Subject SMML09/09/99VOL663 Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 01:04:37 +1000 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: Domestic Opposition, etc. 2: Re: Good, Bad and The Ugly. 3: Re: Display Space answer 4: Re: Ugliest ship 5: Re: Pretty Designs 6: RN Bases 7: The good, the bad and the ugly 8: Re: The Good, The Bad & The Ugly 9: For serious anchors buffs 10: US IPMS Nationals 11: Heller SitRep No.2 12: H M S Cornwall 13: Bismarck hull halves 14: White Glue 15: German and British ID markings in Spanish Civil War 16: Re: Kits & Domestic opposition 17: Re: Good, Bad, and Ugly! 18: Re: Vittorio Veneto models? 19: Request for information and comments 20: Re: The Good, Bad & Ugly 21: Re: White metal & glue 22: Re: Ugliest Ships 23: Re: Ugliest ship from Steve Gustafson 24: HMS Berwick 25: Greenwich Trip 26: Re: British Naval Bases, Grom & Blyscawica and The Good, Bad & Ugly 27: HMS Bullen 28: Re: HMS Berwick 29: Re: Good, bad and Ugly 30: Bobtail Cruiser 31: Fighting Steel -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: Thank You all.. 2: APMA meeting 3: College Pk, MD, Archives II help! 4: IPMS Y2K Comments from Penny Thomas -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS Hi Gang, I'll be sending another test post after tonight's SMML. If you don't get it & wish to re-subscribe, just email me. Now, onto another matter. I've recieved a post from Ed Grune from Penny Thomas IPMS(USA) Region 6 Co-ordinatinator & IPMS(USA) 2000 Nats Chair, in reply to Charles Davenport IPMS(USA) 1st Vice President & IPMS(USA) President candiadate(unopposed at the moment AFAIK) about some convention coming next year in, I think Texas somewhere. I thank both Ed & Penny for taking the time to post it here. If anyone would like to reply to Penny's post, can I suggest you reply to John Noack IPMS(USA) President mailto:jnoack@aol.com , Charles Davenport (email address unknown) or Penny Thomas mailto:pthomas@csw.com OFFLIST. Regards, Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: William Swan Subject: Re: Domestic Opposition, etc. With regard to the number of kits and domestic opposition I suggest that you begin to look at really nice cabinets for display. You would be surprised at how much more likely a spouse or friend is to be amenable to lots of display pieces if they are in really nice cabinets. I have been buying cabinets in consignment shops and have come up with some gorgeous pieces that were priced the same as the most inexpensive trophy cabinets. Just add a few more glass shelves and instant display for tanks or ships. Hundreds of 1/700s can go in a large cabinet of this type. The spouse gets beautiful furniture and you get to display your stuff. (my latest acquisition in a Boca Raton FL consignment shop was a mirror backed, three sides with glass Italian Burl wood cabinet with center opening glass doors, all for less than a cheesy china cabinet at a discount store). Beautiful furniture = happy wife, display case =happy modeler! BTW I have over 250 armor and 150 ship kits built up and on display in this manner, OK, OK, I still have another 350 or so yet to build but there's still wall space!!!!! William Swan -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Herron, Chris H" Subject: Re: Good, Bad and The Ugly. Hi All, Whilest being very much a matter of personal taste, I thought I'd throw in my nominations Ugliest:- USS Longbeach Runner-up:- HMS Roberts & HMS Abercrombie - WW2 Monitors that are "intriguing" with those big 15" guns (and also my pet subject !) Best looking:- Prinz Eugen Atlanta class cruisers. (both of these just "look right" to me) Feel free to agree or disagree ! Chris -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: Display Space answer >> Finally, what do you do when you have limited display space and a seemingly unlimited supply of displays????? << Ask a local museum if they want to take them in. It will be even better if you can make suggestion as to a display subject (a/c carriers of WW2 etc.). Do a little research and present your idea well and the museum will give you a legal tax deduction (cost of kits and supplies only in the US). You can also see others enjoy your work. Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. http://www.okclive.com/flagship/ Hi Rusty, Great answer. Another option, is your local Serviceman's Club. Here in Australia, a lot of the clubs have small displays & I'm sure will glady accept models for display. Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: Ugliest ship I know it's a prototype test bed but hasn't anyone seen the Sea Shadow stealth ship? WOAH!! ONE UGLY VESSEL!! Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. http://www.okclive.com/flagship/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: "Katz, Gene S" Subject: Re: Pretty Designs Prettiest (no real order): 1. Alaska CBs 2. Atlanta CLs 3. French Algerie CA 4. Italian Vittorio Veneto BBs 5. IJN Tone, and a few other IJN CAs 6. French Super DDs of the Fantastique Class 7. Italian CLs such as Scipione Africano (maybe misspelled) 8. HMS Hood 9. Scharnhorst 10. Normandie and Rex Ugliest is easy: any modern cruise ship!!! Must be designed by Naval Architect dropouts trying to get revenge while "under the influence" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: "chenyangzhang" Subject: RN Bases Hi WRPRESS, Try adding the following:- Harwich - Base for small torpedo craft and submarines Malta - Base of the Mediterranean fleet Wei-Hai-Wei - Base for the China Station There were others which became bases during the Great War (Sheerness) and others which were classed as repair bases or coaling stations. Chris Langtree -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: Mark McKellar Subject: The good, the bad and the ugly >> my nomination for the best looking ship is the NS Savannah. The graceful, balanced design and futuristic shape makes it no.1 in my book, but I do agree with your description of the the Yamato. It has definite aesthetic features that sets if apart from other battleships. << I guess I'd have to concur with Jen's nomonations for the best....but frankly, I'm lost with much of this dicsussion. I just don;t have the depth of knowlege to be able to picture a Norwegian coastal defense ship nor do I have to time to try to find a pic of one. Now, off topic - Shane, can we do a thread on the worst way to celebrate a birthday???? >> I once celebrated my birthday by watching five Star Trek movies in one go) << Mark -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: Lisa and Bill Wiseman Subject: Re: The Good, The Bad & The Ugly Since we're limited to WWII and before, Prettiest has to go the to the Iowa class Battlewagons. The sweeping bow, the lagre superstructure, and those nine 16 inch tubes. Must have given the "freedom fighters" in the Lebanese Highlands a start when New Jersey showed up off the coast. Ugliest has to go to the cagemasted BB's between the wars. Clunky lines, a lot of deck clutter and those masts always looked like a mistake. New stuff: Prettiest belongs to the Aegis Class Cruisers. Ugliest to the Detroit Class Oilers. My two cents, Doc Wiseman. (whats this wet stuff falling from the sky???) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: "Kenneth H. Goldman" Subject: For serious anchors buffs For those of you who can't get enough information on anchors, the latest "Book Watch" flyer from Naval Institute Press lists: ANCHORS: THE ILLUSTRATED HISTORY by Betty Nelson Curryer. It is 160 pages with 100 photographs and illustrations, in paperback. The listed price through 31 December 1999 is $20.36 US, $23.95 US after that date. I haven't personally seen the book, so I can't comment on it. As for what's currently on the bench: 1:35 Verlinden Biber - So far I have hollowed it out from above and scratch built the interior that will be visible through the open hatch and view ports. 1:232 Revell USS Olympia with Loren Perry's goodies - This one is awaiting commencement until I complete the wood sculpture nude in African zebrawood I am in the midst of finishing. 1:16 Model Airways Albatros D.Va - So far I have 30 hours into the engine alone. 1:87 Airfix HMS Bounty - So far I have scratch built as much of the interior as is visible through the deck hatches and gratings, which I have needle-filed open, and have made numerous hull corrections and detailings. When I got to the total absence of pinrails in the kit, construction stopped while I weigh investing a small fortune in aftermarket parts, or an equvalent amount of time in further scratch building, against buying a good plank-on-bulkhead kit. Ken Goldman THE WALRUS AND THE CARPENTER http://www.wman.com/~khgold/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: "Jens H. Brandal" Subject: US IPMS Nationals Hi gang, I seem to have an opinion on every countrys IPMS Convention, so bear with me on this one too:) I have followed this stream of complaints over the exclusion of non-IPMS Members for the first day and a half to the vendor's tables, and I must admit the critisism reminds me of the fairy tale about the hen and the wheat. As fairy tales travel across boundaries without passports, I am sure there are national variations on the theme, but the basic story is about a hen that finds a grain of wheat. She needs help to take it to the mill, carry the flour and bake a loaf. She asks the other animals for help and she gets none. When finished, she asks if any of them would like to eat it they all offer their "assistance". First; the IPMS USA through the members' subscriptions and voluntary work makes the convention happen. If there was no IPMS USA, or noone would be bothered to put in the effort, there would be no convention at all. Would it be wrong to reward the people that make it happen with first access to the goodies? This seems to be your no. 1 worry in spite of the wonderful ideas of showing people what IPMS is all about. People will still see what IPMS is all about when looking at hundreds of wonderful models, chatting to friendly and helpful people and spending money at the vendors. Secondly: In all walks of life, there are benefits only available to members; access to golfing clubs, credit card companies, frequent flyer schemes etc. Membership carry priveleges, but also responsibilities. Why should people not prepared to accept the responsibilities harvest the priveleges? The same people complaining about denied access are probably the same who ask IPMS members "what's in it for me" and then decide against joining because they can see no benefits in it other than getting the IPMS magazine - which they probably borrow and read anyway. Correct me if I'm wrong here, but the IPMS UK kit swap has been open to IPMS members only. Similarly, some vendors in the UK give 10% or so IPMS discount - you have to show a valid membership card though. ED Models used to do it (I don't know if they still do, because I didn't go last year), but Hannants do not (as far as I know). Thirdly: Vendors; does it matter who purchases your merchandise? The "goodies" are likely to go first, but I am sure you will still have a a lot of products available that the general public had no idea existed. The seasoned (non-IPMS) modellers who want to check out the latest resin or photoetch may still find that it has been sold out should the convention be open to all. If the US IPMS Nationals next year are open to IPMS members only, the organising committee will have my understanding for their decision. Personally, I would never refuse non-IPMS members assistance because I do believe in doing onto others etc. I once joined IPMS Norway thinking that I had to be a member in order to enter the IPMS Norway Nationals. I have never regretted my membership because I have made many friends that I have met at Conventions and local modelling clubs, and IPMS made them happen. This is my prime reason for still remaining a member (in addition to being the treasurer of course), but such a long term benefit may not be immediately apparent to most people, and pretty hard to explain to potential members. Jens (ducking for cover) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: KDur597268@aol.com Subject: Heller SitRep No.2 Hi all - Just thought I'd report that Heller came through today - I picked up my Bismarck hull halves at the P.O. this morning. I got the note on Saturday, actually, so almost exactly one month from the date I sent in the "Flash Service" note via snailmail - August 1. Of course I'm not sure whether it was that or the e-mail on the 15th that did it, so their service is either very good or spectacular! Ken D -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: WRPRESSINC@aol.com Subject: H M S Cornwall In 1965, one Mr De Vries wrote a letter from which I quote the relevant parts:- "I saw your letter and although I am now 81 years of age, I still try and keep an interest in the ships particularly those we used to see here during the war. I was a forman at Durban and I remember the Cornwall coming in for repairs after she sank the German raider. She had been knocked about a bit because everyone said that she got too close to the German. What I do remember is that she was painted in odd way". Mr De Vries then goes on to describe in the greatest of detail the camouflage that the Cornwall carried. He concluded his description as follows "I was given to understand that this was because these ships were so hard to disguise and they hoped that by painting the ship like this, the impression might be at a distance that she was a single funnelled merchantman". The letter contains no information as to how or if the decks were painted. It is not known as to how long this camouflage was worn, but by October 1941 she was observed to be overall DARK grey. From this time on she was seen on an ocassional basis, with a last viewing made by a visiting officer in December 1941 at Capetown, at which time she was overall DARK grey, but the grey had worn down to something approaching MEDIUM grey, along with a badly weathered overall appearance. With respect to the colour at the time of loss in April 1942, Captain Agar stated in a conversation, that Cornwall was painted overall in a shade of grey which was; "...somewhere between dark grey and light grey...". The artwork has been done, a photo would be nice. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: KDur597268@aol.com Subject: Bismarck hull halves Well folks I guess I was a little too joyous in my Heller report. Opened the box and the replacement hull halves are warped worse than the first set. Oh well. I'm a modeler, aren't I? I actually already clamped and glued the first hull together just to see if i could, and it's fine, so no loss. Ken -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: jakloek@kodak.com Subject: White Glue In my experience, white glue works quite nicely to attach PE parts to resin. It shrinks upon drying, so a drop applied wet, becomes a much smaller spot when dry. It also dries with much less gloss or sheen than CA glue. The big advantage CA glue has is that it dries very quickly, white glue takes several minutes. Another advantage for white glue is that it is water soluble, so if you accidentally apply too much, you can clean it off with a damp Q-Tip and start over. It also works for white metal parts. James Kloek -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: "F J Hueso" Subject: German and British ID markings in Spanish Civil War Hello all! Such markings were used as ID in ships performing duties in the "non-intervention" neutral patrol force after 1937. Colours -from aft to front of the turrets- were blue-white-red for British ships and black-white-red for German ones. Notwithstanding, some ships suffered attacks,as was the case of the Deutschland in 1937, or the British Boreas and Kempenfelt when assisted the survivors of the cruiser Baleares, in 1938. If you wiah to know about Naval aspects of the Spanish Civil War, try: http://web.forodigital.es/uphm/mgl/buques/spanishcivwar.htm (Maybe, thanks to it, someday I could justify to buy Delphis Models' Barletta -she served under our flag some time!) Regards from Madrid where it seems to heat up) Javier Hueso -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: Dave Judy Subject: Re: Kits & Domestic opposition Fellow Modelers..AKA..kit collectors! I can sympathize with Gene's perdicament!! I have convinced my wife that all these kits that, as she says.." I will never build" are being aquired for my retirement, as I may not be able to afford to buy these kits at that time! Also a slight mention of keeping out from underneath her feet might have firmed up this flimsy attempt at logic...maybe Mr. Spock may have had some relative input on this!! Now I will hurry up and send this before she comes down here and sees this! Dave Judy -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: Tirpitz70@webtv.net (Rich Hahn) Subject: Re: Good, Bad, and Ugly! Hello All, Here's my nominations for the good: 1. Italian battleships Vittorio Veneto and her 2 sisters, very nice indeed! 2. German Hipper-class heavy cruisers after the Atlantic-bow and funnel cap mods( especially Blucher!) 3. US North Carolina class BBs, very nice design! 4. Bismarck 5. I must disagree with Yohan here, I really like the Graf Zeppelin design, very cool! And now the ugly: 1. USS Long Beach, whose bridge is reminiscent of the Borg spaceship in Star Trek. 2. German Hipper-class CAs before the above listed mods. 3. I agree, modern cruise ships are the UGLIEST ships today! Best Wishes, Rich Hahn Bensalem, PA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: Tirpitz70@webtv.net (Rich Hahn) Subject: Re: Vittorio Veneto models? Hello Again, I am looking for models of Vittorio Veneto and her sisters. I know they are made in resin, but am not sure of the manufacturer. Also, if anyone has built them, any opinions on kit quality would be cool too. Thanks very much! Best Wishes, Rich Hahn Bensalem, PA Hi Rich, Her's what I found on the shiplist: R.N Vitterio Veneto Regia Marina 1/700 resin Plastic Ship Modeller 98/1 1998 pp 10 Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: "johnnie R. horney" Subject: Request for information and comments Hello SMML I am presently working with USNL Sea Scouts and we have decided to build several models of missile cruisers from the 60's. The three we have decided apon are: 1. USS Chicago 2. DE Zeven Province (Netherlands) 3. Giuseppe Garibaldi (Italian) Here is where we run into a problem we are having a hard time finding out any information about the Italian Cruiser. Can anyone out there in SMML land help us out. Any information about any of the ships listed would be greatly appreciated. I have been a subscriber for over a year now and and an IPMS member for over 12 years. I have read the SMML every time it has been posted, Up until now I have had little or no comments its just been great information for us fellow ship modelers. But the topic about the IPMS national convention and restricting who come and goes could be the start of major problems. As stated we need to encourage the youth to become actively involved in this hobby weather it be building ship, planes, cars or si-fi. The IPMS or for that matter any modeling activity should be actively trying to recruit these people. I also agree with the new president of the IPMS, the relationship between them and the industry is really improving and it's through the national conventions and local events that this relationship is solidified. I'm sorry that we don't have any name brand movie stars to bring to our conventions to intice the masses to come or is purely an organization that focuses on the merit of its members and their abilities. The format is great as it allows everyone form the novice to the advanced a chance to showcase their work My point is two fold first we should open our doors to everyone and we as a group of fun loving modelers need to stop bickering and get on with what we love and that building models. Remember UNITED WE STAND DIVIDED WE FALL. Leave the running of the organization and clubs to the elected few and if you don't like the way they are doing it run against them. Once again SMML keep up the good work and thanks for the hours of enjoyment, -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: NAVYDAZE@aol.com Subject: Re: The Good, Bad & Ugly I know we want to stay within W.W.II or before - BUT I think there is one class of ships that can actually be nominated for all three and that is the infamous Guided Missile Cruisers: CHICAGO, ALBANY, COLUMBUS. You really got to hate them or love them or like me I think they are the Ugliest, most beautiful, bad and good looking ship ever constructed (or reconstructed I should say). I miss the old CHICAGO when she used to tie up ahead of us in San Diego (USS KITTY HAWK). Mike Donegan - Naval & Aviation Artist http://members.aol.com/NAVYDAZE/INDEX.HTML -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 21) From: gjstein@mindspring.com Subject: Re: White metal & glue Rather than Elmer's white glue (which dries cloudy and "stiff"), try "Sobo" white glue. It dries crystal clear and remains slightly flexible. Quite commonly used by plastic aircraft modelers for attaching canopies, biplane rigging, etc. Any art supply, hardware or school supply shop should have it. Also quite useful for "touch-up" where, say, your matte-medium sea waves pull away from the ship's hull. Only problem is that as it remains slightly flexible, it cannot be carved or sanded. It can be painted. George Stein -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 22) From: "Mike Leonard" Subject: Re: Ugliest Ships While transiting the Suez Canal in '84 in company with USS Stark (Perry-class FFG), the Egyptian pilot took onboard took one look at her and said "Warship? Is not warship! Look like fishing boat." Mike L Alexandria, VA USA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 23) From: b29@ix.netcom.com Subject: Re: Ugliest ship from Steve Gustafson Gee, Steve, I'm not sure what you expect ME to do about it, but frankly MEDUSA just happens to be a favorite of mine! I'll admit that she's not a beauty, but she's always appealed to me. Beauty as they say, is in the eye of the beholder. Actually, I've tried to get Neptun interested in doing a model, since I have a full set of plans for her (I really do, Steve), but they told me that they'd be glad to only if someone made a master for them! Well, that's one heck of a job. Actually, I'm in the process of getting ready to produce NITRO (AE-1), KANAWHA (AO-1) and MELVILLE (AD-2) for commercial sale in 1:1250 scale (under my SARATOGA MODEL SHIPYARD label), so maybe, one day I'll try to do MEDUSA. Hopefully the above 3 will be available over the next year. The masters have been completed. Paul Jacobs Editor 1250 SCALE -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 24) From: "Pletscher-Lenz-Schneider" Subject: HMS Berwick In the May 1985 edition of Larry Gertner's NEWSletter - (does anybody remeber?) - there was a drawing supplied by Steve Walpole - (Steve where are you?) - entiteled "H.M.S. berwick as in '42". It showed a camouflage paint of 507 C on the hull before and abaft the 8' turrets with bow and stern set-up "Mountbatten PINK?". The rest of the ship was mainly 507 A with some bands of 507 C. Can anybody confirm this? I can't believe that Steve Walpole was only fooling. Falk Pletscher -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 25) From: Colin Ritchie Subject: Greenwich Trip Hi there As part of this years annual pilgrimage to London, the chief planner, (Jill, my wife), has agreed to the National Maritime Museum as this years museum of choice, (last year was Duxford!). Since this will be my first time there, what should I make for first , p(my main interest being RN in WWII) and I know there is a model shop close by , but exactly where? Any help greatly appreciated, since my time there will be limited my her attention span, (long but not infinite) Oh as for on the work bench Lots of USAF Post WWII 48th scale stuff on the bench including an RF-101, F-104, WEM 350th Sheffield to complete, 95% done, and just needs a final push, Tamiya Enterprise in planning, contemplation, (most trying to work out where to put the completed beast) Colin Ritchie Aberdeen Scotland -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 26) From: Sanartjam@aol.com Subject: Re: British Naval Bases, Grom & Blyscawica and The Good, Bad & Ugly Hi SMML, For a listing of British naval bases in the period up to 1913, I suggest checking the British listing in the 1914 and 1905-06 volumes of Jane's Fighting Ships. I have the Arco reprint of the former, and it shows maps of the bases of the time; I assume the latter does the same. Arco also reprinted the 1905-06 volume so it should be around. On the Grom and Blyscawica, I think yesterday's post was correct in suggesting that Wz. 40 for the Grom indicates her rig in 1940 and that Wz. 44 for the Blyscawica indicated her rig in 1944. Mirage also makes a 1938 Grom and a post-war Blyscawica. I'm sure Damien can set us straight, though! As the for best looking and ugliest ships, the responses so far definitely prove that beauty is in the eye of the beholder! I've never been that wild about the Yamato's looks, though I'm coming around. I really like the looks of the Queen Elizabeths as built with two funnels, despise them when the funnels were trunked in the 20's (Barham and Malaya never lost that), but really like the Valiant and Queen Elizabeth when rebuilt again. Art Nicholson -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 27) From: "Peter Hall" Subject: HMS Bullen Hi Folks, Does anybody out there know anything about the history of HMS Bullen. ie What type of ship was she ? When was she built and a bit of history up to and including her sinking at the begining of WW2. Would much appreciate your help. All the best Peter Hall Hi Peter, The only HMS Bullen I could find is the Bentinck Class Frigate built by the yanks & commissined in 43-44. She sunk in 1944. I assume this is not the one you want? Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 28) From: "Russell M Smith" Subject: Re: HMS Berwick H. T. Lentons small sized book Navies of the Second World War British Cruisers has "an early war" picture of the Berwick in camouflage. It's a good clear picture of the deck and starboard side. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 29) From: Pieter Cornelissen Subject: Re: Good, bad and Ugly My guess for nicest and ugliest warships before 1945 Nice 1. Petropavlovsk class-1914 (classic dreadnought simplicity) 2. HMS Royal Sovereign-1891 (-rightfully- the most copied design of the period) 3. HMS Frobisher -1920 (being the reason of the Washington limit, the only good looking Washington cruiser) Ugly 1. HMS Victoria -1882 (The sinking shoebox) 2. HMS Argus - 1918 ('grey dismasted hulk, on fire aft, drifting towards the straits at 15 knots') 3. Amiral Baudin - 1886 (to be replaced by any late 19th centuruy french battleship) Pieter Cornelissen Delft, The Netherlands -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 30) From: Tom Eisenhour Subject: Bobtail Cruiser Greetings gang, Mike Connelley mentions the Rodney as runner-up for ugliest warship of all time. The Rodney, with her unusual gun layout, reminded me of the old Lindberg "Bobtail Cruiser" kit. Can anyone shed some light on what that kit was supposed to represent? Was that an actual configuration? Thanks, Tom Eisenhour Austin, Texas -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 31) From: "Dilys Wong" Subject: Fighting Steel Dear Smmlies: Do anyone have the SSl game "Fighting Steel." I have just brought one and still don't have time to put onto my computer. From the first glance at its front package and the demo, it seems that they don't have French, Italian and Russian navies, not to mention other minor navies in the Lowland (Netherlands, Finland, Norway, Sweden) and "ABC" navies in South America (Argentina, Brazil, and Chile). Is it true? Do they plan to have the same simulation game for the WWI battlefields? Imagine the German Vs British in the High seas, with the ABC navies and the Spanish off the Altantic; German Vs Russian Vs Lowland navies in the Baltic; French Vs Italian Vs Austro-Hungarian Vs Greek in the Mediterranean, and also with Russian and Turkish in the Black Sea; Japan and US in the Pacific, and also with Netherlands, French, British and even German off the Indian Ocean, and with Royal Australian/New Zealand in the South Pacific, all with their completed "blue-sky" designed dreadnoughts! That would be very great!!! Cheers! LoiLoi -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Caroline Carter" Subject: Thank You all.. Once again, to the HUGE number of SMLLies and their friends and associates who contacted us (and still are!) re Dave's diving accident, many, many thanks. You certainly find out who your friends are! After my optimistic post on Monday, Dave suffered a relapse, and his condition deteriorated. As soon as the problem became manifest, I had to drive him post-haste back down to Plymouth (3.5 hours non-stop), mobile phone in hand and emergency number in hand in case I had to call up the air ambulance... arriving at Plymouth, where he underwent extended decompression. We were told, plainly and simply, that Dave came close to losing his life.. he is never to dive again, and now I have him back, am NOT letting him out on wild and foolish adventures EVER again! NOW he has to sit down and build some of those 1/2 finished ship models!! You never know, he might actually get a Nationals entry in this time! All My Best Caroline Carter WEM (and am now back to ploughing thru a mouontain of orders... the winners of the WEM quiz will be sorted out shortly, and yes, I THINK we have a SMMLlie as a winner .. surprise, surprise..) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: Shane Subject: APMA meeting Yup, it's that time again. This Saturday is the monthly APMA meeting & it's the yearly Auction ;-)))). Everyone who's in Sydney on the day is welcome to attend & spend up big. If you want any more details, either email me at: mailto:sljenkins@tac.com.au or check out the APMA website. Regards, Shane APMA VP http://www.tac.com.au/~sljenkins/apma.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: Jay Schantzen Subject: College Pk, MD, Archives II help! Dear List members, Is anyone going to Archives II in College Park, MD in the near future? I need one plan there photocopied to complete the hull of the WWI destroyer I'm working on. (I have the plan number.) I would be willing to pay all necessary costs. Please contact me off-list if you can help. Thanks in advance! Jay Schantzen jschantzen@usinternet.com Hastings, MN (too far from Maryland) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: Ed Grune Subject: IPMS Y2K Comments from Penny Thomas Hello SMMLies, Penny Thomas, the Dallas convention chairman, has asked me to post this on SMML. It is her response to IPMS-USA presidential candidate Chuck Danvenport's posting on the List a few days ago. Penny has also posted this on r.m.s. Ed Mansfield, TX ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ My reply to Mr. Davenport goes into greater detail on this subject. But I continue to try to abide by the request of our President, John Noack, to not discuss IPMS business in a public forum. Still, I feel I should be allowed to reply to this posting. To paraphrase the personal message sent to Mr. Davenport earlier: I have been asked to refrain from making this a public discussion by the powers that be. Yet I find myself time and again reading posts from IPMS officials. When this happens, I have made a single posting without getting pulled into further discussion on it. Because I have been asked not to make this a public discussion, I have tried to comply by ask my convention committee to refrain from speculation or reaction to the often rude comments and posting on this subject. I have gone so far as to ask people not involved with the convention to please help me curtail some of this fruitless bantering on a subject still under discussion. I have even ignored the personal comments made about me by some of you, even when those comments made me wonder if your mother slapped your daddy when you were born. I have received a personal message from Mr. Davenport asking me to understand that maybe the way he made this statement was inappropriate, and maybe he should have talked to me before making such a public statement. Because the truth is, no decision has been made. I have received many messages about this subject. Overwhelmingly they support NCT. And it's not just email. People have been seeking me out personally to tell me they understand and support this policy. Obviously there are other folks bending the ear of the IPMS officials. The truth of the matter is, not every IPMS member or scale hobbyist is online. Therefore, to say that any majority has spoken here it simply not true. There must be an understanding in the difference between "public" and hobbyists who are not members of IPMS. If you know enough about IPMS that you plan your vacation around the National Convention, I don't believe you can call yourself part of the public. If you are willing to spend your vacation time to be here on Wednesday or Thursday, then you are just as avid a modeler as any IPMS member. It is not too much to ask for your support with a membership in the Society that makes this National Convention possible. It is very simple. We can have a national convention for our membership, and invite the public in for a look at our hobby. Or we can drop the charade and just call it a National Swap Meet. Charge 'em all $10 bucks a head to come in the door, and watch the role IPMS plays in the world of scale modeling fade into nothing. To borrow one of Chuck's words, I'll be "damned" if I will sit by and continue to watch IPMS decline because we give her away so cheaply. Something has value when it is given value. As long as we give IPMS away, there will be no incentive to join. We have had an open policy at our nationals for the last few years. Has our membership grown because of this policy? No. In the end, you can be part of the problem or part of the solution. It would appear that IPMS must play an important role in the lives of many of you. If this is not true, then there has been alot of gnashing of teeth and beating of chests over nothing. If it is true, then give IPMS your support, and make it a fun part of your hobby. Penny Thomas Y2K Chair -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume