Subject SMML11/10/99VOL695 Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 00:44:35 +1000 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: BB aircraft 2: Re: Help me 3: H M S COSSACK 4: Re: Oi & Kitakami 5: USS Minneapolis/San Francisco Ms. 8? 6: IJN Oi & Kitakami Torpedo Tubes 7: Airfix HMS Ajax 8: USS Honolulu and Savannah 9: 1/700 Brooklyn -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: Beware of Viking Models! 2: NEW ICM KITS IN 1/350 3: New Tom's Modelworks 1/700 Release 4: TAMIYA 1/700 SHINANO -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: John Sheridan Subject: Re: BB aircraft From: James Corley >> In fact Mass had 1 OS2U-3 & 1 OS2N-1. The last SOC aboard any BB is listed as November 1940 with TEXAS, NEW YORK & ARKANSAS having SOC-3 & SON-1 mixed aboard, all in the Atlantic Fleet, and NEVADA (2 SOC-3 & 3 OS2U-1) and TENNESSEE (3 SOC-3 & 2 OS2U-1) in the Pacific Fleet. The planes were still found aboard several Pacific Fleet cruisers in Sept 45, but no Atlantic fleet cruisers except the AUGUSTA & RALEIGH, which were unassigned at the time. << James, What was the spotting differences between the OS2U-3 and the OS2N-1?!?!? (Yes, yes, I know.......and the book on USN scout planes is on my short list to get a copy of) John Sheridan What I do to Spammers: http://microscale.com/images/N2.jpg I am not a Member of the Lumber Cartel (tinlc) and I am not Unit #631 Last last place on earth I would look for the Lumber Cartel(tm) is http://come.to/the.lumber.cartel -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Caroline Carter" Subject: NEW ICM KITS IN 1/350 Great news on the 1/350 Scale front for ship modellers. We have been notified that the following are scheduled for production from this company, ALL in 1/350 Scale: HMS Nelson British BB Knjaz Suvorov 1905 Russian BB IJN Takao heavy cruiser Slava 1914 Russian BB in addition to the previously-announced Konig, Grosser Kurfurst and Hood kits. It seems that the first shipment of Konigs SHOULD be in the UK by November/December, with the Grosser Kurfurst here in the first part of 1999. However, we STILL have no details on price. Will keep you all posted if any other news materialises. On the WEM front, Dave has now finished the 1/350 HMS Mary Rose (1916 destroyer that fought at Jutland), and we are just awaiting the casting run before shipping everyone their kits. Thanks! Caroline http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/white.ensign.models White Ensign Models -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: Ives100@aol.com Subject: Re: Help me >> Subject: Help me! Report please, how to organizine a model production from the resin? What components and technologies? My site http://tok.severodvinsk.ru/subm.htm. Thank you! Boris, Severodvinsk (Russia) << I would suggest you post this over on the SubCommittee website; we have several people familiar with the technology (Ralph Ratcliffe comes to mind, he makes molds of masters for small submarine models). Our website is: http://www.wolfsong.com/SubCommittee/ BTW, your web address doesn't work Tom Dougherty -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: WRPRESSINC@aol.com Subject: H M S COSSACK I cannot give you the Humbrol paint reference, but I believe that the ship was painted in overall medium grey for a period in late 1940 and into 1941. I have found no photos of her in this time frame and the references for her colour come from 'old hands'. Her fit in the 1941 period included four single 2pdr pom poms. The two 0.5" quad mountings were not removed, and WHY anybody would want to make a model of Cossack (in a wartime fit) beats me. SO DRAB.If you want the Humbrol reference as for peacetime appearence, I can't help you there either, sorry. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: Dboykap@aol.com Subject: Re: Oi & Kitakami Adding my nickel, I would concur with Michael's responses to John's question. Lacroix & Wells "Japanese Cruisers of the Pacific War" is easily the most authoritative English language resource available to date, and it draws heavily on Japanese source material. PP. 212 - 215 discusses in detail the conversion plans and timelines, supplanted with line drawings, that support the version depicted by Kitakami in the Jentschura book. Pitroad/ Skywave has followed this configuration as well. Changes to the AA fit notwithstanding, the biggest change to the Oi & Kitakami in the midwar period was the landing of four of the aft quad TT mounts as part of their conversion to fast transports in Sept. '42 at Yokosuka (per Lacroix & Wells). This was done at the behest of the Naval General Staff as a response to the lack of fast transports for reinforcement operations in the Solomons arena. Additional mods included the fitting of DC launching rails and 18 DCs, the embarkation of two 14m (dai-hatsu) barges stowed on the upper deck formerly occupied by TT mounts, and fitting two triple 25mm mounts aft (doesn't say exactly where). Again, additional AA aside, this is most likely the configuration of the Oi at the time of her loss on 7/19/44. There is no definitive evidence yet available on the shielded vs. unshielded debate though I concur with those favoring shielded mounts. L & W cite shielded tubes. However, in thinking about it, there is one possible explanation for the discrepancy: though originally planned, material shortages led to the Oi being fitted with unshielded mounts. There is ample precedence for this possibility. In 1937-38, the Naval General Staff originally specified three units for conversion to torpedo cruisers (Kiso was also earmarked). Each was to be fitted with four twin Type 89 12.7cm HA mounts, four sets of twin 25mm AA mounts and eleven (one mounted on the centerline aft), not ten, quad TT mounts replacing the original armament fit. The limited capacity of Japanese industrial capacity to meet these goals became apparent by 10/38 when it was decided to drop Kiso from the program. By the summer of '41, when these ships entered Maizuru and Sasebo for conversion, the fit had been scaled back to the final version. As an aside, the shortage of 12.7cm HA mounts was the same that delayed the fitting of these type mounts to the reconstructed CAs Takao and Atago until early 1942. Just food for thought. Dan Kaplan, NYC (where a subway series is now more than a glimmer. Go Yankees! Go Mets!) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: SteveWiper@aol.com Subject: USS Minneapolis/San Francisco Ms. 8? I think I agree with John on the Dull Black. The photos in my book on "Minnie" make the dark colors look like Dark Gray 5-D, but as John states, it is more than likely Dull Black and badly faded. I have found no photo evidence of "Frisco" in the same pattern in my nearly finished book on that ship. I have also spoken with one crew member who really seems to have a great memory and does not think that she was painted in that pattern. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: SteveWiper@aol.com Subject: IJN Oi & Kitakami Torpedo Tubes After quite a few beers and much self deliberation and consultation I have come to the conclusion that Kitakami was completed with the shielded tubes first and Oi was built later, without them, to save weight. That is why I have reworked and detailed the Skywave tubes and released a set of 10 shielded tubes for $8.00. If you were to use the Skywave plastic ones, you would have to buy 3 sets of the Jap. detail sets at up to $17.00 ea. and they are not as detailed as my set. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: Stuart Robottom Subject: Airfix HMS Ajax Hello all. In a local store I have seen an Airfix 1:600 kit of the Ajax. Does anyone know the quality of the model? This one comes with three paints included. Also, has anyone tried to convert it into a Modified Leander? If so, are there any hints? I am thinking about the conversion and it looks like being quite a task. Regards, Stuart Robottom robottom@deakin.edu.au http://www.deakin.edu.au/~robottom/ Hi Stuart, The Ajax kit is at least 25 years old. I had one as a kid. So taking that into consideration it's not bad, but will need a bit of work. I have the kit here & it's fairly basic, but can't comment on the accuracy as yet. The May 1977 issue of Airfix Magazine has an excellant article on converting the Ajax to the Aussie Cruisers. One which I intend to attempt soon for an APMA article, unless a 1/700 kit comes out first ;-))). Regards, Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: Timothy Dike Subject: USS Honolulu and Savannah >> 1) Does anyone know of any good websites with decent wartime pics of the USS Honolulu CL-48 << http://www.navsource.org/Archives/CA/cl48.htm >> 2) [Opinions]: IS has a 1/350 scale Nashville and CW is coming out with a 1/350 Brooklyn. Which one of these would be the better choice to build both a model of Honolulu and the Savannah. << How about one of each! >> 3) Alternately, has anyone put out a 1/700 Brooklyn that could be used as an alternative to the 1/350th scale kits (I would prefer the latter, but my wallet prefers the former). << Corsair Armada did a 1/700 USS Honolulu (Phoenix) in her 41-42 trim, and the former Jim Shirley Productions did the Honolulu in her 43 trim. >> FTR, I know that neither kit can be used to build the Savannah (post Salerno reconstruction) out of the box, and it will require a good deal of scratch building and aftermarket parts. Given this fact, this is something I'm more or less "pondering the notion of" at this point. << That would make an interesting conversion article, if you get brave and do it, please keep us informed. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: "James Kloek" jakloek@kodak.com Subject: 1/700 Brooklyn Corsair Armada has a very nice 1/700 Brooklyn, sold as the Phoenix/Honolulu. I've built it, and with the Tom's brass set it makes up into a very nice model. Recommended. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Beware of Viking Models! I want to warn the list about doing business with Viking Models or Joplin FX Designs. We (Flagship Models Inc.) had a written agreement to share profits 50/50 (with Viking) of our Close In Weapon System kit. My end of the deal (which I fulfilled in advance of kit production) was to design the photo etch details for the 1/700 USS Texas kit and the 1/350 version as well. Flagship Models would retain the copyrights to both sets. The agreement was to trade dollar for dollar for casting and set up of the kit for PE design fees. Viking sold 78 kits (I can prove that) and I was never given one dime. They delivered only 10 kits to me for about $1800.00 in design fees (FAR short of dollar for dollar). As per our written agreement, they wrote me three post dated checks for my share of the profits to be cashed about 30 days after delivery to the distributors (I have all the paper work to prove what I say). Unfortunately, they never let me cash the checks. After MANY attempts to contact them, I sent the checks to my bank (at MY expense) for collection, but Viking closed the account (I HAVE THE CHECKS). THEY JUST KEPT MY SHARE OF THE PROFITS. After 3 months of NO communication of ANY kind, I was forced to retain an attorney (AT MY EXPENSE) to file suit for copyright infringement of both detail sets and the CIWS kit (which I have registered copyrights to). One day before the suit was to be filed they called me. We made an agreement that would allow Viking unlimited access to the Texas sets. Before this agreement would go into effect, they had to deliver 30 full boxed kits and return all my master patterns to the CIWS kit along with the molds (I would give up all the profits kept by Viking). They agreed. After we spoke, I decided to go the extra mile (again) to allow them to make things right between us. I extended the law suit filing date three times (two more extra miles) before I figured out I was being strung along and lied to. My attorney suggested before we file, that I make the trip from Edmond, OK unannounced, to Cisco, TX (about 1000 miles round trip) and retrieve my master patterns. Once in Cisco, I had two police officers accompany me to make sure things didn't get out of hand. Vikings secretary and Dan Joplin told me the stuff was mailed and showed me the receipts as proof. Why they didn't call and tell me is anyone's guess. While I was there, I noticed on the desk a number of photo etch parts taped to a cardboard sheet. These parts were MINE! They were cut from MY 1/350 Texas detail set. I have two police officers as witnesses to this and I have their names in my files! Obviously, the parts were to be copied then incorporated into a new detail set with my copyright and logo removed! Viking apparently doesn't want to pay someone to redesign the two Texas sets (it would cost thousands) for their kits. Remember, all they had to do (as per our agreement) was send me 30 complete, boxed kits, my masters and molds and they would have unlimited access to both sets. It would cost at the most $300.00 in resin! Go figure. Remember, I also would give up my share of the profits Viking just kept (talk about going the extra mile). They chose not to do the right (easy and cheap) thing. After examining the shipment of kits that came a couple of days later, I noticed that all they sent me was factory seconds. All of the parts were poorly cast and obviously rejected. None were boxed (as per our agreement) and over half of the parts were just junk and unsellable. There was only enough sellable parts to make 14 kits, well short of our 30 BOXED kits agreement. They also didn't return all my master patterns. The result is, there will be no shared copyrights to either Texas detail sets. FLAGSHIP MODELS INC. OWNS REGISTERED EXCLUSIVE COPYRIGHTS TO THE DETAIL SETS IN BOTH THE 1/700 AND 1/350 SCALE TEXAS KITS. I have notified their photo etcher and informed them of this problem. They agree with me and have suspended production of the Texas detail sets until they hear from me. I also notified them of the cut out parts I saw while at Viking's office. I have no explanation why Viking is doing this. I have given them many opportunities to work this out far cheaper than our original written agreement. I'm sure they're the nicest guys around, but Viking Models is violating my federal copyright if they sell any Texas kits with my detail set or pirated parts in it. Once they pay someone to redesign the sets, I obviously will have no problem with them. From all I have seen they are trying to copy my copyrighted parts. I have a program on my computer that can detect only MY copyrighted parts. I am the only one who has this program. It was custom designed for me by my brother who works for the military. I can instantly detect copies of Flagships work even from a scan or photo of the parts, so proving copyright infringement is no problem. I'm not suggesting not doing business with them. All their other kits are legitimate, fine offerings as far as I know. But buying the Texas kits in either scale is (at this point) condoning copyright infringement. IF ANY OF YOU COME ACROSS A NEW/700 OR/350 TEXAS DETAIL SET WITHOUT FLAGSHIP'S NAME AND COPYRIGHT ON IT, PLEASE LET ME KNOW! Sorry for rambling, but I thought the list should know. I ask you do the right thing and not condone this crap. This isn't hearsay. I CAN PROVE EVERY WORD. Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. http://www.okclive.com/flagship/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Tom & Carolyn Harrison" Subject: New Tom's Modelworks 1/700 Release 1/700 Tom's Modelworks Release: Set #743 IJN Carrier "Zuiho" detailing set. $10.00 plus 1.50 shipping Check out or Web site http://www.tomsmodelworks.com for end of year brass discounts and giveaways. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "Caroline Carter" Subject: TAMIYA 1/700 SHINANO Hi Guys, Well, it finally arrived this morning, and is quite superb! 1/700 SHINANO IJN CARRIER 22.50 ($30.64) (RETOOLED). Also, a load of Aoshima gear..... We only have about a dozen Shinanos, so first come, first served! Orders to me, Caroline.. Many thanks!! For plastic and resin ship kits, etched brass, books, colour chips, videos,and Plastic Ship Modeller, just click here! http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/white.ensign.models/plist1.htm UPDATED THE AFORE-MENTIONED LAST NIGHT.. PLEASE CALL BY! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for having SMML at your home, why not stop by our home at: http://www.smml.org.uk -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume