Subject: SMML28/09/99VOL682 Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 01:56:24 +1000 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: Carrier horns 2: Richelieu Colors 3: Info on IJN subs 4: USS Guam 5: Scharnhorst and Gneiseau 6: USS Lexington CVT-16 7: POOR A-4/IT IS NO MORE 8: Sterling American Scout 9: Last US PT Boat 10: Casablanca and Commencement Bay Class..how many rudders? 11: Re: Ft. Drum 12: Re: Looking for a book 13: Kitty Hawk CV 63 14: Pre-WWII USN deck colors 15: IJN DD "Harusame" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: Trivia 2: Re: IJN Greens 3: Trivia #6 4: Book Available -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Al Superczynski Subject: Re: Carrier horns >> Also, the USN does provide limited operational support to foreign carrier navies. As such there is a requirement to operate Etendards (FN & Argies), Corsairs (FN).... << I think that last type should read "Crusader". It's been a long time since the Aeronavale flew Corsairs, and they never flew Corsair II's (A-7). Al http://www.up-link.net/~modeleral -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Torgeson Roger A KPWA" Subject: Richelieu Colors I have started the Heller Richelieu and have some doubts about one of the colors used on the 1943 camouflage scheme. Using the photos in Allied Battleships of World War II and 8 additional photocopies of pictures taken at the same time from the National Archives, I can't decide if the lightest color is Haze Gray 5-H or Light Gray 5-L. The way my luck has been running lately no matter which one I pick, the other will be the correct one. Roger Torgeson -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: Joe Costanzo Subject: Info on IJN subs Does anyone know of a good website for info on Japanese Submarines in WW2? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: "Jeff Herne" Subject: USS Guam John, There is no way Guam carried 5-N Navy Blue in place of 5-O Ocean Gray. The photos I have clearly show the contrast differences between the two colors. Measure 32 consisted of 3 colors, Dull Black, 5-O Ocean Gray, and 5-L Light Gray. In some cases, 5-N was substituted for Dull Black, but I have uncovered no data in my research (for the upcoming USN Camo book) that shows 5-N replacing 5-O. Measure 32 was intended to be an Intermediate Dazzle Pattern, with Measure 31 being dark, and Measure 33 being light. Replacing 5-O with 5-N would have made the Measure far too dark. Insofar as Dull Black being replaced with 5-N, I'd recommend asking John Snyder or Randy Short about that one, but my vote goesto Dull Black. Jeff Herne -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: Puckhead93@aol.com Subject: Scharnhorst and Gneiseau Can anybody give me some colors to use on the Scharnhorst and Gneiseau at the time of their break out into the Alantic? I'm hoping to get them here real soon and I'd like something accurate to go off of. Thanks Josh -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: Lisa and Bill Wiseman Subject: USS Lexington CVT-16 I have been tasked with building the USS Lexington CVT (AVT) 16 as she appeared in the mid '70's. I have the Kalmbach "Detail & Scale" of the Lexington. Tom over at The Floating Drydock doesn't list anything on the Lex except the first one. He does, however, have plans of other Essex Class carriers. I understand the Lex was considerably different in certain aspects from the other Essex. Unfortunately the research Material I have doesn't list specifics. Were the Lexington and the other Essex close enough to work from plans for one of her sisters? The photos in D&S show her with the bow all "cleaned" up, an angled flight deck, bridle catchers, and a total lack of air self defence weapons. Revell, at one time, put out a kit of the Lexington but it was in her WWII configuration. D&S lists this as the best starting point for the conversion. Any body know where I might lay my hands on one? I have the Lindberg Yorktown (1/525) and could work from there if need be. Any help would be appreciated. Doc Wiseman -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: Dave Baker Subject: POOR A-4/IT IS NO MORE Alas, the last A-4s were retired earlier this year,and the T-2s no longer make carrier visits (our "training carrier," the JFK, although in theory to have been available for training work, in reality deploys just like any other USN carrier and in fact either has just left or is about to leave on a 6-month deployment; for those interested, she is to revert to full U.S. Navy status at the beginning of Fiscal Year 2001 (1 October 2000) and will no longer be funded by the Naval Reserve Force). That said, I do seem to recall that there are still a couple of carriers that have one remaining horn, probably because they've not had a long yard period recently. For the gentleman wanting a copy of Chuck Hansen's monograph about the SAN FRANCISCO (which I had the honor of illustrating), he may still have a few copies. Try using your favorite search engine and search for ChuckLea, his trade name for his research business. For those searching for a copy of the Lacroix/Wells Japanese Cruisers of the Pacific War, it is back in the catalogue of Chatham Publishing in the U.K. and the United States Naval Institute Press in the U.S.A.; a small reprint run has been made, so if you want it, best hustle. Best/Dave Baker -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: "Bill & Kaja Michaels" Subject: Sterling American Scout Several people already identified the kit as the Sterling American Scout freighter kit. Sterling had a generally fair to poor reputation among modelers. I built some Sterling airplane models years ago. Some of them were OK, but many suffered from terrible die cutting and lousy wood selection. I heard equally bad things about the Misouri kit. I remember about 10 years ago a club member brought a Sterling "Emma C. Berry" to a club meeting. I remember that the die-cut hole in the main deck for the mainmast was a full mast diameter off to one side. (The owner said he was going to toss all the wood and scratchbuild using the plans.) No one mentioned what happened to Sterling. A couple of years ago, they were bought by Estes (the model rocket people) and I understand the operation was moved from Philadelphia to Colorado (Estes' location.) Estes has re-done some Sterling kits and re-released them under the "Strerling by Estes" logo. I've generally found the quality of Estes' rocket kits to be good, and I've heard that the kit quality is up. (If they just sharpened the dies, it would be a big improvement!) Estes has not announced, AFAIK, which Sterling kits would get overhauled and re-released.... Bill and Kaja Michaels -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: kayandco@earthlink.net Subject: Last US PT Boat There is a Houston, Texas "in water" yacht/boat show this weekend that is advertising "last U. S. P/T boat" with armament. Would appreciate any feedback or comments. Thanks, Stuart Batchelor -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: DigtalBuzz@aol.com Subject: Casablanca and Commencement Bay Class..how many rudders? I've been searching all over the net and just short of ordering plans, can someone please tell me what rudder configurations are there on Casablanca and Commencement Bay Class Escort Carriers? Also is there a good book on said Carriers w/quality details ( I already have the Squadron edition) thanks aRt -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: "singlar@pop.ma.ultranet.com" Subject: Re: Ft. Drum >> I am looking for a source of photos of Ft. Drum, Manila Bay...which looks something like the stern-third of a battleship I recently acquired one of the Classic Warship kits and am looking for some images to help put things in perspective. Any ideas? << Nat, there is a paperback book out about Fort Drum. I cannot remember where i bought it. You might try Pacific Front Hobbies. Bill has a pretty good selection of books. Good Luck, Steve Singlar Pelham, NH -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: "singlar@pop.ma.ultranet.com" Subject: Re: Looking for a book >> I too am looking for USS San Francisco (CA-38) A Technical History, by Chuck Hansen, self published in 1978? and reprinted in 1981. I can't find the request made in the last few days in this list for the same topic. I'm not trying to compete for the book, that person has first priority; after he has made a satisfactory deal, I would be very pleased to discuss purchase of a second volume with whomever might be willing to sell. << Gary, I have had good luck with some web search engines for books. Barnes & Noble (http://www.bn.com) Amazon.com whipper.abebooks.com bibliocity are a few examples. Good luck, Steve Singlar Pelham, NH -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: "Pletscher-Lenz-Schneider" Subject: Kitty Hawk CV 63 I got me the 1/700 Fujime kit of USS KITTY HAWK CV 63 and would like to build her in her 1960s configuration. Can anyone help me with some instructions on the alterations which are necessary to achieve this? Thanks in advance Falk Pletscher -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: "Alpaslan Ertungealp" Subject: Pre-WWII USN deck colors Just a short and quick question? What were the deck colors of USN ships in the 30's? (Buckley, Ward, etc.) Thanks. ALP -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: "VIDEOPAL S.L." Subject: IJN DD "Harusame" Hello I have bougth the IJN DD "Harusame" from Tamiya. She have four 25 mm triple mg mounts and she lacks of radar antennas types 13 or 22. Is correct this? Greetings Francisco Ronco Cádiz, Spain -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Jeff Herne" Subject: Trivia I've gotten a few emails regarding the definition of 'sunk', the fact that the Belgrano was not a 'USS' vessel when she sunk in combat...etc. So from this point forward...here are some rules... UNLESS I MENTION SPECIFICALLY MENTION AIRCRAFT, all combat loss questions are ship vs. ship. This includes, being torpedoed by submarines, depth charged, collisions, etc...dive bombing attacks and aircraft torpedo attacks will be considered aircraft questions and addressed as such... If a question regards a vessel, then the entire lifespan of the vessel in question is fair game... 'SUNK' is just that, and does not include capsizing or settling into the shallows as a result of near misses. Here are some examples of NOT SUNK: Myoko, Haruna, West Virginia, California. Here are examples of SUNK: Bismarck, Hood, Yamato, Arizona. Sunk from this point forward refers to vessels which are considered non-salvageable. I'm not being a nit picker about specific dates, I realize that our sources of info may vary. If the exact date is September 26, and somebody says September 25, it's close enough. Exceptions to this rule will apply to events for which there is no doubt, ie., Pearl Harbor, etc... As always, the rulings of the judge is final. If I find a question that I messed up, I will defer to the majority. From this point forward, since I intend to run this session for a total of 10 questions, if anyone has good trivia questions that I can use for later rounds, send them. You will receive 1pt. for submitting a question if you're participating, but obviously, will be excluded from answering. Try to make questions multiple parts for multiple points, we'll be here for years with one pointers. In the event of a tie at the last question, I have reserved a tie breaker question designed to baffle even the experts. Those persons who are tied will be required to answer the final question ON list. This keeps things fair... All complaints should be sent to Ireallycouldcare@jeffnet.com (just kidding) Jeff -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "John Snyder" Subject: Re: IJN Greens Talk about leading questions! Ken, you'll find IJN greens in our IJN paint chip set, waiting there for you to match them using your own favorite brand of model paints. John Snyder Snyder & Short Enterprises The Paint Guys -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "Jeff Herne" Subject: Trivia #6 This is the half-way point for this round...I thought this question would be tough, but the number of responses proved me wrong. The best written answer came from SMML newcomer Volker Häusler...reprinted here. >> The historical figure we were looking for is "Prinz Eugen von Savoyen-Carignan", born in Paris on October 18, 1663 and perished in Vienna April 21, 1736. His reputation comes from the victory at Zenta on September 11, 1697, which was one of the deciding battles of what the Habsburg empire called the "Tuerkenkriege" (turkish wars). Both the German and the Italian navy commisioned ships named after Prinz Eugen, the german one being a heavy cruiser that surived the war and was sunk during (more precisely: after) the atomic bombing test at Bikini, actually sinking near Kwajalein in December 46. As far as I know, "Prinz Eugen" (as "IX-300") also was the ONLY foreign cruiser ever serving in the US Navy. The Italian version of "Prinz Eugen" was a light cruiser of the "Condottieri" class (4th/"Aosta" group) that also survived WW II. The name was "Eugenio di Savoia" (with the nickname "Eugenio" in the Regia Marina), and she was decommisioned on June 26, 1951 and handed over to Greece on July 1, 1951. Her new name was "Helli" and she was finally removed from the list in 1964 and scrapped. << Correct responses were from (damn near everybody!!): 4 points: technoinfidel@webtv.net jmalondon@home.com cjmhughes@btinternet.com jdcorley@earthlink.net dhjonespsm@juno.com douglas.j.martin@email.msn.com johnsnyder@macnexus.org sanartjam@aol.com volker.haeuser@main-rheiner.de jjrule@idirect.com sarup@intnet.mu jefcat@msn.com richa5011@aol.com jecham3981@aol.com romoh@singular.gr raeplus@s-direktnet.de 3 points jpb@skynet.be brianselzer@bc.sympatico.ca minadmiral@aol.com 2 points spallen@wavecomputers.net 1 point to YHASIO@aol.com for the question - thanks Yunchi ! The standings through 5 rounds: douglas.j.martin@email.msn.com - 8 points richa5011@aol.com - 7 points sarup@intnet.mu.com - 5 points sanartjam@aol.com - 5 points YHSAIO@aol.com - 4pts. technoinfidel@webtv.net - 4pts. jmalondon@home.com - 4pts. cjmhughes@btinternet.com - 4pts. jdcorley@earthlink.net - 4pts. dhjonespsm@juno.com - 4pts. johnsnyder@macnexus.org - 4pts. volker.haeuser@main-rheiner.de - 4pts. jjrule@idirect.com - 4pts. jefcat@msn.com - 4pts. jecham3981@aol.com - 4pts. romoh@singular.gr - 4pts. raeplus@s-direktnet.de - 4pts. jpb@skynet.be - 3pts. brianselzer@bc.sympatico.ca - 3pts. minadmiral@aol.com - 3pts. spallen@wavecomputers.net - 2pts. jowfx@cs.com - 2pts. john.sutherland@amcom.co.nz - 2pts. THenrys@aol.com - 2pts. Christopher.Herron@PSS.Boeing.com - 1pt. mike.leonard@erols.com - 1pt. bbullock@thegrid.net - 1pt. Question #6: What SHIP am I??? (potential 4 point question) In 1914 I was part of the Grand Fleet. I took participated in the following actions: 1914, Heligoland 1915 Dogger Bank 1916 Jutland I served as the Flagship for the 2nd Light Cruiser Squadron. I also have the distinction of sinking the first German U-boat of WW1. Bonus question #1: Which U-boat did I sink, and on what date? Bonus question #2: One of my sisters was not so lucky, she was sunk by a U-boat in the North Sea AFTER Jutland. Who was my sister? Bonus #3: Ironically, the sister ship of the U-boat I sank, sank my sister. What U-boat sank my sister? GOOD LUCK! email all replies to: jherne@hotmail.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: "John Snyder" Subject: Book Available I have just obtained a second copy of USNI's _U.S. Coast Guard Cutters and Craft of World War II_. It's available for $40 + postage, first come, first served. John Snyder Snyder & Short Enterprises The Paint (& Book) Guys -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for having SMML at your home, why not stop by our home at: http://www.smml.org.uk -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume