Subject SMML07/10/99VOL691 Date: Fri, 08 Oct 1999 00:12:39 +1000 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Dunkerque 2: MS-9 Paint Scheme 3: Catapult error mine 4: Casting Parts 5: Common Sense 6: HMAS Canberra 7: HMAS Canberra 8: I LEFT MY BOOK IN SAN FRANCISCO 9: Common sense 10: Re: On Painting Camo 11: Re: USS Pennsylvania 12: USS Midway Cougar 13: Re: BB aircraft & HMS Ark Royal question 14: USS Pennsylvania Colour Photo 15: BWN USS Massachusetts -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: New kits from Iron Shipwrights 2: Re: Colors Question/RN CV deck color 3: New from Tom's Modelworks - CORRECTION to notice in SMML690 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Alan Lindstrom" Subject: Dunkerque A while back a saw a rumor that one of the European resin makers was working on a 1/700 Dunkerque. Anyone heard/seen more about this? I believe the Dunkerque/Strasbourg, with the exception of the Arkansas, Renown, Revenge-class and the Russian ships, are about the last WW2 battleship classes not yet done in 1/700 (though some are OOP). I wish someone would do a nice Hipper-class cruiser though. Alan -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Doremus, Mark" Subject: MS-9 Paint Scheme I'm getting ready to finish an early war Gato sub. I understand that they were MS-9 black early in the war. Warship just lists black above the WL, flat black I assume. What about below the WL? One source mentioned gloss black, I think I have seen on this list that they were NOT anti-fouling red. So what is the correct color? TIA Mark Doremus Eden Prairie, MN where fall is making a last stand. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: KDur597268@aol.com Subject: Catapult error mine >> The profile caption is in error. The Nieuprot 28 was operated from a flying off platform on top of the number three turret, not from a catapult. << Sorry folks - The caption on the Neiuport page Profile simply says the N.28s were flown "off battleship turrets." The catapult interjection was mine, imagining something like the German turret-top cats. On consideration, I doubt a Neiuport would take the stress! and I have since obtained some photos of the platforms. Thanks for all the good info, and the leads, and I will try to be a little more careful with my words! Ken D -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: "Bishop, Paul" Subject: Casting Parts I am interested in fabricating some more parts for my Nichimo 1/200 Yamato that have been lost over the years - small AA turrets etc. I have read about using silicone sealant to form a mold then pouring bondo glazing putty in it to form the new part. I am after an easy cheap method and this seems to fill the bill. Has anyone tried this - how well does it work? Are there any other easy methods of fabricating your own parts? I would appreciate any comments/ideas. Thanks, Paul Bishop -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: "Russell M Smith" Subject: Common Sense One place that photo of the Pennsylvania is in Myron J. Smith's Book the Keystone Battlewagon p.24 definitely MS 21 with 5N. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: "Russell M Smith" Subject: HMAS CANBERRA The Naval Historical Society of Australia published a book by Alan Payne in 1991. I got mine from Pacific Front hobbies a few years ago. Bob Ballard's Book on Guadualcanal has a few good photos, note the single 4" guns still in place. The tape of his trip there has some good shots on it too. There is a photo that shows British style radar on the aft portion of the bridge. Hi, There's also Ross Gillet's book: Australian & New Zealand Warships 1914-45. this has some very nice shots of the Canberra. Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: "chenyangzhang" Subject: HMAS Canberra Hi WRPRESS Try the Australian wartime magazines, I saw several shots from the period you're interested in some weeks back in a second hand shop. However, I didn't buy them so I don't have the exact details. There were also photos in an official history Chris Langtree -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: Dave Baker Subject: I LEFT MY BOOK IN SAN FRANCISCO For those looking for a copy of Chuck Hansen's monograph about the SAN FRANCISCO, he has informed me that the entire stock has long since sold out and that used book dealers are your only recourse. On the other hand, one of all of our favorite kit manufacturer-cum-naval publishers, according to Chuck, is planning to release a brand new SAN FRANCISCO book later this year, and Chuck has loaned his large supply of SF photos for the project. Best/Dave -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: Lisa and Bill Wiseman Subject: Common sense My 2 cents... Civilian "Yard Birds" and Navy Engineering types mixed colors by adding specified amounts of 5-BTM into 5-U white base paint to get the various colors specified by the BuShips mandates. Did all of the 5-BTM come from the same lot and supplier? Did all of the 5-U white base come from the same lot and supplier? Probably not. Did the same man measure the 5-BTM with the same measuring device every time on every ship? Probably not. Let's not even discuss "Monday" or "Friday" vs "Wednesday" paint jobs. We won't comment on rushing the job because some "Four Striper" trying to get his Flag was breathing down their neck or the newsreel at the weekend matinee was particularly frightening and we need to get the ships on the line asap. The Ships -2 camo scheme called for "...all vertical surfaces 'this' color with decks and horizontal surfaces 'that' color......and following an 'imaginary' line along the water line just below the curve of the bow etc." Doesn't mention surfaces angled between 90 and 180 degrees, or whose imagination? What about how paint reacts to various metals or primers? Sounds like plenty of room for variation. Colors mixed by hand dock-side will always vary. (Home Depot can't even get a computer to match two cans of paint exactly.) Colors applied by human beings by hand will always vary. (We were given the "Navy Way" painting instructions in boot camp. When you got to your ship, some senior BM started telling you "a better way".) We chased a case of "running rust" on the Suribachi (AE-21) for eighteen months while Med deployed. We had paint from two different suppliers and four lots put on by three different deck gangs. How homogenous could the paint job be? Today, we rely on fading B&W photos, some more than 50 years old. We have old BuShips documents that were sent out, to local commands, not via fax or modem, but through an already taxed postal service or messengers with no guarantee of delivery date or implementation date. We all know that everybody did exactly what they were told to do all the time. (Don't we?) My point is this: US Navy vessels were painted to specs that may or may not have been on hand the day the ship was painted. They may or may not have been painted by a crew with time to do it carefully. They may or may not have been painted with paint mixed to precise color ratios. The paint may or may not have been from one lot or supplier. The criteria for evaluation of a paint or camo job should be does it "Look like" the appropriate color scheme. That's why most of us build these things. To get a miniature that "looks like" the real thing. Standing around with deck of paint chips and dismissing a well built model because the 5-N is a shade off or this stripe is a half a strake plate too far aft is a little ridiculous. I hope, to most of us, this is an art form and not just a competitive sport. We need to stop being what the Model RR guys call "Bolt counters" and remember the joy of a young boy, on a holiday morning, opening that first Revell or Renwall or Aurora kit and staring intently at all that plastic and just hoping to make it look like the picture on the box. Fair winds and following seas, Doc Wiseman -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: ironship@usit.net (Jon Warneke) Subject: Re: On Painting Camo Hi Steve >> Speaking of camo, though, does anyone have or know of evidence that other 'phibs than the APDs ever recieved the green versions of Ms32? << I have photos of LST's in these patterns, as well as some LCI's. Also, in the Schieffer book "U.S. Naval Vesels", a reprint of ONI-222US, there is a good broadside shot of the USS Vestal in what should be a green scheme (it's a black and white photo. Jon Warneke -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: ironship@usit.net (Jon Warneke) Subject: Re: USS Pennsylvania Hi John, >> You know, buried somewhere on my bookshelves is a book (or two) with an oft reproduced color photo of PENNSYLVANIA in a floating drydock at a forward base in 1945. My memory says that she is indeed in Ms.21 wearing 5-N. Now, if I can only find that book and that photo.... << Well, two of the books are "Keystone Battlewagon" by Myron Smith, and "Battleships" by Anthony Preston. However, the reproduction in Preston's book is printed inversely (look at the bow numbers), or at least I think it's in that one. Pennsylvania is definitely in a overall blue scheme. As for the exact date of the photo, that's a mystery but it is definitely prior to January 1945. This is due to the large armored rangefinder in front of the signal bridge. This was replaced with a twin 40mm mount at Hunters Point in January 1945. More than likely, this photo was taken at Guam somewhere between August 1944 and December 1944. Jon Warneke -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: "Chris Neel" Subject: USS Midway Cougar I was browsing around for web for some information on the USS Midway and found the following site: http://www-personal.umich.edu/~buzznau/navair.html Has many great photos of the Carrier throughout her career.... the photo that most caught my attention was this AWESOME shot of anF9F Cougar from Vulture's Row: http://www-personal.umich.edu/~buzznau/50s-003.jpg I would love to model this plane! Does anyone know of a 1/48 scale kit for the F9F? So far, I haven't been able to see one listed anywhere....... A little off topic, but thought y'all would like to see the Midway sight..... Thanks! cn -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: CBNJBB62@aol.com Subject: Re: BB aircraft & HMS Ark Royal question The only US BB that carried SOC's at the end of the war was the Masseschuetts. All otherrs were carring the OS2U Kingfisher and the SC-1 Seahawks. I have a question about the Revell HMS ARK ROYAL is the kit waterline or full hull. Craig Bennett Hi Craig, If you're referring to the WW2 Ark Royal with the Tribal DD in 1/720, it's waterline with the option of adding the hull & screws. If you're referring to the new Ark Royal "Harrier Carrier", AFAIK, it's full hull with no waterline. You'll have to do it yourself. Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: Robert & Rose Brown Subject: USS Pennsylvania Colour Photo I have a copy of that colour photo of Pennsylvania referred to by John Synder. It's in the old Leeward Publications Ship's Data volume on USS Arizona. Does anyone require a scan? Rob -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: "Morley, James (London)" Subject: BWN USS Massachusetts I've been dying to see the article on the BWN 1/350 USS Massachusetts build-up. Is it ever going on Warship? Pleeeeease can it be made available elsewhere (if Warship has stopped updating). I've got the kit unbuilt and I need inspiration (and help!) "Aim low, reach your goals, avoid disappointment" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: ironship@usit.net (Jon Warneke) Subject: New kits from Iron Shipwrights Hi Everyone, Here are the latest releases from Iron Shipwrights. The following are now available: 4-062 U.S. YO Fuel Oil Barge 1943-Today $55.00 Can also be built as YOG or YW 4-067 U.S. LCS(L) Landing Craft Support (Large) $40.00 4-068 U.S. LCI(L) 1-350 class Landing Craft Infantry (Large) $40.00 4-069 U.S. LCI(L) 350-1098 cl. Landing Craft Infantry (Large) $40.00 4-070 U.S.S. O'Flaherty DE-340 John C. Butler cl. DE $105.00 4-079 U.S. Landing Craft set $95.00 includes one each 4-067, 4-068, 4-069 Available mid-November: 4-071 U.S. LST 1 class Landing Ship, Tank w/vehicles $165.00 Available mid-December: 4-063 Halifax class Canadian Patrol Frigate $165.00 To order, send check or money order to: Commander Series Models, Inc. 551 Wegman Rd. Rochester, NY 14624 888-IRONSHIP (toll free) Stay tuned to this slot for more releases in the next months. Jon Warneke Commander Series Models, Inc. I am Elmer J. Fudd, millionaire. I own a mansion and a yacht! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "John Snyder" Subject: Re: Colors Question/RN CV deck color Need to know what 5-N, 5-O, 5-H, etc. really looked like? You need our US Navy Set 1 paint chips, which contains all those colors and more. You can use them as masters to match using your own favorite brand of model paint, 'cause there aren't any paints out there that are a match. RN CV deck colors? Which CV, and at what time? Some were painted in solid colors, some had camo patterns on the flight decks. Once you decide which ship and how she was painted, then you'll need our Royal Navy Set 1 paint chips to mix and match, as above. John Snyder Snyder & Short Enterprises The Paint Guys (Off to a 4-day reunion with my BAINBRIDGE shipmates) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "Tom & Carolyn Harrison" Subject: New from Tom's Modelworks - CORRECTION to notice in SMML690 Set 742 1/700 Scale US CARRIER "Perforated" Catwalks with rails attached. is $10.00 plus shipping. NOT $6.00 Check out our web site http://www.tomsmodelworks.com for information on our end of year holiday discount special and giveaways. More to follow. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for having SMML at your home, why not stop by our home at: http://www.smml.org.uk -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume