Subject SMML05/10/99VOL689 Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 17:18:22 +1000 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Color 2: Prinz Eugen versus Admiral Hipper 3: Re: Old Revell Kits 4: Re: USS Pennsylvania/colors 5: Re: Kingfishers at Pearl Harbor 6: Arizona cats 7: USS Savannah Curtiss SOC-3 8: Re: USS Pennsylvania 9: Re: USS PENNSYLVANIA 10: Re: Bilge Pump 11: AMERICAN SCOUT Again 12: Photo-etched for Prinz Eugen 13: 1/700 decal sheet 14: Re: USS California 15: Common sense 16: Ship's call signs 17: Help with a new subscriber -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: Wanted: Profile Morskie No. 3 HMS York -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Doremus, Mark" Subject: Color I'm not going to go too far with this thread, we've nearly beat it to death already. But, Jim has a point, photographs and slick magazine paper cause the same color to have vastly different appearances. The backgrounds, black vs. blue also change the appearance of the color. With the black background, the blues look very blue, with the blue background they look greenish. Just another warning to take color pictures with a grain of salt I guess. Now if you want to talk garish blues,... about that tape you were using;^)))) Mark Doremus -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Paredes, Roberto" Subject: Prinz Eugen versus Admiral Hipper Hi, I bought Prinz Eugen from Revell-Germany and Admiral Hipper from Matchbox (This belog to Revell, too). Both kits are identical. How was their differences? Somebody help me? Regards, Roberto. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: Mike Connelley Subject: Re: Old Revell Kits Howdy: Not too long ago I reworked the old Revell USS Arizona. I modeled a la 1941, and I don't think she had any 3" guns on board. The 5"/25 guns I replaced with items from HR products which, although advertised to be in 1/384 scale, fit just right. I also got my boats and Kingfishers from them. I scratch built the 5"/51 casemates out of machined brass rod. The added PE for the Penn is limited to shields for the 5"/25 and radars (which apparently she didn't have at Pearl), and doesn't have the different boat cranes. The altered superstructure shouldn't be too hard to replicate with some styrene sheet, the same goes for the larger armored conn. While you have the sheet styrene and milliput out, please fix the hull. The bulges are hardly there and the area around the stern is totally wrong. While you're at it pay Rusty White a visit and use his surface props to replace the wacky kit ones. Other than that, my fixes were mainly along with the GMM set. HTH Cheers Mike Connelley -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: WRPRESSINC@aol.com Subject: Re: USS Pennsylvania/colors You state that the Pennsylvania was painted in Navy Blue in 1945, could you please tell me where that comes from. I ask because I believe that it is possible for the color to have been a dark gray, which came into use in December 1944 and replaced Navy Blue from that time on. So if you could give the reference for this, I would be interested as it would be against the policy of the time. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: "Steven P. Allen" Subject: Re: Kingfishers at Pearl Harbor All of my info indicates that the Knigfisher was the BB standard by 12/7/41, but that none were actually present aboard that morning (all on Ford island?). In fact, all (or most) of the stern cats were covered with awnings set up for Divine Services. As far as I can determine, the Kingfishers were "fitted" (ie, the necessary preparations for shipping them, like proper accessories) to Arizona in Puget Sound when she was there for work in mid-'41. Since I didn't have Kingfishers in 1/425 (and know of no source for them), my waterline diarama of her ostensibly shows her in Puget Sound for the Fleet Review week that year. Other work done at that time was re-arrangement of the .50 cals (swapping position with searchlights; I'm depending on my Friedman here). If anybody knows differnt, please pass it along, but be prepared to pay for a new, corrected name plate ;-) On a related note, does anyone know where I can find specs, dates, and numbers on the Seagulls that the BBs carried late war? Steve Allen -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: KDur597268@aol.com Subject: Arizona cats Hi folks - Acquired a Blue Max 1/48 Nieuport 28 at our club auction, and browsing through some online sites, found a Nieuport site: under the Profile for the 28 was mention of the fact that the USN had a dozen or so for catapult launch tests from USS Arizona. Can anyone refer me to pictures of said aircraft/ship combo and/or any descriptions of the operation? I'm assuming it was a turrett-mounted cat, so there are some interesting diorama possibilities suggested. TIA Ken D -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: WFulp@aol.com Subject: USS Savannah Curtiss SOC-3 I am building the Iron Shipwright USS Nashville into the USS Savannah. Does anyone know what color the SOC-3 aircraft were around 1942-1943. I have seen a lot of pictures showing these aircraft with a silver body and yellow upper wing. This seems like it would have been changed during war conditions but I am not sure. Any help would be appreciated! Thanks! Wayne Fulp -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: ironship@usit.net (Jon Warneke) Subject: Re: USS Pennsylvania Hi Everyone, >> USS Pennsylvania (BB 38) carried the following paint schemes: 1941 MS 1 (Dark Gray / Light Gray) 1942 MS 21 (Navy Blue) 1943 MS 21 (Navy Blue) 1944 MS 31a/6b (Navy Blue / Ocean Gray / Haze Gray) 1945 MS 21 (Navy Blue) << This is incorrect. Although a camoflauge pattern was prepared for the Pennsylvania, she never carried one. Photos from ONI-222, ONI-54, Friedman's U.S. Battleships, Keystone State Battlewagon, www.navsource.com, and other sources, from her January 1943 Mare Island reconstruction to her Hunters Point Refit in January 1945 show her to be in Ms. 21. This does include photos of Pennsylvania off Attu, Makin, Kwajalein, Eniwetok, Efate, Guam, Peleliu, Leyte and Lingayen. >> Floating Drydock (http://www.floatingdrydock.com) carries the pattern for MS 31a/6b << This pattern was applied to the Nevada in late 1944, but not to the Pennsylvania. The design sheet listed in The Floating Drydock catalog does list this pattern correctly as for the Nevada. The only battleships to have received an Ms. 31a scheme were Nevada, New York, Texas, and Arkansas, and these were applied in East Coast ports after their return from European operations in Sept.-Nov. 1944. Pennsylvania was in constant action from Operation Galvanic in Nov. 1943 through the landing at Lingayen Gulf in Jan. 1945, and the only listed stateside refits were in the San Francisco area. >> * Did Pennsylvania carry both radars (XCAM-1 and Mk3) on Dec. 7, 1941 or were they added in Mare Island in March 1942? << No. No radar sets are visible on Pennsylvania in the bow-on photo of her in the flooded drydock with Cassin and Downes. The CXAM and Mk. 3 sets were added during the February 1942 availability period at Mare Island. Jon Warneke Commander Series Models, Inc. I am Elmer J. Fudd, millionaire. I own a mansion and a yacht! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: "John Snyder" Subject: Re: USS PENNSYLVANIA On radar: I agree--no photographic evidence that she was radar-equipped on December 7, 1941 (whereas WEST VIRGINIA's antenna shows up very clearly in post-attack photos). On a conversion kit: Steve Wiper/Classic Warships had a conversion kit available at one time (I have one stashed away somewhere), but I'm not sure if he still markets it. You might want to e-mail him to find out. IIRC, it was basically the corrected superstructure and gun tubs, but did not include things like the 40mm mounts themselves, so.... John Snyder Snyder & Short Enterprises The Paint Guys -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: Tom Detweiler Subject: Re: Bilge Pump Hi Y'all; I am jumping in this topic a bit late, but one little toy pump that may be suitable for a bilge pump motor is a small vertical mounted DC motor/battery op unit called a Peristaltic Pump, sold by an outfit called American Science and Surplus at: htp://www.sciplus.com The pump has a low output and small size and is pretty cheap as I recall, like $4.95 or so. Just a thought. The company has LEDs, grain of wheat bulbs and other stuff usefull to modelers, as well as tools. Enjoy! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: "s" Subject: AMERICAN SCOUT Again I'd like to thank all the people who helped me identify my American Scout model. Now i would like to ask any one who has the instrucions on this model if they can send me a scan of the mast rigging. Once i have this i can finish the model. Thanks alot Skip -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: "Paredes, Roberto" Subject: Photo-etched for Prinz Eugen Hi again, Does Anybody know any photo-etched for Prinz Eugen? TIA, Roberto. Hi Roberto, If you're referring to the Revell 1/720, look no further than GMM's 1/700 WW2 German warship set. This gives you enough stuff to do virtually all the 1/700 German ships avaiable in plastic. It's a bloody good set IMNSHO ;-). I've already used part of it, a couple of years ago for my Z class DD & apart from railings, should have enough easily, for my Scharnhorst & Bismarck (with the pink polka dot turrets ;-) ) at some future time. I'm not sure of any other sets for the 1/720 Prinz Eugen. Regards, Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: Ives100@aol.com Subject: 1/700 decal sheet I have a set of beautiful 1:700 polyurethane resin submarines (Sturgeon, early Los Angeles, 688I and Seawolf) from Ralph Ratcliffe. Very beautiful and correctly detailed kits; however, the models came without decals. I would like to add draft numbers and appendage warnings to the subs. Who would make an appropriate set of decals in this scale? Thanks! Tom Dougherty -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: Derek Wakefield Subject: Re: USS California To Nick... >> -ISWs USS Tennessee 1944, it's so... wide << Yeah, she's a bit wide in the hips, but those blisters must have been a great comfort to the crew sailing in potentially sub infested waters. To James >> Included was the Tennessee/California/West Virgina, which looked to be a very nice kit, it can be built up into any of the three. I have built the 1941 California Ted also produced, and it also built up to a wonderful model. As has been noted several times on this list, Ted gives outstanding customer service. If you want that Prune Barge, go for it. I am going to, and then I will have two of them, before and after. << Sounds great (as if I wasn't already drooling enough). I'm hoping my current gig lasts long enough for me to save up enough to get the new CW 1941 California as well. Ever since I saw John Johnsey's "Two Tennessees" in the Feb 98 ish of FSM, I've wanted to work up a 1/350th scale equivalent of "Two Californias" - with the 41 model wearing a Measure 1 scheme (as at Pearl Harbor) and the 44 model wearing a Measure 32 scheme (as at Surigao Strait). Not only are the designs and color schemes diametrically opposed (making for a striking display), but it would represent the ship at two critical junctures of her career. TBK, it's that Measure 32 that scares the hades out of me. I admit, I'm strange in that I think that scheme looks cool in it's own right. Yet, I have no earthly idea where to even start to approach working on a ship with such a varied and wild paint scheme. I mean, jeeze louise....given the potential for adding detail at 1/350th scale, at what point do you stop building and start painting in order to get all the lines to match up (without wrecking the detail to begin with). Then there's the question of brush vs airbrush (a tool I have no experience with). At this scale, the airbrush is looking to be the best option, but then there's the level of detail to contend with. The masking techniques in the FSM Saratoga article would seem to work, but the more I study the details of the ship, my guess is that all of the compound lines and angles of the California (especially those of the superstructure and around/behind all of the guns amidships) would make that awfully hard to accomplish. Any suggestions on how to combat or work around such complications? Suddenly, cage masts don't seem nearly as daunting as they once seemed. I need to get a couple of more books on the California to study before I could begin to build them. Whether I ever enter them in a contest, I don't know. It'll probably depend on how they turn out, and how much a rather competitive friend decides to nag me . More than anything, I want these to have 3D representations of the ship for my own kicks and grins. Dasvidanya! _|_o_|_ Derek "Tiger" (/\)akefield /---(.](o)[.)---\ iscandar2@chatter.com o oo O oo o http://www.iscandar-66.org -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: "Debbie Hartman" Subject: Common sense Whatever happenned to orders from bu-ships orders on camoflauge patterns and changes [5-s to 5-n example] when a ship is in for repairs and a paint job {badly needed] and the yard has enough stockpile of say 5-s but not 5-n to do the job? I can not believe a warship desperately needed on station is going to sit and wait for the right color instead of using whats at hand and getting out as quickly as possible to get on station, especially in the early part of WW II. Im doubtful that all bases were fully stocked given the disruption and surprise of the japanese naval and air war machine. Let alone congress initially keeping a tight reign on the budget. Camoflauge patterns were not set in blood but adhered to as closely as possible when time and stockpiles allowed.and bent a little bit when speed and availability were more important. I love pink submarines and yes I ate the strawberries! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: "Doremus, Mark" Subject: Ship's call signs Thanks to Don, Tony and Steve for help with this one. Tin Can Sailors Assoc. website (http://www.destroyers.org/) had a number of ships call signs and radio names, but none for the Johnston DD-557 (Spell checkers don't know when you type in the wrong number). Don, you may want to tell TCSA about what you've done. Again Thank you, Thank you, thank you. Mark Doremus Eden Prairie, MN -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: Shane Subject: Help with a new subscriber Hi gang, Does anyone know a Loren Pike at loren.pike@mciworld.com? Loren first tried to subscribe a couple of months ago, but kept on bouncing from the word go & was deleted from the dist list fairly quickly. He sent in another subscribe message the other day & the same thing is happening again. If anyone does know Loren, could they either pass on SMML to him or get back to me with possibly a correct email address(??), so that I can send it to him normally. Any other suggestions are welcome. Regards, Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Michael Eisenstadt Subject: Wanted: Profile Morskie No. 3 HMS York Folks: Would anyone out there have Profile Morskie No. 3 HMS York? I'm looking to buy a copy so I can do a proper review (and build) of the Samek kit which just arrived. Thanks! Yours truly, Mike Eisenstadt -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for having SMML at your home, why not stop by our home at: http://www.smml.org.uk -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume