Subject SMML27/10/99VOL711 Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 00:50:22 +1000 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Titanic bits 2: What happend to MSB magazine 3: Re: 2: Anchor & anchor chain colours. 4: IPMS NATIONALS from a trader's perspective 5: Thanks.... 6: Paper ship models 7: New Paints 8: IPMS(UK) Nationals 9: Re: Ticonderoga Photography 10: Re: Marine Models 11: Masking tape 12: Re: Model Expo RN Paints 13: Tie Downs 14: BOGUS HILARY 15: A Soldier's Christmas 16: Re: On card models 17: Re: APD jungle camoflage 18: Cleveland cl Models 19: 12 Gun Baltimore 20: Paper Models 21: Lindberg Clevelands 22: Angled Essexs 23: Lindberg Angled Essexs -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: PT Dockyard October Releases -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Satin, Michael N. (SHEP)" Subject: Titanic bits >> Minicraft surprised me, and a number of others, with there conversion sets for the 350th Titanic. These sets, with Huge PE sheets allow either the Britannic of Olympic to be built. The Britannic sheet has a total of 56 SQ inches of Brass sheet, with a separate resin kit, providing Lifeboats I guess. The chief model maker for the titanic Movie designed the masters, even Caroline seemed impressed! Oh costs, well the Brass is going to be approx $30 per sheet and the associated Resin bits, around the same. << Colin, Any idea where or when these might be available to the general public in the US? I have the GMM set which is very nice but any resin conversion parts to fix some of the inaccuracies might be nice to have, if any of them do this. Sounds like a great show, thanks for the report! Michael -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: Kurt Van Dahm Subject: What happend to MSB magazine Fritz Koopman asked what happened to MSB magazine and why did it happen so fast. MSB magazine had been for sale for some time without any takers. Jeff Phillips left the magazine just prior to its sale and is now working as the Compliance Officer for the Wisconsin Lake Schooner Education Assoc. in their building of a full size Great Lakes schooner in Milwaukee. I don't believe that the magazine was able to function with Jeff gone. After Jeff left, the value of the magazine certainly went way down. The owner of MSB sold the magazine part of Phoenix Publications to Seaways Publishing as explained in the SIS magazine. Clay Feldman, publisher of SIS has made a very fair deal for the former subscribers of MSB by giving them an issue for issue subscription to SIS and for those of us who subscribed to both, he has extended our SIS subscriptions for the same number of issues. Don't feel annimosity towards SIS magazine over this situation as without the purchase by SIS you would have been without your MSB magazine and would never have received any refund for the remaining issues of your subscription. Also, with the increased readership for SIS we may hopefully see more pages or possibly monthly publication in the future. I liked both magazines, but you have to admit that the printing and photographic quality of MSB had been going downhill for awhile. The average printing and photographic quality of SIS is far superior to anything MSB had ever put out. This is completely opposite the treatment given to longtime subscribers of Model Shipwright magazine. This magazine was taken over by another company and the former subscribers who are still owed three issues on their subscriptions (quarterly publication) were just told that we could pay for another subscription (of four issues)and then we would receive our three missing issues and one more issue! So in reality we would be paying for 7 issues and getting 4! Such a deal. I had a complete collection of 106 issues and told them to take a hike. I guess that's the difference between a US company (Seaways) and a British company. Take care, Kurt Van Dahm Westmont, IL -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "Caroline Carter" Subject: Re: 2: Anchor & anchor chain colours. Shane... TOILETS have chains, ships have CABLES!! OK re painting these items, the anchor is the same colour generally as the bit of hull that surrounds it. There are no hard and fast rules, but in WW2, grey, black.... sometimes, alternating colours of the links! Cables are/were often painted white for smartness (if it moves, paint it white!). Cheers! Caroline White Ensign Models Thanks Caroline. Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: "Caroline Carter" Subject: IPMS NATIONALS from a trader's perspective Well, Guys and Gals, We're now leaping back into action after the weekend's events. What a superb show! Definitely the best and most profitable IPMS show ever for ourselves... read also the most exhausting! The names of the large numbers of SMMLlies we met are now forever digitised, along with their mugs.. look out for a future web post! SMMLlies from France, the U.S.A., Finland, Belgium, Germany, Switzerland, Norway, Greece, Portugal, Italy, the U.K.(of course!), Canada... etc.!! Absolutely fantastic, meeting you all. Thanks for coming along and I hope you all enjoyed yourselves. Some pix were taken on the proviso that said person promised to subscribe, so welcome to the new recruits! I KNOW that I must have missed a few of you.. sorry about that chaps. Just remind me next year! Many of these visitors won't be returning home for several days, so hopefully we can look forward to a whole series of posts from these chaps visits over the next week or two. For many folks, this was their first visit to our show. Some seemed quite shell-shocked, as it was, in many cases, usually combined with a first-ever trip to our Sceptred Isle. According to El Presidente, Rob Sullivan, numbers were up around a thousand on last year. I guess some of you enjoyed the British Aerospace museum at Cosford, others the World Heritage Centre that is Ironbridge, but we ALL enjoyed the models.. and, gee, was there some awesome work out there!! The club and SIG stands seemed to carry far more ship models than I ever remember. I think that the Cruiser SIG was glad to see people supprting them so well this year. As Colin mentioned, this was the first outing for the WEM 1/350 HMS Mary Roses (having packed them Friday morning and not got the props for them until the Saturday morning, we got them on the shelves by opening time!). We also had a lot of interest shown in Peter Hall's 1/350 Kirov, which looked absolutely magnificent. One of Saturday's highlights was meeting John Lambert again. He spent a while on the WEM stands and it was good to see him. We were, of course, promoting both his Flower Class Corvettes book, available next month, and Alan Raven's RN Camouflage Part One (a copy of the cover on this tome arrived on Friday, just as we were getting ready to leave.. JUST in time!) Yiannis Sagiadinos, a SMMLlie from Greece, was the only bod allowed access "under the covers" of our display pieces, as well as Peter Hall's and Jim Baumann's entries, and was taking photos for the NAVIS website. His 1/700 Nelson Class battleship with the WEM brass onboard, was absolutely stunning. Jim Baumann's diorama of the WSW Svent Istvan turning turtle, together with some 500 crew figures falling/running, or swimming away from the ship was a reasonably deserved diorama winner, but there was seriously stiff competition from Peter Hall and others in this department.. his Dragons Mouth diorama was brilliant. Still, that judge's decision HAS to be made! Graham Walker was busier than I have ever known him, and had some seriously difficult judging to do.. I really didn't fancy his job, and I think that, with the world IPMS Championships next year, and the show being 50% bigger than this year, he will need some international help on the judging.... Shane maybe?? One aspect that I found disturbing... despite notices posted on and around Jim Baumann's models, not to remove the covers (when you see around 5 miles of spider's web thin stretched sprue on each of his models, you can understand..), someone (maybe the "official" IPMS photographer, or the press?) removed and replaced the cover, demolishing about a week's worth of rigging on one of his models. He was livid. I just hope that JB shows up again next year. Anyhow, Peter, Tim, Robert, Randy, and hopefully others who were there, will start posting their reports on the rest of the show shortly. BTW, thanks for the definitive answer re the most-named ship... HMS Swallow it is then.. fascinating stuff! Re the colour chips, I think that the S+S chips will continue to do well for them, as more folks hear about them. They need to get these chips into Japan and Germany for starters! I think that IF they were in a position to market a range of paints themsellves, they would do well. No surprises that when the big guys, such as Floquil, start to try to cater for the ship modeller, their sales are disappointing.. an interesting snippet I got from Accurate armour.. they expect to sell maybe between 400 and 2,000 of a new subject. We at WEM expect to sell between 30 and 200 of a new naval subject..... Incidentally, a couple of chaps from an Italian hobby shop bought a set of chips off us last weekend, and, from my limited understanding of Italian, they are also planning a range of paints based on those chips... however, I know of no small scale paint manufacturer in Italy that I am able to name. The only good news from the plastic kit manufacturers on ships, was, as Shane correctly surmised, that Airfix are re-releasing the Queen Elizabeth (the liner kit, of course, rather than a battleship kit!) Trevor Snowden of Airfix has said that this is the ONLY ship kit they will release next year. Ah well, beggars can't be choosers! All The Best Caroline Carter White Ensign Models http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/white.ensign.models/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: Felix Bustelo Subject: Thanks.... Hello SMMLers, Thanks to all of you who responded to my sub pennant number question. After reading that some did and some did not and some did at one time and not at another time I decided to use the pennant number on my little ole' kit. Besides, it would like rather boring with out it anyhow, so I am possible throwing historical accuracy to the wind ;-> Also, I wish to pass on thanks to those who responded to the Marine Model "Slaver" kit question that came my way from Lisa Ledgerwood. She appreciated the responses. Regards, Felix Bustelo -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: "David Hathaway" Subject: Paper ship models Look back though the SMML articles - there has been several refernces to paper model ships before. I have made both the Digital Navy free ships. They make up into nice models and should be do-able by a reasonably skilled amateur. They are not the best available. There are a couple of mail order houses with on-line catalogues. I don't have the catalogue URL's to hand at this account, but Card Modeling FAQ: http://er4www.eng.ohio-state.edu/~browns/card-faq/ This is the URL to a FAQ on Card modelling, maintained by a group on the web. There is a section on where you can get models, it has a reference to 1) PMI, who are a mail order house in the US. No online catalogue, but you can get a paper catalogue. 2) Scheuer and Streuver in Germany. They have an on-line catalogue and the English version if not there will be there soon. There is also a pointer to the Digital Navy site. Subjects available in card at 1:250 range from tiny torpedo boats 10cm long up to the USS enterprise (about 5 feet long). There is a good representation of civil ships and everything from mediaeval boats up to modern stealth warships. Best makes by far are HMV (Hamburger Modellbau Verlag), DSM (Deutsches Schifffahrt Museum), Passat and CFM, then look for Wilhelmshaven, Schreiber and GPM. Also rans include JSC and a couple of other Polish firms. Digital Navy ships are around the Wilhelmshaven/Schreiber level. An indication of this is the number of parts in the equivalent Wilhelmshaven and CFM ships. The CFM Cruiser Emden has 1,000 parts, the Wilhelmshaven Emden about 600 and an equivelent size Digital Navy Russian WWI cruiser has about 300. The Digital Navy models are reliant on a very good printer and a reasonable amount of touching-up if you don't want white edges and backs of pieces everywhere. That said they are a good starting point/intro to card modelling. Give it a go. The only cost is your time. David -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: "John Rule" Subject: New Paints I too echo Mike Settle's posting regarding model paints and welcome any good new paints which may be based on the Snyder & Short paint chips. I will still purchase future S & S paint chip releases and will continue to recommend them to anyone who talks to me about naval colours. John Rule -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: "Peter Hall" Subject: IPMS(UK) Nationals Hi Folks, Over the next few days Caroline and I are going to be getting together a selection of pictures of the ship model competition entries and some interesting subjects on some of the club stands, and putting them on a site so that all can view at their leisure. I will write up an explanation of the pictures and post it on SMML once the site is up and running. I hope that the series of shots I took of the Somali come out ( It was so big that I could not get it in one shot) so that I can reassemble it, for you all to see. All the best Peter Hall -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: SeaPhoto@aol.com Subject: Re: Ticonderoga Photography Hi Folks, Reading this thread for the past few days,I would like to offer some suggestions when trying to photograph a Navy ship during a Port Visit. Most times you will get at least a Main deck tour, and be able to photograph anything out in the open. However, it never hurts to: 1. Call or visit before you intend to take pictures if that is important to you. Ask for the Public Affairs Officer, or the Officer of the Deck, and politely (and succinctly) explain who you are, what and why you want to photograph. Be sure to write down the names of the person you spoke with for later reference. 2. If you cannot make prior arrangements, take a small pocket album with a few photos of your models with you. These make a great icebreaker, and show why you need the photos. Ask for the ODD,and ask that person if you can take photos for modeling purposes. If not, ask if someone can accompany you and take the pictures for you, so nothing sensitive will be photographed - this worked for me on the USS Chicago when she had a sensor exposed that she did not want photographed. If they say that it will cause a problem with other folks wishing to take pictures, offer to come back at a better time, either before or after general visiting. 3. If you are making a model of a particular ship, write to the PAO ahead of time, and ask if they will be in your area (assuming you don't live in Utah ). Establishing a relationship with the PAO ahead of time can be very useful, and helped me a lot when I was researching the John Paul Jones - I was even invited out on a Tiger Cruise (an outing with the families of the crew, lasting from 1 day to more), which was great. Eventually, she came to San Francisco, and I was able to visit her again there. 4. I have had good luck arraging visits at Naval Bases - some of my best shots have been touring ships when they are between deployments. Often I have had fairly free run of the ship, with an escort of course. 5. A little politeness goes a long way - after all, you are touring the crew's home. I have found that "please" "thank you" and "sir" have opened doors that demanding would have shut. I hope some of these tips willprove useful in the future to you. Kurt Kurt Greiner SeaPhoto Maritime Photography -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: Lamar Jones Subject: Re: Marine Models Marine Models was located at Halesite, Long Island, and for a good many years turned out wooden hull models, primarily of sailing vessels, but a few naval vessels were produced. I carried during my navy days a model of a Gearing Class destroyer they produced and for whatever reasons gave it to my chief quartermaster when I left service in the middle fifties. As I recall the hull was quite accurate, the turrets were castings, and of course there was a box full of wood that had to be cut and fitted. But all in all the kit was quite accurate and it would have, indeed it may have, produced a quite decent model. I think the former firm of North River models bought Marine Models inventory, but I could be off base on that. I still have a drawer or two full of their fittings which I acquired years ago from a hobby ship that was in process of liquidation, but they're pretty crude castings by today's standards. Lamar Jones -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: "Alan Salas" Subject: Masking tape Hello All What kinds of masking tape would be good to use when they need to cover existing paint surfaces? I would assume that there is more than one. I've used the blue painter's tape with mixed results. Allan -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: "Tim Perry" Subject: Re: Model Expo RN Paints Rob, I suggest you charge $1.79 a bottle, and send the extra 10 cents you collect to Messrs Snyder and Short.... Tim ( Sorry I couldn't make the IPMS Nats after all, LCI in my pocket notwithstandinding...) Perry -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: "Tom & Carolyn Harrison" Subject: Tie Downs We are looking for information on the size of the tie downs used on modern US Carriers. Need Diameter of the hole and thickness of cross brace. Thanks in advance for your help Tom -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: Dave Baker Subject: BOGUS HILARY The photo of the "HAN YANG" that appeared for decades in Jane's Fighting Ships was actually of the HILARY P. JONES early in her USN career. Early units of the BENSON and LIVERMORE classes received the originally-planned five 5-in 38-caliber single gunmounts, usually with the two after mounts on the 01 level in open mountings. If I recall the photo correctly (my books are still in storage), the JONES had the uncommon open-topped gunhouse for those after mounts; canvas over pipe frames made these mounts appear to be completely plated. JANE'S alas, over its long career, has altogether too often misrepresented photos, which is one of many reasons why COMBAT FLEETS was started and why it is generally acknowledged as the superior reference book on modern navies. And it's a LOT cheaper. Cheers/Dave -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: Joe Costanzo Subject: A Soldier's Christmas I came across this poem on the net, I thought some of you might appreciate it, even though it's not ship related 'TWAS THE NIGHT BEFORE CHRISTMAS, HE LIVED ALL ALONE, IN A ONE BEDROOM HOUSE MADE OF PLASTER AND STONE. I HAD COME DOWN THE CHIMNEY WITH PRESENTS TO GIVE, AND TO SEE JUST WHO IN THIS HOME DID LIVE. I LOOKED ALL ABOUT, A STRANGE SIGHT I DID SEE, NO TINSEL, NO PRESENTS, NOT EVEN A TREE. NO STOCKING BY MANTLE, JUST BOOTS FILLED WITH SAND, ON THE WALL HUNG PICTURES OF FAR DISTANT LANDS. WITH MEDALS AND BADGES, AWARDS OF ALL KINDS, A SOBER THOUGHT CAME THROUGH MY MIND. FOR THIS HOUSE WAS DIFFERENT, IT WAS DARK AND DREARY, I FOUND THE HOME OF A SOLDIER, ONCE I COULD SEE CLEARLY. THE SOLDIER LAY SLEEPING, SILENT, ALONE, CURLED UP ON THE FLOOR IN THIS ONE BEDROOM HOME. THE FACE WAS SO GENTLE, THE ROOM IN SUCH DISORDER, NOT HOW I PICTURED A UNITED STATES SOLDIER. WAS THIS THE HERO OF WHOM I'D JUST READ? CURLED UP ON A PONCHO, THE FLOOR FOR A BED? I REALIZED THE FAMILIES THAT I SAW THIS NIGHT, OWED THEIR LIVES TO THESE SOLDIERS WHO WERE WILLING TO FIGHT. SOON ROUND THE WORLD, THE CHILDREN WOULD PLAY, AND GROWNUPS WOULD CELEBRATE A BRIGHT CHRISTMAS DAY. THEY ALL ENJOYED FREEDOM EACH MONTH OF THE YEAR, BECAUSE OF THE SOLDIERS, LIKE THE ONE LYING HERE. I COULDN'T HELP WONDER HOW MANY LAY ALONE, ON A COLD CHRISTMAS EVE IN A LAND FAR FROM HOME. THE VERY THOUGHT BROUGHT A TEAR TO MY EYE, I DROPPED TO MY KNEES AND STARTED TO CRY. THE SOLDIER AWAKENED AND I HEARD A ROUGH VOICE, "SANTA DON'T CRY, THIS LIFE IS MY CHOICE; I FIGHT FOR FREEDOM, I DON'T ASK FOR MORE, MY LIFE IS MY GOD, MY COUNTRY, MY CORPS." THE SOLDIER ROLLED OVER AND DRIFTED TO SLEEP, I COULDN'T CONTROL IT, I CONTINUED TO WEEP. I KEPT WATCH FOR HOURS, SO SILENT AND STILL AND WE BOTH SHIVERED FROM THE COLD NIGHT'S CHILL. I DIDN'T WANT TO LEAVE ON THAT COLD, DARK, NIGHT, THIS GUARDIAN OF HONOR SO WILLING TO FIGHT. THEN THE SOLDIER ROLLED OVER, WITH A VOICE SOFT AND PURE, WHISPERED, "CARRY ON SANTA, IT'S CHRISTMAS DAY, ALL IS SECURE." ONE LOOK AT MY WATCH, AND I KNEW HE WAS RIGHT. "MERRY CHRISTMAS MY FRIEND, AND TO ALL A GOOD NIGHT." This poem was written by a Marine stationed in Okinawa Japan. The following is his request. I think it is reasonable..... PLEASE. Would you do me the kind favor of sending this to as many people as you can? Christmas will be coming soon and some credit is due to our U.S. service men and women for our being able to celebrate these festivities. Let's try in this small way to pay a tiny bit of what we owe. Make people stop and think of our heroes, living and dead, who sacrificed themselves for us. Please, do your small part to plant this small seed. DaveW -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: cwjerden Subject: Re: On card models I read with interest about card modeling. Looks like fun, but would have to get in line with all the rest of my projects. That's a long line! I found this ship kit on the web a while back. It is a 7ft card model of a cargo ship,the SD14. http://www.bogo.co.uk/marcle/sd14.htm The company is Marcel Models of Amersham, Bucks, England. I would love to do this kit, If I could afford it, but my house is too small for a 7ft love seat. I don't think my wife would let me try and fit a model that size in here! Has anyone ever used the pattern of a paper model to build up a ship in plastic stock? I have toyed with the concept as several ships I would like to build are only avilable in card. Just a thought. Good Night, Charles J. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: "John Snyder" Subject: Re: APD jungle camoflage >> (1) Bruce Franklin's book, "The Buckley Class Destroyer Escorts" (p.52) shows a reproduction of a design sketch of Meas. 31/20L for the port side of an APD. Fife (!) colors for the vertical surfaces are indicated by different shades of grey or crosshatches. They are designated: GREEN1, GREEN2, GREEN3, BROWN, and DULL BLACK on the sketch. DECK GREEN is also listed, but horizontal surfaces are not visible in the sketch. Juxtaposed to the sketch is a black and white photograph dated Sep.15, 1944 of the "Lloyd" sporting Meas. 31/20L. The shapes of Lloyd's spotches duplicate the design sketch almost perfectly. Moreover, splotches of the same color in the sketch yield the same shade of grey on the photograph. Now here comes the catch: The splotches designed to be BROWN appear on the photo in exactly the same shade of grey as the GREEN2 splotches. So far other b/w photos of "Lloyd" or her sisters do not solve this three way dilemma either: SNIP option 3: AS DESIGNED; both GREEN2 and BROWN just happen to look the same on b/w photos? << I think this is what we're dealing with here. If you have our USN Set 2, #2 Green and #4 Brown are pretty close tonally. There are 2 very clear reproductions of photos of LLOYD in Tom Walkowiak's _Destroyer Escorts of World War 2_, and that's the way it looks to me. The two photos are printed differently, and give quite a different appearance, particularly with regard to the darkest shade used, giving the appearance of Navy Green in one photo and Dull Black in the other. While there were earlier greens and browns (1942-43), most of the APDs were painted up in the MS31 greens in 1944 for the Philippine campaign, which would put them in the #1 Green, #2 Green, #3 Green, #4 Brown >> Maybe, the design sketch is misleading. After all the assignment of colors might have been just a preliminary suggestion. This leaves breathing space for color combinations championed by other sources: (2) John Snyder posted: Four colors: GREEN1, GREEN2, GREEN3, and BROWN, no black. (3) The color rendering of a Crosley APD in "Destroyer Escorts in action" (Warships number 11, squadron/signal publications) suggests four colors: a slightly greenish tan, a grassy green, an olive green, and very dark green. << Those are, respectively, #4 Brown, #1 Green, #2 Green, and #3 Green, as subjected to artistic license and reproduction in inks. >> (4) The color rendering of a Crosley APD in "Destroyer Escorts of World War Two" (Warship's data special, Floating drydock) is very similar to (3). Here the lightest color is a tannish green; the darkest could be black. The 4 colors might represent GREEN1,-2,-3 and DULL BLACK. Definitively none of the 4 colors is a brown. (5) The instructions for the Iron Shipwright 1/300 kit of the "Lloyd" state measure 31/20's colors are: 5-HG HAZE GREEN, 5-OG OCEAN GREEN, 5-NG NAVY GREEN, and DULL BLACK. These must be the revised greens introduced in 1943. A look at Snyder & Short's color swatches convinced me that GREEN1,-2,-3 and 5-HG,-OG,-NG respectively are very close matches to each other. For modelling purposes the two sets of colors are interchangeable. << Works for me. >> While color schemes (1, option1),(3),(4), and (5) might be identical, they are at odds with the others which are in turn incompatibel with each other. The question remains: What are the colors of Meas. 31/20L as implemented? 4 or 5 colors? BROWN included/excluded? << Well, as far as LLOYD is concerned, 3 greens and a brown. >> Someone out there with a color photo of an APD in Measure 31/20L? John, could you please elaborate on the source for your interpretation. As one of the maker of the respected color swatches you must have come pretty close to the real colors. << I believe the real answer here lies in the original camo pattern sheets, and waits for someone to do the research to ferret them out. Someone needs to get to the National Archives/Naval Historical Center. In addition, I suspect that, as with the Ms.12 (modified) of 1942, there was a great deal of free rein given/taken in the application of the green schemes to APDs. I, for one, want to know more about the use of the various iterations of greens and browns in 1942-43. >> I cannot believe I spent so much time to write all this. Am I a geek, or what? Do I need a life? << If you're a geek, then you have plenty of comrades. You have a life! It just happens to be wrapped up in the arcane hobby of WW2 ship modeling. Enjoy it! John Snyder Snyder and Short Enterprises The Paint Guys -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: Derek Wakefield Subject: Cleveland cl Models >> Funny you should mention the Lindberg Cleveland class cruiser, back in 1985 I did an article with that kit and the Revell reissue of the RENEWAL kit in Model Ship Builder #38 called the ninth day twin ships. It showed an early war version Lindberg and a late war version Revell. << Craig Yep, the Revell SPRINGFIELD is another one I wish I'd picked up, except I couldn't stop laughing hard enough (at the WWII Cleveland with two terrier missile launchers stuck on the back) to seriously consider picking it up. Hopefully Revell or Revell-Germany will reissue that odd-ball kit again one of these days. Dasvidanya! _|_o_|_ Derek "Tiger" (/\)akefield /---(.](o)[.)---\ iscandar2@chatter.com o oo O oo o http://www.iscandar-66.org -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: Derek Wakefield Subject: 12 Gun Baltimore >> I had the Manchester kit, and the really neat part of the box art, was that the artist painted a Baltimore class heavy cruiser and just added an extra turret aft. First time I ever saw a 12 gun Baltimore! ;-) << Duane After reading this I had to drag that pic out again. You're absolutely right...that is a 12 gun Baltimore! DOH! Dasvidanya! _|_o_|_ Derek "Tiger" (/\)akefield /---(.](o)[.)---\ iscandar2@chatter.com o oo O oo o http://www.iscandar-66.org -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: Derek Wakefield Subject: Paper Models >> I checked out the site on card modelling, and was astounded at the level of detail achievable with paper and cardboard. Some of the projects look enormously compliated (Arizona and Takao). These ships are available at a moster 1:250 scale and at only $25! << I'm still tempted to get the Arizona, but be careful and read the fine print regarding the price. For $25 you get a CD with the plans in PDF form that you have to supply both the color printer and card-stock to create. To get the actual model will put you back $50. Dasvidanya! _|_o_|_ Derek "Tiger" (/\)akefield /---(.](o)[.)---\ iscandar2@chatter.com o oo O oo o http://www.iscandar-66.org -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 21) From: Derek Wakefield Subject: Lindberg Clevelands >> The Lindberg CL shows up on eBay fairly often; one went for about $10 just a day or two ago. << Steve Yep...found a Columbia and Vicksburg there last night. However, I use an older Amiga computer. All the decent browsers require the use of a newer TCP program with a built in SSL module. AFAIK, they can't import the versions with built in SSL due to US patent law restrictions. And there ain't no such animal as an Amiga version of Netscape. So I can't do online orders or anything that requires going though a secure sign up form-posting. The only good thing I've found about that it is saves me from late night impulse buying on the web. Had I been able to, I probably would've put a bid on the Vicksburg kit. Dasvidanya! _|_o_|_ Derek "Tiger" (/\)akefield /---(.](o)[.)---\ iscandar2@chatter.com o oo O oo o http://www.iscandar-66.org -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 22) From: Derek Wakefield Subject: Angled Essexs >> Speaking of the Revell CV-12 Hornet, if anyone's got one on their disposal list, I'll buy it! (Wonder if they'll re-issue it?!) Also - have there been/are there other angled Essex kits besides the old Revell? So far I can only find axial decks. << Ken AFAIK, Revell issued three versions of the SCB-125 Essex kit as the Hornet, Wasp, and Lexington (with a VT Air Group in lieu of the VS Air Group). I've also heard they put out another one as the Shangri La, but I've never seen it. Our local Hobby Lobby had the Hornet kit several months back, but I didn't see the it last time I was there. Likewise, I saw the Lexington kit on EBay last night. JS Productions offered both a 1/700 Orskany for $135 and a 1/350 Intrepid for $975. I suspect those are going to be difficult to find anymore as they were reported to be popular kits when first introduced several years back. They had a review of the Oriskany kit in the July 97 FSM. The pic looked great, but the review mentioned a number of problems. Dasvidanya! _|_o_|_ Derek "Tiger" (/\)akefield /---(.](o)[.)---\ iscandar2@chatter.com o oo O oo o http://www.iscandar-66.org -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 23) From: Derek Wakefield Subject: Lindberg Angled Essexs >> Lindberg had an Angled-deck Essex in two scales; I don't remember it well enough to say anything but that it seems devoid of detail. << I had one of the small 1/888 Phillippine Sea kits as a teenager. It was pretty bad. I still remember the F4D Skyrays molded into the flight deck. I think they put it out as both the Philipine Sea and Valley Forge...neither of which ever received the SCB-125 refit. IOW, they were okay for pushing around the back yard, or perhaps for wargaming, but I wouldn't recommend it to anyone wanting something that could be made into anything that looked authentic. Yet, I have to admit I do feel a strange nostalgic attraction to those kits (which I'm sure will pass if I ever see one again). I know there was a larger version of the kit marketed as the Antietam around the same time I got my Cleveland-Manchester Kit. Yet again, another ship that never received the SBC-125 refit. Makes me wonder how Lindberg chose the names for these kits. Dasvidanya! _|_o_|_ Derek "Tiger" (/\)akefield /---(.](o)[.)---\ iscandar2@chatter.com o oo O oo o http://www.iscandar-66.org -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: d gregory Subject: PT Dockyard October Releases New boats from the PT Dockyard! 1/600 Resin Coastal WW2 Miniatures Soviet RU6 TK Class MGB MGB version of D3 MTB. $3.50 RU7 BMO Class Subchaser Patrol craft with 37mm $3.75 British GB10 BPB 60' MA/SB Coastal ASW boat used early war $3.00 GB12 Vosper 70' Gunboat 1943 Mediterranean mod w/five 20mm $3.75 Finnish FN4 RB 1-12 MTB 69' Higgens design. Sold instead to UK in1941$3.50 FN5 Sisu & Isku 1941 one each. of early MTBs used' 41-'42 $4.50 FN6 VMV as MTB 1941 Four modified 1941 with 2-18" torps $3.50 Italian IT6 MTM Explosive boat (4) $3.00 Romania RM2 Viscocul MTB 1941 70' Vosper built class of 3 $3.50 For complete list of over 50 1/600 WW2 coastal minitures, write to: mailto:gregorys7@juno.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for having SMML at your home, why not stop by our home at: http://www.smml.org.uk -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume