Subject: SMML06/10/99VOL690 Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 00:11:43 +1000 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: USS Pennsylvania 2: Re: BB aircraft 3: Re: PE for Prinz Eugen 4: NIEUPORT NEGATED 5: Re: Nieuport 28 CAT ops. 6: On Painting Camo 7: Mid-war SOC 8: Re: PE for Prinz Eugen 9: Ark Royal and Hood 10: Re: Common Sense 11: Re: USS PENNSYLVANIA 12: Hobby shop in Rio de Janeiro 13: Return to Midway 14: HMAS Canberra 15: Colors Question 16: Royal Canadian Navy color schemes-1950s 17: RN CV deck color 18: Pennsylvania Radar -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: NRG Shop Notes updates 2: Trivia #7 3: Message for John Collins 4: New from Tom's Modelworks -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "John Sheridan" Subject: Re: USS Pennsylvania >> 1944 MS 31a/6b (Navy Blue / Ocean Gray / Haze Gray) 1945 MS 21 (Navy Blue) << >> This is incorrect. Although a camoflauge pattern was prepared for the Pennsylvania, she never carried one. Photos from ONI-222, ONI-54, Friedman's U.S. Battleships, Keystone State Battlewagon, www.navsource.com, and other sources, from her January 1943 Mare Island reconstruction to her Hunters Point Refit in January 1945 show her to be in Ms. 21. This does include photos of Pennsylvania off Attu, Makin, Kwajalein, Eniwetok, Efate, Guam, Peleliu, Leyte and Lingayen. << Thanks for the info John. I got the MS 31a/6b for Pennsylvania from a text source and copied it onto the BB camo table. I adjust the BB camouflage table accordingly. John Sheridan Visit my USN Ship Camo site at: http://home.earthlink.net/~jrsheridan/ I am not a Member of the Lumber Cartel (tinlc) and I am not Unit #631 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: SantMin@aol.com Subject: Re: BB aircraft >> On a related note, does anyone know where I can find specs, dates, and numbers on the Seagulls that the BBs carried late war? << Try "Battleship and Cruiser Aircraft of the U.S.Navy 1910-1949" a great book!!!, by William T. Larkins, from Schiffer Books >> Can anyone refer me to pictures of said aircraft/ship combo and/or any descriptions of the operation? I'm assuming it was a turrett-mounted cat, so there are some interesting diorama possibilities suggested. << same book, "Battleship and Cruiser Aircraft of the U.S.Navy 1910-1914" Shiffer Books has text and photos of Nieuport 28's. Says they flew off ARIZONA, OAKLAHOMA, PENNSYLVANIA, NEVADA, TEXAS, IDAHO, and MISSISSIPPI. cheers, Bob Santos -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: Felix Bustelo Subject: Re: PE for Prinz Eugen Roberto, Gold Medal Models makes an excellent German Warship Set in 1/400 scale (for the Heller kits) and in 1/600 scale (for the Revell & Airfix kits). There is a review of the 1/600 set on my site, International Maritime Modeling. http://members.tripod.com/~Febus65/imm.htm Tom's Modelworks is planning to release a Prinz Eugen set (Tom, please chime in) in 1/400, 1/600 and I think in 1/700. I don't know when the release date is. Hope this helps, Felix Bustelo -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: Dave Baker Subject: NIEUPORT NEGATED For Ken who asked about USN Nieuport 28s, the information about their having been procured for catapult shots is entirely incorrect. The USN did acquire twelve in August 1919 from amongst a batch brought to the USA by the U.S. Army. Serials were A 5794 through A 5805. The Nieuports, plus Hanriot HD.2s and Sopwith Camels were flown off turret platforms in trials conducted in 1919 and, I think, into 1920 from the eight USN battleships equipped with the platforms; most of the trials were conducted at Guantanamo Bay. Data on #s, serials comes from UNITED STATES NAVY AIRCRAFT SINCE 1911, 1968 edition, Putnam, London. Absolutely superb photos of all USN catapult (and platform) aircraft plus authoritative data on operations, serials, etc., appears in the Schiffer-published book by William Davis that came out about two years ago. Sorry can't provide accurate title citation, as my copy is already en route to the new house. Best/Dave Baker -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: dhjonespsm@juno.com Subject: Re: Nieuport 28 CAT ops. >> Acquired a Blue Max 1/48 Nieuport 28 at our club auction, and browsing through some online sites, found a Nieuport site: under the Profile for the 28 was mention of the fact that the USN had a dozen or so for catapult >launch tests from USS Arizona. << I am sure there will be many responses for this one. The profile caption is in error. The Nieuprot 28 was operated from a flying off platform on top of the number three turret, not from a catapult. Platforms were installed on turrets two and three in 1920. These were in the British pattern, a permanent platform on the turret roof with erectable and dismountable supports and wooden ramp extended over the gun barrels. Pictures of this installation (including plans) can be found in Paul Stillwell's book, Battleship Arizona,. Sopwith 1-1/2 strutters were operated from turret two, Nieuport 28 from turret three. Daniel Jones Plastic Ship Modeler magazine -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: "Steven P. Allen" Subject: On Painting Camo I have painted several complex Ms schemes on various ships. I have NOT won any awards for them, but I'm satisfied. My rationale, is that the real ships were painted by hand, so the model ought to be, too. Masking, especially on a 1/700 model, would seem to be a nightmare, fraught with possibilities to screw up. Normal touch up work, weathering, and sometimes hurried and sloppy initial effort all show up on pics that I've seen of the real ships. Perfect straight edges and homogenous colors seem to me to be less accurate than what is generally produced by hand. My $.02 (inflation-adjusted) Speaking of camo, though, does anyone have or know of evidence that other 'phibs than the APDs ever recieved the green versions of Ms32? Steve Allen -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: KDur597268@aol.com Subject: Mid-war SOC >> Does anyone know what color the SOC-3 aircraft were around 1942-1943. << Definitely standard Blue-gray over light gray by 42-43. Ken Durling -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: KDur597268@aol.com Subject: Re: PE for Prinz Eugen >> I'm not sure of any other sets for the 1/720 Prinz Eugen. << There's also the GMM more - or -less generic "German Warship" set in 1/400, which comes with a section of instructions specific to Prinz Eugen and her class. This for the Heller kit. Ken Durling -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: "Peter Sketchley" Subject: Ark Royal and Hood Hi All, I have just purchased the new Revell HMS Ark Royal as fitted during the Gulf war. A quick look reveals it is a great improvement on the previous "Invincible" kit, although the funnel`s, deck details and boats are unchanged, the bow area is greatly improved and will save a lot of conversion work updating. HELP! I have been given the Tamiya 1/700 HMS Hood kit but without any assembly instructions. Does anyone on list have a spare copy or a scan they can send me, it would be gratly appreciated. Best Regards Peter Sketchley Cambridge UK Hi gang, I've scanned the Hood instruction sheet for Peter, but one of the UK SMMLies may want to send him a copy as well thru the mail. Regards, Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: "John Snyder" Subject: Re: Common Sense If the yards had to stock different colors of pre-mixed paint, your point would be well-taken. However, the USN blues and blue-grays were mixed using a white stock paint (5-U) and a specified amount of Blue Tinting Medium (5-BTM), in specified ratios. So there wouldn't have been a lack of, for instance, Navy Blue unless there was a grievous lack of 5-BTM. You mixed what you needed as you needed it. The real exception to this rule was the Asiatic Fleet, which had no 5-BTM on hand when Ships-2 Revision 1 was issued in September 1941, and they didn't receive any before the outbreak of hostilities. Admiral Hart, however, saw the handwriting on the wall and ordered his ships repainted in a blue-gray using what paint stocks could be purchased locally. This resulted in the so-called Cavite Blue worn by HOUSTON, MARBLEHEAD, and the Asiatic Fleet DDs, among others. Hart later provided a description of the color that could be referenced to known Munsell references, and that's what the Cavite Blue in our USN Set 1 is based on. John Snyder Snyder & Short Enterprises The Paint Guys -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: "John Snyder" Subject: Re: USS PENNSYLVANIA You know, buried somewhere on my bookshelves is a book (or two) with an oft reproduced color photo of PENNSYLVANIA in a floating drydock at a forward base in 1945. My memory says that she is indeed in Ms.21 wearing 5-N. With all due respect to the knowledgeable Mr. WRP, while the neutral grays began to replace the purple-blues in late 1944, the replacement did not occur overnight, and purple-blues remained in use through VJ day and beyond on some ships. Now, if I can only find that book and that photo.... John Snyder Snyder & Short Enterprises -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: "Paredes, Roberto" Subject: Hobby shop in Rio de Janeiro Hi, Anybody knows any hobby shop in Rio (Brazil)? Regards, Roberto. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: "Mike Leonard" Subject: Return to Midway I spotted the latest collaboration by Robert Ballard and Rick Archbold when I was in a bookstore the other day. Published by the National Geographic/Madison Press, "Return to Midway" (192 pages) is a chronicle of last year's visit to the scene of the pivotal battle, and is very much like the previous books they've done on deep sea explorations, such as "The Lost Ships of Guadalcanal" and "Exploring the Lusitania". This one features a number of period photographs of the men and ships that participated in the battle, graphics on how events unfolded, etc. Maritime artist Ken Marschall painted a few of his underwater interpretations of how the wreck of Yorktown looks today (for the most part remarkably well preserved) and there are several color photos of portions of the wreck. Loss of Hammann, Soryu, Kaga and other ships is covered in less detail. The books retails for $40 in the USA, $56 in Canada. Mike L Alexandria, VA USA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: WRPRESSINC@aol.com Subject: HMAS Canberra Am looking for pictures of the Canberra as she appeared throughout 1940 and 1941. Any help would be appreciated. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: Lisa and Bill Wiseman Subject: Colors Question I have a question on paint colors. I know where to find what ship had which camo pattern when. My problem is what colors were 5-N, 5-L, 5-O etc and how do they translate to modern model paints particularly the Tamiya Acrylics and the MM enamels. Is there somewhere (like a web site) or someone who would be able to point me in the appropriate direction? Modern US ships (my speciality) are easy. The boot camp adage applies "If it moves, salute it. If it doesn't, paint it haze gray". Thanks Doc Wiseman -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: "Victor Baca" Subject: Royal Canadian Navy color schemes-1950s Good mornin' I'm scratchbuilding a RCN escort ship as modified post-war from a Bangor Class minesweeper. She's the HMCS GRANBY (FSE 180) in 1955 RCN color scheme with dark hull and medium (?) gray superstructure. Are there any sources who may know what shade of grey (or maybe dark blue?) the RCN hulls were painted in this era? I wrote the Canadian Navy and they kindly sent a black and white shot advising that should suffice. But--if she was painted in anything other than gray such as dark blue, I would be beside myself after airbrushing and completing in the wrong color. The model is being made to 1/8"=1' scale using the official plans which are really beautifully drawn (originally to 1/4"=1' scale). I'd really like to do the model justice and get the scheme right. A good source for info on these ships is Ken Macpherson's book "Minesweepers Of The Royal Canadian Navy-1938-1945" He also wrote one on RCN frigates that's fantastic! Both printed byVanwell Publishing St. Catharines, Ontario. Thanks in advance, Victor Baca -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: Minadmiral@aol.com Subject: RN CV deck color Hi; Quick question. What color would WWII RN carrier decks be? Refer to Tamiya or Gunze Sangyo if you would. Thanks Chuck Duggie PS;is this kind of stuff in the archives? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: "Tom & Carolyn Harrison" Subject: Pennsylvania Radar Most of the books showing the Pennsylvania on Dec. 7th in the dry dock have used a touched photo with the CXAM1 radar removed. Example: Remembering Pearl Harbor, Page 40 radar removed and you can still see the white box where the radar edited out. East Wind Rain by Stan Cohen, Page 147 you can see the radar. Pearl Harbor 50th Anniversary Special Edition Page 151 again you can see the radar at the top of the foremast fighting top. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Gene Larson Subject: NRG Shop Notes updates The following Ship Modeler's Shop Notes on our web site have been updated: CONSTRUCTING AND OPERATING A ROPEWALK FOR SHIP MODEL BUILDERS This has two addenda, one on a modification to the machine and the other has a more detailed look at available materials for making rope. Rob Napier has some useful inputs. GLUES and ADHESIVES - Application to Model Building New comments include some excellent thoughts by Dana Wegner, Curator of Models for the USN. The shop note series is at the bottom of the home page. Regards, Gene Larson, Alexandria, Virginia mailto:genenrg@Naut-Res-Guild.org Nautical Research Guild, Inc. http://www.Naut-Res-Guild.org "A non-profit, tax exempt, charitable, educational organization with international membership, dedicated to maritime research and accurate ship model building." -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Jeff Herne" Subject: Trivia #7 I had to take an entire weekend to get this next question, I have obviously underestimated my adversaries... :-) The Chinese battleship CHEN YUAN was launched in 1882, her sister was the TING YUEN. CHEN YUAN was sunk at the Yalu battle and was raised and taken into Japanese service as CHIN YEN. Her origional armament was 2x 12" and 2x5.9" and 3x14" torpedos. In Japanese service her armament was 4x12", 4x6", 2x6#, 8x3# and no torpedoes. She displaced 7670t. full load and was scrapped in 1914. Correct responses were from: dhjonespsm@juno.com douglas.j.martin@email.msn.com sanartjam@aol.com sarup@intnet.mu YHASIO@aol.com raeplus@s-direktnet.de KHgold@wman.com minadmiral@aol.com ColinTroup@compuserve.com jjrule@idirect.com chuck1155@earthlink.net brian.selzer@bc.sympatico.ca The standings through 6 rounds: douglas.j.martin@email.msn.com - 16 points sarup@intnet.mu.com - 13 points sanartjam@aol.com - 13 points dhjonespsm@juno.com - 12 pts. raeplus@s-direktnet.de - 12 pts. YHSAIO@aol.com - 12 pts. richa5011@aol.com - 9 points KHgold@wman.com - 8 pts. technoinfidel@webtv.net - 8 pts. jjrule@idirect.com - 8 pts. ColinTroup@compuserve.com - 8pts. brianselzer@bc.sympatico.ca - 7 pts. minadmiral@aol.com - 7 pts. Christopher.Herron@PSS.Boeing.com - 5pt. jmalondon@home.com - 4pts. Geoff-smith@cwcom.net - 4pts. chuck1155@earthlink.net - 4 pts. cjmhughes@btinternet.com - 4pts. jdcorley@earthlink.net - 4pts. johnsnyder@macnexus.org - 4pts. volker.haeuser@main-rheiner.de - 4pts. jefcat@msn.com - 4pts. jecham3981@aol.com - 4pts. romoh@singular.gr - 4pts. jpb@skynet.be - 3pts. spallen@wavecomputers.net - 2pts. jowfx@cs.com - 2pts. john.sutherland@amcom.co.nz - 2pts. THenrys@aol.com - 2pts. mike.leonard@erols.com - 1pt. bbullock@thegrid.net - 1pt. Question #7: (off with the kid gloves) Potential 4 points: What vessel am I? During the Spanish American War I was requisitioned from the International Navigation Company for use as an armed merchant cruiser. In this capacity, I drove off the Spanish destroyer Terror at San Juan. Later, I served as a transport. I was returned to the International Navigation Company in 1898. I received some notoriety in 1908 when I collided with, and sank, a British cruiser in The Solent off south England. On April 28th, 1918, I capsized between Piers 60 and 61 on the North River in NY Harbor, and became one of the largest salvage operations undertaken during the WW1 years. What Vessel am I? Bonus #1: What company performed the salvage of this vessel? Bonus #2: Which British cruiser did I sink during the collision? Bonus #3: What company performed the salvage of the British cruiser? GOOD LUCK! email all replies to: mailto:jherne@hotmail.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: John Clements Subject: Message for John Collins I have been in contact with SMML member John Collins (Alpharetta, US) at TechnoInfidel@webtv.net but my latest message keeps bouncing back, and has done so for about a week. Could John please confirm his email address or if there has been any problem at his end. Thanks. John Clements -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: "Tom & Carolyn Harrison" Subject: New from Tom's Modelworks Set 742 1/700 Scale US CARRIER "Perforated" Catwalks with rails attached. $6.00 plus shipping. Check out our web site http://www.tomsmodelworks.com for information on our end of year holiday discount special and giveaways. More to follow. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for having SMML at your home, why not stop by our home at: http://www.smml.org.uk -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume