Subject: SMML06/09/99VOL660 Date: Tue, 07 Sep 1999 00:01:48 +1000 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: IPMS/USA Nats 2: Eisenstadt/Nelson and Haida 3: Re: Fulton's steam battery Demologos 4: Re: Battle of the River Plate 5: "Battle of The River Plate" 6: Information 7: Fighting Steel 8: Re: IPMS/USA Nationals 9: HMAS Melbourne (FFG) 10: Y2K US Nationals 11: Sub, convention & current projects 12: Re: Fulton's steam battery Demologos 13: Re: Naval Movies -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: Re: URGENT REQUEST FOR DIVING BENDS INFO 2: Re: 1/400 TONE 3: FS: German Navy Reference Book -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS Hi gang, Right after tonight's issue goes out, I'll be doing a test run of the new distribution list. If you don't get the test post & still want to get SMML, please send in a subscribe notice. As I would like to switch to the new list in a couple of days. Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: IPMS/USA Nats >> I spoke to Penny Thomas about three weeks ago about this very subject. I tried my best to persuade her to not restrict admission for the first two days to IPMS members only but she is adamant about it. << Brad, As I understand it, it only includes IPMS members for the first two days to the vendors room. Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. http://www.okclive.com/flagship/ "yeah, I want Cheesy Poofs" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: Vimieraa@aol.com Subject: Eisenstadt/Nelson and Haida See --- never doubt GOD. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: dhjonespsm@juno.com Subject: Re: Fulton's steam battery Demologos Bradford Chaucer writes: >> Received the following from Clayton Feldman on the Model Shipways mailing list. Plans for the Fulton steam battery can be found in Donal Caney's "The Old Steam Navy", Volume I, from Naval Institute Press, Chuck. There is also a >photo of the model of her from the Smithsonian. << I had forgotten about Caney - always thinkof that book as Civil War info. Revision to my post from yesterday - forget about Laing and the "Twin Hull"book. The plans in Caney's book are actual plans, detailed and relatively complete. They are FAR superior to those I cited in the other books, and will actually answer many of the questions raised. Kenneth H. Goldman writes: >> Friday, I bought a copy of MAN-OF-WAR by Donald MacIntyre (yup, that Donald MacIntyre), and on page 78 are three hull drawings of Robert Fulton's Demologos: cross section, deck plan, profile. << These are line art versions of the same drawing as appeared in Laing and others. These drawings (the originals) are in the nature of pencil renderings - decorative but very questionable as to accuracy. The drawings in Caney's book give hull lines, cross sections, interior and exterior profiles - everything you would need. Daniel Jones Plastic Ship Modeler magazine -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: "David Warden" Subject: Re: Battle of the River Plate Dear Shane, I am a newcomer to the SMML group and write to inform people that I think the movie referred to within the Battle of the River Plate debate was called HMS Valiant. Excellent publication and keep up the good work. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: Norman Alfred Sells Subject: "Battle of The River Plate" Hi SMML'ers, As well as to confirm all that has been previously mentioned regarding this exellent film and the ships in it I wish to add the following. 1. It was a shame that the film director made so much emphasis on shots of the highly sophisticated "Christmas Tree" radar equipment on the "Graf Spee" (e.e. USS SALEM)that was obviously more modern than that carried by WWII vessels at that time. 2. It was good to see that they managed to get a few shots of the actual HMS CUMBERLAND. If you notice in the film she did not have any main armament turrets!, due to the fact that when the fim was made she was then a 'trials' ship for fall-out and pre-wetting tests ! (Shame again that the film makers couldn't rustle up a decent 'chippy' to turn out at least a 'dummy turret')......... All the best.. from a very sultry Kent where over our back garden in the last couple of hours I've enjoyed the sight (& sound) of a low fly past of Spitfire & Lancaster of BBMF and some locally owned Harvards following Folkestone Air Show. If ever there was "The Sound of Freedom" then that was it on this 60th anniversary of 'The Day War Broke Out' (For us in England & Commonwealth) NORMAN -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: "David Zimmerman" Subject: Information Dear SMML Readers and Modelers: I am after some information: 1, what colors were the R4D's painted? I understand they were OD Green over Light Gray, is this correct? 2, Does anyone make a decal of the Naval Air Transport Service emblem? 3. Who is currently manufacturing a 1/350 scale Battleship North Carolina? Thanks again for all of the help. David Z. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: Timothy Dike Subject: Fighting Steel Someone asked about the new 3D FX game Fighting Steel. Here's my .02 worth. This is the kind of game I've been waiting for, a 3D Ship simulation, that allows me to fight the battles in and around Guadalcanal or anywhere else in 1939-43. I've played most of the other games out there and this one is the closest thing to being there. Night battles are great, with star shells and searchlights piercing the darkness, as well as the blinding flash of a full broadside cutting loose on your opponent. You can control ships individually or as a Task Force. The camera view are great too, with my favorite being the shell cam that follows your shells to their target. The ships are modeled pretty well for a simulation, but I'm sure not up to the standard of picky SMML members. The only real drawbacks to this game are the absence of land, and the limited campaign screen. One of the biggest plusses is the excellent customer support, with the Divide by Zero/SSI team monitoring the newsgroups and responding to the problems as they come up. If you get the game you might want to check the websight for the latest patch as most of the bugs have been addressed and the game is now very stable. Some of the links for those interested are; http://fightingsteel.com/ http://www.dividebyzero.com/ http://welcome.to/markgame http://www.wargamer.com/fs/ I know there are more but you can find them in the links section of most of these sites. This is a great game for those of you with the computer to play it. I highly recommend it. mailto:Cadman@kc.net http://www.kc.net/~cadman/ "A still sea never wrought a skillful sailor" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: "John Snyder" Subject: Re: IPMS/USA Nationals I took the liberty of forwarding some of the negative posts regarding the upcoming Dallas nationals to John Noack, current IPMS/USA president. He offered the following reply, and invited me to post it to SMML: >> First of all, no final decision has been made in regards to closing the vendor area to non-members. The Dallas chapter has proposed this, with the intent (as I understand it) of recognizing that this is a National Convention for National Members first and a hobby shop for non-members second. While I understand, and to some degree am sympathetic to this position, I feel that an exclusionary approach to the convention rather than a welcoming one sends an unfortunate message. My personal opinion (since I will not be President as we get closer to Dallas in '00) is that it's the wrong thing to do. I stress, however, that NOTHING is cast in concrete yet. Those who claim inside knowledge of a fait accompli are fanning the flames at best and trolling at worst. Everyone - member or non-member - is free to do as they see fit. Personally, until the issue is resolved, my suggestion is to keep a cooler head and stay tuned before making a decision based on less than 100% of the data. Penny Thomas just had some major surgery done, and once she is back on her feet, we'll get a final resolution to the question. JN << -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: Chris.Evenden@agso.gov.au Subject: HMAS Melbourne (FFG) For readers in Australia and New Zealand, the new issue of Australian and New Zealand Defender has a photo story on HMAS Melbourne in the Gulf. Shot of one of the Seahawks in he hanger makes you wonder how any work is done on them - there isn't alot of space in there! Chris Evenden -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: "Craig Brown" Subject: Y2K US Nationals For what it is worth, the National Model Railroad Association (NMRA) at thier national convention has a National Train Show in conjunction with the convention, the show opens at noon on Friday and closes Sunday about 5PM (with of course closings for sleep each day. When they open at noon on Friday it is convention attendees only until 5pm that evening when it opens to everyone. Having worked both sides of the counters at these shows I can tell you that it does not affect sales or attendence to have the five hour period for convention attendees only. I am not sure that the longer time proposed for Dallas would have the same results, I would suggest the shorter attendees only time. Craig Brown -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: "hugh1lottie2" Subject: Sub, convention & current projects I am inquiring for another modeler, does Blue Water Navy still make a 1/350 Lafayette class submarine? I would like to see the SMML convention in the fall, always wanted to see New England in the fall. There have been suggestions that future conventions be held on museum ships which is great but what about us landlubbers. I have to travel a thousand miles before I come close to any water. Denver may not have anything bigger than a canoe but there is a dedicated group of SMMLes here that could provide you a good time as I am sure that many other locations equally as dry would be glad to provide if given the opportunity. Another possibility may be a cruise for a week, the price is about the same as travel expenses across the country for the same amount of time. In reality, I would like to see who the real sailors are. Current projects are finishing Loose Cannon²s APA Gilliam and AKA Artemis before wading in to WEM Warspite which should arrive soon. Add Hasagawa¹s Zuiho to the list. Hugh Letterly Beauty is only a light switch away. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: sinkanka@usit.net (Ann G. Sinkankas) Subject: Re: Fulton's steam battery Demologos To Jim King: In my book collection I have an offprint, "Fulton's "Steam Battery": Blockship and Catamaran," by Howard I. Chapelle, which is extracted from Paper 39, pages 137-176 of United States National Museum _Bulletin_ 240, Contributions from the Museum of History and Technology (Washington, D.C.: Smithsonian Institution, 1964). This is essentially a short monograph with an account of the original vessel, a reconstruction of its appearance, the plans made from the reconstruction, and two mediocre photographs of the model made from the plans, one starboard broadside, and the other from the stern looking forward (though given the design of this ship it may well be from the bow looking aft!). There are a number of old plans and illustration reproduced, most of them of no use to you. However, what appears to be most of the reconstruction plans are printed in reduced form on page 154. These include outboard profile, stations, buttocks and diagonals, sheer plan, inboard profile, bow and stern views, model lines redrawn to the outside of the planking, layout of the paddle from the side and (not as complete) from above, layout of deck structures, with general arrangements woven into all views, including some armament details. It does not include spar plans and rigging. This plan is probably 1:48 (1/4" = 1') in its original version, and the original probably does include the spar and rigging details. The whole publication is 20 leaves, printed both sides, in paper covers. I've seen the model itself, so the plans probably exist at the Smithsonian and are obtainable, though I can't tell you how. I'll bet one of the archive-nauts elsewhere on SMML can tell you, though. I'd venture that if you are persistent, you'll be able to obtain a good copy of these plans in their full scale. I would be willing to photocopy my book for you if you contact me off-list with the appropriate details as to where to send it. Regards, George M. Sinkankas -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: Les Pickstock Subject: Re: Naval Movies >> I don't know if I'm re-ploughing already tilled soil but, does anyone recall a movie from the 50's about the Battle of the River Plate,. Also, while on this thread, what was the name of the movie about the Italian human torpedo attack on the RN battleships in Alexandria harbour? << The film you are thinking of is "The Silent Enemy" starring Laurence Harvey as Lionel "Buster" Crabb. The film open with a short sequence of the attack on 2 British warship at Alex by Italian Chariots, but the action is mostly set in Gibralter where Crabb leads the Harbour Diving party. The film,in black and white, also starred Michel Craig, Sid James and Dawn Adams. Les Pickstock. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Caroline Carter" Subject: Re: URGENT REQUEST FOR DIVING BENDS INFO Well, what can I say except thanks to everyone of you (so many SMMLlie folks!) out there who was able to help point me in the right direction re. information and help on this distressing incident. I was loathe to give specifics or mention Dave, but am glad that Shane did. In fact, after putting together the evidence with a few of you, it seems that Dave may have suffered an air embolism as well as a spinal bend ... however, he received the right treatment regardless, and is now back at home. This was the deepest he'd ever been and 3 of them (from a group of 7) went down 115 feet to a wreck... Dave noticed his air getting low, but they were unable to find the shot-line, so did a timed ascent, apparently quite normally... maybe the dive computer might help..bear in mind that the other 2 guys had no symptoms whatsoever. 10 minutes after getting out the water, he developed a violent stitch-like pain in his right side (the bit he didn't tell the docs), and then tingling and paralysis in his lower limbs, principally down ONE side more than the other (didn't tell the docs it was more down the one side than the other either!), and severe double vision.. he told the dive instructcor he had a problem and immediately started 100% Oxygen, and continued this all the way to the decompression facility. He was symptom free before he arrived. He underwent decompression from 18m over 5 hours. It was decided that this had been a spinal bend. He is now suspected of having a "hole-in-the-heart", and has been referred for cardiological investigation to Dr Peter Wilmhurst. What amazed me is that Dave was told by a doc at the facility that he could dive after a couple of weeks if he took care! Needless to say, after showing him the messages from several of you guys, I persuaded him not to consider it until he's had his medical consultation. Needless to say, I have watched him like a hawk since he got back! Many thanks once again.. to all of you, for your prayers, your help, advice and concerns.. suddenly, I didn't feel so alone.. All My Best Caroline -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Joseph W. Reyna" Subject: Re: 1/400 TONE >> Around 1971, a friend had a 1/400 Japan Hobby TONE and I was only able to find MOGAMI (in the a/c carrying config). I don't know how old the kits were then, and I don't remember much about the quality. I remember considerably less surface detail than the Nichimo 1/500 kits, but that's about all. The only other Japan Hobby kits I have seen were JMSDF MINEGUMO, in 1/300 scale. I still have a couple of those, somewhere. I only know that we found the cruisers in small hobby shops in the Seattle area (both gone now) and don't know what distributor imported them. Neither of us have seen any more of those kits since that day. << Rick, et al SMML-ies and -ettes, This thread, to say the least, has caught my attention. Having become interested in the small but fascinating range of kits in 1/400 scale, I have hoped to locate the Japan Hobby TONE, or any of the much older Tamiya 1/400 Japanese cruiser model kits. Would anyone out there in SMML-land have such a kit that they would consider selling or trading? I have an extra Japan Hobby MOGAMI that I have been holding for just such a trade, but I would be more that willing to purchase! I'd appreciate any info. or leads. Cheers all! Joe Reyna Joseph W. Reyna, CPMS Certified Plastic Model Shipwright Kits for Sale at: http://members.home.net/jreyna/ForSale/KitSale.html mailto:jreyna@home.com "We are all shephards" - Jordan Black -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: GrafSpee34@aol.com Subject: FS: German Navy Reference Book Hi, Starting to thin out duplicate books from my reference library. Among others, a copy of Kroshel-Evers "Die Deutsche Flotte" (The German Fleets). A super handy reference on the ships of the German Navy from 1848 to 1945. Hundreds of ships documented in 437 b/w photos, with short history of each subject. Have a look at it on eBay at: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=157694381 And check out my other auctions for other naval reference and military uniform books! Thanks for looking. Dave Krakow -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume