Subject: SMML05/09/99VOL659 Date: Mon, 06 Sep 1999 00:58:50 +1000 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: IPMS UK National Ship classes 2: Heller E-mail, bombs 3: Re: IPMS(USA) Nats 4: Re: Query (pre-war USN paint) 5: S.S. RED OAK VICTORY 6: Re: Corticene decks 7: Re: Demologos 8: Re: IPMS(USA) Nats 9: Re: (wrong) Petropavlovsk 10: Re: 4-stack DDs 11: 271 radar 12: M33 13: Re: Deck Materials WW 1 Monitors 14: Re: OT: Airplane modeling question 15: Re: Figthing Steel 16: Re: Battle of the River Plate 17: Re: IPMS(USA) 2000 Nats 18: Thanks and IPMS(USA) Y2K info 19: New product rumors from Viking 20: Re: Battle of the River Plate 21: Current models and rumours 22: Fulton's steam battery Demologos 23: HMS Nelson/HMCS Haida Thanks! 24: Re: Demologos 25: Re: M-33 monitor, Demologos, and IPMS(USA) convention flap. 26: Re: Graf Spee Movie; SMML Convention 27: SMML meet 28: Battle of the River Plate 29: Re: 1/400 TONE 30: Battle of the River plate/HMNZS Achillies. 31: Flush deck four stackers 32: Y2K US Nationals 33: Current projects -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "brian lawrence fawcett" Subject: IPMS UK National Ship classes Hi Shane, Could you put this statement on the list for me ? It might calm a few people. The top couple of lines of it are just for your information. Thank's Brian. From: "John Tapsell" To: Subject: IPMS Ship Classes Brian Thanks for the offer of your good offices in trying to sort out the controversy over the IPMS Ship Classes. Here goes - It has come to my attention that a number of ship modellers are unhappy with the revised ship classes at this year's IPMS(UK) Nationals. It is unfortunate that such concerns were not addressed to me as soon as they were identified. Instead, it would seem, a lively discussion has taken place on SMML. This raises two issues. Firstly, I am not a ship modeller and therefore was unaware that such a forum existed. Whilst White Ensign Models and several IPMS(UK) Committee members have been approached, with the exception of Graham Walker, no ship modellers contacted the IPMS(UK) Competition Secretary with their comments. This led to my assumption that Graham's comments were not representative of other ship modellers. Thus, when White Ensign became involved, it gave the impression that they were attempting to influence, as a commercial organisation, the classes within the competition. Both views appear to inaccurate but since nobody attempted to contact me directly at an earlier stage, I was unaware that a problem existed. The second, wider issue, is that whilst SMML is an extremely valuable resource for ship modellers, it is only available to those ship modellers with internet access. Since the number of IPMS(UK) members with internet access is currently estimated at around 10-15%, you will appreciate that such a forum is not the ideal venue to discuss an issue that affects all ship modellers within the Society. As an armour modeller, I would not presume that AFV News or Track-Link, for example, were the correct forums to discuss changes in the IPMS(UK) rules (especially when the Competition Secretary's postal and Email address are widely available). There are two myths I would like to kill off here and now. Myth 1 is that there is a class that only allows models to be built 'out-of-the-box'. Class 51 is for plastic kits that are built from the box, with or without added detail and/or converted. On reflection, the description is unclear, but once again, if I had been approached earlier, I could have clarified the issue before it got out of hand. Myth 2 is that I did not consult with any ship modellers before changing the classes. It is precisely because both myself and my predecessor were approached by ship modellers, that I decided to alter the classes. By catering for the needs of one faction within the fraternity, I have obviously upset another. The changes were made in good faith with the information made available to me at the time. I hope this has gone some way to explaining why I made the decision to change the classes and also laid to rest some of the myths that have grown up around those classes. In closing, I can only say that am not clairvoyant - If modellers don't tell the Competition Secretary that they are unhappy with his decisions, he can't be expected to resolve them. Regards John Tapsell IPMS(UK) National Competition Secretary -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: KDur597268@aol.com Subject: Heller E-mail, bombs To the person who is ISO Heller's e-mail address, here's what I have, with a brief explanation, so I don't know what results you'll have. On August 1st or 2nd I emailed Heller with a parts request, using an e-mail address I got from Al Superczynski - I no longer have that address as AOL or IE4 only saves the last 30 days, BUT - 2 weeks later I got a response from Heller "Flash Service", not from the address I had sent to, but from: mailto:73674.131@compuserve.com with the name Nelly Blaise in parenthesis after the address. So I think this is the address to try. SitRep - I had also written them snailmail on August 1 asking for replacement hull halves for my Bismarck. I responded to the above e-mail telling "Nelly" that I had done so, but nevertheless providing her with my snaildress and all to, you know, cover all the bases. So far, I have heard nothing, but since the email correspondance happened mid-August I'm not going to start really wondering until mid-September. Oh, by the way, a C-clamp makes a fairly decent bomb holder for painting. Alternatively, I stick a loop of masking tape (cheap way-too-sticky stuff) on a strip of balsa wood and slightly press the bomb/missile fins into the wood. It''ll hold the item upright long enough for the paint to dry. Often I don't even have to touch-up the fin tips. Ken Durling -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: IPMS(USA) Nats As I said in an earlier post, I spoke to Penny about this as well and offered an alternate solution that would give IPMSers a break and allow everyone in the vendors room. I suggested that anyone with a current IPMS card be given a special ticket to be shown along with photo ID and their IPMS card to the vendors good for 10% or 15% off. This way IPMSers could enjoy a special discount that the non-IPMSers would not. It could have been extended to tours and special door prizes as well. Sounded like a plan to me and it would stop all the trouble stirred up among the vendors or isolating anyone. She never said anything else about it so I assume she wants to continue with her plan. Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. http://www.okclive.com/flagship/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: "John Snyder" Subject: Re: Query (pre-war USN paint) The prewar USN gray--Standard Navy Gray #5--was adopted in 1919 and remained unchanged until its replacement by the purple-blue paints beginning in 1941. Regarding the level of gloss, that well may have changed, and could affect the tonal perception in photographs. The other thing that could have affected tonal perception is indeed change of film types. Prior to the mid-1930s, black-and-white films were orthochromatic (blue-sensitive). That means that they tended to render blues in very pale tonal shades in the final print (notice how the sky always looks washed out in old prints). Beginning in the mid-1930s, modern panchromatic black-and-white films were introduced; these render a gray tonal range more in keeping with the way the eye perceives the tones in color. That said, however, ortho films remained in widespread use well into the 1950s (I used a lot of it as a kid), and panchromatic film was less widely used until about 1950. The performance of orthochromatic could be (and often was) altered by the use of filters on the lens. Finally, the final print could be manipulated in the darkroom by dodging and burning-in. So there are a lot of variables that could explain the perceived difference of the appearance of Standard Navy Gray #5 in period photos. But the paint itself didn't change. Standard Navy Gray #5 (and Standard Deck Gray #20, adopted at the same time) are included in our U.S. Navy Paint Chip Set 1, and were matched to actual original samples. John Snyder Snyder & Short Enterprises The Paint Guys -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: "John Snyder" Subject: S.S. RED OAK VICTORY I had occasion to be aboard this ship, now berthed in Richmond, California, the other day (I'll shortly be under contract to the Foundation, helping them obtain funding for her restoration, helping them through the environmental process, and providing technical preservation guidance--wearing my other--P.S. Preservation Services--hat). I managed to obtain a few paint samples, so will be performing paint analysis to see what colors she wore through her history. Anyway, after the meeting I had the opportunity to just wander around topside. When I climbed into the gun tub for the (missing) 5" mount on the fantail, I was surprised to find that the foundation for the mount pedestal consisted of a ring of steel infilled with--wood! It's a detail one would never see since the mount would completely cover it, but it was still interesting. For any in the S.F. Bay area, she's open to the public for a nominal fee. She's in somewhat rough shape topside, but below decks she's in pretty good shape and a real time capsule. John Snyder Snyder & Short Enterprises The Paint Guys -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: "John Snyder" Subject: Re: Corticene decks Corticene is one of the colors included in our RN Paint Chip Set 1. This is a WW2 set, so I don't know for sure that it's the same color as Corticene from WW1, but perhaps the folks at WRPress might.... John Snyder Snyder & Short Enterprises The Paint Guys -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: Bradford Chaucer Subject: Re: Demologos >> I'm trying to find drawings for the Demologos, the first steam powered warship. I have the dimensions and historical particulars, but I can't seem to find any pictures of her. I would particularly like to see how the catamaran hulls were fastened together. Was the gap between faired over? If so, was it just down to the waterline? The paddle wheel was situated between the two hulls, making it nearly shotproof. Clever fellow, that Fulton. << I recall that one of the ship modeling mags did a 2 or 3 part article on scratch building the Demologos, but I don't recall which one it was. The article came out over 5 years ago IIRC. Regards, Bradford Chaucer -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: Bradford Chaucer Subject: Re: IPMS(USA) Nats >> I spoke to Penny Thomas about three weeks ago about this very subject. I tried my best to persuade her to not restrict admission for the first two days to IPMS members only but she is adamant about it. She had a number of good reasons for doing this, but I just don't agree. There is still a lot of time until the Nats. next year. Here's hoping she changes her mind. << Is that all IPMS members or just members of the local? Regards, Bradford Chaucer -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: Pieter Cornelissen Subject: Re: (wrong) Petropavlovsk >> The admiral in this case was the Baltic Fleet's Rozhdestvsky, but I'll bet the Far East Fleet's Makarov had to contend with the same bureaucrats. << Marc, thanks for taking the time to research this, but I'm afraid I'm building another Petropavlovsk (I do have the 1894 Petropavlovsk on my 'still to build' list). The 1914 dreadnought type Petropavlovsk was named after the famous ship in which admiral Makarov lost his life. It is technically a very interesting ship with a rather peculiar design rationale (she was designed as a mobile defense for the St Petersburg mine barrier) and the best fire control of the era. Half-sister Imperatritsa Marya kept SMS Goeben under accurate fire at over 35000 yards....in 1914 (25 years before radar control). As an aside to the political ship names thread, Petropavlovsk's only claim to fame is as the ship on which the 1921 Kronstadt revolution started, the last full scale internal challenge to the power of the communist party until 1989. After this -1923- she was renamed after the organiser of the French revolutionary terror in 1795, Marat. Marat may well have been an inspiration for Trotsky and Dzerzhinsky when they surpressed the Kronstadt revolution. Ironically, by the time she got her old name back in 1943 both Dzerzhinsky and Trotsky had been killed by that same terror regime..... Now that is political namegiving. I'm planning to finish Petropavlovsk as in 1921, which I assume to be a very dirty (the ships were not well kept during the Civil War) version of her 1917 paint scheme. Still, anyone know what paint scheme this was? Pieter Cornelissen Delft, The Netherlands -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: "John Snyder" Subject: Re: 4-stack DDs First, the decks were steel, not wood. As to books, look for: Norman Friedman's _U.S. Destroyers: An Illustrated Design History_; Arnold Hague's _Destroyers for Great Britain_; Ships of the World _History of U.S. Destroyers_ (printed in Japan, with Japanese text, but excellent photos--occasionally be available from Pacific Front Hobbies); Norman Friedman's _U.S. Naval Weapons_. John Snyder Snyder & Short Enterprises The Paint Guys -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: WRPRESSINC@aol.com Subject: 271 radar Try the book ' Radar at Sea' by Derek Howse. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: WRPRESSINC@aol.com Subject: M33 You need to refer to the 'as fitted' plans held at the National Maritime Museum and also the ships specification book which is also held at the museum. If the former does not give details, or enough details, then the latter will. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: "J. London" Subject: Re: Deck Materials WW 1 Monitors From illustrations in Ian Buxton's book BIG GUN MONITORS it would appear that the decks of the M Class monitors were painted steel, usually hull colour. The accompanying layout drawing notes that the decks had coconut matting strips but just how extensive these were and their layout is unclear. Since these ships were wartime expedients it is unlikely that corticene linoleum was used. Mike London -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: "Alpaslan Ertungealp" Subject: Re: OT: Airplane modeling question >> I'm about to paint some 500lb General Purpose WWII bombs. I assume the colors are Olive Drab overall, with a yellow ring (1/2" wide 6" from the tip) an a metalic spinner. On this kit the bombs have a slot in the bomb for attaching to the bomb rack. Does anybody have an idea for some way to hold the bombs while I airbrush them and get the entire bomb painted in one set-up? << Hi, Try the following link. It is at HyperScale modeling web site. It is a general article on holding parts for airbrushing. http://www.hyperscale.com/reference/airbrushingjk_1.htm ALP -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: AllenFW2@aol.com Subject: Re: Figthing Steel I concur...it is a pretty entertaining game once you get used to some of it's quirks. I did have a number of serious problems with it initially...just needed to download a couple of patches from the Fighting Steel site. I guess what I like most about it is that I've been able to blast the Bismarck's sorry bottom out of the water on several occasions (using HMS Hood of course...I just make sure not to make the same mistakes Admiral Holland made). Very gratifying indeed. Now if I could only go up against Yamato...LOL Frank Allen Editor, "Battle Cruiser Hood" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: CA139JOHNF@aol.com Subject: Re: Battle of the River Plate Shane wrote: >> The movie is indeed called "The Battle of the River Plate". This has just recently been re-released on video here in Australia. It has some great shots of the ships involved in making the film, which included the INS Delhi - which was the HMNZS Achilles. << Oh Shane you have greviously struck me where it hurts the most. You neglected to mention the "Star" of the movie. The ship that portrayed the Admiral Graf Spee was none other than the USS Salem (CA139). John Frohock USNSM "The mess boys ate them strawberries, and i'll proove it!" Hi John, Oops - that what I get for only looking up the Achilles. If I had noticed the Salem, I would have mentioned it. Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: "Kelvin Mok" Subject: Re: IPMS(USA) 2000 Nats >> I talked to Penny about this recently. The reason the Dallas chapter is doing this is to provide IPMS members a benefit for being an IPMS member. This is an IPMS convention and members ought to have privileges that the non-members don't. So, on Wednesday night and all day Thursday, members will be the only ones allowed in the vendor rooms. << One would have thought that on the single opportunity in the year when an IPMS chapter has a chance to show the public its pride and work the organizers want keep the public out. And as far as the members are concerned there are enough opportunities for mutual admiration and backscratching during regular meets. One more occassion doesn't do anything for them. Any hobby club should only be too glad to attract new members, especially among the kids and kids need to bring along their parents who may not share the hobby. This is a hobby and its supposed to be fun for the whole family. There are no reputations at stake. As far as the vendors are concerned, all they see are the number of people who show and couldn't care less if they are IPMS members or not. Why try to convert the already converted. Really, as a hobbyist I already know what kits and best prices that are available and don't need a vendor to show me. But the public will benefit seeing how rich the selection in the hobby is. An impulse buy by a newcomer would get a new recruit into the hobby. I hang around quite a few hobby clubs in my city and this "members only" mentality, usually by an executive that doesn't have a life outside their monomania, may work for one anniversary show before the participtataion and turnout sags the next year. By the third year only the "purists" remain to award themseves all the prizes because there just aren't enough contest entries anymore. And few ordinary members care because the wifes and kids aren't welcome. Then it takes a new executive a lot of effort to revive interest in the club again. Kelvin Mok (klmok@home.com) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: Ed Grune Subject: Thanks and IPMS(USA) Y2K info The thanks ... First of all; I'd like to thank Charles Jerden for the kind words about my Fletcher and Bushnell's Turtle. I'll also thank him in behalf of Marc Flake for his comment's on Marc's Yorktown. You can see the Yorktown on some of the WEM Airstrike photos. I think Marc and I took all of the ship model ribbons at the Ft Worth contest. I'd also like to thank John Snyder and Mike Quan for sending information on the Evans/Mansfield off list, and for everyone who responded on list about this ship. She didn't have a spectacular career. Launched in 1918, lent in 1940 and worn out by 1943. {Mansfield, TX and Mansfield, England have this sister-city thing starting so I dare not say anything about whom the worn out ship was named for ... maybe its Mansfield, Ohio. Now ducking for cover from comments coming from the Buckeye State!} As far as the Dallas IPMS convention next year, Charles has a few of his facts wrong. Penny Thomas is not the president of the local chapter. Jimmy Sockwell is. Penny is the Region 6 coordinator and the convention chairman. [Penny won't mind if I'm not being PC.] Yes, there has been discussions with the IPMS National organization about closing the convention to non-IPMS members for the first day-and-a-half as a perk of membership. There has been no agreement as to either position yet. Rusty's inputs, as well as opinions pro and con from other people across the country have been listened to and it is hoped that a consenus will be arrived at soon. Penny has been hospitalized recently and has yet to return to talks with the E-board. As far as loosing help from the Ft Worth chapter, the North Texas chapter solicited assistance from the other local chapters more than a year-and-a-half ago when we started making bid plans. Since we received no firm committments, we planned to go it alone. That has been the plan all along. This is not to say that assistance wouldn't be welcome. We have already contacted the Texas Aircraft Factory as well as other local attractions about tours. Penny's hospitalization coupled with some last minute glitches in the facilities floor plan provided by the hotel has delayed the mailing of the vendor packets. They are being finalized and it is hoped that they will be mailed on Tuesday after this long Labor Day weekend. I hope that myself, Mike Quan, Marc Flake and other people associated with the IPMS Y2K convention will be able to see and meet as many of our SMML friends as possible, and to be good hosts for our "town". That way, when you put on a similar event, we can come be good guests. Having said all of this, the purpose of the post which re-raised this discussion was to identify a potential SMML-Con scheduling problem early-on so that all interested parties could attend as many events as they see fit, so as there wouldn't be conflicting dates or pocketbook considerations. I do not believe that SMML is the correct format for the discussion of these proposed policy changes. In this instance I agree with Greg that this should be an off thread subject. If anyone has any additional questions, comments, or other discussion points please contact me off the list. If I cannot answer your question I can find the answer or can put you in contact with someone who can. Thanks Ed Mansfield (the other one), TX -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: Ed Grune Subject: New product rumors from Viking Hello SMMLies; I came across a new product brochure from Verlinden/VLS wholesalers dated September, 1999 which listed the following new items as being planned by Viking. There was no date or availability associated with any of these items. USS Houston (CA-30) in both 1/350 and 1/700 PT Boat in 1/35 (yes thirty-fifth, a large hunk-o-resin) USS Essex CV in 1/350 " several oceanographic subjects. The listing also had the announcement of a Brown Water Navy River Monitor and a PBR in 1/72. These were on the shelf at my local store. I have both of these from Dan Joplin's previous life as Joplin f/x models. I didn't open either box. The monitor is now whole-hull. IMO he's corrected the bow turret and added etched bar armor. The PBR is also whole hull. On the box it looks basically unchanged from before. In my earlier one, the machine guns were very poorly cast and I replaced them with ESCI 1/72 armor parts and ROCO parts. I ran into a stumbling-block making the canopy frame. I don't know if the new one is any better. I ran into Mike Quan buying Indy car models and Marc Flake buying Star Wars models. He said they were for his son. We might want to check to see if he's really a closet SciFi modeler. Ed Mansfield, TX I admit I was looking for the new Cobra Company 1/144 B24D conversion nose for the Minicraft B24J. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: "arthur" Subject: Re: Battle of the River Plate Hi Brian, The original film 'The Battle Of The River Plate' is available in NZ on video from Videon, Auckland. I saw it 3 months ago and from memory it had the USS Salem acting as the Graf Spee. If you want a copy email me off list at mailto:arfabuck@ps.gen.nz Arthur -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 21) From: "Phil Gollin" Subject: Current models and rumours I have just finished a waterline 1/350th White Ensign HMS Sheffield - which between a brilliant kit with very (needfully) helpful instructions has helped make it my "best one yet" - I'm very pleased with it. I know my painting hasn't done justice to it but it's beautiful to me. Next, probably, I will go back and start a new (probably my fifth) version of the first kit I ever made - an Airfix 1/600th Suffolk - a beautiful ship - but an awful kit. And what kit would I like to make? - definately a Black Swan Sloop - both beautiful & deadly. If someone doesn't produce a 1/350th kit soon, I'll have to build an extension and get the Fleetscale 1/48th scale one !!! As an aside - one fact and lots of rumours ; 1: A Fact: A friend brought back from Japan a Fujimi 1/700th kit (44126) of CV-64 USS Constellation "1999". Obviously a 'sister' kit to the Kitty Hawk, although as I haven't been able to get a Kitty Hawk I can't tell you the differences. Plus various rumours - 2: A Strong Rumour Revell are 'due' to produce a limited edition (? 6,000) of the ex-Matchbox 1/72nd FLOWER Class Corvette - 'due' this November - approximate price in UK £60. (I hope this one is correct as I'm a Flower fanatic). 3: Almost as Strong Rumour The Tamiya 1/48th Swordfish has had more advanced orders than any other 1/48th scale aircraft, which is one of the reasons for its delay (as well as the interplane rigging). Because of this Tamiya are thinking of doing a 1/48th Walrus. 4: A Vague Rumour Tamiya have been very disappointed with the sales of the 1/350th Fletchers and are thinking in future of going to 1/200th scale. If so their first two kits might be a Royal Navy "O"-Class destroyer and also a "Fletcher" class (I don't see the logic there myself). If those sell then the third option would be a Baltimore cruiser. 5: A Wild Rumour There are vague rumours "out east" that a Hong Kong Chinese company are thinking of doing a 1/72nd Hunt Class Escort destroyer as an Injection Moulded Plastic Kit. Phil -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 22) From: Bradford Chaucer Subject: Fulton's steam battery Demologos Received the following from Clayton Feldman on the Model Shipways mailing list. For those ot familiar, Clay is the publisher of the fine publication Ships in Scale. Plans for the Fulton steam battery can be found in Donal Caney's "The Old Steam Navy", Volume I, from Naval Institute Press, Chuck. There is also a photo of the model of her from the Smithsonian. Clay Regards, Bradford Chaucer -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 23) From: Michael Eisenstadt Subject: HMS Nelson/HMCS Haida Thanks! Folks: Just a quick thanks to all those who responded to my queries concerning the HMS Nelson and HMCS Haida, and to Shane and Mistress Lorna for making it all possible. Best wishes, Mike Eisenstadt -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 24) From: "Kenneth H. Goldman" Subject: Re: Demologos On Friday, I bought a copy of MAN-OF-WAR by Donald MacIntyre (yup, that Donald MacIntyre), and on page 78 are three hull drawings of Robert Fulton's Demologos: cross section, deck plan, profile. There isn't a lot of information in them, but they might help. The total text about her is, "The result, too late to take part in the war [1812] and completed after Fulton's death, was the steam frigate Demologos, a double vessel with a paddle-wheel between the two hulls. She was 156 feet long and armed with twenty-four 32-pounder guns. The Demologos was destroyed by an explosion of her magazine in 1829." Ken Goldman THE WALRUS AND THE CARPENTER http://www.wman.com/~khgold -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 25) From: dhjonespsm@juno.com Subject: Re: M-33 monitor, Demologos, and IPMS(USA) convention flap. David Hathaway writes: >> I am building a model of a WWI RN 6-inch gun monitor - it's M33, currently being restored in Portsmouth, UK. I am building the model in card/paper in 1:250 to show her as built state (1915). As a result - I need to know what the decks were covered in then, as the photo's I have arent't clear and could also be wrong comapred to her as built state. << In Ian Buxton's book "Big Gun Monitors" there is a very good photo of M-30 and a plan of M-18. On the plan notes it states that the decks were painted steel with coconut mat walkways. The photo of M-30 appears to confirm this - showing a smooth surface that appears to be painted the same shade of grey as the hull and superstructure. The shelter deck (above the deckhouses) does indeed appear to be slightly darker - suggesting that it would have been covered with a nonslip material - probably corticene. If you have access to this book the relevant pages are 102 and 105. The photo has no source information. Looking at it under a glass it appears that there are seams running port to starboard so I would hazard a guess that the strips were laid width wise. This is just a guess however. The photo shows the ships M-33 and M-31 under construction and nearly complete and is the best view I have found for modeling reference. Chuck Messer writes: >> I'm trying to find drawings for the Demologos, the first steam powered warship. I have the dimensions and historical particulars, but I can't seem to find any pictures of her. I would particularly like to see how the catamaran hulls were fastened together. Was the gap between faired over? If so, was it just down to the waterline? The paddle wheel was situated between the two hulls, making it nearly shotproof. << There is only one drawing I am aware of and it will not answer your questions. It has been published in several books, including a monograph on the ship by the Smithsonian Institute. I wish I could give you an exact title or author but it appears I no longer have this item in my collection. However, the drawing was also published in the following: "Twin Ships" by Alexander Crosby Brown ( Mariner's Museum 1939) (paper cover booklet), and "American Ships" by Alexander Laing (American Heritage Press 1971). Laing's book should be fairly easy to locate on the used book market or through interlibrary loan. I would suggest the latter as I think you will find the limited information disappointing. If the drawing (the original is from a book called "Naval and Mail Steamers of the USA" by Stuart published in 1853) is accurate she is an incredibly ugly ship. Marc Flake writes: >> About limiting the general public to two days: I talked to Penny about this recently. The reason the Dallas chapter is doing this is to provide IPMS members a benefit for being an IPMS member. << Actually I think, it as more to do with the concept that a IPMS member might miss out on something in the vendor's stacks - God forbid! Is this paranoid or what? >> I'll be joining IPMS this year so I can get into that vendor room on Wednesday night. And if I like what IPMS provides for me this year in the way of cameraderie and advice, I'll probably re-up next year. It makes sense to me, but I'm willing to listen to other comments. << For those who do not already know, I was a co-founder (one of 5 of course) of the Denver-Rob Wolf IPMS(USA) chapter and, though I have currently let my membership lapse, have been associated with the club locally and nationally since the beginning, including a stint as editor of both the old Update and Quarterly magazines. So much for my bonafides as regards this organization. This is quite frankly the silliest idea I have ever seen in IPMS. I was planning to attend this convention but I am now reconsidering - simply because most of the vendors I would be most interested in are pulling out. I have been told that one of the local chapter poobahs made the remark that the "contest was the only important part" and "we don't need the vendors anyway". In addition to seeing the models and scrounging for books in the vendors room, I mainly go to the conventions to meet friends, but in this case it appears that most of them no longer plan to attend. If the ship vendors and many of my friends are no longer going - why should I? I do not compete in model contests (no interest) so there is little reason to make the drive. I do not know any of the folks in this group, but my sincere advice to them would be to remember the old adage that the customer is always right. In this case that means the people who will be attending, and if I have heard correctly, the opinions are strongly in the majority for scrapping this idea. Is anyone listening???? Well, that should put a cat amongst the pidgeons..... Daniel Jones Plastic Ship Modeler magazine -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 26) From: rcmarelius@earthlink.net Subject: Re: Graf Spee Movie; SMML Convention The movie "Battle of River Plate" was also released under the title "Pursuit of the Graf Spee." I just watched it again recently on a tape I made from a Turner broadcast some years ago. In addition to INS Delhi as the HMS Achilles that Shane mentioned, it also starred HMS Sheffield as HMS Ajax, HMS Jamaica as HMS Exeter, HMS Cumberland as herself, and our good friend the USS Salem as the Graf Spee. On Convention matters, let me second Bradford's thoughts on associating with museum ships. Late spring seems like a good time to avoid conflicts with the IPMS USA & UK conventions, and maybe future SMMLCons could be held in other parts, away from the IPMS shows (West Coast or Hawaii in 2001, if IPMS is going to Chicago?). This would allow those who can't make the IPMS shows a chance to go to a SMMLCon, and for those who can make both, they're not too close together timewise. Logistically, trying to coordinate with the IPMS convention would probably limit the SMML activities to the luncheon and special contest class as is being done now, and would limit the participation of our vendor friends who have to man their tables. I like Jeffs ideas on keeping things somewhat informal, with model displays, but no judging. Vendor showcase and auction and/or raffle to benefit the hosting museum would be a nice touch. Let's have some fun here. On the workbench is too much stuff, so I've moved to the dining table. In work is a WEM Invincible with a WEMized Skywave Type 42, the infamous 1/200 Y***** which never seems to go away, and am just finishing the new mold Tamiya 1/700 Y***** to prove to myself that I can finish something. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 27) From: "Kenneth H. Goldman" Subject: SMML meet I prefer the original idea of having the get together aboard USS Salem, and vote for a Fall time frame of September or October. I also favor keeping this separate from IPMS. Ken Goldman THE WALRUS AND THE CARPENTER http://www.wman.com/~khgold/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 28) From: "Simon Wolff" Subject: Battle of the River Plate Brian The film was Battle of the River Plate (aka Pursuit of the Graf Spee). Jack Hawkins did not appear in the movie. The movie starred John Gregson, Anthony Quale and Peter Finch (as Kapitan Langsdorff). It was written, produced and directed by Michael Powell and Emeric Pressburger two famous directors. The film was released by The Rank Organisation and released in 1956. The copy I got came from a UK Mail Order firm. The film is first class and must rank (excuse the pun) as one of the best naval Movies ever produced and lots of lovely shots of warships! and stiff upper lip stuff.. The film was shown on TV here in Australia only a few months ago. I remember the film about the attack on RN Battleships as being made in the 50's but can't find any info on it.. yet! Changing subjects, but it is really great to hear that the Cabot may be saved! More power to the elbows of the guys wanting to preserve her... you have this modellers best wishes (I converted the Skywave Independence class carrier to the Dedalo some years ago). Please keep us up to date on her fate.. Simon Hi gang, Simon is being un-charecteristically shy ;-)). You can view his model of the Dedalo at the APMA site: http://www.tac.com.au/~sljenkins/apma.htm It's located under member models. Shane VP APMA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 29) From: Rick Heinbaugh Subject: Re: 1/400 TONE Chris Evenden wrote: >> Someone told me awhile back that there is (was?) a model of the Tone available in, I think, 1/400. Can anyone confirm this? If it's true, can someone provide me with details of manufacturer, availability etc. << Around 1971, a friend had a 1/400 Japan Hobby TONE and I was only able to find MOGAMI (in the a/c carrying config). I don't know how old the kits were then, and I don't remember much about the quality. I remember considerably less surface detail than the Nichimo 1/500 kits, but that's about all. The only other Japan Hobby kits I have seen were JMSDF MINEGUMO, in 1/300 scale. I still have a couple of those, somewhere. I only know that we found the cruisers in small hobby shops in the Seattle area (both gone now) and don't know what distributor imported them. Neither of us have seen any more of those kits since that day. Rick Heinbaugh -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 30) From: "Martin Short" Subject: Battle of the River plate/HMNZS Achillies. A bit of trivia here, and the more learned Kiwi's may wish to clarify this further... From memory, INS Dehli (ex HMNZS Achillies) was offered back to the NZ goverment, but like the short sighted pack of wombats they tend to be, our Politicians declined. What we ended up with was one of the Main turrets, and the main director. I don't know which particular turret. These relics have been half heartedly installed on concrete plinths outside the Aircraft building of MOTAT (museum of transport and technology), instead of outside the Navy museum or in the Maritime park, which would have been more fitting resting places. When I last visited, both the turret and director were in a sad condition, suffering at the hands of vandals, and taggers, a major shame. As much a shame as the brits scrapping all their battleships despite public pressure to preserve something! Anyway, I know where to go, to accurise the turrets on my Airfix Ajax, should some drastic happen like actually starting to build it. Cheers, Martin -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 31) From: Duane Fowler Subject: Flush deck four stackers Hello Tom, Two of the best resources on the four stackers are: "Anatomy of the Ship: The Destroyer Campbeltown" by Al Ross, and "Flush Decks and Four Pipes" by John Alden. Both are out of print, I believe, but you might find them if you check http://www.bookfinder.com. The first has terrific drawings and the second has lots of great photos. The decks were metal, not wood, as evident in several overhead photos. Best regards, Duane Fowler -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 32) From: Duane Fowler Subject: Y2K US Nationals Hello Marc, Perhaps if none of the vendors showed up the people in Dallas would get a feeling of just how stupid their plan is. After all, it takes quite a bit of investment just to go, and if the vendors see that access is restricted and that their return on invvestment will be limited, there isn't much incentive to go, now is there? It will sure be great picking over the "the rare, hard-to-find, out-of-production kits and books" at both vendor tables, now won't it? Wouldn't it be better to offer the greatest incentive to the the people who actually pay for a good portion of the conference? Makes sense to me. And if this is "what IPMS provides for me this year in the way of camaraderie and advice" I would tell them that that sound exactly like what the military recruiter told me 25 years ago just before boot camp. Small minds make nearsighted decisions. Best regards, Duane Fowler -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 33) From: John Clements Subject: Current projects Easy to see where my interests lie! I have just finished the 1/700 WEM Buttercup and am about to start the WEM Jervis. However, I am also trying to finish a Skywave Independence, which gets put aside every time another WEM kit arrives, and also have an unfinished WEM Invincible, unfinished because she and I just didn't seem to hit it off, and after messing up various things, especially trying to paint in all those little apertures along the sides, I gave up for the time being. I have bought a Revell version and will probably eventually use the hull and island from that, and the rest from the WEM kit. I have a large 'back collection' of unmade 1/700 plastic which I occasionally dip into if there is a pause in new WEM releases, and have recently been buying Heller kits when I see them (very sporadic in my experience), partly because they are difficult to get hold and offer some subjects as yet unavailable in good 1/700 kits at that price, and partly because I fear that at some stage I will be unable to cope with the increasingly fine detail on new kits. I'm sure I'm not the only SMMLer approaching middle age who had had to buy a second pair of glasses and then a magnifier to fit on those in the last couple of years! A couple of correspondents have mentioned the Heller 1/100 Victory; I would like to tackle that after I retire - hopefully about ten years away - as I think it is the sort of thing that needs continuous work, and in current circumstances (four nights a week in Oxford, weekends in Leeds and two evenings lost travelling) it would take forever. Ship modelling time is also limited by trying to build a model railway at home (five years so far and no trains running!) and, having been a lifelong wargamer, (including crawling over a church hall floor with 1/1200 fleets) I am still collecting and painting eighteenth century armies. What a pity one has to do a day job as well! John Clements -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume