Subject SMML17/09/99VOL671 Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 00:32:29 +1000 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: Making portholes 2: Re: Bofors guns 3: H M S Jamaica 4: Re: Question regarding OH Perry FFG's 5: IJN BB Nagato 6: HMS Submarine M1 7: Re: Question regarding OH Perry FFG's 8: 1/400 Bofors 40mm 9: Re: HMS Kellington 10: USS Panay 11: Model Shipwright and Zara 12: Re: NAVAJO KIT 13: Ship Model Exchange-Wargame models 14: Anatomy Fuso Book 15: HMS Onslow & semtex -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: Fletcher Questions -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS Hi gang, A special hello & well wishes to the American SMMLies caught up in Hurricane Flloyd. Keep safe & well. Shane & Lorna -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: Making portholes >> how do you represent the portholes? << Mark, You got it right. You can use a Xacto no. 11 blade and fill the hole with a dark wash. No one will be able to tell it has a pointed bottom after adding the wash. You can also use a pin vise with the appropriately sized drill bit. Use the no. 11 Xacto blade to mark where the porthole goes. Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. http://warship.simplenet.com/Flagship.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: Bofors guns >> Does anyone knows a 1/400 Bofors 40mm gun? Even a 1/350 could work. There's one? << Dave, Classic Warships sells 40mm Bofors guns I believe. There were some slightly different guns in the USS Salem kit I just built. The Salem guns were twin 50s so a quad or twin Bofors would be easy to do. The twin 50s were pretty nice. The base to the guns are very nice but the barrels on the guns were bent being made of metal. They were easy to straighten out and it builds into a nice looking gun. The guns in my kit came with no photo etch, but you can get those through my company (sights, rails etc.) if you wish. Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. http://warship.simplenet.com/Flagship.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: WRPRESSINC@aol.com Subject: H M S Jamaica Am looking for views of the cruiser Jamaica dated late 1942 and early 1943. In this period the ship was believed to be painted in a two tone disruptive camouflage pattern. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: "Jeffry J. Fontaine" Subject: Re: Question regarding OH Perry FFG's >> I know that the early FFG's had a short hull and carried SeaKing Lamps I. My question is since only one bird was carried did the hangar have dual doors or were they modified into duals with the advent of the LAMPS III? << Hello Christopher; The LAMPS Mark I helicopter is the SH-2 Seasprite built by KAMAN. This is the helicopter normally associated with the Perry Class built with the shorter hull. The Sikorsky SH-60 Sea Hawk, LAMPS is helicopter is associated with the long hull Perry Class Frigates. The physical size of the SH-3 Sea King helicopter precludes it from being classified as a LAMPS helicopter (Light, Airborne, Multi-Purpose, System) and in U.S. Navy service the SH-3 is normally associated with Aircraft Carrier Helicopter Anti-Submarine Squadrons (HS-_ ) while the Seasprite is assigned to Light Helicopter Anti-Submarine Squadrons (HSL-_) which normally operate from the Frigates, Destroyers and Cruisers. And as to the original Question, the Perry Class FFG's were all constructed with two separate hangars to accommodate two LAMPS helicopters. Regards, Jeffry Fontaine Bremerton, Washington -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: Mike Connelley Subject: IJN BB Nagato Howdy Y'all: I am considering getting the new Aoshima Nagato and scratchbuilding the underwater part of the hull for a 1/700 scale full hull model (don't worry Duane, the Mo' still has priority! This is only a side project to test scratchbuilding techniques I'll use on the Mo'...plus I really "dig" the Nagato class). My question is: did the Nagato have one rudder or two? I read that most battleships and other large ships (Yamato excluded) have two, as was the case with the Fuso and Yamashiro. The drawings I have only show port and starboard views and the hull cross sections don't show where the rudder(s) are and I haven't seen any photos of this area of the ship nor have I ever seen a full hull Nagato. Please, please help me! Cheers Mike -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: Norman Alfred Sells Subject: HMS Submarine M1 Hi SMMLers, For those of you interested in RN submarine models and associated information there is interesting article in today's issue of the "Daily Telegraph" (UK) on page 16. This features the recent discovery of the exact location of the wreck of the submarine M1. It was found by sports divers in the English Channel aprox 35 miles south-east of Plymouth at a depth of 240ft. It is nearly intact appart from the huge 12" !!! gun that was fitted for'ard of conning tower. The gun barrel became detached when she sank with the loss of her crew in November 1925, the barrel lying nearby. The article includes a diagram of the mid section of the vessel and also a photo taken of her on the surface in front of anchored RN battleships, possibly at a fleet review. Yours from a wet UK Norman -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: JOHN A BURCH Subject: Re: Question regarding OH Perry FFG's >> I know that the early FFG's had a short hull and carried SeaKing Lamps I. My question is since only one bird was carried did the hangar have dual doors or were they modified into duals with the advent of the LAMPS III? << Chris, The FFG class as built have always had two separate hangars, unlike the DD 963 Class or CG 47 Class which have a single hangar. Although an early design provided for carrying only one helo, the final, production design for FFG 7 provided for the two helos, as directed by DoD. The hangars are separated by a wide passageway which leads to the Aviation Ordnance Magazine for ASW torpedoes, sonobuoys and (later) Penguin missiles. FFGs 7 through 35 (First and Second Flights) were designed for the SH-2F Seasprite helo (LAMPS MK I), which used a straight in landing approach. FFGs 36 through 60 (Third and Fourth Flights) and FFG 61 (virtually a single ship Fifth Flight) were designed for SH-60B Seahawk helos (LAMPS MK III), which used a diagonal landing approach. A capstan in the center of the fantail needed to be moved out of the SH-60B landing approach, which resulted in the "tilted transom" for FFGs 36 through 61, which lowers the capstan below the level of the Flight Deck. Note that Flight Deck markings are different for the two different helos. The RAST System, associated with LAMPS Mk III, provides dual tracks inlet into the Flight Deck for maneuvering the SH-60 helos in and out of the two hangars. A RAST control station is located forward, half submerged into the starboard side of the Flight Deck. Some of the First and Second Flight Ships were subsequently modified to the LAMPS MK III standard, with the tilted transom (e.g., FFG 8, McINERNEY). The US built Australian FFGs (USN hull numbers 17, 18, 35 and 44) were subsequently modified to take the export version of the Seahawk helo (S-70); this included the tilted transom, but does not include the LAMPS MK III electronics, as an Australian system was used instead. RAN FFGs 05 and 06 were built with RAST and the tilted transom. Helos are not regularly carried on FFGs until the ship deploys. During workups, helos may fly from shore sites to participate in predeployment exercises. If the helos have to land and operate from the ship during workups, a "pack up" maintenance kit is carried. During deployments FFGs mostly carry only one helo, but if the Battle Group doesn't otherwise carry sufficient helos, two will be embarked. Since current DDG 51 Class ships don't have a helo hangar, FFGs may embark two helos to provide one helo for use by a DDG 51 (LAMPS MK III is a highly integrated system providing Command and Control, ASW, Radar and EW processing between one helo and one ship via a Data Link). Hope the foregoing helps. John Burch Gaithersburg, Maryland USA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: Sheridan John Contr 66 ABW/SCX Subject: 1/400 Bofors 40mm >> Does anyone knows a 1/400 Bofors 40mm gun? Even a 1/350 could work. There's one? << Classic Warships makes a 1/350th Bofors. You can find it at http://www.classicwarships.simplenet.com/new.htm John Sheridan Visit my USN Ship Camo site at: http://home.earthlink.net/~jrsheridan/ I am not a Member of the Lumber Cartel (tinlc) and I am not Unit #631 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: "Peter Hall" Subject: Re: HMS Kellington >> The village of Kellington which this ship was named after has family connections, and I've being toying with the idea of modelling her. Checking in my Conway Bible she's listed as TS 1993, the same as her sister ship HMS Iveston. Since I know the Iveston is in use as a Sea Cadet Training Ship in Tilbury Docks, I assume from this that HMS Kellington has met a similar fate - does anyone on list know where? I know WEM have done HMS Nurton in 1:350 which could probably be built to represent HMS Kellington in later life without too much trouble, but I would prefer to model in 1:700, which looks like a scratchbuild - anyone know of published plans? << Hi Dave, HMS Kellington was tied up on the River Tees at Stockton, I think it is still there as it was being used as a Sea Cadet HQ training ship. The plans I used to make the Nurton pattern were from Jecobin and are still available through White Ensign Models. Regards Peter Hall -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: Bradford Chaucer Subject: USS Panay Hi Bob: A few questions: Take a look at the sternmost upper deck house. Specifically look at the sidewall/window area on the front end of the deckhouse on your right as you look at the forward most end of the piece. Does it look to you like the master was somewhat broken out when the mold was made How did you go about insuring that the 3 upper deck pieces were the same thickness, and how did you join them?? Did you join them before attaching to the hull or did you attach them piecemeal?? What changes did you make?? Do you have any decent reference material?? Regards, Bradford Chaucer -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: "Peter Mispelkamp" Subject: Model Shipwright and Zara Hi. Shane thanks for the correction, I don't subscribe to Model Shipwright - which explains why I forgot the title. My one active gray cell is overtaxed with trying to retain an up to date database of my 1/400 scale fleet. BTW - I just received my copy of the latest Squadron supplement and all four of Tauro's Zara's with PE are available at $30.00 a pop!! Peter K. H. Mispelkamp. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: Lamar Jones Subject: Re: NAVAJO KIT Dave Baker's clarification about ATF hull shape is welcome. I do happen to have copies of pre-war photos, really xerox copies from a General Motors magazine, of the earlier hull class. The copies show wonderful detail of Navajo, Seminole, and Cherokee. If someone would want a set I'll be happy to copy and send them on. These are pre-war, so the bridge gun tubs and the 40mm tubs on the boat deck aren't yet there. The counter shape is clearly evident and definitely shows the distinction between the Apache and subsequent hull numbers. By the way, Commander Models instruction sheet, such as it is, does identify the hull not as Navajo, but as Apache, so the mix up only requires the hull to be marketed as an Apache Class. Dave Baker's careful attention to things that matter is nice to have. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: Mike Connelley Subject: Anatomy Fuso Book Howdy: Those of you with the Anatomy of the ship series book on the IJN battleship Fuso may have noticed that all the scales are wrong (or at least they are on my copy...if I'm the only case please let me know!). Sometimes it's only off by a few percent, but in other cases it may say 1:100 when it's really 1:195, and in other cases the drawings change scale without notification of the new scale. I don't mean to complain about this book as the drawings are great and I'm sure the research is unimpeachable, but this scale issue is annoying. I will be generating a list of the scales of the drawings, page by page, for most of the drawings. For those pages I do not mention it is either a) it appears to be the same scale as the previous page, b) it's not necessary to know the scale (such as for a perspective view or a close up and he provides dimensions), or c) the scale is actually right which so far is only true for the first few general layout drawings. If anyone is interested in receiving this list please email me and I'll send it along. These scales are pretty easy to calculate yourself and it'd be interesting if there are differences between different copies of the same book. Cheers Mike Connelley -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: Shane Subject: HMS Onslow & semtex Hi gang, Well the Onslow is going nicely, but I've hit a minor dilemma. First off, the only paint plan I have for the deck, is the White Ensign Tribal profile, which I would assume to be fairly correct for Onslow as well. Any comments?? Secondly, semtex! I've been told that the latest thinking is that it's a medium dark grey colour, instead of the medium dark green that has been bandied about - most notably in Alan Raven's 1996/7 PSM articles on ship camouflage & on SMML. Can anybody either clear up or muddy the waters further, as I'd like to start painting shortly (some humbrol paint refs wouldn't go astray either ;-) ). Afer I clean up the pieces a bit more. Oh, & can anyone confirm that the lovely block of plastic on the bridge(part A4) needs to go. My sources tell me that it's a mistake on the original mould. BTW, the WEM O Class S/S fret by Peter Hall is really amazing - if you haven't got one & you own an O class DD - it's worth the money IMNSHO. Bodes well for the Hood build later on. Shane - looking at doing the second handpainted coat of paint on the fret now -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: WRPRESSINC@aol.com Subject: Fletcher Questions Warship Perspectives Fletcher Sumner and Gearing class Destroyers. This volume from W R PRESS has a complete detailed set of plans of a square bridge Fletcher, USS BLACK, plus photos and many camouflage patterns. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: Minadmiral@aol.com Subject: Ship Model Exchange-Wargame models Hi; I am starting a listing of who has what wargame scale ship models that they want to trade for other ship models, or sell. This is not intended for static or R/C models, except that there is a little overlap in the 1:600 and 1:1200/1250 ranges. I had thought of this primarily for the 1:6000 ships but let`s also include: 1:4800 1:3000 1:2400 1:2000 1:1250 1:1200 1:900 1:600 1:300 15mm 25mm. Let me give you an example of what I intend here. I have 1 extra of each of the following Hallmark 1:6000 ships 1-2B26 KING GEORGE V 1-2B93 Rebuilt HOOD `42 2-2B62 CAPETOWN I want the following: 1-1T91 CARRACIOLO 5-2U75 FLETCHER I will act as a point of contact only. I will not assume responsibility for any successfull or un successfull transactions. Send me your sale/trade list and e-mail address. I will update the list every 2-3 days and send it out as an attachment to those requesting it. If it get`s big enough I could see about using a shared file on WoodenWalls. Sound interesting? Chuck Duggie WoodenWalls Listmeister -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for having SMML at your home, why not stop by our home at: http://www.smml.org.uk -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume