Subject SMML12/09/99VOL666 Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 00:46:48 +1000 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: USS Cabot (CVL-28) apparently lost to scrapper 2: Re: Giuseppe Garibaldi 3: WW2 Independence class 4: National Geographic - I-52 5: On/Off Topic 6: HMS Cornwall 7: Re: GROM Wz.40 8: RN WWII deck plank widths 9: Tamiya Bismarck 10: USS Louisville 11: Re: Cutty Sark 12: Re: Oklahoma "CITY" 13: Re: OT 14: A-I Conversions 15: Italian WWII BB book 16: Modelkrak or Kombrig Kits: Which is Better 17: Re: SMML get-together and knees-up bash/IPMS UK -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: NRG Web Site Update 2: NRG Conference Registration - A Plea 3: FS: "the Tide at Sunset" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS Hi gang, Well the last test post of the new list is going out tonight, with the changeover to the new distribution list taking place for Vol 668. If you wish to re-subscribe, please tell me, so I can add you to the new list. Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Michael C. Smith" Subject: USS Cabot (CVL-28) apparently lost to scrapper According to the AP wire, the Cabot was auctioned off to the scrapper for a high bid of about $185,000. The miami preservation group could only bid $180,000 - the rest of their money was committed to restoration IF they got the ship. The scrapper immediately offered to sell the ship for 25% over the winning bid, but they were tapped out. Hopefully someone will see this as a final chance to acquire the ship for a sum certain and step in. Otherwise the ship will be sent overseas for scrapping as soon as (and if) it is clearly for environmental hazards. What a shame. Michael Smith Marshall, Texas -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "J. London" Subject: Re: Giuseppe Garibaldi Re: Giuseppe Garibaldi as a guided missile cruiser. If the member requesting info cares to e-mail me their address I will be happy to mail them 1:1200 scale plans and particulars. Mike London -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "Alan Lindstrom" Subject: WW2 Independence class Can someone help me out with what would have been a typical aircraft complement for an Independence-class light carrier in the Pacific in the second half of 1944? Alan -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: Ed Grune Subject: National Geographic - I-52 Hello SMMLies I just finished watching a new National Geographic program on the search for and debris recovery. The USS Bogue & airgroup jumped this sub & a German U-boat after a rendezvous in the South Atlantic. They used ULTRA intelligence to decode the meeting point. The IJN sub was inbound to France with 2 tons of gold + Uranium. They had recordings of the attack including sounds of the torpedo detonation from sonobuoys. The I-52 was located 3 miles down, pretty much upright. Conning tower was intact with hull number still visible. The bow was broken up -- probably due to impact with the bottom. Aft of the conning tower there was a big hole -- fatal -- from the torpedo. Debris was scattered -- they never found the gold. The anti-aircraft guns were still loaded and were trained out. They found a shoe which was recovered & returned with honors to the JMSDF-Navy at Kure. Watch for a re-broadcast, Ed Mansfield, TX -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: KDur597268@aol.com Subject: On/Off Topic Harold wrote: >> Is it just me, or is this list getting way off the point with endless messages about ugliest ships and current projects (both of which are very subjective) ? This used to be a forum for exchanging ideas and hints on building ship models and ship research. Does anyone else find that it is becoming just a bit tedious? << Harold, I am a relative newcomer to this group, so I don't don't presume much, but I do have to chime in and say that I'm doing a lot of scrolling to find stuff about model ship building! Although I did personally contribute to the G/B/Ugly thread, I did have a nagging sort of guilty feeling about it - sort of like "this is kind of silly." And I am personally really tired of the extremely repetitive IPMS debate, but that's just me. And now a trivia contest? Let's do it off-line, please. Next thing you know we'll be discussing desserts in the O'Brien novels and what actress should play Sophie. Oops. Sorry I mentioned it! It could be that in the switch of list management there was a "vote" to go to more open list content, in which case I guess we just keep scrolling. This list DOES have the unusual advantage of having a table of contents, which I truly appreciate. Plus I basically DO enjoy the people here, regardless of their posts. But I don't always have time to to "read the columns" you know. I vote for more substance. Respectfully, Ken Durling -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: "chenyangzhang" Subject: HMS Cornwall Hi WRPRESS You still haven't said when Cornwall is supposed to have acquired camouflage and what the pattern was. Whilst the letter might be detailed (though the ommission about the deck is curious) the writer might have got the dates wrong. You have not presented enough of the letter to prove your argument. When did the writer claim the Cornwall was camouflaged? As I've mentioned I have no trouble with a date of May 26 or later (are you suggesting an earlier date? - photographic evidence does not support this). You're also only partially right about the incompletness of photos. The problem arises with a lack of date but otherwise the photo is always the most important bit of evidence and the one to look for first. My argument is that you should look for photos first then other bits of evidence rather than the other way round. We both know that there are photos out there which will probably solve this dispute one way or the other but the trouble is finding them. Chris Langtree -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: "David N. Lombard" Subject: Re: GROM Wz.40 >> On the Grom and Blyscawica, I think yesterday's post was correct in suggesting that Wz. 40 for the Grom indicates her rig in 1940 and that Wz. 44 for the Blyscawica indicated her rig in 1944. Mirage also makes a 1938 Grom and a post-war Blyscawica. << Yes. Wz. 40 means the 1940 fit. I think the specific word is wzor (the "o" has an accent printed over it), meaning model, plan. The Mirage GROM has extremely fine moldings, with an excellent fit. Abe Taubman also publishes 1:100 and 1:200 plans for GROM. David Lombard, Rossmoor, Orange County, CA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: "Raynor Johnston" Subject: RN WWII deck plank widths Can anyone advise what size the planking would be on the upper deck of 1942s H.M.S. Ariadne (fast minelayer), or alternatively what size would probably be correct. There is only a small part planked below the bridge but I want to get it right. Thanks Raynor Johnston (NZ) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: "Robert Lockie" Subject: Tamiya Bismarck I was visiting a toy tank show today and came across a Tamiya 1/350 Bismarck at a silly price, so I rashly went and bought it (telling all my fellow AFV modellers that it was - er - for a friend). I cannot claim too much knowledge of what (if anything) is wrong with it but assume that a P/E set is a must so that will be first on the list. Any of you experten out there able to point me to sources which point out what other work needs to be done? I will not worry about turret top colours at this stage as I can do without being blamed for resurrecting that thread...... Cheers Robert Lockie Cambridge UK -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: Robert Weilacher Subject: USS Louisville I have been looking at my 1/700 Corsair Armada USS Louisville today in hopes of starting it soon. I notice that the instructions say that 5-N Navy Blue might have been used instead of Dull Black in the camoflage scheme 32-6D. The Classic Warship Pictoral Book (#3) shows the scheme with Dull Black, like the origional Navy Design Sheet. Anyone care to comment if 5-N or Dull Black is more appropriate? Any specific building comments on the kit? Thanks, Rob -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: Mike Settle Subject: Re: Cutty Sark >> Damm, all this talk of Greenwich has influenced me badly. As a consequence, at today's APMA auction, I was forced to pay AUD$30.00 for the Revell 1/96 Cutty Sark. Now where the hell am I'm going to put it ;-)). Shane - who's now fondling a new set of tits. << Shane, It might be OK to let Mistress Lorna find out about the Cutty Sark, but if she finds out about that last statement, the first SMML convention we all attend will be your funeral and burial at sea. :-þ Mike Settle I am not agent #1908 of the non-existent Lumber Cartel (tinlc)tm Hi Mike, Well apart from the fact that the Mistress was buying kits anyway - so the Cutty Sark is ok. I mean how can you hide that big box anyway. For those curious about the tits - well thats's the 1/1(?) Airfix Bluetits kit I picked up yesterday. As well as more Z class DD's & the Italeri USS Ranger amongst other OT kits. Shane - exhausted after helping to judge & man an APMA model display at the NSW Air League model competition & Review. Boy, were there some great models there, including some by the fairer sex. Mainly aircraft, but the standard from ages 8 & up was very high. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: Oklahoma "CITY" Sorry about the mistake on the Oklahoma City. One word changes a lot does it not? I live in Edmond Okla. It's a bedroom community just outside Oklahoma City. That's why I have an avid interest in this ship. I checked out the USS Oklahoma City web site. Interesting but short on modeling help. A couple of pretty good photos of the Okla. City in her early sixties configuration. Still need those photos or drawings of the Talos Missiles and launchers. Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. http://www.okclive.com/flagship/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: "Bill & Kaja Michaels" Subject: Re: OT >> Is it just me, or is this list getting way off the point with endless messages about ugliest ships and current projects (both of which are very subjective) ? This used to be a forum for exchanging ideas and hints on building ship models and ship research. Does anyone else find that it is becoming just a bit tedious? << I agree. Good/bad/ugly, trivia questions, Iowa's bathtub, Texas vs New York, etc., etc., etc are all off topic, IMO. I don't object to the occasional off-topic post, but I don't personnally care for the ones that spawn dozens and dozens of responses..... Of course, replying to a post about being off topic is probably also off topic.... Bill (part of the problem?) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: Brian Selzler Subject: A-I Conversions Hello listees, While wandering through Shane's shiplist on the APMA website, I noticed that Airfix magazine had an article in it's August 1964 issue dealing with HMS A-I class conversions of their 1/600 Hotspur, I presume. Does anyone have this article close at hand and can give a synopsis of it's content and venture an opinion of it's usefulness these 35 years later? regards, Brian Hi Brian, I've just had a quick squiz at the article. It's a three page article which as you surmised deals with the conversion potential of the Airfix Hotspur. As for the usefulness of the article. Although I can't comment on the accuracy of the article, if you can get the issue or a copy of it - I would recommend it, as it looks very worthwhile IIRC, Felix Bustelo is either currently building the kit or planning to, so he may want to chime in with his opinion of the article as well. Regards, Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: Minadmiral@aol.com Subject: Italian WWII BB book Hi; I found a book in my stacks I had forgotten. _Regia Marina-Italian Battleships of WWII-A Pictorial History_, by Bagnasco and Grossman. Lot of pictures, and some nice sketches of camoflage patterns with color guides for the Italian battleships. Anyone familiar with this? Are the camoflage patterns and colors good? Are there any more books in this series? Chuck Duggie -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: "Dilys Wong" Subject: Modelkrak or Kombrig Kits: Which is Better Dear Smmlies: Knowing Modelkrak and Kombrig all producing some Russian pre-dreadnoughts, could someone kindly tell me which resin producer is better (also in terms of quality of instruction manual), and which kits of them is worth for collection. Loiloi -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: "Caroline Carter" Subject: Re: SMML get-together and knees-up bash/IPMS UK Well, after following the threads on this, a few comments. First, I agree with White Raven Press and others who suggest a Spring meeting on the East coast. I would add to this that it be out of "official" holiday times for everyone.... ie. avoiding the high Easter airfares for Yanks and Limeys... Even off-peak, we are looking at 300.00 pounds ($480.00) each for a London-Boston airfare. I don't know how this compares with a West-East Coast fare off-peak but to get to e.g. somewhere like Chicago for us is around 50% higher than the afore-mentioned... there are a number of SMMLlie folk from Europe who would make this trip. USS Salem? Great stuff. Can never turn down a piece of floating history. I would also agree with Jeff Herne re. his comments about "no trade". This gives us all the opportunity to meet with each other without any "have to sell" "have to buy" pressure on anyone at the meet. Well, I've said my bit. I also wanted to express my approval at Rob Sullivan's message on to SMML. It is nice to know that Rob considers SMML an appropriate place to discuss such matters! Now we are back to "bigger than 1/500 Scale ship models" and "Smaller than 1/700 Scale ship models", plus a new scratchbuilt ships class, and "Ship's dioramas", we need to show the UK IPMS that ship modellers mean business! So, to all those "waverers" out there, PLEASE enter as many ship models as you can carry into this year's UK IPMS event. No matters if it is not your finest efforts.. no matter if you think you haven't got a hope in hell of winning... people go to the Nationals to find inspiration, to admire, AND to buy toys for their next project (or loft insulation!), and it might be the way you rigged a ship, or the way you painted your model, that will inspire someone else to build and enter next year. Also, Rob has asked for suggestions for further breakdowns of the ships classes for the Y2K biggie next year, so put your ideas on paper and send them in (and that goes for IPMS-ers worldwide!) Regards, Caroline PS: News (as requested!) "Diving Dave" went for an extended "walkabout" yesterday, and, despite an abnormally high level of fatigue, and weak calf muscles, was fine. Got him into buying a load of books on local history/Archaeology (Neolithic thru Roman) as distraction therapy, specially since a large Roman city (pop. 2000) has just been discovered by aerial photography only 2 miles away!! AND he's finally catching up on some modelling! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Vincent McCullough" Subject: NRG Web Site Update The NRG web site has been updated to include two new pages. The first page contains the table of contents for the September 1999 issue of the Nautical Research Journal. We have continued our practice of publishing overflow material not included in the printed Journal on the web. This month we include additional photographs of Tom McGoonan's cut-away model of the USS Holland, America's first submarine. This material will remain on the Web site for a period of three months after publication and distribution of the Journal to NRG members, which will occur in late September. We have also updated the web site to include another of our quarterly series "50 Years Ago in the Nautical Research Journal." This quarter we've republished an article by Winthrop Pratt, Jr., published in September, 1949. The article, entitled "ON PARTS OF A CANNON," illustrates and defines the various parts of a cannon, and provides some information on measurements. The Nautical Research Guild's web site can be found at http://www.naut-res-guild.org and includes these and other resources for model ship builder and maritime researchers. Vince McCullough NRG Webmaster Chantilly, VA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: Gene Larson Subject: NRG Conference Registration - A Plea The Nautical Research Guild Conference in San Diego on November 4-7 is less than eight weeks away. As is typical, attendees wait until the last few weeks to send in registration material for the conference and the ship model display. Recent conferences have had large attendance, and the organization for the event is much easier when the numbers are known several weeks ahead. This is the first NRG Conference to be hosted on the West Coast! Come meet other ship model builders, have great discussions, and buy lots from the vendors. Please send in your registration now, and tell non-list fellow modelers to do the same. This makes it much easier for the host organization, the San Diego Maritime Museum, to accomplish its tasks. A color brochure was sent to all NRG members by the museum about a month ago, and notices have appeared in the model magazines. The conference IS OPEN TO NONMEMBERS also. Details of the weekend and registration information can be seen at: http://www.Naut-Res-Guild.org/confer.html Or send me your snail mail address OFF LIST and I will mail you a brochure. Thanks, Gene Larson, Alexandria, Virginia mailto:genenrg@Naut-Res-Guild.org Nautical Research Guild, Inc. http://www.Naut-Res-Guild.org "A non-profit, tax exempt, charitable, educational organization with international membership, dedicated to maritime research and accurate ship model building." -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: Minadmiral@aol.com Subject: FS: "the Tide at Sunset" Hi; With almost 1100 books I sometimes forget what I have. I even occasionally buy duplicates. Anyone need a copy of Warner`s _The Tide At Sunrise_? Russo-Japanese land and naval history . $15 plus postage. Chuck Duggie -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume