Subject SMML08/10/99VOL692 Date: Sat, 09 Oct 1999 00:42:06 +1000 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: BB aircraft & HMS Ark Royal question 2: Re: USS Midway Cougar 3: BWN USS Massachusetts 4: RCN colours circa 1955 5: Re: Common sense 6: Re: Dunkerque 7: Re: USS Midway Cougar 8: Re: Ark Royal 9: Re: RCN Colors in the 50's 10: Casting parts 11: Re: Pennsylvania camouflage/ trivia question 12: USS Missouri 1950's 13: Re: HMAS Canberra 14: USS Indianapolis Camo (MS32/7D) 15: Re: MS-9 Paint Scheme 16: Oi and Kitakami 17: CV-1, Langley 18: Re: USS Midway Cougar 19: Royal Canadian Navy color schemes-1950s 20: Re: casting parts 21: Re: 1/700 Dunkerque 22: Re: Paint Schemes 23: Useful tip -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: Cottage Industry Models, Ltd. 2: Warship Model Specials at East Coast Miniatures 3: AUCTION PROGRESS.. EDGAR MARCH'S BRITISH DESTROYERS 4: APMA meeting -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "John Sheridan" Subject: Re: BB aircraft & HMS Ark Royal question >> The only US BB that carried SOC's at the end of the war was the Masseschuetts. All otherrs were carring the OS2U Kingfisher and the SC-1 Seahawks. << From the department of corrections department: The USS Massachusetts (BB59) carried OS2U Kingfishers throughout her entire wartime career. John Sheridan Visit my USN Ship Camo site at: http://home.earthlink.net/~jrsheridan/ I am not a Member of the Lumber Cartel (tinlc) and I am not Unit #631 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: Rod Dauteuil Subject: Re: USS Midway Cougar Revell made one in 1/48 scale, which was reissued in the early 90's at part of the SSP program. You can still find them at IPMS shows. It's a very basic kit, but may satisfy your appetite! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "John Sheridan" Subject: BWN USS Massachusetts >> I've been dying to see the article on the BWN 1/350 USS Massachusetts build-up. Is it ever going on Warship? Pleeeeease can it be made available elsewhere (if Warship has stopped updating). I've got the kit unbuilt and I need inspiration (and help!) << I have not yet done the article on Massachusetts but I did send the photos of the completed model up to WARSHIP for publication back at the end of August. And yes, I will be finishing the article very soon and WARSHIP will get it for publication. Unfortunately I was at the grocery store yesterday and saw Rob Mackie's photo on the side of a milk carton with the word "missing" above the photo. No doubt he's off building shipmodels with either Elvis, Jimmy Hoffa or those pesky Space Aliens. If you have any questions about the kit or building it, please feel free to contact me. John Sheridan What I do to Spammers: http://microscale.com/images/N2.jpg I am not a Member of the Lumber Cartel (tinlc) and I am not Unit #631 Humans who dwell in silicon domociles should not hurl igneous metamorphosed projectiles. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: Tom Dean Subject: RCN colours circa 1955 Victor: Your first thoughts are correct. The hull would be a medium dark grey, the upper works would be a light grey, the pendant numbers would be white, as would the break water around the top of the open bridge, the decks medium grey and the semtex walkways dark grey. I cannot locate my colour chart at the moment(home improvement time-everything missing), but if you contact me off list I will get some humbrol #'s at the hobby shop that should do the trick. The books you cited have several good examples of ships in this scheme. Naval auxilliaries of this time had black hulls, and a blue/grey upper works so you were wise to check as they look similar in black and white pictures. Tom Dean Hamilton, Ontario -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: "Fernando, Yohan" Subject: Re: Common sense My sentiments exactly! I use the 'real' colors as guides, but purposefully lighten/darken them between models so that two ships next to each other with the same 'real' colors look very slightly different in shade. Makes for a more interesting and realistic presentation in my mind. I think the paint chips are a great resource as a starting point, but no one should think that they should be confined to matching those colors exactly in all cases. The world is full of exceptions and during wartime I'm sure there were more than usual. Yohan Fernando -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: "Jeffrey Roberts" Subject: Re: Dunkerque I have seen a Samek kit of the Dunkerque listed in the NNT Modell + Buch catalog. Haven't seen the actual kit itself but other kits from that manufacturer have been fairly nice. Perhaps Pacific Front Hobbies carries the Dunkerque too? Also, I believe there is a Kombrig or Modelkrak kit of one of the Russian Gangut class dreadnoughts as well. As far as all battleships being covered in 1/700 scale, aside from the obscure items (The South American 'A-B-C' dreadnoughts, , French Courbet & Paris, the incomplete H.M.S. Lion, the 1940 projected Dutch battlecruisers), what about H.M.S. Vanguard? Has there been another kit of her besides the old 1/450 scale Hasegawa? Jeffrey Roberts North Hollywood, California -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: "Doremus, Mark" Subject: Re: USS Midway Cougar Rats! A real airplane question and I can't help. I checked Hobbyweb and Great Models Webstore and found that F9F Panthers (straight wing) exist from Hasegawa and Matchbox in 1/72, but their 1/48 Cousins from AMT/ERTL and Mono are OOP. Hasegawa did a 1/72 Cougar but it's listed as OOP. Detail and Scale #16 "F9F Cougar" may have more mfg.'s listed. But, it's looking like you'll have to check dealers and collectors. Mark Doremus Eden Prairie, MN -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: Mike.Dunn@dresdner-bank.com Subject: Re: Ark Royal Craig wrote :- >> I have a question about the Revell HMS ARK ROYAL is the kit waterline or full hull. << & Shane continued :- >> If you're referring to the WW2 Ark Royal with the Tribal DD in 1/720, it's waterline with the option of adding the hull & screws. If you're referring to the new Ark Royal "Harrier Carrier", AFAIK, it's full hull with no waterline. You'll have to do it yourself. << Well, she's the Gulf War variant - & yes, she's full-hull. Quite a nice kit - if I get the chance, I'll do a little review of her & a comparison vs the 'Vince. Mike -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: Darren Scannell Subject: Re: RCN Colors in the 50's Hi Victor, I queried a friend at who looks after the models at the Maritime Command Museum in Halifax and his reply was: 'The colours used by the RCN during the early fifties were Hull extra dark sea grey and light sea grey. Humbrel has these colours.' Just to ad my 2 cents, the model of the St. Laurent in the museum has a hull color that is very similar to modern deck grey. (not gray :) Regards, Darren Scannell -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: "Kenneth H. Goldman" Subject: Casting parts I have had excellent results using silicone tub sealer for making small molds and then Bondo glazing putty to cast small parts such as 1:350 hatch covers and other surface details. A thin coating of dishwashing liquid suffices for a mold release agent. The hardened Bondo, however, is brittle and must be handled with care until it is attached to your model. Also, since it is solvent based, shrinkage and drying time are factors to consider in larger castings. For those, and for more dimensional parts, 5-minute Epoxy achieves better results. To do this, I suggest adding a little white flour to the epoxy to make it opaque. This makes the resulting part easier to inspect and respond better to any required touch-up shaping. I have used this method to cast 1:48 body parts. This method works best, however, to duplicate parts that can be cast in a small, one-piece mold that has a relatively large opening for introducing the viscous casting material. Ken Goldman THE WALRUS AND THE CARPENTER http://www.wman.com/~khgold/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: WRPRESSINC@aol.com Subject: Re: Pennsylvania camouflage/ trivia question As far as I can tell from the various postings the Pennsylvania was painted In Navy Blue in 1944, but there appears to be NO evidence of being painted in Navy Blue in 1945. Am I correct in this assumption? If I am then my question remains unanswered. A trivia question only to be answered by the trivia quiz master: "What warship in World War Two had RADICALLY DIFFERENT hull lines port and starboard?" This question must be answered only by J Herne, and without reference to any other person. You have two days to provide the answer. If you win, then you get a free bottle of Scotch. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: "John Sheridan" Subject: USS Missouri 1950's Can anyone out in SMML'ie-land tell me what radars were carried on the USS Missouri during the early 1950's ? And, more importantly: Do any of the Photo-etch makes carry these radars ? John Sheridan What I do to Spammers: http://microscale.com/images/N2.jpg I am not a Member of the Lumber Cartel (tinlc) and I am not Unit #631 Humans who dwell in silicon domociles should not hurl igneous metamorphosed projectiles. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: "Ian MacCorquodale" Subject: Re: HMAS Canberra Hi Folks, I noticed a string on SMML, Re: HMAS Canberra, if anyone needs information, a friend of mine is a survivor of the Battle at Savo Island and has a website, you can visit Mac's site at: http://members.tripod.com/the_porthole/ I have just posted newer pics of the USS Truman and San Jacinto, as well as new section on Canadian Navy Auxilliaries, and HMCS Anticosti, stop by for a visit. Cheers, Ian http://www.geocities.com/macrachael/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: "FCR" Subject: USS Indianapolis Camo (MS32/7D) Hello everyone I am starting to build my USS Indianapolis at 1/700 and I would like to build it during the Saipan landings in June 1944. The ship carries the MS32/7D camo of the US Navy but unfortunately all the pictures that I have found yet of that time shows me only the ship from the portside. Does anyone know of the camo scheme of starboardside of the ship or any picture of it. Thank you to all Filipe Ramires Portugal -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: Ives100@aol.com Subject: Re: MS-9 Paint Scheme >> I'm getting ready to finish an early war Gato sub. I understand that they were MS-9 black early in the war. Warship just lists black above the WL, flat black I assume. What about below the WL? One source mentioned gloss black, I think I have seen on this list that they were NOT anti-fouling red. So what is the correct color? << Mark- That is correct; they were NOT anti-foul red, the paint was an antifoul black formulation. You early fleet boat should be all black. The S-boats did have a red antifoul, but the Fleet Subs were black. Later gray (grey?) shades above the waterline (MS-32) began in mid 44 or so. From my research, it looks like it stayed black below the waterline until the late 1950s. Nautilus was launched as black below the WL. I believe the switch to red antifoul may have been made with one of the Skipjacks..... Tom -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: "John Sutherland" Subject: Oi and Kitakami Hi all, Help please from the Japanese WWII experts! Recently received the Pitroad/Skywave kits of Oi and Kitakami. On examination the kits are completely identical. However - Warships of the Imperial Japanese Navy - page 107 - shows the Oi as having a completely different layout for her boats - they seem to be along the centre line and inboard of the torpedoes. The stern superstructure is also different with AA guns shown between it and the deck edge. The diagram for the Kitakami is as per the kit. First question - whose got it right - Jentschura, Jung & Mickel or Pitroad? Second question - the book mention's Oi's 1943 fit as 4 x 5in DP and 36 x 25mm. Anyone one seen a layout of this? Third Question - was Oi still in this configuration at time of sinking in July 1944? Fourth Question - Has anyone solved the shielded / unshielded debate in terms of the torpedo mounts? Pitroad seem uncertain and the book has a bob each way showing Kitakami's shielded and Oi's unshielded. Many thanks. John Sutherland on a sunny 18 deg C Wellington afternoon. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: "msyoung" Subject: CV-1, Langley Can anyone tell me where to find a set of plans for Langley as a full decked carrier. Mike Young Springfield, MO Hi Mike, Fellow SMMLie Bob Santos did a scratchbuilt 1/700 Langley in FSM March 1995. There's a nice set of drawings in the article, to get you started. Regards, Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: "Sven E Dorsey" Subject: Re: USS Midway Cougar Revell made a F9-F I think it was 1\40 Kit # 4431 . I believe it was rereleased under their special kits? S Dorsey -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: "Ron Hillsden" Subject: Royal Canadian Navy color schemes-1950s Are there any sources who may know what shade of grey (or maybe dark blue?) the RCN hulls were painted in this era? According to Peter Hodges 'Royal Navy Warship Camouflage 1939-1945' p42 "....and perhaps the only ships retaining the dark hull and light upper-works scheme, evolved in 1944, were the Canadian destroyers and cruisers, who made this their own standard colour for a number of years." That would make the tones G10 and G20. Thomas Lynch in 'Canada's Corvettes' says G10= Humbrol #27 Very Dark Gray and G20 = 110 drops of Humbrol #30 in a tin of matte white to make mid green-gray. If you get to Victoria, The Chief's and PO's Mess has several excellent destroyer models in this paint scheme, and I believe the Navy's Museum and the Maritime Museum of BC do as well. These models were built by apprentices in Dockyard, so I am sure the paint is VERY authentic! Ron Hillsden, Victoria BC Canada My boat club: http://members.home.net/vmss/ Flags: http://members.home.net/ron-hillsden/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: Minadmiral@aol.com Subject: Re: casting parts >> I have read about using silicone sealant to form a mold then pouring bondo glazing putty in it to form the new part. << Hi; Don`t use the silicone sealent. Resins will stick to it. Contact Webster Enterprises at 805-949-0397. He`s in Lancaster, Calif. Near Edwards AFB. He mail orders. He used to sell small kit swith enough RTV and casting resin to do small jobs like you want. Was in the $20 range, if I recall correctly. I got some about 3 years ago. Tell him I referred you, he`ll remember what I got. Chuck Duggie -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 21) From: Derek Wakefield Subject: Re: 1/700 Dunkerque >> I believe the Dunkerque/Strasbourg, with the exception of the Arkansas, Renown, Revenge-class and the Russian ships, are about the last WW2 battleship classes not yet done in 1/700 (though some are OOP). I wish someone would do a nice Hipper-class cruiser though. << Alan, I don't think I've seen a 1/700 Dunquerque, but I believe I saw a 1/700 Repulse on hobbyweb the other night. I was rummaging through the list of available ship kits, and thats one that stood out in my mind. _|_o_|_ Derek "Tiger" (/\)akefield /---(_](o)[_)---\ iscandar@chatter.com o oo O oo o http://www.iscandar-66.org -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 22) From: Derek Wakefield Subject: Re: Paint Schemes >> The criteria for evaluation of a paint or camo job should be does it "Look like" the appropriate color scheme. That's why most of us build these things. To get a miniature that "looks like" the real thing. Standing around with deck of paint chips and dismissing a well built model because the 5-N is a shade off or this stripe is a half a strake plate too far aft is a little ridiculous. << I agree wholeheartedly with your last statement doc. There's also another thing to take into consideration. In "Building Resin Ships" (FSM Nov 94), Rusty White brought up an interesting point about "painting to scale". To quote him on this... "Painting to Scale? That's right. Color changes with distance: The farther away a color is, the lighter it becomes. I call this the scale factor. When you view a 1/350 scale model you're seeing it as if you were 700 to 1,000 feet away." The article goes on to explain how he lightens the paint to achive this, but I don't want to quote that entire part of the article. Suffice it to say though, if someone did this (for the sake of accuracy), the colors aren't going to match up with the paint chips. Therefore, if a show judge uses chips to dictate proper coloring, this legitimate modeling technique would more than likely result in the builder loosing points for accuracy. I've complained a lot over the years about c.1941 Arizona models which were supposed to have Ms 1 schemes, but in fact were closer to having Ms 21 schemes (or pre-war light gray schemes). One of these is in the Gallery of the Feb 98 ish of FSM. After finally finding a color photo of the Nevada at PH, I was able to determine that the dark gray in Ms 1 is extremely dark (almost black). OTOH, if you were to paint to scale, the dark gray would be somewhat lighter than it appears up close and personal. I couldn't deny the aforementioned model was very well built, but the color scheme did trip my nit-pick button. However, I keep asking myself, how many folks are likely to notice that fact. Unless you're a warship enthusist who has knowledge of color schemes of that ship during that period...doubtful. Dasvidanya! _|_o_|_ Derek "Tiger" (/\)akefield /---(.](o)[.)---\ iscandar2@chatter.com o oo O oo o http://www.iscandar-66.org -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 23) From: "brian lawrence fawcett" Subject: Useful tip Hi guys, I found a way to apply superglue ( Cyanoacrylate ) along seams and joints. Having used the old trick with the eye of a needle for a few years, I wanted to be able to apply more than just a spot of glue. It occurred to me that perhaps capillary action could be used to my advantage, taking a wooden cocktail stick I split one end of it with a very sharp scalpel blade. The split should be about 15mm (5/8ths) long, and if you twist the blade in the split slightly so when you remove the blade the two points stay apart about 1mm ( 3/64ths). It is now ready to use, putting a little thin superglue on a scrap piece of plastic card just dip the split end in the glue and you will see the split fills with the glue. Run the stick along the seam ( it works best for me if the cocktail stick is at an angle of about 20 degrees to the seam and you stroke along where you want the glue to go ). The harder you press the stick against the seam the more glue flows out ( by pressing harder you are pushing the split points closer together ). Having found this technique, I thought a little more about it and suddenly it hit me. Draughtsman's bow pens work on the same principle. I have now tried a bow pen and it works very well, you can adjust the glue flow by opening or closing the points and it can be cleaned with a quick scrape with a knife blade or dipping into de-bonder and wipe on a cloth. I hope this is of help to some of you, if any of the above is not clear e-mail me off list and I will and sort any problems out. Sorry it is so long winded but it is hard to describe something that I could show you in 15 seconds. Brian. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "William@Cottage Industry Models" Subject: Cottage Industry Models, Ltd. Dear Fellow Ship Guys: We produce resin model kits of Civil War era warships and early submarines. The following is a list of items that may be of interest to you: CSS HUNLEY 1/32nd scale non-cutaway, pre-discovery version $ 89.95 + $7.50 S&H. CSS DAVID 1/32nd scale full cutaway w/ interior about 27 1/2" long $129.95 + $8.50 S&H. CSS HUNLEY: Revised Cutaway Edition, 1/32nd scale Fully cutaway with interior. A really neat kit that is THE definitive hunley kit on the market. $ 110.95 + $ 7.50 S&H. David Bushnell's TURTLE: Sub of the American Revolution 1/32nd scale fully cutaway with a cool interior. a small kit that looks a bit like a Faberge' Egg. About 3" tall. $ 79.95 + $5.00 S&H. Union ironclad USS KEOKUK 1/96th scale. partiallly cutaway kit about 22" long. $199.95 + 10.00 S&H. Coming in about 2 weeks: the Confederate ironclad CSS PALMETTO STATE, 1/96th scale, about 24" long. Cutaway casemate section with interior. Should be a really cool kit, and the first on the market of its kind in this scale. $ Call or write for price as it has not yet been determined. Probably in the $200 range. Also large caliber siege guns: in the "Engines of Siege" collection. All guns are in 1/32nd scale and are priced at $ 49.95 + $ 5.00 S&H. they are: 13" seacoast Mortar with a naval style turntable. 8" Parrott gun on field expediant carriage the "Swamp Angel" 11" Dahlgren on Naval Swivel carriage. This one has all the CORRECT features that other similar kits do not. 7" Brooke on Marsilly carriage. Available in about 3-4 weeks. should be really cool addition to the line up. These items are available now and ready to be shipped via fast service. Cottage Industry Models, Ltd. is NOT affiliated with any other company or web address of similar names. Interested parties may obtain a color cataog or 3.5 disc of our products for $ 4.00, or via e-mail for free at: Cottage Industry Models,Ltd. 1632-B Ashley River Road Charleston, SC 29407 Phone (843) 769-2352 after 6pm EST e-mail mailto:wjb@awod.com Beware of imitations!! Get the best!!! Thank You! William J. Blackmore Owner -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: Michael Morse Subject: Warship Model Specials at East Coast Miniatures The following models are on special at East Coast Miniatures: Neptun 1/1250 WWII Warships: 1004a Gneisenau...$72, 1316 Lexington...$99, 1317 Saratoga...$99, 1133 Sussex...$42, 1201 Yamato...$85, 1301b Indiana...$65, 1333c San Francisco...$44, 1102 Rodney...$65 Plastic Warships: Tamiya 1/700 Yamato...New Mold...list $33.00...ECM price...$26.50 Tamiya 1/700 Shinano...New Mold...list $36.00...ECM price...$27.50 Tamiya 1/350 Bismarck...list $59.00...ECM price...$46.50 Tamiya 1/350 Yamato...list $59.00...ECM price...$46.50 Visa, Mastercard, and Discover accepted. The Fall '99 catalogue listing all of our plastic models, 1/1250 ships, and naval wargaming miniatures is free for the asking. Website: Almost ready! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "Caroline Carter" Subject: AUCTION PROGRESS.. EDGAR MARCH'S BRITISH DESTROYERS Just to inform folks that the auction for the afore-mentioned is well underway, and stands at 125.00 Pounds. If anyone would like to increase this bid, please forward your bids to me, Caroline at mailto:xdt22@dial.pipex.com Cheers! Caroline WEM http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/white.ensign.models White Ensign Models, for a fine range of photoetched brass for 1/600, 1/700 and 1/350 scale kits, and THE finest warship kits and upgrades in the world! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: Shane Subject: APMA meeting Hi gang, Here's an open invitation to anyone visiting Sydney on Saturday. You are welcome to attend the monthly meeting of APMA(details at the APMA site - see URL below). Regards, Shane APMA VP http://www.tac.com.au/~sljenkins/apma.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for having SMML at your home, why not stop by our home at: http://www.smml.org.uk -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume