that instead led to teleportation of th ship to Norfolk Navy Yard. I remember there being a sci-fi NOVEL published, and I'm not sure that the story didn't subsequently take on an "urban legend" quality. I think that Charles Berlitz, the "researcher" (and I used that term advisedly, here) for the Bermuda Triangle, also wrote a bookon the subject. A guy over on the Naval Science Newsgroup keeps trying to convince everyone that the Phila, Experiment is part of a larger Gov't. conspiracy also involving "remote mind control". He posts very long pseudo-scientific arguements with just enough knowledge of physics to be dangerous. Needless to say, he gets a "warm" reception (read Flamed to a crispy brown) over on that newsgroup. The group is populated with ex-Navy enlisted and officers, which tend to be a technologically sophisticated crowd. The true story could be: 1.) nothing happended whatsoever, 2.) the ship was involved in a camo test for low visibility schemes, 3.) the ship received some sort of experimental coating, similar to the rubberized wire material used on German U-boat snorkels, to reduce radar signature or 4.) they really did have a working experimental "Transporter", which fortuitously transported the ship to Norfolk Navy Base (and not, say, the Arabian desert or the Bitterroot Valley of Montana). The technology existed in WWII, but has been hidden all these years, and kept under wraps to this day by a Gov't.- Auto Industry conspiracy. Yeah, Right! Tom Dougherty -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: "Katz, Gene S" Subject: Re: Cleaning Solutions for Plastics/Resin Howdy Y'all, I spoke with our professional model maker at work re: the subject. He makes all the AEGIS ship models here, for public display and presentations to Politicians and Admirals and prospective foreign buyers. He has a large workshop, lab, spray booth, budget, etc. Jealous? You bet I am, and he gets paid well also. Anyway, he uses a product called BESTINE, a thinner for old fashioned rubber cement. They also used it to clean off IBM selectric keyboards in days of old. He uses it to clean plastic stock and hulls, resin castings, etc. prior to priming and painting. Also, he always primes first regardless of the medium or surface, after cleaning with BESTINE. His models are mouth watering! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: Mike.Dunn@dresdner-bank.com Subject: Re: Enterprises (now very off-topic - well, for marine ships, anyway!) Shane wrote :- >> Ahh, someone's watched the Motionless picture then eh ;-)) Shane - who's prefers B5 now << Did you ever see the recut version? Tightened up the storyline, reduced the hours floating around the "new" Enterprise, and generally made a good picture out of it. B5 - good series - shame about Crusade............ - but I prefer S:A&B, even though it didn't last too long (but partly filmed down in Oz, as I recall) Mike (showing his real model preferences!) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: "Mark L. Shannon" Subject: Post-War Liberty Ships My father sailed in these as an officer of the Merchant Marine in the late '40's and has always wanted a model of one. Now that I am in the project, I have a few questions. References for the post-war configuration of a typical Liberty is sparse. Does anyone know of a good, relatively available source? I've tried the Jeremiah O'Brien and John Brown project sites, and am looking to get a bit more from them. I'm mainly looking for information about such things as floats locations, davit details, and what happened to the gun tubs after the armament was pulled. Mark L. Shannon The early bird gets the worm, but it's the second mouse that gets the cheese. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: "chenyangzhang" Subject: Prinz Eugen Hi Ken You basically have all the theories about the sinking. The PE one has always been a bit tenuous and it is fairly certain that it was the Bismark's shells which sunk the Hood. If you wish to read further there would be the report of the official court of inquiry and for the torpedo warhead theory the comments of The Director of Naval Construction S V Goodall, in 1941. Both of these should be available in the Public Records Office or the Maritime Museum at Grenwich (assuming you live in the UK). Chris Langtree -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: "chenyangzhang" Subject: The Philedelphia Experiment Hi Matt You can find the whole story in The Philidelphia Experiment by Charles Berlitz and William Moore. Whether you believe it is another matter. Chris Langtree -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: "Doremus, Mark" Subject: Naming USN Ships Folks, I understand naming ships after cities and states, especially ones represented by members of Armed Forces appropriating committees. I think it was Rickover who pointed out that "fish don't vote". I even get naming ships after famous battles, famous ships, Naval heroes and presidents. But what is the deal with naming ships after living people? Wasn't it a tradition that you had to be dead to get a ship named after you? What did Reagan (CV(N)) and Carter (SS(N)) do to avoid this previously mandatory death sentence? Mark Doremus Eden Prairie, MN -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: Brent Jernigan Subject: Re: Yamato Website There is a parallel english translation site for the TV Asahi Yamato website located at: http://www.titanic-online.com/yamato/index.htm. I don't know if this is the same site verbatim, or just another version from the French members of the team written in english. It's worth a look, though. Brent Jernigan -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: Dave Baker Subject: NASTY RUMBLES The reason the Nastys sounded like locomotives to John Sheridan was that their Napier Deltic diesel engines were originally developed in the U.K. for use in railway engines. The only USN facility for their maintenance was at Subic Bay, and the Deltic is long-gone from USN service (although still used in UK mine countermeasures ships). Best/Dave Baker -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: CBNJBB62@aol.com Subject: Re: Philadelphia Project Hi Concerning the Philadelphia Experiment. It's alleged that in October, 1943 that the USS ELRIDGE DE-173 of the Cannon class in an experiment to use an electromagnetic field to camouflage itself from radar or eyesight that caused the ship to be transported from Phillie to Norfolk, VA, did it happen? The story is the ship log for the first 3 months is lost yet on the Naval Historical center says it has on microfilm the ships history including the first 3 months when the experiment supposedly happen. OK let's talk about it. I have visited the Phillie yard about a half dozen times The Philadelphia Navy Yard is situated between 2 rivers: the Delaware River in the front and the Sckukill River behind it, around it actually sits on an island called league island. It was built in the late 1860s after the land was bought from the city for a buck. It actually is 2 facilities in one: Shipyard and base. Along the Delaware River is all the dry-docks, and piers. On the Suckle side was only the the yards rear entrance to a lake that serves as it does today for the mothball fleet. That lake did have docks for ships to tie up to and both sides were loaded with equipment and repair shops where any ship could be seen or hear about or from the cranes on the piers. In 1943 the yard was isolated from the city of Philadelphia there was a lot of rural area but the Delaware River area was always bustling with tugboats and fishing boats going down the river. I don't think it happened because the river is 2.5 miles wide there and on the N.J. side you had communities along it where the yard was in clear view. Well, I hope this of help to you. Craig Bennett -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: Bradford Chaucer Subject: Re: Philadelphia Project, >> So what's the story on The Philadelphia Project, where a ship was allegedly teleported from one shipyard to another? << Science fiction?? Regards, Bradford Chaucer -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: dhjonespsm@juno.com Subject: Re: Philadelphia Project, >> So what's the story on The Philadelphia Project, where a ship was allegedly teleported from one shipyard to another? << Swamp gas (according to the USAF - standard official explanation for such phenomena). The rumor inspired a really bad movie...... and there is a book, supposedly a history of the event, but it looks to me like a Charles Berlitz style scam - although I have not read it. Daniel Jones -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: Steve Singlar Subject: Re: SMML convention >> The US Naval & Shipbuilding Museum would be priveledged to host such an event aboard the USS Salem in Quincy, Massachusetts. (Lotsa the real things close by to climb all over too!). How about it? Any interest? << You've got my vote. Steve Singlar Pelham NH Volunteer #7 USS Salem CA-139 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: Ed Grune Subject: Re: Pit Road www page Welcome to the list, Yasumitsu. I just have one question. I went and looked at the Pitroad website and I am concerned by the title one one of the pages. It was titled WW-5 Naval Ships. Do they know something we don't know? Ed Mansfield, TX -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: Mau Cat Subject: Yamato Project '99: Day 6 (Typhoon delays work) Original page (with pictures) is at: http://www.tv-asahi.co.jp/yamato/html/soku_06.html Approximate English Translation of page: ---------------------------------------- Sunday August 22, Day 6, Typhoon in East China Sea delays recovery work A typhoon is raging this morning in the East China Sea, generating huge waves of 2 to 5 meters in height. Diving is not possible under these conditions but the weather is starting to improve. The captain and the diving staff are holding hourly meetings to assess the situation. Today we were scheduled to recover a large object the order of one ton such as a mast or high-angle gun shield. Work was going to start at 10 a.m. today but was postponed for two hours and will be cancelled if the weather does not ease by 1 p.m. Caption of the picture: (1) Picture of staff during meeting The "Yamato project '99" search team had been able to stay fairly close to the original schedule of work until today. They had taken survey photographs, recovered items from the ship, found the chrysanthemum crest, and confirmed the locations of the main guns on the ocean floor. The one remaining goal is to recover a big piece of the Yamato (something the order of 1 ton in weight) as a symbol of the great Battleship and then to finally leave the sleeping giant at peace. But the goal of recovering that big piece will have to wait for another day. We still have four more days to go until August 26, when we must finally leave the area. For now, we will work on producing a map of that shows the detailed locations of the remains of the Battleship Yamato as it rests on the ocean floor and look forward to the recovery of the big piece tomorrow. (See SMML23/08/99VOL646 for background and translations of previous 5 days of the dive) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: Dboykap@aol.com Subject: Re: IJN CV Shokaku, Pitroad URL The best color reference that I've ever come across, as well as probably the best visual reference, for the Shokakus is Gakken Books # 13 - Shokakus. If you've been on SMML for a while, you've probably noticed the periodic references to the Gakken series of softcover reference books. These are Japanese language modelers reference books which utilize museum quality, beautifully photographed 1/50, 1/100 & 1/200 models constructed by (God knows if I'll get the name right this time) the IJN Warships Preservation Society (or something to that effect), along with some historical material and photos. As a devoted IJNophile, I've never found a better resource. For example, despite all my other reference material, it wasn't until I closely studied these model photos that I finally understood how the aerials streaming from IJN carrier radio masts were affixed to the sponsons and flight deck edges: via small elongated, triangular girders. Colorwise, the Shokaku was constructed at Yokosuka NY and probably carried that shade of grey thru her carrier. The match to the S&S chip in Tamiya colors is XF-24, Dark Grey. If you're curious, you should check Jon Parshall's IJN site - Nihon Kaigun (via the Warships links) and click on the Kido Butai icon. There, you will find the TROMs (Tabular Records of Movement) that have been posted for the IJN carriers so as to view Shokaku's dockyard and repair record for possible alternatives based on where she was drydocked. Other good references include the Gran Prix GP-03 on IJN carriers, the just released Model-Art book vol. 3 (#537) on the same, Maru Specials #s 6 & 129 specifically on the Shokakus, as is Monographie Morskie #3. All the Japanese books are available thru Hobby Link or Pacific Front Hobbies here in the States. Incidentally, the early edition of Maru Special #6 and the Monographie Morskie have a couple of color plates each. Hope this is helpful. To the gentlemen who posted the URL for Pitroad, would you be so kind as to doublecheck and re-post. I couldn't raise the URL; maybe it's my set-up. Thanks. Dan Kaplan, NYC (where it is a beautiful, dry 70*F August night. Stay tuned, the dog days wil be right back.) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 21) From: WRPRESSINC@aol.com Subject: Belfast Camouflage In late 1942 the Belfast was painted in accordance with the prepared Admiralty Disruptive design that employed the following four colors on the vertical surfaces as follows:- 507a 507c B5 B6 The instructions for painting included the following:- Decks are to be painted 507a omitting Semtex or other composition if laid. Non slip paint may be used on decks where a non slip foot hold is necessary. If used this should be of a grey not lighter than 507a. Masts and crows nest are to be painted white. All athwartship vertical surfaces not shown on the diagram be painted 507c. The underside of all horizontal surfaces, overhangs to decks, bridge screens etc, to be painted white. That part of the deck itself that is overshadowed by the turrets should in each case be painted white. Boats should be painted white below the waterline. Boats chocks should be painted white. Cranes to be painted 507c. Decks under torpedo tubes should be painted white. Roofs of turrets should be painted 507a. I hope that this helps. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 22) From: "Craig Brown" Subject: Paddle wheelers in 1/64 Does anyone have any information about 1/64 paddle wheelers, either side wheel or stern wheel. I have a friend who models in 1/64 railroading and is looking for a kit to convert. I know this is not a deep water subject but thought if no one on the list knows then no one knows. Any help as to possible availability will be greatly appreciated. Craig Brown cprr@mvp.net -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 23) From: "Thorsten L. Wahl" Subject: Re: SMML convention and international survey Hi everybody, What a great idea, count me in! I´d say that´d be one great show. Thorsten from Munich, Germany (the ´international survey´ part ) -where the sun is shining and the Octoberfest is drawing nearer by the day :)) ´At least we don´t name our ships after our mothers-in-law.´ USS Reuben James to HMS Battleaxe -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 24) From: GrafSpee34@aol.com Subject: Admiral Scheer Color Just a quick comment about the dark blue-grey color attributed to the Admiral Scheer in Stern's book. I have reason to believe it is correct. Somewhere I have color photos taken of the Scheer after her refit. The photos show a distinctly blue-grey overall paint scheme. (A refueling ship in the background is medium grey, and the sailors skin tone and uniforms appear normal, so the blue color is not the result of color shift.) The paint may have been contracted by the KM, or aquired from an occupied country. The wooden decks were left their natural color. HTH Cheers Dave Krakow -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 25) From: "Edward F Grune" Subject: Battleship name thread ... Continuing on the battleship name thread, the second class battleship Texas was renamed to clear the name for use by what was to become the new Texas (BB-35). What was the name given the old Texas and what was her disposition? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 26) From: "Satin, Michael N. (SHEP)" Subject: Alaska and revolutionary designs Good morning all! I have a couple of questions today. The first is purely historical interest. I can think of two ships that have been revolutionary enough to have an entire type of ship named after them - Monitor and Dreadnought. Can anyone think of any others? My second question may raise more of a "discussion". I've seen two 1/350 USS Alaska's out there, Iron Shipwright's and Classic Warships'. Which is more accurate? CW claims that theirs is done off of more accurate plans, and is therefore better than any other kits. I know representatives of both companies use this list, and I certainly don't wish to slight either (I have IS's Nelson and LOVE it, and have had great service from them!), but I am interested as I hope to come into a bit of cash soon and thought I might like to get one to balance the upcoming ICM Hood [unfortunately, I'm not coming into enough cash to get WEM's kit:-( ] Also, any literature out there on Alaska? I seem to recall something having come out lately. Thanks everyone! Michael -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 27) From: Shane Subject: Re: Mystery ship Hi all, My apologies to all who posted replies on this topic for not thanking you earlier. Thanks a lot. Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 28) From: Shane Subject: Plastic Ship Modeller issue No 20 Hi again ;-), Well today, I got the latest PSM from WEM - thanks guys. Will be reading more throughly it after I've sent tonight's SMML out. But here are some first impressions. Firstly, I'd like to congratulate Dan & his contributors on yet another great issue. I look forward to reading Falks piece on the Askold, esp since I've just read the articles in Warship. Mick Cooper's article on scratchbuilding the MV Empire MacAlpine looks very interesting. Chris Drage's dioramas blew me away yet again. There's that & more in this issue. I, personally, have a better understanding after helping Mistress Lorna put out two APMA magazines of the challenges that Dan must face for each issue. So kudos to you Dan for another fine issue. If you don't subscribe to PSM, you're missing out on a great magazine. Shane - who's looking forward to the next PSM already ;-)) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 29) From: "Satin, Michael N. (SHEP)" Subject: Des Moines Man, am I a pest today or what? OK, assuming for some unknown reason the Alaska doesn't work out, how about the Des Moines? I know CW makes the Salem and it says it could be made as Des Moines as well, but is there an earlier version out there (during the war)? Is there any book or info. out there on this ship? I think it would look very cool with the Iowa which I'm also planning to do. As you may have figured out, I'm from Iowa originally and spent several years in Des Moines, so this is a real possibility for me. Thanks again! Michael -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Loren Perry Subject: GMM 1/350 Missouri set & GMM Extra Railing The 1/350 Missouri PE detail set from Gold Medal Models provides more railing than is needed to complete the model. This will allow the modeler to make a few mistakes and still have enough to finish the project. As for additional railing, the GMM No. 350-18 Extra USN Railing set has about 5,000 scale feet of railing and is of exactly the same pattern and style as that in the No. 350-4 1/350 Missouri detail set, so both railing sets will match perfectly. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: Loren Perry Subject: e-mail failures To any customers of Gold Medal Models who have tried to e-mail me, please be advised that once in a while when I return a message, I will receive a "warning" that my e-mail transmission has been temporarily held up for some sort of technical reason. Be advised that I personally answer ALL e-mails. No one is ever ignored. Everyone receives a response, and usually within 24 hours or less. Sometimes the delay in answering can be as much as one week if I'm out of town, but never more than that. So if you've sent a question via e-mail and don't receive an answer, the problem is likely of a technical nature. Try e-mailing us again and if possible, give an alternate address that we can send our reply to. Loren Perry/GMM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "Caroline Carter" Subject: WHITE ENSIGN MODELS WEBPAGES UPDATED AND a bunch of new Royal Navy and Ocean Liner videos now available... please check it out! http://www.white.ensign.models.dial.pipex.com/news.htm http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/white.ensign.models/news.htm PS: Sorry about the delays over the past 2 weeks... Jackie, our packer, has been off with shingles. This coincided with one of our busiest periods ever with Plastic Ship Modeler arriving into the bargain and a lot of subs to ship.. Have missed not posting stuff to SMML but will be having a trawl to see if Dave or I can answer any "unanswereds" later this week! Thanks, Caroline Carter White Ensign Models From a very wet Herefordshire... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume