Subject: SMML10/09/99VOL664 Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 00:14:41 +1000 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: Ugliest Ship 2: Beauty/Ugly and a Q 3: Re: Fighting Steel 4: BWN USS Massachusetts 5: can you help: FF-1044 Brumby 6: Re: The good, the bad and the ugly 7: What I'm working on etc... 8: HMS Cornwall 9: Re: Bobtail Cruiser 10: HMS Bullen 11: Mauretania 12: Ugliest/best looking ship nomination 13: Books, etc 14: Visiting Greenwich 15: HMS Berwick 16: Re: Current Projects and Good, Bad and Ugly 17: Re: "Bobtail Cruiser" 18: More display space answers 19: Re: New current project 20: Glencoe S.S. United States et al 21: Re: Bobtail Crusier 22: BOBTAIL CRUISER 23: USS Nashville & USS Texas 24: Re: Bobtail Cruiser question from Tom Eisenhour Subject: Re: Fighting Steel Fighting Steel currently includes the four major navies (England, US, Japan, Germany) and each is pretty well represented in types of ships. The period also only covers from 1939 to 1942, so don't expect to find an Iowa class BB here. As for expansions to the game- on the side of the box, it says '3D Naval Combat Series'. It seems as if this could be the first of a series of games like this? I could see a WWI expansion, one for the second half of WWII, as well as one for minor navies as they would all use the same game engine. Also, visit the web site www.fightingsteel.com and download the latest patch for the game. There are a small number of minor issues with the game right out of the box (read- very very minor issues) that they have addressed. Future expansions, like new ship classes or scenarios, might appear there also, so check the site every once in a while. I would install the game as soon as possible and dive in. It is very addictive and nothing makes your day better than crossing the enemy's T during a night engagment at ranges less than 2000 yards (except for the lost destroyer due to a collision with the lead enemy ship...) Enjoy! Yohan Fernando -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: Sheridan John Contr 66 ABW/SCX Subject: BWN USS Massachusetts Yes folks, it is finished! (What ? Somone actually *finished* a kit ?!?!?) After many painstaking hours of assembly, two major accidents, my work getting in the way of my personal life(tm), my BWN 1/350th Scale model of the USS Massachusetts (BB59) is finally done! The model took me about 200 hours to complete and it was well spent. The kit itself was a great kit to build and I even backdated the kit to BB59's 1944 fit (The model depicts BB59 in her late 1945 configuration as built). For those who are curious, I have photographed her and they should appear on the WARSHIP site as soon as Rob Mackie gets around to it. (Rob ? are back from vacation yet ?) Now that the slipway is clear and my 1/350th yardbirds have cleaned the workbench, I can start on my next project: The Classic Warships 1/350th Scale Alaska Kit converted to the USS Guam (CB-2) Should be a great project considering that the Alaskas *are* my favorite ships. John Sheridan Visit my USN Ship Camo site at: http://home.earthlink.net/~jrsheridan/ I am not a Member of the Lumber Cartel (tinlc) and I am not Unit #631 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: FREDDIE D HEPTING Subject: can you help: FF-1044 Brumby THIS SHIP WAS SOLD (Maritime Admin) 9-9-1994 and broken up. IS THERE ANY WAY I COULD GET SOME PLANS SO I COULD BUILD A MODEL OF HER(HULL,SUPER STRUCTOR,MAIN DECK UP). ANY THING WOULD HELP. FREDDIE D HEPTING mailto:fhepting@northland.lib.mi.us Hi all, Fred is not not a subscriber, so could you cc any answer to him as well. Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: John Philip Downing Subject: Re: The good, the bad and the ugly Good: HMS Lion (WWI BC) USS Lexington et al. as Battlecrusiers HMS Hood US battleships with clipper bow and cage mast IJN Nagato SS United States Bad: Aircraft Carriers. Modern Cruise Ships. "Hiraga" design BB IJN~1930 Ugly: (but I love em) IJN Fuso Gangut with crooked funnel French tumblehome battleships HMS Rodney/Nelson John, Arlington VA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: Christopher Crofoot Subject: What I'm working on etc... SMML, I'm working on a scratchbuilt 1/600 USS Wisconsin BB-9. I'm attempting to scratchbuild cage masts for her circa 1909. And I've got a Tamiya 1/350 Fletcher that I keep looking at in the closet....along with an airfix SS France, airfix HMS Ark Royal III, and a Dragon HMS Ark Royal IV. Obviously I need to do more work than looking! But I only "work" on one at a time...so don't feel bad you single bench builders out there! Chris Crofoot -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: "chenyangzhang" Subject: HMS Cornwall Hi WRPRESS A photo is essential as the letter from De Vries is very dubious I'm afraid. The sections you quote suggest that when the ship arrived in South Africa after the Pinguin incident it was camouflaged. This is extremely unlikely. Firstly Cornwall was in AP507C in late April (photographic proof exists) just before she was involved in the search for the raider. A painting does exist of Cornwall's crew rescuing Pinguin survivors and once again she is in AP507C which seems logical. What is also likely is that if she was painted in camouflage it was after 26 May when she returned to South Africa for full repairs. She might have been in camouflage escorting the liners (her assignment after the Pinguin incident). Photographic evidence also shows her in AP507C in 1942 (not light to medium grey) and I think that Captain Agar's recollections are mistaken. I've made this point before but the most important evidence is photographic. Finding a photo is essential (otherwise research is incomplete) This is followed by official written specifications and a distant third recollections of people who served or saw the ships. Memories play tricks (especially with the passage of time and more so than people think) and should not be relied on without collaboration. Chris Langtree -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: "Katz, Gene S" Subject: Re: Bobtail Cruiser I may be wrong (nothing new there), but I think the Bobtail Cruiser was IFS-1 (inshore fire support), USS Carronade? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: "Alan Roots" Subject: HMS Bullen Hi All In reply to Peter Hall's request for information relevant to HMS Bullen. As part of the lend lease program the Americans supplied the RN with 32 Evart diesel electric class and 46 of their Buckley turbo electric class ships, all new and built between 1942 and 1943. The British crews were shipped out to the builders for trails and to sail them back to Blighty, These ships were all named after past naval officers and classified as Captain class frigates. The Evarts had maximum speed of 20 knots while the Buckleys that of about 24 knots. HMS Bullen belonged to the latter class (Buckleys). I can to her find no reference to her history apart from the fact she sunk in 1944 (Shane was right) I have a small drawing in E.H H Archibalds book The Fighting Ship in the Royal Navy. with a list of all ships of this class together with some sparse armament details. If Peter would like contact me off list I will scan this and e-mail it. It is scant but may be of some use. Regards Alan R PS: must do something about my e-mail address (er! shorter perhaps) ROTFLMSAO - Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: "Jürgen F. Mayer" Subject: Mauretania Hi Shane, Thanks for your quick help. >> One book that may be of help is Robert Ballard's book: "Exploring the Lusitania". Apart from being a good read, it has the benefit of giving you ideas for conversions, etc ;-)). It also has some nice shots of both ships. << That's a good idea. I have Ballard's Titanic book, but not the one for the Lusitania yet. There's even a German edition available. >> Also try the following articles, courtesy of my shiplist(at the APMA site): RMS Lusitania Entex 1/350 Scale Models International Oct 1979 pp 652 Pt 1 Scale Models international Nov 1979 pp 724 Pt 2 Scale Models International Dec 1979 pp 802 Pt 3 Scale Models International Jan 1980 pp 19 Pt 4 RMS Lusitania Revell 1/350 ex Entex Model Ship builder ?? ?? Pt 1 Model Ship Builder March 1991 pp 45 Pt 2 RMS Mauretania Plastic Ship Modeller 97/4 1997 pp 21 article << Yes, I already explored that page. Nevertheless, thanks a lot for making this work for me. I really appreciate that. However, it will be hard to find those articles. Being a scientist, I know to work with libraries. But when I try to get ship or railway model literature, I get the response from the remote lending service: "No hobby literature available. Public libraries for non-scientists do not have English written hobby literature in general. I'm living 600 km from the coast, so ships are not a common subject here, too. I have access to the online catalogs of Southwest German libraries but not the ones in Hamburg or Bremen. But I doubt they have those magazines. I'll try to find out next week. At least the last article you mentioned would be a must. I ordered a book about the Mauretania in UK half a year ago, but unfortunately it only offers two or three pictures, none that really helps. Most of my liner books have one picture of the ship, but - of course - no coloured one except one painting, I believe. I already started to build the kit just to see the proportions. It's really a nice one, maybe the best of all the liner kits in 1/600. That's my first contact to Australia ouside my other hobby - the Bee Gees' music. From that I've got some good (internet) friends over there. Welcome aboard, Shane. Jurgen Hi Jurgen, You're welcome. Can anyone can help Jurgen out with the articles in question?? Regards, Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: d gregory Subject: Ugliest/best looking ship nomination How about French Pre-Dreadnought battleships? They look like flat irons with guns. The designer had to be a caricature artist! Since I don't pay much attention to ships bigger than destroyers, my nominees for best looking in the small fry category would be: 1) Elco 77' PT 2) Vosper 70' MTB in three tone camouflage 3) Italian Gabbiano corvette -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: PASO34@webtv.net (Andy Greer) Subject: Books, etc I am curious if anyone outhere can tell me whether there are any good books on the US cruiser classes of WWII(ie Baltimore, Cleveland, Atlanta, etc) as well as the pre-war "heavies"(San Francisco, Wichita, etc). I do most of my ordering through Barnes & Noble online now so they should have it. A magazine I get also lists leatherbound "coffee table" editions of commemorative ship histories are available(about $50.00 apiece) from CIB Media, has anyone had any business with this company. And for my two cents worth, the prettiest ships would have to be the: Iowa BBs(any period), the rebuilt US BBs, the Alaska class CBs, the WWII French Battleships Strausbourg, Jean Bart, Richelieu, etc and the current Wasp class ships (what a small "carrier" ought to look like). As for the ugliest, has anyone heard of the MOSKVA of Soviet Navy times, the CIAs Glomar Explorer, and basically any of the conversions of LCIs, LCLs etc that were converted for other uses postwar by the USN(ie the Pueblo) and sent out to do some other ships job. Thanks, Andy "I'll never reach my destination if I never try so I will sail my vessel until the river runs dry" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: Norman Alfred Sells Subject: Visiting Greenwich Hi SMML'ers, To all of you who may visit Greenwich (UK) and The National Maritime Museum the follwing websites are worth a study first.... 1. Greenwich itself has it's own site with guides to travel, shops places of interest etc etc- find this on.. http://www.gmt2000.co.uk/ (and hit ENTER) 2. The model shop that is well worth a visit has a website with all details you need on...... http://www.gmt2000.co.uk/maritime/models/ 3. Of course the Maritime Museum also has it's own website on.......... http://www.gmt2000.co.uk/meridian/index1.htm I hope that this is of some help. If you get the time, and you will need a whole day to visit Greenwich don't forget the "Cutty Sark" and "Gypsy Moth", each in their own dry docks close by the Museum and model shop. There are plenty of places to eat (& drink) like The Trafalgar Tavern, next to the RN College & on the river front (and as used by Charles Dickens) Although my favourite haunt(a few years ago) was a small pub on the river front called "The Yacht" which was just past The Trafalgar, along the alley and before the power station. My late Grandfather was born, and married in Greenwich, joined the RN there, ended up in the RN Hospital (next to the RN College)having been injured during the Naval Brigade campaign in S. Africa in late 1800's. (HMS Dwarf & HMS Forte). Sorry if all this is "going off the modelling track" but Greenwich obviously means a lot to me... All the best for a good visit Norman -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: "chenyangzhang" Subject: HMS Berwick Hi Falk The photos of Berwick in Man O'War 1 County Class Cruisers (Raven and Roberts) should provide the answers you need. Chris Langtree -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: "FCR" Subject: Re: Current Projects and Good, Bad and Ugly Hello SMMLiers Current projects: - USS Indianapolis (CA-35) - bombarding Japanese land targets - Admiral Graf Spee - Battle of River Plate - HMS Tiger (C20) - Helicopter refueling operations - Kako (CA) - First Battle of Savo Island - Oscar and Alfa (SSGN/SSN) - In a dock at Murmansk - USS Bataan (CVL29) - Simple (almost finished) - Ukuru class escort (kaibokan) - Launching Depth-Charges (almost finished) That is all for the next one or two years. My opinions and classifications for "Good, Bad and Ugly": Good: 1 - HMS Hood (CB) - The prettiest ship of the World. 2 - Kirov class (BCGN) - Aren't they so peaceful?!? 3 - Chokai class (CA) - Completely unusual for heavy cruisers. Bad: 1 - South Dakota class (BB) - What a tub!!! 2 - Titanic - Please. 3 - Typhhon (SSBN) - I love the submarine but what a whale. Ugly: 1 - Nimitz class (CVN) - No comments   2 - Tarawa class(LHA) - It looks like a shoes box 3 - Sea Shadow (?) - Is that a ship?!? Thanks for the opportunity. Sometimes it is good to change personnel opinions. Please that no one feels offended. Happy Modeling Filipe Ramires Portugal -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: ALROSS2@aol.com Subject: Re: "Bobtail Cruiser" Lindberg's "Bobtail Cruiser" is supposed to represent CARRONADE (IFS-1), a purpose-built follow on to the LSM(R) of WWII. It looks somewhat like the last series of LSM(R)s, but with a much larger superstructure. You can get BUSHIPS drawings of CARRONADE from The Floating Drydock (http://www.floatingdrydock.com). It would certainly make a unique model. Al Ross -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: More display space answers >> Another option, is your local Serviceman's Club. Here in Australia, a lot of the clubs have small displays & I'm sure will glady accept models for display. << A couple more ideas to give your models good homes. Check out your local Naval recruiter. They would be tickled to death for good ship models. While you're at it check out your local veterans hospital. Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. http://www.okclive.com/flagship/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: New current project I finished and sent off the 1/350 USS Salem model. I'm not a big WW2 ship guy but I must admit it builds into a striking model. I do have one constructive criticism though. The photo etch sheets were very nice and very delicate. It adds incredible detail to the model. However, I have never been a fan of attaching such thin and delicate parts with so much support sprue. Many of the parts were attached on parts as thin as railing. Trimming PE at such delicate points inevitably leaves small nubs. Since the PE is so delicate, it couldn't be cleaned up with files or sandpaper. The nub couldn't be trimmed flush because of the risk of cutting the delicate parts in half. I understand why the PE was designed in this manner. It is a space saving technique I use sometimes when designing my sets. Just constructive criticism Steve. Great model. I'll buy one of those for myself. My next project I am well into is the master patterns for the Bofors 40mm a/a gun mount. Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. http://www.okclive.com/flagship/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: KDur597268@aol.com Subject: Glencoe S.S. United States et al Having mentioned it as one of my favorite-looking ships, I now wonder about kits. What is the Glencoe 1/400 kit like? Think there's also a Revell in a much smaller scale? I've never heard anything about either. Anybody care to opine? Someone just posted this on RMS, and although I have yet to explore it, the timing was such that I had to pass it on! http://www.ss-united-states.com/index.html The SS United States Ocean Liner..World's Fastest Luxury Liner..Welcome Thanks Ken Durling -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 21) From: Alan Simon Subject: Re: Bobtail Crusier Lindberg's Bobtail Cruiser represented USS IFS1 (Inshore Fire Support), an experimental amphibious support ship which served on active duty from the 1950's until about 1960 (including a period of deactivation). Hard to imagine how effective it could be in its role with 1 - single 5"/38 and various WWII vintage AA guns. Curiously, Lindberg claimed a scale of 1/160, which is perfect for N-Scale model railroading. But what an unlikely addition to a model RR! Alan Simon Atlanta, Ga. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 22) From: Dave Baker Subject: BOBTAIL CRUISER The Lindbergh "Bobtail Cruiser" kits represented U.S.S. CARRONADE (IFS 1), the USN's only post-WW II attempt at constructing a fire-support ship. She used the same autoloading 102-mm rocket launchers as did the later LSMR conversions from WW II. CARRONADE participated in the early part of the Vietnam conflict (along with several of the surviving LSMRs) but was brought home and retired. She and the LSMRs could put out a tremendous volume of fire but would quickly exhaust their supply of barrage rockets. CARRONADE also had a 5-in 38-cal. DP gun and, if I remember correctly, two twin 40-mm Mk 1 Mod. 2 AA mounts.--same armament as did the later LSMRs. Best/Dave -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 23) From: DRPREUL@aol.com Subject: USS Nashville & USS Texas Someone requested camo info on USS Nashville CL 43 1942........MS 12 Splotch 1942-43... MS 11 or 21 1943........MS 21 1944........MS 16 Dazzle (same on both sides) 1945........MS 21 USS Texas, Mark Flake asked for AAs on Texas while at Normandy and at Cherborg. This is An interesting fact about the USS Texas, at this time which alot of people didn't know about her. Just before going to Normandy the Texas had her catapult removed in England and reinstalled after she got back from Cherborg. I have photos of her having the cat. removed In Powers book there is a photo of her off of Cherborg receiving shots from 280mm shore batteries, notice in the photo that the catapult is gone. Just a tidbit of info for your records. Fellow modeler Don Preul J&D Productions, Annapolis Md. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 24) From: "Jeffry J. Fontaine" Subject: Re: Bobtail Cruiser question from Tom Eisenhour Subject: White Glue Hi you all.. Synchronisity rears its ugly head. James Kloek's post couldn't have come at a better time. Here I am currently putting P/E GM rails on the dreadful Ozmods HMAS Voyager kit, using superglue. Am now trying White Glue (Selley's Aquadhere) and I find it great for filling any gaps between the bottom of the rails and the deck of the model. Whereas the superglue would spill over and blotch the paintwork showing up glossy. I also find the Selley's Aquadhere less viscous and therefore can be manipulated more. Thanks for your post James! Simon Wolff -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 27) From: "Morley, James (London)" Subject: Model shops in Greenwich Colin, The outlet you are looking for is "Maritime Models" on Nelson Rd. This is my local (I live in Greenwich) so to speak, and they have a small, but interesting shop. They are actually trying to start a new trend of modellers displaying in their shop, and passers-by (read: tourists) being invited to make an offer on a particular display they want. Depending on when you go - my HMS Hood might just be there! Nelson Rd is the main Naval/book/antique shopping road running parallel to the river, roughly 2 blocks inland from the Cutty Sark. Maritime museum has just reopened after massive renovation and redesign. Haven't been yet, but I hear it's good regards James Morley -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Jeffrey Roberts" Subject: WTB HP Modell kits I'm interested in purchasing the HP Modell kits of the Dutch cruisers Java, Sumatra and Tromp but have been unable to obtain them through WEM, which is the only source I know of for HP Modell kits. Can anyone suggest alternate distributors of these kits? Please feel free to email me offlist with suggestions. Thanks. Jeffrey Roberts North Hollywood, California -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume