Subject: SMML09/10/99VOL693 Date: Sat, 09 Oct 1999 23:32:11 +1000 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: USS Indianapolis Camo (MS32/7D) 2: Useful Tip 3: Re: Pennsylvania camouflage/ trivia question 4: Yamato Deck Color? 5: Garibaldi heavy cruiser (1st W.W.) 6: Re: Casting parts 7: Re: USS Indianapolis Camo (MS32/7D) 8: Re: BB aircraft 9: WR Press Trivia 10: Re: American Scout again 11: 20th Destroyer Flotilla 12: Warship status 13: Dandalo-Cabot 14: Revell Cougar 15: Re: Ms 9 16: DOCUMENTATION & USS Langley 17: Re: USS Missouri 1950s 18: Revell Hawaiian Pilot Freighter 19: Resin Materials -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: Trivia #8 2: Signal Codes & Flags -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "John Sheridan" Subject: USS Indianapolis Camo (MS32/7D) >> I am starting to build my USS Indianapolis at 1/700 and I would like to build it during the Saipan landings in June 1944. The ship carries the MS32/7D camo of the US Navy but unfortunately all the pictures that I have found yet of that time shows me only the ship from the portside. Does anyone know of the camo scheme of starboardside of the ship or any picture of it. << You need to find yourself a copy of USN Portland Class Heavy Cruiser USS Indianapolis by Classic Warships publishing. The URL is: http://www.classicwarships.simplenet.com/books.htm The book is THE source for the Indy and does carry drawings for the MS 32/7d scheme. John Sheridan What I do to Spammers: http://microscale.com/images/N2.jpg I am not a Member of the Lumber Cartel (tinlc) and I am not Unit #631 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Doremus, Mark" Subject: Useful Tip Brian, I've used a ruling pen to apply liquid glue and Tenax for a couple of years. I've been afraid to try CA because I was afraid that it would glue the tips together instead. (Like the way it sticks my fingers together.) Is it really trouble free? Mark Doremus 70 deg at night in October in sub Arctic Minnesota???? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "John Sheridan" Subject: Re: Pennsylvania camouflage/ trivia question >> As far as I can tell from the various postings the Pennsylvania was painted In Navy Blue in 1944, but there appears to be NO evidence of being painted in Navy Blue in 1945. << We have seen a color photo of her in late 1944 in MS 21. It is likely that she stayed in MS 21 till the end of the war unless they repainted her during her March 1945 overhaul. If she did stay in MS 21 during 1945, it is a good guess she was still in MS 21 when she was used as a target ship during Operation Crossroads in 1946. I will see if I can find a photo of her at the target site to confirm because this would be good evidence as to whether she was painted with the grays or not. As for switching from Blue to Gray, The USN was still painting ships in MS 21 at the end of WWII. I have a color photo of the USS Midway as commissioned in late 1945 in MS 21 Navy Blue. John Sheridan What I do to Spammers: http://microscale.com/images/N2.jpg I am not a Member of the Lumber Cartel (tinlc) and I am not Unit #631 Humans who dwell in silicon domociles should not hurl igneous metamorphosed projectiles. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: "Bishop, Paul" Subject: Yamato Deck Color? Hellooooooo Again, I'm working on the 1/200 Nichimo model of the Yamato. In Janusz Skulski's book "Yamato" he says that the deck is unpainted 'hinoki' cypress wood with a grey tint. Does anyone know what color that would be? I have been using POLYS water based paints on it. Thanks in advance. Paul Bishop -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: "Pietro Caltabiano" Subject: Garibaldi heavy cruiser (1st W.W.) I have a 1/150 wood/resin/metal kit of italian 1st W.W. Garibaldi (produced as Japanese "Kasuga" from Canav) and I'm looking for the only book I know exists about this cruiser: Modelist Constructor Series 3/1995 (it's written in russian), but I didn't happen to find it. Can anyone help me? also a scanned copy would be useful. Thanks Pietro Caltabiano -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: Casting parts This has probably been mentioned, but you can get a complete rig to cast your own parts from Ace Resin. It costs only about $20.00 to $25.00. It come with enough resin to do quite a few small parts like gun turrets. There is enough RTV rubber for a number of molds as well depending how big the part is you're casting. Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. http://www.okclive.com/flagship/ "Yeah I want Cheesy Poofs" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: USS Indianapolis Camo (MS32/7D) I'm building the 1/350 Classic Warships Indianapolis for a client. They include all the camouflage painting patterns the ship used during her career. Contact Steve Wiper at CW and he may send it to you. If he has no problem with it, I can scan it and send it to you if our files are compatible. Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. http://www.okclive.com/flagship/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: CBNJBB62@aol.com Subject: Re: BB aircraft Dear John: I have rechecked my resources and it seems that you might be right. I was using a book called fantail fighters By Jerry Scutts and in appendix table for seaplane assignments for US warships it listed the Massachusetts as having 3 0s2u King fishers and then 3 SOC. Sea gulls I think it's a case of double checking all sources. Sincerely Craig Bennett -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: "Jeff Herne" Subject: WR Press Trivia I can just picture the WR Press War Room as they scurry about looking for questions to stump me with...cigar smoke wafting through the room, ships' plans laying about, books and photos stacked up everywhere, perpetual coffee, occasional scotch...ahh...the life! Since I really don't have the time to research this question, I'm going off the top of my head and fielding my best guess...and since I'm at the office, I'm without access to my library...so... What WW2 warship had radically different hull lines port to starboard? Well, conventional wisdom would say it was an aircraft carrier, and since no purpose built carriers were built asymetrically that I know of, I would probably think a converted carrier. So... ...the Italian aircraft carrier Aquila, launched in 1926 as the cruise ship Roma. Converted to a carrier, she was fitted with a second enormous underwater keel which was filled with cement. Basic engineering would lead me to believe it was asymetrical. She never saw combat and was broken up in 1951. But, chances are, WR Press has found some abstract vessel welded together from left over parts in some shipyard...good thing I'm easing up on the Scotch... Regards, Your Befuddled Trivia Quizmaster -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: Denis & Marilyn Campbell Subject: Re: American Scout again Skip asked for copies of the rigging plsn for the Sterling kit of American Scout a few days ago. I scanned this and sent it to him attached to e-mail but it bounced "user unknown". Skip, if you e-mail me off list, and send me your exact e-mail address, I will send it again Denis Campbell Avon MA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: "chenyangzhang" Subject: 20th Destroyer Flotilla Hi Tim Further information, the funnel bands for the 20th Destroyer Flotilla were 2 on the rear funnel. Colour was red. Chris Langtree -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: Wirguy@aol.com Subject: Warship status BWN Mass./Warship page. Has warship quit publishing? I really look forward to it each month,and its been over two months now. I hope it comes back soon. Thanks Larry Lewicki -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: Marc Flake Subject: Dandalo-Cabot SMMLers: Just got back from Brownsville, Texas. On our trip down to South Padre Island, I did a double double take as we passed an Independence class CVL in the ship channel parallelling the road. My guess is this is the Cabot-Dandalo that was recently auctioned and bought by a scrapping yard which out-bid the restorers who were also bidding. I'll have to say it was quite exciting to see this old ship. Because the wife and the kids were in a hurry to get to the beach I only managed a slow drive-by. That, plus the fact that the ship channel is quite a ways off the road and she was angled-in--bow-on, made it look like she is still has a straight flight deck. If so, I feel rather privileged to have seen an actual straight-decked carrier. She's listing to port a bit. Couldn't help but feel saddened by the fact that she won't become a museum. She's an important part of our history. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: Marc Flake Subject: Revell Cougar This is a VERY basic kit. You can see right through the intakes and out the tail pipe. It's smaller than 1/48. I know because I was going to buy some aftermarket PE and/or resin to spruce up the non-existent cockpit and compared it to the Monogram Panther. The Panther's cockpit would never fit nto the Revell kit. Although I still have it, I doubt I'll ever build it. I plan on waiting for someone to come out with a decent one. Marc Flake Tarrant County, Texas, home of the Texas Rangers, where owner Tom Hicks is re-thinking his decision to pass on Roger Clemens last winter. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: "Frank and Carol Berger" Subject: Re: Ms 9 I'm getting started on a Nautilus 1/350 USS Nautilus that is also in MS 9. BTW the kit is gorgeous! According to The Floating Drydock US NAvy Camouflage, Vol. 1, Ms 9 was anti- fouling black below the waterline. How this is different from the black above the waterline, I'm not sure. Frank -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: Dave Baker Subject: DOCUMENTATION & USS Langley A couple of dedicated SMML members have had a disagreement over the past couple of days as to the type of floatplane carried by the battleship MASSACHUSETTS. First one said that she carried SOCs--and provided no documentation. Then the other said KINGFISHERs--and provided no documentation. I have yet to see any SMML member demonstrate omniscient knowledge of all things naval, and it would certainly help to establish the authority of those who aspire to it to provide the source of their information when they make an unequivocal statement. In this particular instance, the documented and clearly authoritative book on U.S.Navy shipboard catapult aircraft by William H. Davis would certainly supply the documented information, based on USN records that he assiduously consulted and reproduced. At any rate, unless you were aboard the MAMIE throughout her WW II career, you probably shouldn't say what she was or was not carrying without citing some authoritative source. Grumph! The drawing of the LANGLEY as a full-deck carrier in Norman Friedman's U.S. NAVY AIRCRAFT CARRIER DESIGN AND DEVELOPMENT was done (by me) from official plans of the ship--as as seaplane tender; using a large number of available photos, plus a simplified plan of the ship published shortly after her recommissioning as a carrier, I reconstructed the missing portions of the flight deck and its supporting structure. Norman and I could not find a set of plans for LANGLEY as a carrier, but as that was quite a few years ago and well before my skills at using the National Archives (such as they are) were developed, there may very well be a set at College Park that we did not discover. My drawing might do for a start for a small-scale model, but the main deck (and its aircraft hangar hatches, which were raised above the deck level) might prove a bit of a challenge. Perhaps Bob Santos can tell us what plans he used to construct his very convincing model of the ship? Best/Dave Baker -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: Derek Wakefield Subject: Re: USS Missouri 1950s >> Can anyone out in SMML'ie-land tell me what radars were carried on the USS Missouri during the early 1950's? << According to Breyer's "Battleships and Battlecruisers 1905-1970".... From 1951-1955, all of the Iowa's carried an AN/SPS-10 forward. From 55-57, they all carried a AN/SPS-12 forward in addition to the AN/SPS-10. Aft gets a bit trickier. From what I can tell, from 47-51 she shipped an SP, and from 1950 onward she also shipped an AN/SPS-8A. From the drawings in this book, it appears though that the SP was replaced by the AN/SPS-8A. This was mounted on a new cantilefer tripod mast at the after edge of the after funnel. Other interesting notes from Freidman's US BATTLESHIPS... All 20mm guns removed by October 1950. The ship went into reserve in 8/55 and retained all twenty of her 40mm mounts. A photo of her in the Bremerton Pacific Reserve Fleet in the 1965-66 edition of "Ships and Planes of the US Fleet" bears this out. The Missouri was the last US BB to operate catapult aircraft (2 SC-1s) during her 48 Med cruise. Friedman gives the impression they weren't removed as part of the Korean reactivation refits the other three underwent. OTOH, a photo of the Mo in both '50 and '52 (in Dunlin & Garzke's "Battleships - US Battleships in WWII" shows the cataputs to have been removed. Breyer states they shipped two cats and four ac up to 50/51. These were replaced by two helicopters. The type isn't specified. One pic of the IA off Korea shows her with a H-5 (I believe) and I've seen others with HSS/UH-19s. Those may be later photos though. None had a true helipad painted on their stern though like the NJ did in '68. Most of the pics show a number of boats stored there in a rather haphazard arrangement. According to Friedman, they had to retain the floatplane cranes because none of the ships were equipped with cranes amidships to hoist and lower boats. This was rectified on IA and WI during their 55/56 refits with two amidship king boom type lifts. Another descrepancy is that Breyer claims all four ships were refitted with the new Mk-56 gun control in the 50's, but Friedman states the Missouri had already been mothballed by the time it was installed aboard the Iowa and Wisconsin. SCB-47E was the designation for the plan to refit the ships with 3"/50, but it was never funded. It called for "sixteen mounts, none of the turret tops, and no high guns abeam the second funnel. The latter were eliminated as weight compensation for the new Mk-56 directors nearby. In peacetime the two main deck mounts near the No. 3 turret would be landed but their wring and foundations retained." If you're going for accuracy, forget it, but it would make an interesting "What if" concept idea. That's all I can find that might be of use in that regard. >> Do any of the Photo-etch makes carry these radars? << [shrug]! Dasvidanya! _|_o_|_ Derek "Tiger" (/\)akefield /---(.](o)[.)---\ iscandar2@chatter.com o oo O oo o http://www.iscandar-66.org -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: Loren Perry Subject: Revell Hawaiian Pilot Freighter I have Revell's old freighter kit, the S.S. Doctor Lykes of the Lykes Lines, and would like to redecorate it in the original Revell scheme of the S.S. Hawaiian Pilot of the Matson Navigation Co. (I can't find an original Matson Lines version of the Revell kit.) To do this, I'll likely have to make new decals on an ALPS printer. But my questions are: 1. What were the basic colors of the Hawaiian Pilot as she appeared in the 1950 Matson scheme - deck color, funnel colors, hull, deck fittings, etc.? Can anyone suggest any Model Master paints (or another brand) that offer a good match for the funnel and deck colors? 2. Was San Francisco the home port for the Hawaiian Pilot? 3. Were there any other relevant markings that I could duplicate as decals? I would greatly appreciate any pointers. Thanks! Loren Perry -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: "GARY CHU" Subject: Resin Materials Being a relatively new modeler of resin-ships; Is it still true that resin dust is inherently dangerous and caution (mask/filters) is still needed when sanding? Unrelatedly, what type of wood is used to make the wood base and blocks to display finished models? Thx for help! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Jeff Herne" Subject: Trivia #8 NOTE: john.sutherland@amcom.co.nz squeezed in the correct answer for Trivia #7, but it did not show up in the results. Added to this round. HA!!! I am pleased to say that I got everybody except Mr. Plastic Ship Modeler, Dan Jones. The Vessel was the steamer St. Paul., she rammed and sank the British cruiser Gladiator. Later on, she capsized between Pier 60 and 61 in NY Harbor. She was salvaged by the Merrit Wrecking Company. HMS Gladiator was salvaged by the Liverpool Salvage Association under the direction of Captain Frederick Young. Correct responses were from: 4 points: dhjonespsm@juno.com 3 points: Geoff-Smith@cwcom.net 2 points: khgold@wman.com YHSAIO@aol.com jmalondon@home.com jjrule@idirect.com douglas.j.martin@email.msn.com brianselzer@bc.sympatico.ca sarup@intnet.mu.com colin.troup@compuserve.com richa5011@aol.com 1 point: jaci@lehigh.edu Standings through 7 rounds: douglas.j.martin@email.msn.com - 18 points dhjonespsm@juno.com - 16 pts. sarup@intnet.mu.com - 15 points sanartjam@aol.com - 15 points YHSAIO@aol.com - 14 pts. raeplus@s-direktnet.de - 12 pts richa5011@aol.com - 11 points KHgold@wman.com - 10 pts. jjrule@idirect.com - 10 pts. ColinTroup@compuserve.com – 10 pts. brianselzer@bc.sympatico.ca - 9 pts. technoinfidel@webtv.net - 8 pts. minadmiral@aol.com - 7 pts. Geoff-smith@cwcom.net – 7 pts. john.sutherland@amcom.co.nz - 6pts. jmalondon@home.com – 6 pts. Christopher.Herron@PSS.Boeing.com - 5pt. chuck1155@earthlink.net - 4 pts. cjmhughes@btinternet.com - 4pts. jdcorley@earthlink.net - 4pts. johnsnyder@macnexus.org - 4pts. volker.haeuser@main-rheiner.de - 4pts. jefcat@msn.com - 4pts. jecham3981@aol.com - 4pts. romoh@singular.gr - 4pts. jpb@skynet.be - 3pts. spallen@wavecomputers.net - 2pts. jowfx@cs.com - 2pts. THenrys@aol.com - 2pts. mike.leonard@erols.com - 1pt. bbullock@thegrid.net - 1pt. jaci@Lehigh.edu – 1 pt. Question #8: In 1943, a United States destroyer took a near miss in the Med that flooded 2 of her machinery compartments and caused severe leaking in other spaces. She was towed into Palermo Harbor, where her topside weight was removed for a tow to Malta. During her stay at Palermo, she received visits from U.S. General George S. Patton and British General Bernard Montgomery. What was the name of the ship? (2 points) And why did she receive visits from Allied Brass? (2 points) BIG TIME BONUS: Name the 2 ships that assisted this Destroyer into Palermo. (2 points each) As always, email replies to: mailto:jherne@hotmail.com GOOD LUCK !!! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: John Sheridan Subject: Signal Codes & Flags FYI, As Don Pruel mentioned last week, He sent me the Signal Flag Codes to be put on my Camouflage website. Well, They are now ready for your use at: http://home.earthlink.net/~jrsheridan/index.html I have added the flag codes for the following class of USN warships: Carriers Light Carriers Battleships Large Cruisers Heavy Cruisers Destroyers (All Classes) I am still working on the following: Escort Carriers Submarines Destroyer Escorts Transports Assault Ships Miscellaneous ships I have even gone so far as to add a section on signal flags and their meanings; complete with graphics! Since there are 45 pages of codes, it going to take a while to get them all onto the website. If you cannot find your code, contact me directly and I will see if it is in the database. This database is as of July 1944, so ships sunk early in the war or launched late in the war may not appear on the tables. Enjoy it and please let me know what you think! John Sheridan @ Microscale Decals http://www.microscale.com If I'm talking Decals, then i'm talking for Microscale, Otherwise I am speaking for myself. What I do to Spammers: http://microscale.com/images/N2.jpg I am not a Member of the Lumber Cartel (tinlc) and I am not Unit #631 Last last place on earth I would look for the Lumber Cartel(tm) is http://come.to/the.lumber.cartel -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for having SMML at your home, why not stop by our home at: http://www.smml.org.uk -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume