Subject: SMML21/10/99VOL705 Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 00:08:24 +1000 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: On Solder, Landing Craft, and APDs 2: Shipboard aviation - carraige/cart for WWII BB-based seaplane? 3: Re: 1/700 barrels 4: YMS/BYMS 5: Beware Roll Models 6: Ship prefixes and IJN facts 7: Most common USN name 8: Brass rigging 9: Re: Onslow gun footplate colour 10: Re: Onslow footplate colour 11: Re: Most named US Navy Ship 12: USS Cowpens (CG-63) 13: HMAS Perth 14: Recommended Reading 15: Ticos 16: Ship name prefixes 17: Re: Ticonderoga Class CG FRAMs? 18: Pennant Numbers on Subs -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: U.K. IPMS NATIONALS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Steven P. Allen" Subject: On Solder, Landing Craft, and APDs Most solders don't have lead in them any more, so lead may be a non-issue in that respect. Just be sure to buy a lead-less one. Does anyone know of a source for 1/48 scale LCVPs? I'm toying with the idea of building an R/C APD, and I'm debating whether to go 1/96 or 1/48 (on a Scale Shipyard DE hull). Speaking of APDs, I'm still trying to talk myself into using the Green Camo on my 1/250 USS Lloyd. The only color "pic" I have on the green camo scheme is a *four*-color rendering found in the Squadron/Signal "DEs in Action." Three of the colors are obviously greens; the fourth seems more like a tan or khaki. The very useful summaries of the various Measures on the Warship site list the green schemes as being *three*-color schemes (or am I mis-interpreting the data?). My questions are: what is that fourth color? Has anyone investigated what the best approximations are among Testors FS colors? Any recommendations appreciated. Thanks, Steve Allen -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: Joseph Poutre Subject: Shipboard aviation - carraige/cart for WWII BB-based seaplane? Hi all, I know I'm pushing the boundaries of ship modelling, but, I need a carraige or cart of some sort on which to place a 1/72 Curtiss SC-1 Seahawk, from the battleship New Jersey. Does any company make such an item, or if not, does anyone know where I can find good photos or a scale drawing? Thanks! Joe Trustee and co-webmaster, Battleship New Jersey Historical Museum Society http://www.bb62museum.org/ Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: Joseph Poutre Subject: Re: 1/700 barrels An option: instead of going to the trouble of trying to hollow out the ends, instead add a small cap as a tampion. It's easier than trying to center a tiny drill bit, and can add a little bit of color in some cases. The USS New Jersey's tampions, for example, on the 16" guns are black w/ a gold 5-pointed star. I personally have purchased set of replacement barrels in brass from Pacific Front. I can find out the manufacturer, if desired. Enjoy yourself! Joe Trustee and co-webmaster, Battleship New Jersey Historical Museum Society http://www.bb62museum.org/ Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: "Victor Baca" Subject: YMS/BYMS With all the YMS talk in SMML lately, I went to check my storage locker yesterday in search of a YMS kit and found nothing, but there was a nice little 1/400 scale Heller kit of the French coastal sweeper MERCURE (M765) built from the USN plans for the MSC class of coastal sweepers. Like the British TONs, she finished her years as a fisheries patrol ship with a "P" hull designator, minus the sweeping gear. I started on a hull for the MSC ship last year in 1/48th using the builder's plans, and I can state that Heller hit it right on the nail with their MERCURE (# 1098) kit. These ships were built in the U.S. and abroad under the MDAP mutual assistance plan as the direct descendants of the YMS ships and plans are readily available from Photomarine Archives, the Whatcom Museum in Bellingham, WA and the Floating Drydock. Speaking of plans, you really should know about the Whatcom Museum if you're into anything along the lines of minesweepers, smaller naval craft and ships of the U.S. Army. The Whatcom Museum Of History And Art in Bellingham, WA has an outstanding collection of the life's work of Harold Hanson, a Pacific Northwest naval architect who did quite a bit of work for the Coast Guard, Navy and Army. Check out their web site at: http://www.cob.org and click on the City Of Bellingham's museum listing. Go to the "collections" site and click on the H.C. Hanson listing for thumbnail plans of representative ships in the collection. They have original plans for the early YMS ships with the 2 stacks and round bridges and BYMS ships showing in the list as well. In addition, there are plans for the MSC coastal M/S ships (similar to Heller's MERCURE kit) as well as plans for an MSO, all in 1/48th scale. You'll also find several army ships here and smaller USN vessels such as the 110' wooden YTBs of WWII. I spend 1 day a week doing volunteer work to help them archive this huge collection of good stuff. Drop me a note via email if you'd like anything done in the way of basic research, especially in the closed collection. BTW, there was also a kit in 1/400th put out by AGA models in Poland of the Russian T-43 type minesweeper, the ORP MORS. It's molded in a manly shade of pink styrene with a fair amount of flash. Detail is sparse, but with a little craftsmanship, it would make into a nice model. These ships are decidedly more graceful looking then the blocky YMS/BYMS and MSC ships with a raised focs'le and a nifty sheerline. The model's full hull is cutaway at the bow's forefoot, making her an icegoing ship. I'd love to get ahold of plans for her--Jacek K. are you out there? I should have never checked out that storage locker though, now I've got 13 small scale 1/700th ship models in my shop waiting for winter to arrive... Happy Minehunting Victor Baca -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: Tom Detweiler Subject: Beware Roll Models Hello fellow-SMMlies: Regrettably, I must put out yet another warning about a company whose failure to respond to customers indicates trouble. The company is ROLL MODELS, in Minnesota. They bought up Battle Hobbies a while back and WERE a good source for Schiffer books, until now. They have a website (I won't give it out) which had a fine catalog of goodies. Very conveniently and suspiciously, they no longer have an email address so customers can write to them with problems! I ordered a bunch of Schiffer books from them almost two months ago, and gave someone there mycredit card number, but they never delivered. No charge ever came in either, but a phone call brought nothing but lame excuses: lost the order, we can't find it, you'll just have to reorder, etc. ad nauseum, and the female at the other end was somewhat rude about it all. She would not apologize and was clearly uninterested in finding out what had happened, so I let the order drop and will probably not order from them again. SMMLies, and othe modelers, DON'T put up with this crap, from ANY model source! WE DON'T HAVE TO! There is too much good competition out there to put up with the likes of Roll Models, Viking, and some of the others who are not service oriented. When will these people LEARN, for God's sake, that they are in a SERVICE industry, and that the customers whose orders they lose, make excuses to, insult, ignore or fail to deliver to, are going to let others know and put them out of business? I used to have fair dealings with Roll Models, but it looks like they are going the way of far too many small businesses, who seem to hate the customers who keep them alive. What an intolerable situation! In keeping with this, I propose that whenever we run across one of these we issue a BUYER ALERT, not just to the SMML website, but broadband to all the other modeling websites as well. Maybe then the shop keepers will get the point and cease their abysmal business practices. Anybody know another good service-oriented source of Schiffer books? Tom D in Rocklin CA -- where the air is so thick with smoke from fires it's like smoking a pack a day! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: "Fernando, Yohan" Subject: Ship prefixes and IJN facts I would think that 'IJN' as the prefix for Imperial Japanese Navy ships would have only been used by English-speaking nations, so doesn't really count as a real prefix. I don't think the Japanese themselves would have referred to 'IJN Yamato' or whatnot. Actually, I don't think the concept of initials even exists in the Japanese language as their different writing systems are either ideogram based (kanji) or syllables (hiragana and katakana) rather than sound-based letters. If they had prefixes to their ships' names, they would probably have been spoken or spelled out in their entirety- something like 'His Imperial Majesty's Battleship Yamato'. Does anyone know if they did have some sort of established prefix title? On a side note, IJN destroyers and other small ships (torpedo boats, escorts, etc) were not considered 'true' warships in the same sense as cruisers, battleships and carriers and thus did not carry the chrysanthemum seal on their bows. Ever wonder if this unique differentiation between destroyers and the larger ships might have subconciously contributed to the way the IJN command used its destroyers? They seemed more willing to commit them to risky situations then the precious true 'warships'. Just a thought. Yohan Fernando -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: Jeff J Herne Subject: Most common USN name Ok, I've had it!!!! 10 private emails and one posting about this.... Read!!! "FROM THIS THREAD" This implies that only those ships mentioned above are under consideration... FYI, USS Cushing was named for Cmdr. William Barker Cushing, a Civil War participant, NOT for a Spanish American War participant!!! His bio can be found here: http://pages.prodigy.net/shop99er/cushing/wbcush.htm Read !!!! BTW, as a member of the USS Cushing Association, dare I say that this very thought crossed my mind before I posted the question?? Grandfather served aboard DD-797 during WW2, and my Warship article on correcting the Lindbergh 'Blue Devil' Fletcher clearly illustrates this. And while I'm ranting (it's been a rough day), Rusty, the reason I don't like 2 piece hulls is because I'm lazy, plain and simple... :-) From this point forward, annoying the quizmaster will result in tougher questions... Desperately seeking Kevlar and Tylenol, Jeff -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: "Chris Drage" Subject: Brass rigging Hi Mark, I always use brass wire 0.006" for stays but finer 0.004" wire for haliards and finer rigging. For aerial wires I use 0.002" Dai Rikki which needs to be coloured by running a felt tip pen over it. This method provides a very stable rigging which can take a few 'knocks'. Now Jim Bauman would argue the case for stretched sprue and I agree.... with patience, it is quite fantastic, BUT very brittle. Just don't let the slightest breeze near it or you're in trouble! Roll your 0.004" wire with a steel ruler on a hard flat surface to straighten it. Hope this helps Regards, Chris He tao rakau e taea te karo, tena he tao kupa kaore e taea te karo......(Te Reo Maori) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: "Peter Hall" Subject: Re: Onslow gun footplate colour Shane Wrote >> Am about to add the PE footplate replacment on the Onslow. Which colour should it be: Semtex(Dk GreeN in this case) or 507B? Or is it in fact another colour?? Shane - about do batle with some PE Pom-poms << Hi Shane, As far as I can tell and what seems to make logical sense, is, that the footplates being like gratings, were a dull bare steel colour. If you use a steel or gunmetal paint and wait for it to dry well, then run in some thinners that have a drop of black mixed in, the pattern on the footplate should show up well. 'Good Luck',from the one who drew the original image. Peter. Thanks Peter & Caroline for the hints. Much appreciated. Shane - who is for the moment wining the battle with the pom-poms. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: "Caroline Carter" Subject: Re: Onslow footplate colour Hi Guys, Well, I don't know about anyone else but I would reckon on AP 507A, as this is a "trodden" area.. All The Best Caroline WEM (into my seventeenth hour of work today.. yawn!!!!) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: "Caroline Carter" Subject: Re: Most named US Navy Ship Hi Guys, Hmm.. this brings me to ask... what is the most-named British Navy ship, and how many times was she named.. I THINK it could be Warspite or Revenge, both go back to the Sixteenth Century but does anyone know for sure? Cheers! Caroline WEM Hi Caroline, Ummm, what about Exeter - that IIRC goes back a while as well. Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: "Timothy J. Barron" Subject: USS Cowpens (CG-63) >> I was hoping one of you insider/informed types who are on board SMML might know what is going on with the USS Cowpens, CG-63. She is currently "in the yards" down in San Diego and some MAJOR overhaul or conversion is going on, which according to one outside source has her "torn apart down to the bulkheads". After this completes, reportedly around June, she is scheduled to go to Japan and be "parked" there for some reason. COMNAVSURFPAC is understandably mum on the subject. << According to http://www.defenselink.mil:80/news/Dec1998/c12171998_ct642-98.html "Southwest Marine, Inc., San Diego, Calif., is being awarded an $8,719,494 firm-fixed-price with performance fee contract for the regular overhaul of USS COWPENS (CG 63). Work will be performed in San Diego, Calif., and is expected to be completed by December 1999. Contract funds in the amount of $6,727,991 will expire at the end of the current fiscal year. This contract was competitively procured through the Commerce Business Daily and via the internet, with two offers received. The Naval Sea Systems Command, Arlington, Va., is the contracting activity (N00024-92-H-8030)." \\\|/// \\ ~ ~ // ( @ @ ) ------- oOOo-(_)-oOOo--------------------------- Timothy J. Barron mailto:tjbarro@worldnet.att.net http://www.geocities.com/tjbarro -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: "Kevin Surjan" Subject: HMAS Perth Hello all, Regarding the HMAS Perth, I believe that there is an attempt to try and keep her as a museum ship to be housed at the new Maritime Centre to be built at Fremantle. The centre already has an ex Oberon Class submarine the HMAS Ovens, so hopefully the Perth can be saved used as a floating museum. Australia in the past has had a bad habit of either scrapping or sinking most of its ex-naval ships, so my personal opinion is if she can be saved it would have more benefit to the general public as a museum ship than as a dive wreck. That's my two cents worth. Regards, Kevin Surjan Perth, Western Australia -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: "John Snyder" Subject: Recommended Reading For anyone who hasn't seen it, the October 1999 issue of National Geographis has an article titled "Last Dive of I-52", well-photographed, regarding dives on the sub which was sunk in the Atlantic in 1944 on transit to Germany. Good reading, and photo subject matter for a potential diorama. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: "Steven P. Allen" Subject: Ticos On the Ticonderogas: While I cannot say in this particular instance, the Ticos are subject to severe hull stresses--they are seriously over-loaded, extra bow strakes notwithstanding--and at least one has already been efeectively put out of commission by a nearly broken-off stern. The early Ticos are expected to go out of commission formally before too much longer. Steve Allen -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: "Pletscher-Lenz-Schneider" Subject: Ship name prefixes >> So I suppose based on your above comments that KMS is also not a proper prefix. Damm, now I'll have to amend my shiplist :-(. Also: Italy - R.N Japan - IJN << Hi Shane You are right. KMS is not a prefix, but the abbrevation of Kriegsmarine ship. Also IJN stands for Imperial Japanese Navy and is not a prefix. R.N for Italian ships is something new for me. If you should mean R.M., it would be the abbrevation for Regia Marina. But it also could stand for "Regia Nave". Then it would mean Royal Ship and could be a prefix (Today's Italian warships caary the word "Nave" = ship before their name). But from my (limited) knowledge of Italian grammer, royal ship would rather spell nave regia, than regia nave. Falk Hi Falk, Well R.N wasn't a typo, in case you were wondering. That seems to be the normal prefix used by the Italian Navy. Your translation would also make sense as well. Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: "Katz, Gene S" Subject: Re: Ticonderoga Class CG FRAMs? Hi, As an active participant in the CG47 and DDG51 Classes with the Combat System Engineering Agent, may I respectfully suggest this discussion be dropped from the list, on advice of counsel. Let's switch topics, these waters could get too deep. If your local PIO can't supply your details, there is a reason. Thanks, Gene Katz -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: Felix Bustelo Subject: Pennant Numbers on Subs Hello all, I am working on a 1/400 scale U class RN sub (while working on a couple other projects concurrently) mainly to be a guinea pig on weathering techniques before I try my hand on a real project. The kit is a Polish made one of the ORP Dzik, which has decals for the Sokol (ex HMS Urchin). Not the greatest kit by any stretch of the imagination, but a quick build and cheap, so if I mess it up, I won't cry if it goes into the trash. Anyhow, I digress... The kit comes with very large pennant numbers for the conning tower, as well as the subs name and the flags. I have seen photos of the Sokol, undated, showing her with the pennant number and with out, but the name on each side of the conning tower towards the front. The latter shows her with crew members and the Jolly Roger, which was raised after a kill, so it had to be a wartime photo. My question is would these subs have the pennant numbers during wartime? They are very large and I think that they would be akin to painting a target on each side but I would like to hear from the collective experts in this group before I proceed with my guess. TIA Felix Bustelo -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Caroline Carter" Subject: U.K. IPMS NATIONALS Hi Guys Just to let any SMMLlie know, who is umming and ahhing about coming to the IPMS National Championships, that John Lambert will be visiting the WEM stand to talk about his new book on Flower Class Corvettes, his naval career, Winston Silcott (dare you ask?)... you know the sort of thing... he's coming early on Saturday and will be gracing us with his ebullient presence for at least some of that time. (He will be sporting a SMMLlie badge with his name on it so should be an easy one to spot .. the badge is courtesy of Rober Lockie!). Actually, Robert will be at the Nationals and I am sure he could be persuaded into issuing interested SMMLlies with a personalised ID.. how's about it Robert? I think Robert's running either one of the SIG stands, or a club stand and will let us all know where we can find hm if he agrees re the badge thing. I think it'll be nice to find out who we are... All SMMLlies MUST report to the WEM stand as I would like to take all of your pictures please!! Best Regards Caroline WHITE ENSIGN MODELS Probably my last post before the Nationals (these 18 hour days are killing me!!) and hope to see a bunch of you at the weekend. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for having SMML at your home, why not stop by our home at: http://www.smml.org.uk -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume